Why so expensive to move mods?

[Lugosi]

Agreed. The cost of swapping item modifications is stupid, and is probably my biggest gripe with the game.

 

It's not needed whatsoever. There are plenty of money sinks in the legacy system.

 

I have changed out my chest, legs, saber, head, and belt on my Sorc with gear with augment slots. On my Operative I have changed out the head, mainhand, legs, and bracers. These are all Rakata grade mods at 37k each. That's almost 1 mil credits and I still haven't found gloves and boots for my Sorc or Op (Thank goodness I like the Rakata chest for operative, I'll probably just have to pay a mil credits to add an augment slot in 1.3). Not to mention spending 100k to 150k for each piece of augmentable gear and augments off the GTN (I am not complaining about this part, atleast someone else is getting the credits).

 

I was broke for a while after 1.2 because of this. You may say that was my choice to min max, but you are wrong. It was a result of poor design, plain and simple. I finally worked back up to 1.5 mil to buy a speices yesterday, which I would have bought sooner if not for this dumb*** system. So any money sink argument is completely invalid.

 

I am a firm believer that the price should be cut by 90%. I have earned the gear and it is bound to me. Let me do as I please with it. BW keeps telling us they want us to have the option to customize our gear, but you have to be rich to do it. I'm sure someone is going to pop into the thread and say "but money is so easy to get in this game, l2p". And you know what? I don't give a ****. Don't get me started on the fact you can spend an hour solo'ing dailies and make a profit yet spend an hour doing difficult content like Operations and end up losing money in the end. Crafting, lol, I'm an artifice. First person to say craft and use the GTN, I am going to force choke you through my computer.

 

/endrant

[ACLucius]

First person to say craft and use the GTN, I am going to force choke you through my computer.

 

Craft and use the GTN....

 

Honestly, I think people who keep asking for these money sinks to be taken away or lessened have never been on a game that had an extremely bad economy caused by inflation. I came from a game where after the first year prices went up by 1000%, no joke either. The price of some items went from 100,000 to 10,000,000

 

I don't know about you, but I'd rather be barely able to afford things with 10,000 credits as opposed to barely able to afford things with 10,000,000 credits. Keep the money sinks in.

[Anakis]

I agree that it is far too expensive to remove the high end mods from items. Credit sinks are good, but we should get something for it (legacy bonuses, conveniences, luxury items). We shouldn't have to feed the credit black hole just to change our clothes.

 

Instead of reducing the cost 30%, they should reduce the cost 70%.

[SpazCats]

Craft and use the GTN....

 

Honestly, I think people who keep asking for these money sinks to be taken away or lessened have never been on a game that had an extremely bad economy caused by inflation. I came from a game where after the first year prices went up by 1000%, no joke either. The price of some items went from 100,000 to 10,000,000

 

I don't know about you, but I'd rather be barely able to afford things with 10,000 credits as opposed to barely able to afford things with 10,000,000 credits. Keep the money sinks in.

 

There ARE MANY, MANY money sinks already in the game. NO ONE here is arguing that we don't need some money sinks. Just that being able to change your appearance is too expensive for many people.

 

Does being able to easily and cheaply change your appearance affect the in-game economies in games like Rift, WoW and LOTRO?

 

****Nope, it does not.****

 

So I'm not sure why people keep trying to say that making changes to your appearance will wreck the in-game economy.

[Journeyer]

If the cost is high for you, you aren't playing regularly enough to deserve completely custom gear. That's not my opinion, it's the developer opinion, as expressed through the game's current implementation.

 

All the play time and possible expense you mentioned to acquire the gear was exactly that: the cost to acquire the gear. And BW does not place credit restrictions to keep you from having top-tier gear, or from placing newly commendation-purchased mods into your gear; it's free.

 

It's when you decide that you want your gear to be a bit more special than the standard stock gear that BW provides a way to sink credits. If it costs too much, then don't do it. Just put on your top-tier gear and be done with it.

