Hard Talk On Gamebreaker TV(The Republic: Doomed To Fail)

[Dezzi]

This ^

 

I also want to know why.

 

I've yet to see anyone say they want the game to fail.

[Mallorik]

This ^

 

I also want to know why.

 

Delusions aside, where did anyone say they want the game to fail?

 

LOL and another thing, Gamebreakers headline wasnt "the Republic: Doomed to fail" it is "The Republic: Doomed To Fail?" theres a big difference between a statement and a Question

 

If you fanboys are freaking out because someone dared to ask if swtor was doomed to fail you really need to take a break and think about whether youre off your rockers or not.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Mallorik

[Scorpienne]

31:05 "I don't think we have a lot of hard core players here. I think the core of the game is a more casual player and we've also have seen the concurrent users drop down drastically as well. ... So we're looking at people that play the game a couple of times a week versus every single day for a couple of hours each day. " He goes on to say that BW should focus on the core player, which is the casual player.

 

I think that this is probably what's going on. It is my experience that the bulk of subscribers I know play casually, a few hours a week. That would very possibly lead to the drop in concurrent subscriber numbers that we've seen happen.

 

My friends that are more hard-core gamers unsubbed. My friends that are more casual gamers stayed. /shrug Your mileage may vary, of course.

 

paige

[SentinelDranoel]

This "gamebreaker tv" lacks legitimacy IMO, and there is no point is reading their article.

[JediElf]

Never mind...I'm to tired for this....

 

... just to tired...

Edited May 31, 2012 by JediElf

[Mallorik]

it's one thing, to be just a few sites, or an objective opinion. The 'freaking out' is because this is nearly constant, and it seems to be everywhere. At some point it stops being constructive, and just becomes more overly negative noise.

 

SW:TOR is far from perfect, even a fan like me can see that, I know that, but it seems like there is such a twisted amount of joy being taken by some, that would love to see this game crash and burn, not to mention that other new games do not have the same unforgiving spotlight, that this game seems to have on it.

 

I just want to know why this game seems to deserve such an overly harsh treatment. SW:TOR really isn't 'that bad', and it will get better over time. Long ago people gave WOW and EQ a chance to grow and imprive, why not this MMO?

 

Sometimes it just feels like there are some folks who would like to take the game from me, and I'd like to know why.

 

the reason it is all over websites dedicated to the game is because it is true and it is a real problem, these websties exist because of this game, if it fails so do they. You would think that even the die hard fanboys would take this as a dire warning that they are wrong and this game needs to be fixed and fast.

 

Running around telling everyone this game is fine as it is and theres no problem is not helping anyone, its obvious from recent posts by devs that they still hold true to many of the beliefs that have run this game into the ground. Stand up with other people that want this game to be fixed and saved and demand the devs to open there eyes. Instead of patting them on the back and telling them theyre doing great.

 

And trust me, people were very hard on eq1 and wow, i was there i saw it. But bioware released a game in 2012 missing key features games like eq1 released with, they did not do it not because of time and money, they did it because they did not understand the mmo player base, if nobody tells them that then they will never figure it out, because they obviously havent learned from losing half their subs in 6 months.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Mallorik

[JediElf]

the reason it is all over websites dedicated to the game is because it is true and it is a real problem, these websties exist because of this game, if it fails so do they. You would think that even the die hard fanboys would take this as a dire warning that they are wrong and this game needs to be fixed and fast.

 

Like I said I know the game is not perfect, and it does need some things. However I am far, far from thinking that this game is sinking, or failing, or anything else. I don't see it, and I've played MMOs that actually have failed, or are on life support now.

 

Perhaps if people started posting 'Lets help this game improve' or 'How can we help SWTOR instead of this unmitigated blitheness, at the prospect of it's doom, then perhaps things might improve. Hope, instead of despair.

 

You get more flies with honey, than with acid.

Edited May 31, 2012 by JediElf

[Emeda]

to jedielfs post that he deleted but was quoted above.

 

One reason why people are after SWTOR so much is because it killed a game they enjoyed (SWG).

 

Another reason IMO is because its till for everyone to get over the themepark MMO. The fake casuals are killing it. They turned every ride into the tea-cups since they cant have a ride that someone cant go on because they are too short or its too scary, everyone no matter who it is must be able to ride every ride in these games now.

 

The last reason I will give is that the hardcore player makes a game last. If you dont get the hardcore players to play the game it will fail. I cant think of a game that has increased in subs after they went casual and ignored the hardcore players.

[reaperkeepet]

Never mind...I'm to tired for this....

 

... just to tired...

 

:rak_02: What?????????

[Seregul]

Delusions aside, where did anyone say they want the game to fail?

 

LOL and another thing, Gamebreakers headline wasnt "the Republic: Doomed to fail" it is "The Republic: Doomed To Fail?" theres a big difference between a statement and a Question

 

If you fanboys are freaking out because someone dared to ask if swtor was doomed to fail you really need to take a break and think about whether youre off your rockers or not.

 

The title is inflammatory (my only real gripe with GBTV is their Drudge Report-esque front page), but I thought they were pretty fair about it. And I'm certain none of them want the game to fail.

[Bloodstealer]

I'd hope they drop both to support the 4th pillar. I have no interest in endgame PvE, and no interest in ANY form of PvP in an RPG.

 

Lol so your fine paying $50 for the game and sweet on handing over another $15 a month to play a single player game then... each to there own i guess...

Endgame is pretty much the only place left to grp up now and without it or PVP per say.. your toon will forever be less than nominal cos the gear is the key once you run out of story telling..... and its the only real carrot hanging out infront of you at that point....

[Mallorik]

I'm having fun right now.

 

I'm enjoying the content that we have, right now.

 

I'm paying my subscription, because I'm having a good time.

 

Like I said I know the game is not perfect, and it does need some things. However I am far, far from thinking that this game is sinking, or failing, or anything else. I don't see it, and I've played MMOs that actually have failed, or are on life support now.

 

Perhaps if people started posting 'Lets help this game improve' or 'How can we help SWTOR instead of this unmitigated glee, at the prospect of it's doom, then perhaps things might improve.

 

You get more flies with honey, than with acid.

 

Come on, can't you see that at this point, it's just getting a little depressing?

 

Yes it is very depressing, but spreading honey all over a gaping wound and telling the patient hes fine is not going to save him either.

 

I dont know what to say if you think this game is doing fine, if you dont see that it is in big trouble and you think sites that exsist because of this game are "attacking " it and want to see it fail then logic isnt going to win you over.

 

And i think most of this "anger and hatred" you see are people who are arguing with eachother over how to fix this game.

 

If daniel erickson came out tomorrow and said, we are coming out with 10k population mega servers or a x server lfg tool, that they know people want a combat window, dual specs, macros etc. and they are workng on them i would have no reason to post on this board, i woudlnt even care how long it takes them to implement them, i just want to be reasured that im not throwing money into a game that is being run by people that dont know what they doing and refuse to learn.

[Mallorik]

The title is inflammatory (my only real gripe with GBTV is their Drudge Report-esque front page), but I thought they were pretty fair about it. And I'm certain none of them want the game to fail.

 

the op mis quoted it, if it was a statement yes it was inflamatory, but it wasnt. But i do agree they get a little fox newsish, but i think they try to as a joke, its a freaking games website. Youre getting news about pokemon in wow not nuclear missles in iran.

[GrandMike]

Yeah I watched the whole thing as well and gotta say I didnt agree with them much at all!

 

And the Darth Hater guy trying to be so politically correct with his answers was annoying as all hell.

 

-Its clear they all like Stephen Reid so were working from a Bias there. While I approved of Reids changes to forums (you think moderation tough now, should have seen under Dalberg) his use of Twitter has come under heavy critism and WASNT veiwed as a positive thing (as they try to spin). Reid lacked a forum presence and thus lacked a community presence outside of his twitter fanbase.

 

- Keep hearing them talk about community and empty servers and declining subs yet not one of them offered up solid impactful options to building the community. They seem tot hink if you put people togather they suddenly going to start talking to each other and interacting.

 

News flash, if people not doing it now with 4 or 5 others in their areas, why would they suddenly open up to 100+ in same area?

 

The game needs social content to bring players togather. Not Raids for raiders that promote more clickish behavior, not Ranked Warzones for PVPers that promite more clickish behavior, not Auction house, not any of that. The game needs content that BRINGS ALL PLAYERS (of all styles) TOGATHER TO A COMMON PURPOSE.

 

-Cant say I agreed with much with Gamebreaker and dont see me watching another episode after that.

 

Too bad they didnt listen through the whole pre-launch time (pretty much from when swtor.com site launched). Forced grouping for gear grinding? Yah, right. Guess they learned a lesson now...or not.

 

Its very hard to form a community on empty server. Its also very hard to from a community with cross-server thing. They DID identify those problems.

 

BW has to deal with their own mistakes now. Sad thing is that i dont see them dealing with them in a meaningful way.

 

And last but not the least - at least some media broke away form "rainbows and unicorns" SWTOR routine.

Edited May 31, 2012 by GrandMike

[Ganrax]

That is a complete lie. They do remove posts that they dont want people to see. They will also give you infraction points just because someone reports you.

 

That's common practice on just about any MMO I've played. I haven't played an MMO yet that doesn't delete/lock most of the threads that speak negatively about the game passing it off as nonconstructive while allowing equally nonconstructive threads praising the game pass by. Not defending Bioware(I think they are in way over their head here with their inexperience and their arrogance is not helping) but it's pretty common place for that to happen on an MMO forums. Turbine(LOTRO) would have to have been the worst I've seen so far, I actually got a 4 day suspension on their forums for calling someone a carebear on a first offense.

