Lucifersfinest Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 it says in the descirption of the chiss: theyre the only species loyal to the empire and a target of intrest to everyone else so arent they noot the best spies? Isnt it like having a [insert enemy here] go and become friends with the other team? thank you in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaplemouton Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 What??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) You read that kind off wrong, really...lol. They're the only species that *willing* joined the empire, rather than being invaded. As far as I know, the details of their alliance with the Empire isn't public knowledge. They're a very secretive society and their joining of the Empire was conditional on keeping their homeworld private and unvisited by outsiders. A lot of various alien species' planets are under the Empire's jurisdiction, but by force. There typically isn't a clear racial alliance with either faction. In other words I don't believe the Republic have any reason to believe that every Chiss they encounter, (which should be a small number, despite what the MMO makes you think) is Imperial. Edited May 31, 2012 by chuixupu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifersfinest Posted June 1, 2012 Author Share Posted June 1, 2012 You read that kind off wrong, really...lol. They're the only species that *willing* joined the empire, rather than being invaded. As far as I know, the details of their alliance with the Empire isn't public knowledge. They're a very secretive society and their joining of the Empire was conditional on keeping their homeworld private and unvisited by outsiders. A lot of various alien species' planets are under the Empire's jurisdiction, but by force. There typically isn't a clear racial alliance with either faction. In other words I don't believe the Republic have any reason to believe that every Chiss they encounter, (which should be a small number, despite what the MMO makes you think) is Imperial. Ah makes much more sense thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutive Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Now I personally found the chiss as spies slightly hilarious (esp. during the double agent bit) as I'd assume that even the SIS (who seems...how should we put it...a bit gullible perhaps?) would sooner or later figure out that blue skin = probable imperial ally. With that said, I can see how the Republic might believe that your particular character *might* defect. Esp. when they have the mind control as a fail safe. After all, it's hard to believe that there are *no* defectors from any side. Unless the Chiss are suddenly borgs, a few of them will choose to leave the Ascendancy and/or Empire for all kinds of reasons. (Ranging from ideological to financial to "there was this really hot Miralan girl/guy and I went for it...") Humans (or near humans) are humans. They're not this one monolithic group. If anything, a chiss agent would be *more* valuable to the Empire than a human agent as they could spill secrets not only on the Empire, but also on the Ascendancy. (And I have to think that the head guys in the Republic are salivating at the idea of convincing the Ascendancy to side with them...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Also remember, the Empire is known for despising aliens, no matter how near-human they are. Incidentally, if you play on the Republic side, there is a Chiss defector on Hoth. Unfortunately he gets killed before you can ever find out what his reasons are, so that kind of disappointed me a bit. I also play a Chiss Consular. Yay for odd and somewhat lore-bending legacy combos (And I have to think that the head guys in the Republic are salivating at the idea of convincing the Ascendancy to side with them...) That I doubt....because I don't think the Republic has enough knowledge about the Chiss to come to that conclusion - at least that is the impression I get from stuff I've read. In the game, the Republic doesn't seem to think much of them other than being a bunch of weird blue aliens that they run into out in Hoth working with the Empire. We'll see what Bioware does with it in the future. Keep in mind a whole lot of Chiss lore has been continuously retconned since Timothy Zahn created the character Thrawn over 20 years ago I don't think he originally imagined them being in the Old Republic. Edited June 1, 2012 by chuixupu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutive Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 That I doubt....because I don't think the Republic has enough knowledge about the Chiss to come to that conclusion - at least that is the impression I get from stuff I've read. In the game, the Republic doesn't seem to think much of them other than being a bunch of weird blue aliens that they run into out in Hoth working with the Empire. We'll see what Bioware does with it in the future. Keep in mind a whole lot of Chiss lore has been continuously retconned since Timothy Zahn created the character Thrawn over 20 years ago I don't think he originally imagined them being in the Old Republic. Undoubtedly there was a retcon (esp. as initial sources seem to indicate that the "chiss" are a