Tactics with Ion cell > Iron fist

[icegreentea]

I'm a long time player of Taugrim's Iron fist though I have tried just about all the specs listed on the forums. Close to full war hero with combat tech set. I took the suggestion of one of the posters here and have been playing full tactics with ion cell. 8/31/2

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801G0hZMsrrobfkdsZb.1

 

After playing for over a week now I find tactics with ion cell is simply better than the iron fist spec for those that want to do more damage while still being able to guard. First thing you will notice is that there are no points in ion cell. The reason behind this is quite simple. Ion cell has been bugged since beta where the first hit only does around 200 damage. Putting points in to ion cell to hit harder is simply a waste. The slow effect for 2 seconds is also very lack luster.

 

What you gain from going 31 points into the tactics tree is Fire Pulse. Fire Pulse hits hard and gives you a free stock strike. This ability makes the spec better at regenerating ammo than iron fist. The only way to regen ammo in iron fist is to shield an attack (requires you to equip a shield offhand). This is a very unreliable way to gain one ammo every 6 seconds from an attack due to your shield chance being very low. It also requires you being hit. Tech and force attacks which usually make up the bulk of the damage that you will be receiving can't be shielded. If you're using tank gear and a shield in pvp you're better off going as a full tank anyway. With Fire Pulse you're guaranteed a free stock strike every 15 seconds which is basically 2 free ammo. Ion Pulse will crit for 30% more damage and that is really the main ability for a vanguard. Ion Pulse also has a 30% chance to make your next stock strike free. Your aoe will be much stronger with 5 stacks. You will also get a 100% chance to crit with HIB upon proc.

 

Now of course people are going to say why not use HEC instead of Ion Cell for more ammo regen (Norse). That is fine if you want to go full dps. The spec here is simply a better tank spec with all of the utility of Iron Fist while doing more dps than Iron fist as well as better ammo regen. But, here is the best part. Say, you're in a warzone and you feel your team needs more dps. All you have to do is change the cell you're using. HEC will work great with this spec too. So you can change out in a warzone without having to respec. Can't do that with assault and iron fist. Say you need to defend a door or node then just switch your cell back to ion to be hard to kill.

 

The only thing you will lose out on is storm. While storm is a great ability most of the shield tree is just wasted points. The points in ion cell are wasted. All of the shield and absorption stuff should be skipped for pvp. This may change if ion cell is ever fixed but, as of right now if you want to play as a tank and still do decent dps you're better off with full tactics and ion cell.

Edited June 5, 2012 by icegreentea

[ATango]

I won't necessarily say that this spec is better but it's what you would use if you want to meet half way between IF and DPS builds. I tested this spec and it's nice. The only beef I have with it is the loss of a passive ammo regen from the use of HEC. Also lose out on mobility from storm and the associated roots from SS tree.

 

Still, good option to have.

Edited June 5, 2012 by ATango

[icegreentea]

I won't necessarily say that this spec is better but it's what you would use if you want to meet half way between IF and DPS builds. I tested this spec and it's nice. The only beef I have with it is the loss of a passive ammo regen from the use of HEC. Also lose out on mobility from storm and the associated roots from SS tree.

 

Still, good option to have.

 

I wouldn't say it's halfway between IF and DPS builds because IF only has ion shield as an extra defense ability which will give you 2% more. 2% from a 20,000 hp pool is merely 400 hps. The tactics tree on the other hand gives you a 20% damage reduction while stunned. If anything the two specs are equal in defense. You do lose out on the mobility from not having storm though. That's really the main lost. Wish they would of just make storm a given ability instead of having to spec into the shield tree to get it.

[ATango]

I wouldn't say it's halfway between IF and DPS builds because IF only has ion shield as an extra defense ability which will give you 2% more. 2% from a 20,000 hp pool is merely 400 hps. The tactics tree on the other hand gives you a 20% damage reduction while stunned. If anything the two specs are equal in defense. You do lose out on the mobility from not having storm though. That's really the main lost. Wish they would of just make storm a given ability instead of having to spec into the shield tree to get it.

 

I was referring to dps output though. More than IF build but less that pure tactics build. And making Storm a common VG ability would be nice but then SS tree will have nothing to look forward to.