 

As for the banning though, I am gonna call BS. I know they are deleting/locking a lot of threads/posts that speak about the games and not just consolidating threads but they aren't banning a lot of people. I know I personally have received a ton of warnings and had a lot of posts deleted and I'm still here.

[gregordunbar]

oh oh oh...don't say that buddy. There are A LOT of people on this site HOPING it fails and they won't get off the site if they don't like the game. Sad

 

I think the people that WANT the game to fail are those acting like nothing is wrong with it and shutting down those talking about it...

 

They, afterall...are the ones making it easy for Bioware not to notice what players are upset about.

[GrandMike]

I think the people that WANT the game to fail are those acting like nothing is wrong with it and shutting down those talking about it...

 

They, afterall...are the ones making it easy for Bioware not to notice what players are upset about.

 

He he, yah, its common knowledge that pushing problems under the rug is the best way to success

[MikelGoff]

to jedielfs post that he deleted but was quoted above.

 

One reason why people are after SWTOR so much is because it killed a game they enjoyed (SWG).

 

Another reason IMO is because its till for everyone to get over the themepark MMO. The fake casuals are killing it. They turned every ride into the tea-cups since they cant have a ride that someone cant go on because they are too short or its too scary, everyone no matter who it is must be able to ride every ride in these games now.

 

The last reason I will give is that the hardcore player makes a game last. If you dont get the hardcore players to play the game it will fail. I cant think of a game that has increased in subs after they went casual and ignored the hardcore players.

 

SWG would have been dead even if TOR never came out.

[ChazDoit]

Gamebreaker is to TOR what Fox News is to politics.

 

Pretty much this, some of the people on the panel are legitimate players and I like their opinions, but the show always had a negative tone, when 1.1 was deployed and the Imperials farmed the republic base for a day, man, Gamebreaker took those news and run with them for weeks, and the funny thing is that, at the moment, only one person on the whole panel was lvl 50, the jokers were just reporting on a video they pulled out from Youtube

Edited May 31, 2012 by ChazDoit

[GrandMike]

Pretty much this, some of the people on the panel are legitimate players and I like their opinions, but the show always had a negative tone, when 1.1 was deployed and the Imperials farmed the republic base for a day, man, Gamebreaker took those news and run with them for weeks, and the funny thing is that, at the moment, only one person on the whole panel was lvl 50, the jokers were just reporting on a video they pulled out from Youtube

 

Uh yeah, but BW let many other exploits run and exploiters free to go. 15/month is 15/month i guess.

[Bloodstealer]

- - SNIP - -

And the Darth Hater guy trying to be so politically correct with his answers was annoying as all hell.

Yeah he was kind of annoying to the point I thought he was on a motion sensor response system.. the only one I thought really got it and was more open to discussing the topical issues that the community is generally feeling right now was Ed Park from Taugrim.

 

- Keep hearing them talk about community and empty servers and declining subs yet not one of them offered up solid impactful options to building the community. They seem tot hink if you put people togather they suddenly going to start talking to each other and interacting.

News flash, if people not doing it now with 4 or 5 others in their areas, why would they suddenly open up to 100+ in same area?

I think if their ideas of tranfers / super servers starts working as intended then sure it will.. you forget the majority of those players who transfer from dead servers are actually the ones wanting to group up.. you might not on your server but when you get a deluge of others coming to the community their fIrst thought is likely to be "wow so many more players, finally I can run X-quest/raid/flashpoint.. and begin to use the LFG to do it.. why would you think otherwise. Sure those who want to pay for a solo game each month will still be happy doing it in their own encapsulated world, guilds will still run guilds, channels run channels etc etc.. but the knock on effect is that all those different options will grow as more join the servers.. guilds will grow etc etc.... its not really that hard to comprehend surely..

 

The game needs social content to bring players together. Not Raids for raiders that promote more clickish behavior, not Ranked Warzones for PVPers that promote more clickish behavior, not Auction house, not any of that. The game needs content that BRINGS ALL PLAYERS (of all styles) TOGATHER TO A COMMON PURPOSE.

Eeerm it needs social content that promotes bringing players together for a common purpose ---- ermm what are OPs, Raids or even PVP if they dont do this ... tell us what is this gem of an idea for such content that you are witholding from us all...

What does a GTN do if it does not utilise the community.. the crafters get to do their thing, for us to buy / sell on .. thats social or community activity and builds economy... one without the other would be like it is now.. SOLO - a crafter would make stuff for themselves and companions and nothing more, loot we pick up wud be sold to nearest med droid or vendor so only you benefit (albeit slower to get rich) and nothing gets shared around the differnt levels of players who want to deck there toons out before they run quests etc.....