[Armourboy]

I don't mind credit sinks, but put them in places people don't mind them. A credit sink for changing your clothes is possibly one of the dumbest ideas I've ever seen in an MMO. You already earned the gear, its stupid to need to re-earn it every single time you want to change anything about the way it looks.

[SpazCats]

If the cost is high for you, you aren't playing regularly enough to deserve completely custom gear. That's not my opinion, it's the developer opinion, as expressed through the game's current implementation.

 

... If it costs too much, then don't do it. Just put on your top-tier gear and be done with it.

 

So, according to your argument, the game's entire current implementation is fine as is, and if you don't like it, suck it up buttercup, because that is Bioware's opinion on how things should be done.

 

And so we should NEVER make suggestions, and just play the game the way Bioware wants you to?

 

Wow.

[Wodaz]

I totally agree with the OP, why should we pay for very poor artwork?

 

I was completely appalled the first time I tried removing my BM mods to use in better looking orange gear.

I don't think it should come at "No Cost", but the current rates or even the 1.3 rates are still ridiculous!! I can add mods or overwrite mods at no cost, so I don't get why removing them is so outrageously overpriced??

 

Definitely hope BW will shoot for at least a 60-70% decrease in costs because 30 is just not enough!!

[jjmartin]

A) it's not fluff.

 

To get BiS gear you have to 1) buy augmented orange shell, 2) buy augment, 3) pull mods and move them to the new shell. On average, let's say this costs 100k for the orange, 75k for the augment, 100k to pull mods - for each piece.

 

Obv this price will drop with the 1.3 changes, but the cost of pulling mods seems overkill when you figure you've already spent 175k on the process.

 

B) it's the biggest money sink in the game, and out of line with everything else. People have mentioned this above.

 

C) toon customization is good for the game. The more unique your toon looks, the more effort you've put into customizing it, the more you get attached to it. This is what makes people resub. That's really good for company profits.

[Calexus]

Okay, this is irritating me a little bit. Why does Bioware punish us with mod swapping? Is it because it hurts your art design team's feelings? Look, I have a scoundrel. He looks very interesting to me with his gunslinger's goggles, a tasteful vest and assorted other pieces.

 

So anyway I PvP'd on him and was able to buy the battlemaster boots. Life was glorious. Until I looked in the wardrobe window. My Scoundrel is not, I repeat, not a prostitute. I have no desire to dress him in the same thigh high boots Julia Roberts wore in Pretty Woman. It cost me damn near 120K to pull the mods out of that abomination and put them in normal looking boots.

 

Now, I know if I want to grind, I can recover that money. That however is not the point. I earned the original set of gear. I earned the upgraded set of gear. I should not have to pay 120K credits because frankly your art department is terrible. If I want to swap out my characters mods, then I should be able to do so on a whim. It shouldn't cost close to a million credits to change outfit and sidearm(extrapolated if I wanted 6 pieces plus pistol).

 

Find another money sink guys. You realize your competition has realized that allowing players to look unique is a good thing. The competition who's name rhymes with Gizzard has something that rhymes with Dansmogrification. It basically allows you to pick your characters look for an absolute pittance.

 

Correct this oversight please (and I don't mean a 30% discount, it's still outrageous). You have a sterile environment that we can't interact with. Every cool little area in the game is instanced, we don't have chat bubbles...

 

For the love of god, at least let us look how we want. I'd threaten to unsubscribe, but that horse looks pretty dead, I don't see much sense in beating it.

 

Lol - I love this guy!

 

Quoted for truth!

[MWidowmaker]

ripping and replacing mods should have a cost of 0

essentialy it is all about aesthetics when 1.3 hits, why should everyone have to pay an obscene amount of money to look the way they want.

i totally agree 30% reduction is far far too little

 

the best system i have ever seen for swapping appearances was in DCUO, you just chose a slot and anything you have ever worn graphics wise, you get to select, and it costed nothing

[InnerPieces]

In answer to the subject line: Credit sink. Removing credits from the economy.

 

It's that simple.

[Akomo]

Sorry mate but im having ZERO issues with credits and i dont even sell anything to other players.I do actually play the game and thats good enough for me.

 

I suggest you save some credits instead of buying gear for instant gratification.

 

You can make about one million credits every three days.One week if your casual about it.

 

P.S. Thats with a guild.Yes playing with other people is a new concept to some , but it works!

Edited May 31, 2012 by Akomo

[Akomo]

ripping and replacing mods should have a cost of 0

essentialy it is all about aesthetics when 1.3 hits, why should everyone have to pay an obscene amount of money to look the way they want.

i totally agree 30% reduction is far far too little

 

the best system i have ever seen for swapping appearances was in DCUO, you just chose a slot and anything you have ever worn graphics wise, you get to select, and it costed nothing

 

And how many are playing DCUO now? Forget it.You want to have your own set and unique look , earn it and pay for it.

[SpazCats]

And how many are playing DCUO now? Forget it.You want to have your own set and unique look , earn it and pay for it.

 

And how many are playing WoW, LOTRO and Rift now? Where there is a cheap way to change appearance.

[ACLucius]

There ARE MANY, MANY money sinks already in the game. NO ONE here is arguing that we don't need some money sinks. Just that being able to change your appearance is too expensive for many people.

 

Does being able to easily and cheaply change your appearance affect the in-game economies in games like Rift, WoW and LOTRO?

 

****Nope, it does not.****

 

So I'm not sure why people keep trying to say that making changes to your appearance will wreck the in-game economy.

 

Then perhaps you are looking at it the wrong way?

 

Please look at the wording and how it reads.

 

]Does being able to easily and cheaply change your appearance affect the in-game economies in games like Rift, WoW and LOTRO?

 

The cost behind mods is not to charge you to change your appearance. It is a sink to take money out of the game through a commonly used feature. Does being able to move around the planets quickly affect the in-game economies of those same games? So why are we charged to use a speeder to go around planets? Why are we given a "fuel" cost for travel between planets? By putting in a money sink which pretty much everyone will use, they have ensured that inflation will stay very low. It is the same idea as behind any kind of auction house that has a "tax" to it. We are being charged to exchange items and money between each other without bringing any money into the game.

 

As for legacy, those are one time sinks. We will not used them multiple times per character, we will not pay for them many times over. Single sinks are not enough, otherwise they would just charge us for skills and legacy and have everything else be free. A consistent sink such as stripping mods guarantees that most, if not all, people will use it and quite often, meaning it will take a lot of money out of the game many times over.

 

What do you do when you want a piece of gear that is crafted? You either save up the money to get it or you take the time necessary to make it yourself. It is the same idea behind stripping mods for a certain appearance.

[SpazCats]

Then perhaps you are looking at it the wrong way?

 

Please look at the wording and how it reads.

 

The cost behind mods is not to charge you to change your appearance. It is a sink to take money out of the game through a commonly used feature. Does being able to move around the planets quickly affect the in-game economies of those same games? So why are we charged to use a speeder to go around planets? Why are we given a "fuel" cost for travel between planets? By putting in a money sink which pretty much everyone will use, they have ensured that inflation will stay very low. It is the same idea as behind any kind of auction house that has a "tax" to it. We are being charged to exchange items and money between each other without bringing any money into the game.

 

As for legacy, those are one time sinks. We will not used them multiple times per character, we will not pay for them many times over. Single sinks are not enough, otherwise they would just charge us for skills and legacy and have everything else be free. A consistent sink such as stripping mods guarantees that most, if not all, people will use it and quite often, meaning it will take a lot of money out of the game many times over.

 

What do you do when you want a piece of gear that is crafted? You either save up the money to get it or you take the time necessary to make it yourself. It is the same idea behind stripping mods for a certain appearance.

 

I am not looking at it the wrong way.

 

The issue is the money sink is way too much for changing outfits, and is not in-line with other regular use money sinks such as, as you noted, paying fuel to travel to planets, paying to travel by speeder and using the GTN.

 

Travelling around SWTOR and selling on the GTN is pretty cheap actually. One can't even compare that with the cost to change an outfit currently.

 

As I noted before, other major games, such as WoW, LOTRO and Rift charge nothing to next to nothing to change outfits, and their in-game economy is fine. So the argument that this needs to be a BIG money sink doesn't really hold water.

 

So bottom line;

I do not mind being charged a SMALL amount (on the same scale as other regular use items, such as travel and GTN use) for changing outfits. But the current charge (even the reduced charge coming in 1.3) is ridiculously expensive.

[ACLucius]

I am not looking at it the wrong way.

 

The issue is the money sink is way too much for changing outfits, and is not in-line with other regular use money sinks such as, as you noted, paying fuel to travel to planets, paying to travel by speeder and using the GTN.

 

Travelling around SWTOR and selling on the GTN is pretty cheap actually. One can't even compare that with the cost to change an outfit currently.

 

As I noted before, other major games, such as WoW, LOTRO and Rift charge nothing to next to nothing to change outfits, and their in-game economy is fine. So the argument that this needs to be a BIG money sink doesn't really hold water.

 

So bottom line;

I do not mind being charged a SMALL amount (on the same scale as other regular use items, such as travel and GTN use) for changing outfits. But the current charge (even the reduced charge coming in 1.3) is ridiculously expensive.

 

Yet they have seen inflation since they initially released, correct? However fine it may be, the fact is all games face inflation over time. The larger the gross money sink that is seen, the slower inflation will work. Saying the price is too expensive because it is 120k is meaningless simply because any player at the level it costs that can bring that much money into the economy on any given day, plus some. It's simple math when you look at it. Ilum and Black Hole can, alone, bring you well over 120k and take less than 1 hour to do both sets, minus the heroics.

 

You are right, comparing the stripping fee to travel costs unreasonable, but not because mod fees are too expensive. It's more along the lines that travel fees are too cheap. If you were able to strip all of your mods out for 1k total, you wouldn't blink at that. If it was 10k, you probably still would just laugh at it. 120k though makes it so it takes a big chunk out of you pocket, and that is what is always needed. It is because of this that I brought those in specifically; because they are continuous sinks and don't even cost enough to make you think about using them.

 

Right now, the only big continuous sink we have is mod stripping. As said before, one time fees do not count as much as a sink because they only take so much out and then do nothing else. You could spend 200k on skills, it will still only take out 200k. Stripping mods multiple times though, that takes 120k out each time. Hell, now it will only be taking out ~84k with 1.3, and that is a hell of a discount when you look at it.

 

It is not too expensive as it is, and if anything I feel it is becoming too cheap, and having 200k on hand at any time, I am far from being a rich person myself. However, if people want to be changing outfits so much, perhaps this is just a way of Bioware saying "get more Rakata gear and strip the mods so all of your outfits have the mods in them already." Though I suppose that would make only too much sense for some people to use (not directed at you, by the way).

 

Perhaps this is just one of those conversations where neither of us can convince the other, and we just have to agree to disagree? We probably have completely different experiences with game economies, mine obviously being the ones that were screwed because of a lack of sinks. I'd still rather have too many sinks than not enough.

[SpazCats]

Perhaps this is just one of those conversations where neither of us can convince the other, and we just have to agree to disagree? We probably have completely different experiences with game economies, mine obviously being the ones that were screwed because of a lack of sinks. I'd still rather have too many sinks than not enough.

 

hehe, this is QFT.

 

The economies in, say WoW, for example became more inflated as time went on because it was just plain easy to make more money from questing (IMO), since the questing rewards went way up, plus people could solo old raids, etc. I don't think the economies became more inflated because not enough was charged to allow people to change their outfits.

 

I really just would like to be able to change outfits on a whim, like I do in other games. I have my DPS outfit and my heal outfit, and then when winter hits, sometimes I like to get an outfit that looks warmer, and summer, show more skin, etc.

 

I don't even roleplay.. I just like to, well, enjoy my character, and make her my own creation. I can't do this now... I don't play enough to pay that many credits if I changed outfits that often, and I don't want to grind credits just so I can change an outfit. /sigh

 

Anyway, I appreciated your well thought out post though.

Edited June 1, 2012 by SpazCats

[Deewe]

I think the problem here is that when BW were creating this particular money sink, they only considered it in terms of min/maxers so it would effectively be an infrequent cost for players.

Quite so they are certainly not aiming at casual gamer with this nor legacy unlocks prohibitive costs.

[Deewe]

Yet they have seen inflation since they initially released, correct? However fine it may be, the fact is all games face inflation over time. The larger the gross money sink that is seen, the slower inflation will work. Saying the price is too expensive because it is 120k is meaningless simply because any player at the level it costs that can bring that much money into the economy on any given day, plus some. It's simple math when you look at it. Ilum and Black Hole can, alone, bring you well over 120k and take less than 1 hour to do both sets, minus the heroics.

 

You are right, comparing the stripping fee to travel costs unreasonable, but not because mod fees are too expensive. It's more along the lines that travel fees are too cheap. If you were able to strip all of your mods out for 1k total, you wouldn't blink at that. If it was 10k, you probably still would just laugh at it. 120k though makes it so it takes a big chunk out of you pocket, and that is what is always needed. It is because of this that I brought those in specifically; because they are continuous sinks and don't even cost enough to make you think about using them.

 

Right now, the only big continuous sink we have is mod stripping. As said before, one time fees do not count as much as a sink because they only take so much out and then do nothing else. You could spend 200k on skills, it will still only take out 200k. Stripping mods multiple times though, that takes 120k out each time. Hell, now it will only be taking out ~84k with 1.3, and that is a hell of a discount when you look at it.

 

It is not too expensive as it is, and if anything I feel it is becoming too cheap, and having 200k on hand at any time, I am far from being a rich person myself. However, if people want to be changing outfits so much, perhaps this is just a way of Bioware saying "get more Rakata gear and strip the mods so all of your outfits have the mods in them already." Though I suppose that would make only too much sense for some people to use (not directed at you, by the way).

 

Perhaps this is just one of those conversations where neither of us can convince the other, and we just have to agree to disagree? We probably have completely different experiences with game economies, mine obviously being the ones that were screwed because of a lack of sinks. I'd still rather have too many sinks than not enough.

There's one issue though the costs prevents more casual players to use and re-use the system and look cool.

 

Also instead of buying new gear from the crafters to try out new outfits with the mods money sink the players are sending their credits to the system so not encouraging the crafters as much as they could.

[SpazCats]

There's one issue though the costs prevents more casual players to use and re-use the system and look cool.

 

Also instead of buying new gear from the crafters to try out new outfits with the mods money sink the players are sending their credits to the system so not encouraging the crafters as much as they could.

 

THIS IS COMPLETELY TRUE FOR ME!

 

Well, at least the first part I have bought a few outfits from crafters because I liked the look of the piece, so some crafters benefitted from me at least.

 

But I have never even used those outfits because the cost is too much to switch my mods.

[VulcanLogic]

C) toon customization is good for the game. The more unique your toon looks, the more effort you've put into customizing it, the more you get attached to it. This is what makes people resub. That's really good for company profits.

 

Exactly.

[Deewe]

But I have never even used those outfits because the cost is too much to switch my mods.

That's effectively the main issue.

 

I'd top that with the less than ideal mods UI.

[Twotun]

Bioware Ferrari Salesman: Excellent choice sir, I will have it brought right out

Me: Umm... what color is that exactly... is it green?

BFS: Kind of sir, the boys in design are calling it "Post Nasal Drip".

^^This