[TheOpf]

Iron fist was never designed around being a dps ability. It's goal was control and gap closing. The key ability was jet charge with slows and it was designed around group play not solo. Ion Cell with any dps tree is such a significant dps loss it's worth is so below par I am not sure how bad to rank it. I refuse to acknowledge any ion cell build. I can do the same amount of protection and do twice the dps as a full Tactics and/or Full Assault build.

 

This discussion along with numerous parses and live data has been discussed on the PT forums for weeks. It continues to be shown that there is absolutely no reason to run Ion Cell with either dps tree unless you wish to gimp both yourself and your team. Your guard essentially is worthless because you do zero in help to your team. My ranked teams love seeing Ion Cell on VG AP guys because we love to completely ignore them while farm killing everyone else.

 

In essence, your dps is subpar, your heat is going to be tough to manage, and what do you gain a situational tool, and the inability to kill a target efficiently.

[masterbason]

I gave a shot to this build and I'm impressed.

 

The damage are really great, I must to say that is near to assalt using HEC, but of course that in assalt we can reset HiB and this is a big difference but in other hand fire pulse hits hard, ion pulse as well.

 

The advantages is switch to ion cell and HEC without losing much, just ajust the style, good def, good dmg( better than IF ), still usefull for the team.

 

Please, what are the rotation that you are using? For PvP of course.

Edited June 6, 2012 by masterbason

[icegreentea]

Wouldn't say ion cell is worthless. It's still good for hutt ball as well as defending nodes in certain situations. Plus with the spec listed you can switch in and out of it.

[Krayshawn]

High energy cell is far superior, for energy management, HUGE DPS improvement, and better mobility. I used to be a fan of changing sell on the fly, I no longer do this, changing to a tank stance is only viable on Juggernauts/ Guardians.

[icegreentea]

I gave a shot to this build and I'm impressed.

 

The damage are really great, I must to say that is near to assalt using HEC, but of course that in assalt we can reset HiB and this is a big difference but in other hand fire pulse hits hard, ion pulse as well.

 

The advantages is switch to ion cell and HEC without losing much, just ajust the style, good def, good dmg( better than IF ), still usefull for the team.

 

Please, what are the rotation that you are using? For PvP of course.

 

My priority goes:

 

1. Pulse Cannon with 5 stacks

2. Fire Pulse

3. Stock strike (free)

4. HIB (if proc)

5. Gut

6. Stock Strike

7. Ion Pulse

 

Typical opener for me:

 

Sticky grenade while running in -> Fire Pulse ->Stock Strike -> Gut -> HIB -> Ion Pulse (till 5 staks) - Pulse Cannon.

 

I prefer to use HIB unlike those that prefer the Norse build. Reasons are it's 30 meters and it's guaranteed to crit with proc. Don't worry too much about using HIB without the proc. This spec isn't like the DPS build where you can just spam out pulse cannon every 12 seconds. Plus I rarely if ever get a warzone where I can use PC every 12 seconds because either people near me die/move or I die. I also rather have HIB with a proc for guaranteed hit then a PC that can be stunned/knocked back or even miss by people easily running out of it's range due to no slow effect. The gut slow is not very good but, it's better than nothing when trying to set up a PC. Nothing worst then having 5 stacks and hitting nothing but air.

 

People who prefer NORSE builds say NORSE is much easier since it one less ability you have to worry about in your rotation. That's fine but, I already find Vanguards one of the easiest classes to play as it is. I mean the rotation I have up there only requires 6 abilities. If you need to shorten that down to 5 abilities to play well then you really need to work on your game mechanics. Even if you add in all of the other abilities Vanguard needs to bind it's no where near what I use for my Sentinel.

Edited June 7, 2012 by icegreentea

[Theagg]

High energy cell is far superior, for energy management, HUGE DPS improvement, and better mobility. I used to be a fan of changing sell on the fly, I no longer do this, changing to a tank stance is only viable on Juggernauts/ Guardians.

 

I haven't yet made my mind up on using ion cell vs high energy cell in this respect.(with Tactics) High energy cell grants more damage for sure but its only 5% (which is not that much to be honest, 50 extra points in every 1000 dished out is meagre) and yes it does give ammo regeneration and technically better energy managment as a result.

 

But survivavbility drops markedly (losing the armour buff ion cell gives), so whilst the two above bonuses from HEC may theorectically increases DPS in the Tactics build, I die a lot faster so don't live long enough to make this count. With IC running, I live longer and therefore overall seem to do more damage.

 

So not fully commited to one or the other yet

[icegreentea]

I haven't yet made my mind up on using ion cell vs high energy cell in this respect.(with Tactics) High energy cell grants more damage for sure but its only 5% (which is not that much to be honest, 50 extra points in every 1000 dished out is meagre) and yes it does give ammo regeneration and technically better energy managment as a result.

 

But survivavbility drops markedly (losing the armour buff ion cell gives), so whilst the two above bonuses from HEC may theorectically increases DPS in the Tactics build, I die a lot faster so don't live long enough to make this count. With IC running, I live longer and therefore overall seem to do more damage.

 

So not fully commited to one or the other yet

 

HEC gives 8% more due to a point in blaster augs. The one ammo regen every 6 seconds from cell generator is also a big increase to dps as it keeps your ammo up and can even help bring you back up if you spend too many ammo points while fighting.

 

I would say if you're the type that likes to switch between Ion Cell and HEC on a regular basis while in a warzone then take 2 points out of power armor and put it into cell generator.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801G0hZMsMrorfkdsZb.1

[TheOpf]

I haven't yet made my mind up on using ion cell vs high energy cell in this respect.(with Tactics) High energy cell grants more damage for sure but its only 5% (which is not that much to be honest, 50 extra points in every 1000 dished out is meagre) and yes it does give ammo regeneration and technically better energy managment as a result.

 

But survivavbility drops markedly (losing the armour buff ion cell gives), so whilst the two above bonuses from HEC may theorectically increases DPS in the Tactics build, I die a lot faster so don't live long enough to make this count. With IC running, I live longer and therefore overall seem to do more damage.

 

So not fully commited to one or the other yet

 

Please read my tactics guide, the amount of damage lost by not using HEC, but using an Ion Cell is at minimum 14 percent across the board and as high as 20 percent depending on your heat situation. Quit saying 10 percent is nothing since we would easily say a talent that buffs all your damage by 8 - 20 percent is a must have. It's absolutely ridiculous to grant yourself 2 extra seconds of life to do less damage, and kill fewer people. Your guard is not worth the sacrifice of damage that you are giving up. Use your taunts and burn people down it's better than your guard. With guard up i can break 100k prot with 200k damage, without guard I can do 400k damage and 75k prot. So tell me why are we trading 200k damage for 25k protection and saying it's worth it?

[icegreentea]

Please read my tactics guide, the amount of damage lost by not using HEC, but using an Ion Cell is at minimum 14 percent across the board and as high as 20 percent depending on your heat situation. Quit saying 10 percent is nothing since we would easily say a talent that buffs all your damage by 8 - 20 percent is a must have. It's absolutely ridiculous to grant yourself 2 extra seconds of life to do less damage, and kill fewer people. Your guard is not worth the sacrifice of damage that you are giving up. Use your taunts and burn people down it's better than your guard. With guard up i can break 100k prot with 200k damage, without guard I can do 400k damage and 75k prot. So tell me why are we trading 200k damage for 25k protection and saying it's worth it?

 

20% is not going to give you double the damage. I can get 400K+ with ion cell on. You're also forgetting about carrying the ball in hutt ball. If the best spec is the one that gives you the best dps then none of the tactics specs should even be bought up. Everyone should just play Assault as that is the spec that has the best damage and burst.

 

Personally, I find that being able to switch between tank and dps very helpful. There is a very well geared operative on my server that I can not beat one on one while using a dps spec if he gets the opener. I never lost to him when I dueled him with the Iron Fist spec post 1.2. I haven't tried with Ion cell and tactics yet.

Edited June 7, 2012 by icegreentea

[TheOpf]

20% is not going to give you double the damage. I can get 400K+ with ion cell on. You're also forgetting about carrying the ball in hutt ball. If the best spec is the one that gives you the best dps then none of the tactics specs should even be bought up. Everyone should just play Assault as that is the spec that has the best damage and burst.

 

Personally, I find that being able to switch between tank and dps very helpful. There is a very well geared operative on my server that I can not beat one on one while using a dps spec if he gets the opener. I never lost to him when I dueled him with the Iron Fist spec post 1.2. I haven't tried with Ion cell and tactics yet.

 

Your complete miss of the obvious is astounding. The difference for double the damage is because you don't have to use Rapid shots as often as you do with Ion Cell builds. Any dps class that lost to an Ion Cell dps class is a horrible player. In every reputable pvp guild I know, the Ion Cell Tactics guy is a running joke. It's called out Tacitcs Ion cell, ignore him, kill him last, our favorite is when he attacks our healer and we completely ignore him, and kill all the other people than turn around and kill him.