PvP while I am no PvP'er is one of the few things left in the game currently where we actually get to see other players and have some kind of immersive faction v faction activity or are you happy to run around lifeless never changing planets with peg in hole respawns you kill time and time again by yourself until you hit the end of your class quests and have nothing left to do - ... okies all power to you

 

I think you are seriously short in understanding of what makes up the social/community side of an MMO

 

Sigh....

Edited May 31, 2012 by Bloodstealer

[jibboo]

The guy in the upper left corner was kinda douchey, and it seemed like, of the four, he's the one that wants the game to fail and he's the one that has an agenda.

 

I could sense a genuine disappointment in the game from the other three. It seems like they want the game to succeed, but are starting to lose faith.

 

There were a lot of good points made, especially the one about the servers needing to reach "critical mass" to get more players subscribing.

 

I've unsubbed, but I will come back if super-servers, or server merges occur.

[Bulvine]

A look at MMO's and the history of naysayers...

 

Ultima Online- First MMO, broke ground and paved the way for every other MMO out there. Still going 15 years later.

 

Everquest 1&2- The first one was going to kill UO. Everyone stated this doomed UO cause of the playstyle of UO compared to EQ. But UO is still going. EQ 2 was said to be the killer of DAoC. Both are still in existence to this day despite the forums and game sites claiming they would fail due to problems.

 

Dark Age of Camelot- Groundbreaking RvR (PvP) and a grind system for leveling up. The forums were packed with ppl screaming and crying that the game sucked that it was doomed to fail. 9-10 years later its still going.

 

Anarchy Online- Considered to be THE worst MMO launch in history. The forums were massed with ppl screaming and crying how the game sucked and was going to fail. That nobody wanted a game of that style in existence, the quest were horrible etc. etc. etc. The game is still going strong today, even in its F2P format.

 

Star Wars Galaxies- Another MMO that had a very rocky start, but turned into a very good game. Sandbox style, space flight with PvP and open world everything. The forums were rocked with ppl claiming that it would fail within a year. The game took on an 8 year life span even with the NGE almost crashing the game to nothing. It still stayed strong.

 

World of Warcraft- The King of MMOs. Plagued in the first year with server restarts in the middle of the day. Servers going down 2-3 times a day. Bugs that are too many to list on one forum. The boards were on fire with ppl screaming foul and that the game would fail. That Blizzard should have never made an MMO. 8 years later its the King and that title won't be taken away.

 

Eve- I will not go into the list of everything here. Forums crying the same as the others. Game still going.

 

STO- Everyone screaming the same tired stuff on the forums again. Still going strong in F2P format

 

Age of Conan- Brought a little something new to the game, not much but a little. Again, forums spewing the same stuff that they did in other game. Still going strong in F2P format.

 

LotR- Same views and tired sayings on their forums, still going strong.

 

 

Without listing every single MMO out there.. Let me put it this way. TOR is getting the same crap that every other game was given in the first year, probably by the exact same people as other games. Everyone that bashes cries screams yells "FOUL" on the forums are the Vocal Minority. Because those that are playing the game and enjoying it are.. well.. ingame and not on the forums crying about one thing or another.

 

Do I think this game has some issues. Yes, what MMO in the first year doesn't? Do, I think Bioware is going to put the effort into keeping this game going for the long haul. Yes I do, without even hesitating I believe that.

 

What kills games are not the developers, its the players that scream the loudest for something. Then, when those players get what they want... they tend to scream and cry more because its not exactly as they wanted it to be.

 

 

Gonna go back to enjoying the game... I brought Flame Resistant gear, so flame away if you like.

[Seregul]

the op mis quoted it, if it was a statement yes it was inflamatory, but it wasnt. But i do agree they get a little fox newsish, but i think they try to as a joke, its a freaking games website. Youre getting news about pokemon in wow not nuclear missles in iran.

 

First off, sorry for making you go to Drudge . I think you're right that it's mostly a joke, or at least tongue in cheek. They've had similar titles for their other shows, so I'm confident they aren't singling out SWTOR. If you want to see them bash a game check out their TERA coverage.

[clintcasey]

They do raise an interesting point though. Going forward, is Bioware going to be able to maintain the 4th pillar idea of heavy story emphasis, potentially at the loss of other areas of the game, or are they going to have to abandon the 4th pillar in order to devote those resources to aspects like endgame PVE and PVP.

 

There was no speculation on the size of Bioware's resource pool, but still it is an interesting point. If the decision to have to do one or the other was dropped in front of them, which would they choose?

 

Not going to happen.

 

When times get tough you fall back on your strengths, and the leveling process is some of the best material in the game. In fact it's so good that it inspires most people to level characters strait through the max level instead of trying out a bunch of different alts at once.