human/Noghri hybrid). But the Republic is pretty short sighted indeed if they're not thinking, "Huh, there's this alien power out there that we might be able to convince to come to our side..." Although the Chiss seem to inevitably end up with the Empire, there's nothing pre-dispositioning them to end up that way, near as I can tell. If I were a smart Republic diplomat, I could see myself thinking, "You know...if I play my cards right, maybe I can convince these people that the Empire is never going to like them...and that they might be a bit better off in a culture that at least pretends that all humanoids are equal." Not that I've yet seen a member of the Republic who seems this savvy. But still. I have to assume that 'one* exists. If nothing else, I'd think that the SIS would be psyched just to have insight on the Chiss in order to wipe them out of existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I think the hybrid idea was some very early idea Zahn had about Thrawn...I've heard it mentioned but never seen the actual sources. In any case it didn't last very long. I'm curious where you found that. I guess since we are looking back into the past, it makes it less interesting to speculate since we know the Chiss never do align with the Old Republic and not even the New Republic. I guess they did try to reach out in Swarm War (which I haven't read) but that didn't pan out. It does appear that the only reason why they joined the Empire is that they found them first. Though I suppose at this time in history it may appear that the Sith have the upper hand. Nobody wants their homeworld to end up like Taris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razdek Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Also remember, the Empire is known for despising aliens, no matter how near-human they are. Incidentally, if you play on the Republic side, there is a Chiss defector on Hoth. Unfortunately he gets killed before you can ever find out what his reasons are, so that kind of disappointed me a bit. I also play a Chiss Consular. Yay for odd and somewhat lore-bending legacy combos That I doubt....because I don't think the Republic has enough knowledge about the Chiss to come to that conclusion - at least that is the impression I get from stuff I've read. In the game, the Republic doesn't seem to think much of them other than being a bunch of weird blue aliens that they run into out in Hoth working with the Empire. We'll see what Bioware does with it in the future. Keep in mind a whole lot of Chiss lore has been continuously retconned since Timothy Zahn created the character Thrawn over 20 years ago I don't think he originally imagined them being in the Old Republic. In episode 4 era empire they were not known to 'like' aliens. This tor era empire is actually a 'sith empire' and sith are actually a pure blood alien race... So the chiss siding with them is not so far fetched. I might also add that post episode 6 one of the empires greatest generals was grand admiral thrawn a chiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithy Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 In episode 4 era empire they were not known to 'like' aliens. This tor era empire is actually a 'sith empire' and sith are actually a pure blood alien race... So the chiss siding with them is not so far fetched. I might also add that post episode 6 one of the empires greatest generals was grand admiral thrawn a chiss. True, however the Sith don't like aliens as much as the galactic empire did, basicly the pure blood Sith race is the same, if not better than Humans in their eyes. and the Sith arn't aliens to the...well sith. they are to us RL humans though.... not sure if I explained that well, does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 In episode 4 era empire they were not known to 'like' aliens. This tor era empire is actually a 'sith empire' and sith are actually a pure blood alien race... So the chiss siding with them is not so far fetched. I might also add that post episode 6 one of the empires greatest generals was grand admiral thrawn a chiss. Have you played this game and actually listened to what they tell you constantly? They make it very clear that they consider everything other than humans and sith to be nearly worthless. I remember playing my Bounty Hunter I was told that being an alien BH was a hair above a servant droid in respect around Dromund Kaas. Even on my agent I walked in on a conversation that went like this:, "ugh, now I hear he's bringing in a Chiss." "Don't worry, standards during war time, Korriban will return to it's former ways soon enough" It is funny that Sith are kind of "off the hook" on the alien thing. I guess they're practically like gods to the Empire. From what I recall reading, the current Sith are not actually the original species anymore but a hybrid between them and Dark Jedi that settled there. There's some quest in the game where someone is actually testing you for "purity" but very few, if any really are. And Thrawn was the first alien to be promoted to Grand Admiral in the Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutive Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I think the hybrid idea was some very early idea Zahn had about Thrawn...I've heard it