 

Assault is not the max damage class, as Tactics very easily keeps up with them. In team play Tactics shines much brighter. PC on a group of two to three who are trying to kill your healer is much more effective than the Assault guy 1v1ing someone. Assault is great at the 6k instant slam, but when it comes to protecting your healer, and putting serious pressure on their healers so your Sentinel and Assault guy can kill someone off the Tactics and Lethality guys are the kings of the mass damage.

 

If someone needs to be guarded we ask our tank Guardian whose multiple stuns outshine anything the Ion Cell guy can do or the nicely overpowered Shadow tank whose damage and self heals makes up for the guard damage he takes. I prefer my dps guys to actually do something constructive. The only way you make it to 400k as an Ion Cell guy is if you have an incredible pocket healer. At which point, the Full Tactics guy is going to break 600k . Your heat issues, lack of mobility, and serious lack of dps are significantly worse than what you would do in Assault or Tactics.

[Theagg]

HEC gives 8% more due to a point in blaster augs. The one ammo regen every 6 seconds from cell generator is also a big increase to dps as it keeps your ammo up and can even help bring you back up if you spend too many ammo points while fighting.

 

I would say if you're the type that likes to switch between Ion Cell and HEC on a regular basis while in a warzone then take 2 points out of power armor and put it into cell generator.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801G0hZMsMrorfkdsZb.1

 

Other way round I think Blaster Augs gives an extra 8% damage from Ion Cell (compared to only an extra 3% from High Energy Cell)

[Theagg]

Please read my tactics guide, the amount of damage lost by not using HEC, but using an Ion Cell is at minimum 14 percent across the board and as high as 20 percent depending on your heat situation. Quit saying 10 percent is nothing since we would easily say a talent that buffs all your damage by 8 - 20 percent is a must have. It's absolutely ridiculous to grant yourself 2 extra seconds of life to do less damage, and kill fewer people. Your guard is not worth the sacrifice of damage that you are giving up. Use your taunts and burn people down it's better than your guard. With guard up i can break 100k prot with 200k damage, without guard I can do 400k damage and 75k prot. So tell me why are we trading 200k damage for 25k protection and saying it's worth it?

 

I didn't say 10% was nothing, I said 5% Much like the increased damage of 5% on Backblast for my scoundrel hasn't really made a massively noticeable difference compared to pre 1.2 figures.

 

I would also contend that increasing armor by 60% is going to grant you a lot more than an extra 2 seconds of uptime (compared to not having that buff) in an arena where attack types that are mitigated by armor are prevelant.

 

Once I have run enough zones using the two cells to make a comparison I will know, however, in the meantime, I shall take a peek at your guide.

 

(and even using ion cell with tactics most of the time, I do tend to top, or come close to topping the chart most of the time, stil low level though, so I do not have Fire Pulse yet..leve 48)

[Theagg]

20% is not going to give you double the damage. I can get 400K+ with ion cell on. You're also forgetting about carrying the ball in hutt ball. If the best spec is the one that gives you the best dps then none of the tactics specs should even be bought up. Everyone should just play Assault as that is the spec that has the best damage and burst.

 

Personally, I find that being able to switch between tank and dps very helpful. There is a very well geared operative on my server that I can not beat one on one while using a dps spec if he gets the opener. I never lost to him when I dueled him with the Iron Fist spec post 1.2. I haven't tried with Ion cell and tactics yet.

 

Yep, Operatives are pretty much the only class that give me problems at the moment (using Tactics). I put this down to the multiple stuns/mezzes they can use in sucession and the positioning they can obtain and healing they can apply to themselves as a result of these whilst in combat. Compared to my one stun....that 8 second flash bang is far more handy than some people give it credit for..!

[icegreentea]

Your complete miss of the obvious is astounding. The difference for double the damage is because you don't have to use Rapid shots as often as you do with Ion Cell builds. Any dps class that lost to an Ion Cell dps class is a horrible player. In every reputable pvp guild I know, the Ion Cell Tactics guy is a running joke. It's called out Tacitcs Ion cell, ignore him, kill him last, our favorite is when he attacks our healer and we completely ignore him, and kill all the other people than turn around and kill him.

 

Assault is not the max damage class, as Tactics very easily keeps up with them. In team play Tactics shines much brighter. PC on a group of two to three who are trying to kill your healer is much more effective than the Assault guy 1v1ing someone. Assault is great at the 6k instant slam, but when it comes to protecting your healer, and putting serious pressure on their healers so your Sentinel and Assault guy can kill someone off the Tactics and Lethality guys are the kings of the mass damage.

 

If someone needs to be guarded we ask our tank Guardian whose multiple stuns outshine anything the Ion Cell guy can do or the nicely overpowered Shadow tank whose damage and self heals makes up for the guard damage he takes. I prefer my dps guys to actually do something constructive. The only way you make it to 400k as an Ion Cell guy is if you have an incredible pocket healer. At which point, the Full Tactics guy is going to break 600k . Your heat issues, lack of mobility, and serious lack of dps are significantly worse than what you would do in Assault or Tactics.

 

That's funny because I go straight for the other team's healers on my server in every warzone. I know most of the regulars by name. I can usually kill them solo given enough time. I would love to go against your team and have them ignore me while I sit there and hit and interrupt your healer. Unfortunately the players on my server rarely ignore me.

 

As for the 15% run speed I don't find not having it that big of a problem. I already can use hold the line every 22 seconds plus most classes will hit you with some type of slow or root. Most of all you have to be standing still when channeling PC.

 

I parse the damage for each of the four specs for 3 minutes. I don't have the pvp dummy only the pve dummy so that may effect my numbers a bit. I was wearing mostly war hero gear (combat set) giving me 1837 aim, 29.96% crit and 504.2% bonus damage. The only buff I was missing was the knight buff. I made sure that I had 5 stacks and started with PC when using a tactics spec. Here is what I got.

 

IF = 1050 avg

Tactics with Ion = 1110 avg

Norse = 1250 avg

Assault = 1410 avg (aim is 1788 with 7/3/31 spec) This would be more if I had the eliminator set.

 

If damage as you say is what's most important for vanguards then Assault should be the only spec you should ever run.

[evilxpoptart]

I agree I went 31 points into tactics/w ion cell moving from the IF build and havent looked back. Being able to dump high aoe damage is great when your gaurded target is being overwhelmed. As well as your single target burst damage is much higher then IF.

 

People say you lose mobility without storm. I would disagree hold the line gives me far more mobility overall then storm ever did.

 

I am not knocking on IF I used IF while leveling and for sometime after I hit 50.

 

Before the arguement actually comes to a close 1.3 needs to come live.

[Theagg]

20% is not going to give you double the damage. I can get 400K+ with ion cell on. You're also forgetting about carrying the ball in hutt ball. If the best spec is the one that gives you the best dps then none of the tactics specs should even be bought up. Everyone should just play Assault as that is the spec that has the best damage and burst.

 

Personally, I find that being able to switch between tank and dps very helpful. There is a very well geared operative on my server that I can not beat one on one while using a dps spec if he gets the opener. I never lost to him when I dueled him with the Iron Fist spec post 1.2. I haven't tried with Ion cell and tactics yet.

 

This would be correct. Using HEC over IC will not double your damage output. The diference is based on how often you get that extra cell back using Cell Regenerator (CR) and how much ammo a basic (non free) rotation would use.

 

CR gives back 1 cell every 6 seconds. That's once per four globals. With a basic rotation (made up of Stockstrike, Ion Pulse and Gut for example) in four globals you will use up a minimum of 8 ammo.

 

At that point with HEC loaded, you get back 1 ammo. Without HEC you don't. So you get back 1 ammo for a minimum of 8 used. This in no way will equate to a 100% increase in damage output over using Ion Cell. Effectively then, for every 8 GCD's (2 ammo gained) you get one extra attack that you would not get using HEC.

 

That equates to a 12.5% increases in damage over other cells.

[icegreentea]

This would be correct. Using HEC over IC will not double your damage output. The diference is based on how often you get that extra cell back using Cell Regenerator (CR) and how much ammo a basic (non free) rotation would use.

 

CR gives back 1 cell every 6 seconds. That's once per four globals. With a basic rotation (made up of Stockstrike, Ion Pulse and Gut for example) in four globals you will use up a minimum of 8 ammo.

 

At that point with HEC loaded, you get back 1 ammo. Without HEC you don't. So you get back 1 ammo for a minimum of 8 used. This in no way will equate to a 100% increase in damage output over using Ion Cell. Effectively then, for every 8 GCD's (2 ammo gained) you get one extra attack that you would not get using HEC.

 

That equates to a 12.5% increases in damage over other cells.

 

To be exact you get a 12.5% increase in damage over not having a cell equip. The other cells have a proc to do damage. Even though Ion's damage is very small it's still doing damage.

[Ossos]

First off, Armor Schmarmor....The vast amont of damage that you're going to take bypasses your armor, and the amount of damage you give up for that 60% boost makes it simply not worth it unless you're simply going tank.

 

As for Ion Cell, the DoT that Ion Cell applies has been BROKEN SINCE LAUNCH!! It currently does 75% LESS damage that it's supposed to...PERIOD. Does it do damage, yes! I that damage substantial in even the most minor amount? NO!

 

Ion Cell is going to do jack for you, if you use it you are nerfing your damage for an armor benefit that simply does not make up for the damage hit.

 

Finally, with your massive damage loss, chances are you beat on your skills even harder, draining your ammo to nothing in the first 15 seconds. How many of you have Ammo issues half way into your second kill?

Edited June 9, 2012 by Parali
rude

[Theagg]

First off, Armor Schmarmor....The vast amont of damage that you're going to take bypasses your armor, and the amount of damage you give up for that 60% boost makes it simply not worth it unless you're simply going tank.

 

As for Ion Cell, the DoT that Ion Cell applies has been BROKEN SINCE LAUNCH!! It currently does 75% LESS damage that it's supposed to...PERIOD. Does it do damage, yes! I that damage substantial in even the most minor amount? NO!

 

Ion Cell is going to do jack for you, if you use it you are nerfing your damage for an armor benefit that simply does not make up for the damage hit.

 

Finally, with your massive damage loss, chances are you beat on your skills even harder, draining your ammo to nothing in the first 15 seconds. How many of you have Ammo issues half way into your second kill?

 

 

Really ? Armor mitigates Kinetic and Energy damage (there are four types of damage in total, Kinetic, Energy, Internal and Elemental) So armour mitigates 50% of all damage types.

 

Now go take a look at this table and see just how many class abilities dish out kinetic and energy damge. Quite a lot in fact

 

http://utils.lmstudio.ru/swtor/class-damage-types.html

Edited June 9, 2012 by Parali
bad quote

[TheOpf]

To be exact you get a 12.5% increase in damage over not having a cell equip. The other cells have a proc to do damage. Even though Ion's damage is very small it's still doing damage.

 

Except you have to factor in that they are using rapid shots when no one else would. I have no desire to argue this anymore. The simple fact is no one in their right mind ever worries about an Ion cell PT right now. You don't do good damage, your death is just about as easy as a dps class, and your only redeeming grace is you get to guard someone. Thanks for that.

 

I will say it once more. It is a running joke in every good pvp guild I have ran with or been in. If you see Ion cell on a PT you laugh and say free kill over here. It's even better when you just kill their healer while they do enough damage to be healed through easily.

 

I am done with this discussion as you have no desire to hear facts. You are simply going to do what you do and scream at everyone else. 60 percent armor increase is not worth the damage lost.

[icegreentea]

Except you have to factor in that they are using rapid shots when no one else would. I have no desire to argue this anymore. The simple fact is no one in their right mind ever worries about an Ion cell PT right now. You don't do good damage, your death is just about as easy as a dps class, and your only redeeming grace is you get to guard someone. Thanks for that.

 

I will say it once more. It is a running joke in every good pvp guild I have ran with or been in. If you see Ion cell on a PT you laugh and say free kill over here. It's even better when you just kill their healer while they do enough damage to be healed through easily.

 

I am done with this discussion as you have no desire to hear facts. You are simply going to do what you do and scream at everyone else. 60 percent armor increase is not worth the damage lost.

 

You know maybe some people have had better experience and results playing with what they find to be the best fit for them. I'm wondering if you even ever tried these other specs and not just spent one day playing them or reading what other people post. The only one that seems to be screaming and raging is you. I have played and tried specs in all of the trees. In PVE 99% of the time I DPS for my raid. That is what I'm best at. Yet, I don't find using ion cell as being so terrible as to making me completely useless in a warzones like I find all these people screaming about in the forums. I don't have problems killing people. As for the facts, I already posted parses on the dps.

 

I won 17 out of 20 warzones yesterday just solo queing. I also tend to be the one scoring in huttball.