SWTOR: A New Hope?

[Asharic]

The point of this thread is 1. To vent and 2. to throw out some ideas. Rather than reduce this to a litany of why I think SWTOR could fail (and it's much too early to tell and I despise the naysayers anyway) I'd rather help address some problems I've seen and maybe offer some solutions. To that end:

 

When I first heard the rumor in December 2005 of a new Star Wars MMO, I was still reeling from the fallout of the SWG/NGE debacle, and with it, I had a new hope that there just might be a proper Star Wars Universe put to game after all. I followed it obsessively as a hobby, played in the Beta, posted on the forums and I even attended the Guild Leader Summit this year in Austin, TX hoping to be heard, but I was informed they were only interested in feedback on 1.2 and would not be hearing any further game related suggestions. From start to finish I saw pitfalls and gave what humble feedback to no avail. With that said, I offer my perspective for your input, suggestions, flaming and so on, in hope that maybe, just maybe someone from BW might actually deign to consider what is said here.

 

SWG for all it's failings, drama and mishandling by SOE, should not have lasted as long as it did, so why did it go nearly a decade? In my opinion, the community shared a love of Star Wars and were second to none, even the trolls. Next, I would attribute SWG's unusual stamina to the following, and may BW take heed:

 

The keyword in MMO is MASSIVE, hence, one of the things I loved about SWG were the sandbox open worlds. I could pick any random directions and just go. I was not limited by terrain or mazes and forced to take a certain path to my destination. I loved the freedom of that and it aided in my absorption into the game.

 

Housing is a must imo. I could spend hours 'martha stewarting' my own city, home, etc and essentially make my own theme park. It was a gathering place for RP, a warzone for open world PVP and the best of all, was my bragging rights to show off my in-game trophies, etc. Having a place to call my own that I could fully customize to my personal satisfaction made me feel I 'owned' it and was therefore truly a participant in the Galaxy. Man I miss my little dirt hovel on Tat.

 

Interactive furniture...sure it sounds like a small thing, but when I'm not killing or getting pwnd in PVP, I like to RP from time to time. As such, it's a little lame to have to stand, or sit sprawling on the floor when IC. Just a thought.

 

Space, JTL is hands down one of the best Space fighter sims ever put down imho. Not that Starfox wasn't fun, I mean my kids loved it, but guided flight is akin to a guided missile, no point but to hang on for the ride. When I think of flight, I think of freedom of movement, split S's, Immelmans, aileron rolls, etc.

 

ID's (aka Barbershop for you WoW-Kiddies ) I know this is low on BW's priority list, but really? I know I'm not alone when I say this, but SWTOR has easily made me into a hopeless Altoholic. To such an extent at one point I had 32 toons to which I finally scaled down to 8. I know excessive, but I like variety and to be able to change my look when I get bored of it and right now, the only way is to re-roll or to hide my ugly mug with a mask of some fashion.

 

The CTS can't come fast enough, but I fear my Main will be left stranded on a low-pop server as they may limit what servers I can CTS to. I'm presently on a heavy pop with all my alts, waiting for Big Daddy Jedi to make his arrival that may never come. I hope I'm wrong.

 

Lastly, and I know it's been mentioned, but 8 character slots with 16 possible AC combinations (not including spec trees) is limiting my creativity. I'm not asking for 16, but I could definitely use 10...just spitball'n here.

 

So as not to end things on a down-turn, I love the animations, the voice overs, the artwork and the music, incredibly well done BW, so I thank you. It is my desire that as a relative rookie to the MMO realm you can quickly learn, adapt and most importantly communicate with your players so that SWTOR will live up to the franchise's potential and make this into the truly one and only Star Wars MMO that SWG fans had hoped for all those years ago.

 

MTFBWY,

 

A'Sharic Zell

 

PS: Before you ask, No I did not read all 10 bajillion pages of forums, so if there are issues I pointed out already addressed, then by all means link it or go back under your bridge trolls.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Asharic

[Goretzu]

Yup, all of your suggestions there would help SWTOR.

 

And before someone says "this isn't SWG 2", it isn't about that, it's about taking the best of SWG and adding it to SWTOR (or indeed the best of any MMORPG - just SWG is IMO the most relevent, even more than WoW).

 

This is a perfect match in many ways because lots of SWTORs weaknesses were SWGs strengths and even more so because many of SWTORs strenghts were SWGs weaknesses.

 

I especially like the idea of what Bioware could do to a JTL type expansion, keep the more sandy features but perhaps add more polish and depth (and maybe story) to it.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Goretzu

[Asharic]

Yup, all of your suggestions there would help SWTOR.

 

And before someone says "this isn't SWG 2", it isn't about that, it's about taking the best of SWG and adding it to SWTOR (or indeed the best of any MMORPG - just SWG is IMO the most relevent, even more than WoW).

 

This is a perfect match in many ways because lots of SWTORs weaknesses were SWGs strengths and even more so because many of SWTORs strenghts were SWGs weaknesses.

 

I especially like the idea of what Bioware could do to a JTL type expansion, keep the more sandy features but perhaps add more polish and depth (and maybe story) to it.

 

Precise, succinct and much better said than my wall of text leading to my ideas. You're 100% correct that SWG's best features in spite of it's larger failings are what SWTOR could benefit from. Thanks for your input sir!

[jgelling]

Someone will have to explain this role-playing concept to an MMO noob. How can you role-play in this game? Run up to someone /wave and /dance? Then do you get to shoot each other?

[Asharic]

Someone will have to explain this role-playing concept to an MMO noob. How can you role-play in this game? Run up to someone /wave and /dance? Then do you get to shoot each other?

 

The following link may help you get started:

 

http://toroz.com.au/2011/12/swtor-roleplaying-an-introduction/

 

That is just one of many, but I wish you luck my friend!

 

MTFBWY,

 

Ash

[jgelling]

The following link may help you get started:

 

http://toroz.com.au/2011/12/swtor-roleplaying-an-introduction/

 

That is just one of many, but I wish you luck my friend!

 

MTFBWY,

 

Ash

 

According to that article SWTOR is vastly superior than SWG in every way - indeed larger and better than any virtual world ever, so how can you be asking for more than the best?

 

Anyhow, I see it's like PvP with emotes and without chairs or chat bubbles. I'm still not sure how role players manage, but it's nice to see everyone gets something out of the game.

Edited June 4, 2012 by jgelling

[Florial]

Great post and I couldn't agree more. If SWTOR had many of the things you describe, I would be hanging around a bit longer than I have. Although I didn't play SWG as long as many of you, many of the activities in SWG (and other sandboxy games) appealed to me.

 

One of the big problems as I'm playing my last character to 50 is the lack of an open world. I feel like a rat in a maze sometimes and miss the free roaming feel you could have in other games. Give me a landmass like the one in Asheron's Call for example or SWG. I'm an explorer at heart and perhaps someday, I will find my MMO that has those elements I really enjoyed.

[Talarchy]

Fantastic post, agree with absolutely everything. Although the chances of them implementing any of these suggestions are buckleys to none, we can all dream and hope that SWTOR one day becomes the game we hoped it was going to be. I just hope they don't finally get it right in the 8th year and the license is up

[Morsong]

I absolutely agree. I really want to pull up a quote that one of the devs said a while back..they said something along the lines of "these sorts of features will not be implemented (or at launch I believe) because TOR isn't a life-sim". What they fail to understand however is that this is suppose to be an MMO. I don't care if your main focus is story or whatnot, but if this is suppose to be an MMO, then players want to customize their characters and ships.

 

Give players tools to help shape their communities Bioware.

[TheAincient]

I absolutely agree. I really want to pull up a quote that one of the devs said a while back..they said something along the lines of "these sorts of features will not be implemented (or at launch I believe) because TOR isn't a life-sim". What they fail to understand however is that this is suppose to be an MMO. I don't care if your main focus is story or whatnot, but if this is suppose to be an MMO, then players want to customize their characters and ships.

 

Give players tools to help shape their communities Bioware.

 

Agreeed , point is if BW/ EA does not do theses things this game will probably die or at least be a game on life support, even if they do these things it will be very hard to get people to come back as BW /EA has lost the trust of a lot of people.

[grandmthethird]

OP everything you say would make SWTOR better are sandbox elements, (i'm not arguing the whole sandbox v themepark thing) in your 7 years of obsessing over SWTOR as a hobby, since 2005, did you not notice them advertising SWTOR as the biggest and best themepark MMO every.

 

SWTOR is exactly the game that was advertised

[xandax]

It's a bit easy but also pointless to say that TOR should just do SWG things to 'succeed', 'grow' or 'not to die' when there's nothing inherent in those features that guarantee either of those things.

 

It's just a personal preference coming to light in which type of game some people want to play - and nothing outside that.

 

Sandbox vs. Themepark vs. the elusive and much coveted 'hybrid' .... is just that - personal preference and no success criteria is build into implementing those features.

 

Housing in my point of view is a huge waste of resources that adds nothing to a game; for example. Sure it might entertain a few sim-players who likes to play virtual house, but many other players instead would rather have other form of content.

Then it simply comes down to the development company which type of players it wants to try and attract and keep and one thing Bioware never hide or was vague about was which type of players they wanted to try and attract.

Expecting a sandbox game when there's never been mentioned anything but themepark is kinda ..... well, cheap.

Edited June 4, 2012 by xandax

[Goretzu]

It's a bit easy but also pointless to say that TOR should just do SWG things to 'succeed', 'grow' or 'not to die' when there's nothing inherent in those features that guarantee either of those things.

 

It's just a personal preference coming to light in which type of game some people want to play - and nothing outside that.

 

Sandbox vs. Themepark vs. the elusive and much coveted 'hybrid' .... is just that - personal preference and no success criteria is build into implementing those features.

 

Housing in my point of view is a huge waste of resources that adds nothing to a game; for example. Sure it might entertain a few sim-players who likes to play virtual house, but many other players instead would rather have other form of content.

Then it simply comes down to the development company which type of players it wants to try and attract and keep and one thing Bioware never hide or was vague about was which type of players they wanted to try and attract.

Expecting a sandbox game when there's never been mentioned anything but themepark is kinda ..... well, cheap.

 

You can't please everyone with everything......... however you can please most people with something.

 

If Bioware at aiming at 300,000-500,000 longterm subs then they don't need to do anything........ if they want more than that then they need to add a fair be more to SWTOR.

[KungfuPolecat]

The point of this thread is 1. To vent and 2. to throw out some ideas. Rather than reduce this to a litany of why I think SWTOR could fail (and it's much too early to tell and I despise the naysayers anyway) I'd rather help address some problems I've seen and maybe offer some solutions. To that end:

 

When I first heard the rumor in December 2005 of a new Star Wars MMO, I was still reeling from the fallout of the SWG/NGE debacle, and with it, I had a new hope that there just might be a proper Star Wars Universe put to game after all. I followed it obsessively as a hobby, played in the Beta, posted on the forums and I even attended the Guild Leader Summit this year in Austin, TX hoping to be heard, but I was informed they were only interested in feedback on 1.2 and would not be hearing any further game related suggestions. From start to finish I saw pitfalls and gave what humble feedback to no avail. With that said, I offer my perspective for your input, suggestions, flaming and so on, in hope that maybe, just maybe someone from BW might actually deign to consider what is said here.

 

SWG for all it's failings, drama and mishandling by SOE, should not have lasted as long as it did, so why did it go nearly a decade? In my opinion, the community shared a love of Star Wars and were second to none, even the trolls. Next, I would attribute SWG's unusual stamina to the following, and may BW take heed:

 

The keyword in MMO is MASSIVE, hence, one of the things I loved about SWG were the sandbox open worlds. I could pick any random directions and just go. I was not limited by terrain or mazes and forced to take a certain path to my destination. I loved the freedom of that and it aided in my absorption into the game.

 

Housing is a must imo. I could spend hours 'martha stewarting' my own city, home, etc and essentially make my own theme park. It was a gathering place for RP, a warzone for open world PVP and the best of all, was my bragging rights to show off my in-game trophies, etc. Having a place to call my own that I could fully customize to my personal satisfaction made me feel I 'owned' it and was therefore truly a participant in the Galaxy. Man I miss my little dirt hovel on Tat.

 

Interactive furniture...sure it sounds like a small thing, but when I'm not killing or getting pwnd in PVP, I like to RP from time to time. As such, it's a little lame to have to stand, or sit sprawling on the floor when IC. Just a thought.

 

Space, JTL is hands down one of the best Space fighter sims ever put down imho. Not that Starfox wasn't fun, I mean my kids loved it, but guided flight is akin to a guided missile, no point but to hang on for the ride. When I think of flight, I think of freedom of movement, split S's, Immelmans, aileron rolls, etc.

 

ID's (aka Barbershop for you WoW-Kiddies ) I know this is low on BW's priority list, but really? I know I'm not alone when I say this, but SWTOR has easily made me into a hopeless Altoholic. To such an extent at one point I had 32 toons to which I finally scaled down to 8. I know excessive, but I like variety and to be able to change my look when I get bored of it and right now, the only way is to re-roll or to hide my ugly mug with a mask of some fashion.

 

The CTS can't come fast enough, but I fear my Main will be left stranded on a low-pop server as they may limit what servers I can CTS to. I'm presently on a heavy pop with all my alts, waiting for Big Daddy Jedi to make his arrival that may never come. I hope I'm wrong.

 

Lastly, and I know it's been mentioned, but 8 character slots with 16 possible AC combinations (not including spec trees) is limiting my creativity. I'm not asking for 16, but I could definitely use 10...just spitball'n here.

 

So as not to end things on a down-turn, I love the animations, the voice overs, the artwork and the music, incredibly well done BW, so I thank you. It is my desire that as a relative rookie to the MMO realm you can quickly learn, adapt and most importantly communicate with your players so that SWTOR will live up to the franchise's potential and make this into the truly one and only Star Wars MMO that SWG fans had hoped for all those years ago.

 

MTFBWY,

 

A'Sharic Zell

 

PS: Before you ask, No I did not read all 10 bajillion pages of forums, so if there are issues I pointed out already addressed, then by all means link it or go back under your bridge trolls.

 

All great ideas!, just wanted to give this thread a bit of a bump in hope that some bright spark over at bioware takes note. Not likely but one can hope

[Starry]

The point of this thread is 1. To vent and 2. to throw out some ideas. Rather than reduce this to a litany of why I think SWTOR could fail (and it's much too early to tell and I despise the naysayers anyway) I'd rather help address some problems I've seen and maybe offer some solutions. To that end:

 

When I first heard the rumor in December 2005 of a new Star Wars MMO, I was still reeling from the fallout of the SWG/NGE debacle, and with it, I had a new hope that there just might be a proper Star Wars Universe put to game after all. I followed it obsessively as a hobby, played in the Beta, posted on the forums and I even attended the Guild Leader Summit this year in Austin, TX hoping to be heard, but I was informed they were only interested in feedback on 1.2 and would not be hearing any further game related suggestions. From start to finish I saw pitfalls and gave what humble feedback to no avail. With that said, I offer my perspective for your input, suggestions, flaming and so on, in hope that maybe, just maybe someone from BW might actually deign to consider what is said here.

 

SWG for all it's failings, drama and mishandling by SOE, should not have lasted as long as it did, so why did it go nearly a decade? In my opinion, the community shared a love of Star Wars and were second to none, even the trolls. Next, I would attribute SWG's unusual stamina to the following, and may BW take heed:

 

The keyword in MMO is MASSIVE, hence, one of the things I loved about SWG were the sandbox open worlds. I could pick any random directions and just go. I was not limited by terrain or mazes and forced to take a certain path to my destination. I loved the freedom of that and it aided in my absorption into the game.

 

Housing is a must imo. I could spend hours 'martha stewarting' my own city, home, etc and essentially make my own theme park. It was a gathering place for RP, a warzone for open world PVP and the best of all, was my bragging rights to show off my in-game trophies, etc. Having a place to call my own that I could fully customize to my personal satisfaction made me feel I 'owned' it and was therefore truly a participant in the Galaxy. Man I miss my little dirt hovel on Tat.

 

Interactive furniture...sure it sounds like a small thing, but when I'm not killing or getting pwnd in PVP, I like to RP from time to time. As such, it's a little lame to have to stand, or sit sprawling on the floor when IC. Just a thought.

 

Space, JTL is hands down one of the best Space fighter sims ever put down imho. Not that Starfox wasn't fun, I mean my kids loved it, but guided flight is akin to a guided missile, no point but to hang on for the ride. When I think of flight, I think of freedom of movement, split S's, Immelmans, aileron rolls, etc.

 

ID's (aka Barbershop for you WoW-Kiddies ) I know this is low on BW's priority list, but really? I know I'm not alone when I say this, but SWTOR has easily made me into a hopeless Altoholic. To such an extent at one point I had 32 toons to which I finally scaled down to 8. I know excessive, but I like variety and to be able to change my look when I get bored of it and right now, the only way is to re-roll or to hide my ugly mug with a mask of some fashion.

 

The CTS can't come fast enough, but I fear my Main will be left stranded on a low-pop server as they may limit what servers I can CTS to. I'm presently on a heavy pop with all my alts, waiting for Big Daddy Jedi to make his arrival that may never come. I hope I'm wrong.

 

Lastly, and I know it's been mentioned, but 8 character slots with 16 possible AC combinations (not including spec trees) is limiting my creativity. I'm not asking for 16, but I could definitely use 10...just spitball'n here.

 

So as not to end things on a down-turn, I love the animations, the voice overs, the artwork and the music, incredibly well done BW, so I thank you. It is my desire that as a relative rookie to the MMO realm you can quickly learn, adapt and most importantly communicate with your players so that SWTOR will live up to the franchise's potential and make this into the truly one and only Star Wars MMO that SWG fans had hoped for all those years ago.

 

MTFBWY,

 

A'Sharic Zell

 

PS: Before you ask, No I did not read all 10 bajillion pages of forums, so if there are issues I pointed out already addressed, then by all means link it or go back under your bridge trolls.

 

Very well said and I wholeheartedly agree! It is sad that with a development budget over $200 million that some of these wonderful concepts were not incorporated into the game to give SWTOR much needed depth. There were plenty of other aspects of SWG that would could have worked well, but what you listed, if they had been implemented, might have made SWTOR the success that Bioware hoped for and the living, immersive MMO many of us were looking for.

[Diktat]

Housing in my point of view is a huge waste of resources that adds nothing to a game; for example. Sure it might entertain a few sim-players who likes to play virtual house, but many other players instead would rather have other form of content.

This proves you haven't played SWG, and by SWG I mean pre-NGE revamp. One of the crafted items most sold in teh game was precisely HOUSES. The richiest crafters in all servers were ARCHITECS. So housing doesn't add anything to the game, like 2 new professions (architects and politicians) and player driven cities built and designed by players. Precisely introduction of housing in SWG was one of the major impacts in the game experience and all planets changed a lot from one day to another when people started to place their houses in their favourite planet at the spot they liked most. For me only JTL beat the inmersion that housing added to SWG

 

IThen it simply comes down to the development company which type of players it wants to try and attract and keep and one thing Bioware never hide or was vague about was which type of players they wanted to try and attract.

Expecting a sandbox game when there's never been mentioned anything but themepark is kinda ..... well, cheap.

I agree with you about this: companies has their right to choose the type of player they want; but you can be sure 90% of SWTOR's player base would love have a house in any of the game's planets. The problem is that game's design has to change from thempark to sandobox and I don't see such change easy to make and I don't think BW/EA are willing to do so.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Diktat

[BJWyler]

SWG for all it's failings, drama and mishandling by SOE, should not have lasted as long as it did, so why did it go nearly a decade? In my opinion, the community shared a love of Star Wars and were second to none, even the trolls. Next, I would attribute SWG's unusual stamina to the following, and may BW take heed:

First, this isn't (nor was ever advertised as being) SWG 2.0 (sorry, couldn't help it )

 

The keyword in MMO is MASSIVE, hence, one of the things I loved about SWG were the sandbox open worlds. I could pick any random directions and just go. I was not limited by terrain or mazes and forced to take a certain path to my destination. I loved the freedom of that and it aided in my absorption into the game.

Well, the Massive is actually Massively and refers to the number of people playing and not the actual content of the game. That being said, open explorable worlds are a good idea on paper (and for SP games like Skyriim), but there's probably a lot of time and resources devoted to artwork, et al. that naturally takes away resources from other departments in the studio. You need to have engaging gameplay to retain players - not just a pretty mountain. If there is going to be a pretty mountain in the game, there should be a reason (such as quest or resource) for going to that mountain other than the eye candy factor. GW1 was very linear in this aspect, which was jarring to me when first playing, but I quickly realized that the gameplay itself was so engaging (and has kept me engaged for over 7 years), that the fact I can't openly explore the world is a non-issue to me. Same with SWTOR. It was a bit jarring to land on Tython and think the map is small for an entire planet, but once I got into the game, the maps didn't seem too limiting or small after all.

 

Housing is a must imo. I could spend hours 'martha stewarting' my own city, home, etc and essentially make my own theme park. It was a gathering place for RP, a warzone for open world PVP and the best of all, was my bragging rights to show off my in-game trophies, etc. Having a place to call my own that I could fully customize to my personal satisfaction made me feel I 'owned' it and was therefore truly a participant in the Galaxy. Man I miss my little dirt hovel on Tat.

 

Interactive furniture...sure it sounds like a small thing, but when I'm not killing or getting pwnd in PVP, I like to RP from time to time. As such, it's a little lame to have to stand, or sit sprawling on the floor when IC. Just a thought.

And this is where gameplay differences come into effect. I don't care one whit about player housing (again, was not in GW1), nor about being able to customize my ship. After all, why sit at home if there is a pretty mountain to explore, right? In all reality, my ship is simply a means to get from one adventure to another, and I would rather be looking out the cockpit window (or staring at Kira in her gold bikini) than at a painting on the wall. Housing may appeal to the RPer or Sandboxer, but would seem like another waste of time and resource development that can be spent on content more befitting with the base mechanics of the game (like end game and PvP).

 

Space, JTL is hands down one of the best Space fighter sims ever put down imho. Not that Starfox wasn't fun, I mean my kids loved it, but guided flight is akin to a guided missile, no point but to hang on for the ride. When I think of flight, I think of freedom of movement, split S's, Immelmans, aileron rolls, etc.

More enhance Space Combat would certainly be welcome (this is Star Wars after all), not to say that I don't enjoy the current system as a great, diverting mini-game. However, certain design decisions have to be made. I think BW made the right choice - instead of having great space combat with meh ground/planet mechanics and questing (a la STO), or devoting time to both and having neither really outstanding, they made a great core game in which leveling and alts are viable and fun, and are then able to focus more attention to creating the great Space Game for a future expansion.

 

ID's (aka Barbershop for you WoW-Kiddies ) I know this is low on BW's priority list, but really? I know I'm not alone when I say this, but SWTOR has easily made me into a hopeless Altoholic. To such an extent at one point I had 32 toons to which I finally scaled down to 8. I know excessive, but I like variety and to be able to change my look when I get bored of it and right now, the only way is to re-roll or to hide my ugly mug with a mask of some fashion.

Another one of those things that doesn't really mean much to me. I spend a lot of time on character creation for each toon I make in every game, because I want to get the look and feel of the character just right (same with the names). I wish the SWTOR CC was a bit more robust, but I am happy with what I am able to produce. I personally wouldn't use such a system, as I am more concerned with using armor and weapons to customize my character further, but this is one that I don't have a problem with being in a game as a gold sink.

 

The CTS can't come fast enough, but I fear my Main will be left stranded on a low-pop server as they may limit what servers I can CTS to. I'm presently on a heavy pop with all my alts, waiting for Big Daddy Jedi to make his arrival that may never come. I hope I'm wrong.

No doubt about it here. This issue here proves that BW actually does listen to the playerbase - it wouldn't have been as big an issue (if at all), if they didn't listen to everyone screaming about ques at launch. That being said, I think they made the right decision in allowing for a smooth and non-qued launch for the game. They just took it a bit too far and allowed the playerbase to get too spread out. It's unfortunate that the system they had originally designed broke at some point after launch, causing a much to long delay in rectifying the population issue, but at least there is now light on the horizon and I expect to be transferring my toons within a couple of weeks.

 

Lastly, and I know it's been mentioned, but 8 character slots with 16 possible AC combinations (not including spec trees) is limiting my creativity. I'm not asking for 16, but I could definitely use 10...just spitball'n here.

Yeah, couple the AC (and then the three trees for each) with the Legacy species unlocks, and 8 characters per server is clearly not enough for the altoholic or completionist.

 

BJ