mentioned but never seen the actual sources. In any case it didn't last very long. I'm curious where you found that. Just as far as the source: In the Heir to the Empire books, Pelleaon repeatedly describes Thrawn as "mixed race". It's debatable whether he *is* (seeing as I'd have no idea how Pelleaon would know). But he does. In addition, the "Heir to the Empire Sourcebook" mentions that Thrawn is "not entirely of human origin". (And I'm forgetting where I saw the "he's probably part Noghri part human", but I'm fairly sure that this was mentioned somewhere...just not feeling up to hunting down the ancient book. But the rationale makes some sense seeing as the aliens that Thrawn is constantly seen with are the Noghri). Regardless, I feel fairly sure that Chiss wasn't originally a species. Probably Zahn just came up with a cool blue skinned character who became super popular, at which point his species was ret-conned into existence. (Despite that Thrawn was probably originally intended to be part human, part a near humanoid race.) That I have these books in my house shows that I am *way* too nerdy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 J In addition, the "Heir to the Empire Sourcebook" mentions that Thrawn is "not entirely of human origin". (And I'm forgetting where I saw the "he's probably part Noghri part human", but I'm fairly sure that this was mentioned somewhere...just not feeling up to hunting down the ancient book. But the rationale makes some sense seeing as the aliens that Thrawn is constantly seen with are the Noghri). Regardless, I feel fairly sure that Chiss wasn't originally a species. Probably Zahn just came up with a cool blue skinned character who became super popular, at which point his species was ret-conned into existence. (Despite that Thrawn was probably originally intended to be part human, part a near humanoid race.) Ah, thanks, that's interesting. Yeah, I believe that's exactly what happened...and it's best that it did, the original idea is kind of lame and Chiss became way more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutive Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Ah, thanks, that's interesting. Yeah, I believe that's exactly what happened...and it's best that it did, the original idea is kind of lame and Chiss became way more interesting. IDK. I kind of find the idea of a near humanoid race interbreeding with humans to produce an out caste grand admiral who is accepted by neither species to be pretty cool. With that said, I like what the Chiss have become, so can't really complain. (And, again, since the Chiss seem to consider humans Chiss if they live in the Chiss Ascendancy and act like everyone else, arguably it is possible that there are cross-breeds who are lightish blue and the Chiss are like, "We don't know what you humans are talking about when claim this person is a half-breed. Sure, her mother is human, but she lives on Csilia so she's Chiss. This is so obvious. How can you not comprehend?" And, of course, for humans, as long as a person don't have skin in some shade of tan to brown, they're non-human, so any half-breed who has enough Chiss blood to show it is Chiss. Which would simplify the half-breed problem, if we assume cross-fertility.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Ok that last paragraph throws me a bit...hadn't heard that before, though I have read that their language is incredibly difficult to learn and they're incredibly xenophobic so humans just living on csilla seems odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutive Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Ok that last paragraph throws me a bit...hadn't heard that before, though I have read that their language is incredibly difficult to learn and they're incredibly xenophobic so humans just living on csilla seems odd. It does. But Temple apparently lived there, and supposedly there are other humans who were thrown onto Csilia for various reasons in different lore. (Probably the real lesson is: Star Wars lore is so convoluted that you can justify anything you want.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuixupu Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) I don't think Temple ever lived on Csilla...at least after playing through the agent story twice I never picked that up. From the conversations I recall it sounded like her father pulled some strings to have her stationed at Hoth at the CEDF base, nothing more. Furthermore, I remember her also mentioning that her turning up at the base was initially treated with suspicion, and that they thought the one human hanging around in the Chiss base has to be a spy, so it didn't sound like she was all that "familiar" with them. Edited June 8, 2012 by chuixupu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celacia Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I don't think Temple ever lived on Csilla...at least after playing through the agent story twice I never picked that up. From the conversations I recall it sounded like her father pulled some strings to have her stationed at Hoth at the CEDF base, nothing more.That was the impression that I got as well. I don't think either she or they ever considered her to be Chiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts