For some reason we wonder why BioWare doesn't take us seriously?

[ProfessorWalsh]

This is a post here being made in an attempt to appeal to the wisdom of all PVP players of Star Wars: The Old Republic who post in this forum. We constantly beseech help from BioWare for a better PVP experience. We constantly grow angry when they fail to respond and/or fail to deliver that which we demanded.

 

Sadly... There is a reason why that is and it is our own fault.

 

Many of you know me...

 

I'm Professor Walsh, I'm a critic. It was, for a long time, literally my job to heckle BioWare. I was, and still am, one of their biggest critics. As a critic though I had standards and I had a code of conduct that I strictly adhered to.

 

I never posted anything when I could not explain my stance with as much factual information as possible. Was I always perfect? No. However I was never willing to outright lie to create controversy even though my articles were all about controversial topics.

 

I was (and still am) a game designer, as such I had a unique understanding of what was being done. My numerous predictions were always spot on and never once was one of my standing predictions incorrect. I called everything from the faction imbalance, to the advanced classes, right down to the content that we would see in trailers for this game. I always gave my reasoning for such.

 

That is also why, despite being a harsh critic, I was allowed multiple interviews with members of BioWare's dev team as part of the reporting coverage I did for Ask A Jedi.

 

Many people, on here, accuse BioWare of taking any criticism personally and claim that they simply brush things under the rug or that they ignore what is said. I'm living proof that they handle criticism very well actually. The problem is the many people making those accusations don't actually criticize.

 

What this has to do with PVP is this...

 

Day in and day out I see lies. Constant lies. Constant lies that are backing specific and very obvious agendas. BioWare is right to ignore such things. Not only is BioWare right to ignore them but I don't blame them if they simply feel they can't trust feedback from this forum anymore.

 

Why?

 

How about people who claimed that Sentinels and Marauders could hit "10k damage on a single Master Strike." for example?

 

What about claims like, "We jumped this Marauder 5 to 1 and couldn't kill him before he killed one of us! I mean, sure we didn't use any CC, but that is because players don't know how to CC in this game! The Marauder should be nerfed because players haven't learned how to CC them!"

 

(Also yes, that is an actual summary of an actual post in this forum... I make no exaggeration here.)

 

The list goes on and on and it isn't just about Marauders and Sentinels, it is about the Expertise raise in general, it is about the Shadow and the Assassin Tank variants. It is about X ability doing Y damage that it can't possibly do. It is really sad to look at.

 

Look guys, if we want BioWare to pay any attention to this forum what so ever we need to organize and stop trying to shovel copious amounts of bovine dung in order to try to manipulate the devs into submitting to our personal demands.

 

If, for example, you find it difficult to kite melee classes in this game... Then say:

 

"I, and apparently others, have been having a difficult time kiting X class." Then give an explanation that is as factual as possible regarding the circumstances that you were encountering.

 

Don't post:

 

"X class can't be kited!" Followed by a long explanation of how this class cannot be kited, which inevitably will be replied to by people of that class and of other classes who are saying how they can be kited. The words: Can't, Never, and Always should not be used.

 

If, for example, you are having a difficult time healing your team mates and you cannot get a guard, say:

 

"I, and others, are having a difficult time performing our roles as healers in PVP due to the fact that damage comes in very quickly. There are few players who play Tanks on my, and others, servers and they often do not apply guard to us. Perhaps BioWare could add some quality of life improvement to help with this issue."

 

Make sure you identify the problem accurately. In the above example, the issue isn't the healer being unable to heal, it is that they lack a Guard to help them survive longer and thus give them enough time to heal through the damage they are receiving.

 

Also consider variables, if they reduced damage how silly would it get if someone without a Guard could survive without needing one? Why would that generate an incentive for anyone to play a Tank? Their role wouldn't be needed. Alternatively how powerful would a Tank and Healer combination become under the circumstances where a Healer can survive DPS attacks without one?

 

All I am asking for is for us to show some restraint, to be honest, and to explain the issues as they are rather than rely on hyperbole and sensationalism.

 

Thank you.

[Derian]

I agree. Back in closed beta, and certainly in the "private" closed beta groups Georg mentioned existed, they were more in your face, and asked you to explain your position and the devs explained theirs with raw logic. Now that it's launch, they have taken a less active role, as Georg mentioned that they would.

 

Though from everything I see they welcome very harsh criticism even if it does't seem that way.

[Stevlol]

Very well said. +1

[BlastingGravy]

Excellent post, but to quote Penny Arcade: "I think you're assuming a level of humanity in your target audience that frankly doesn't exist."

[PloGreen]

Critics are just other people with opinions. Anyone can call themselves a critic it doesn't make your opinion any more valid than the next guy, no offense.

 

Still an attempt to be positive should be commended I suppose.

Edited May 26, 2012 by PloGreen

[wolfmith]

My hero... sniff... :') Stick this plz

 

I'm one of many who've been complaining about full healing spec sorcs survivability but I don't see myself as a pointless complainer. I've stated my reasons and I just think a healer shouldn't be countered (and killed) with just 1 player on him, which happens if the player knows what he's doing and has certain class. The problem is, we see a statement from their side, saying we have no problem at all and we just need to learn to play ? They don't even bother to come to huge threats about it, proving us wrong... They just base on their beloved metrics and if they're fine, everything is fine...

 

The community would love to discuss some issues with Devs, but we just have a threat to ask about absolutely everything and get picked 6, 7 questions from hundreds of posts... Anyway, they said they were going to improve it... (soon) I'm waiting to see what they're going to do

[Lunez]

This is just so true. I've often toiled over the idea of clicking the report button and typing in for the reason, "This person is complaining for not other reason than to complain, please close this thread so that we may make room for more important topics of discussion."

 

Unfortunately, that would make me a nazi that hates freedom of speech, but where do we draw the line between freedom of speech and freedom of stupidity? We should be able to give posters a rank system where if they drop below a certain rank due to repetitive complaining, exaggerating, lying, or general nonsense, then they lose their ability to create new threads until their rank points increase by our community, by responding with insightful, meaningful responses.

 

EDIT: Maybe as a community, its important for us to start policing ourselves and discouraging people from posting repetitive garbage all the time?

Edited May 26, 2012 by Lunez

[ProfessorWalsh]

Critics are just other people with opinions. Anyone can call themselves a critic it doesn't make your opinion any more valid than the next guy, no offense.

 

Still an attempt to be positive should be commended I suppose.

 

I'll not say that a critic's opinion is more valid but often times it can be more accurate or more educated depending on the background of the individual critic.

 

Take me, for example... My background in game design revolved mostly around system design and storytelling. I specialized in the adaptation of third party properties. My secondary background was as public relations and investor relations.

 

So in areas containing:

 

Adaptation of third party properties.

System design implementation.

Public relations issues such as game promotion and hype.

 

I don't feel my opinion is more valid but it is more educated than many.

[ProfessorWalsh]

My hero... sniff... :') Stick this plz

 

I'm one of many who've been complaining about full healing spec sorcs survivability but I don't see myself as a pointless complainer. I've stated my reasons and I just think a healer shouldn't be countered (and killed) with just 1 player on him, which happens if the player knows what he's doing and has certain class. The problem is, we see a statement from their side, saying we have no problem at all and we just need to learn to play ?

 

I wouldn't say that you are a complainer. I will say that I disagree (strongly) that a Healer shouldn't be countered (and killed) with just one player on him.

 

The reason I say this is both simple and complicated:

 

That reduces the need for Tanks and increases the need for DPS.

 

I touched on this in the main post a little but I'll explain as best I can...

 

In system design you have to consider a number of variables. One of those variables is "incentive" as in "incentive to play X role in PVP."

 

When you make a Healer require two DPS (or even one DPS and one Tank) to take down you create less incentive for players to select the Tank role. Why? Well in that scenario Tanks aren't needed. They are a nice addition, but you don't need one, and another Healer would be all-around better.

 

Alternatively another DPS on your team is more valuable than a Tank as you need more than one DPS to take down an enemy Healer. A Tank can help the DPS kill the enemy Healers but in the end another DPS can do that job even better. Thus this creates more incentive for more DPS.

 

This is something (I believe) you haven't considered. Mainly the far reaching impact of allowing Healers to overheal a lone DPS. In World of Warcraft, where I believe most of the people making this complaint have played the most, this made sense as Tanks in that game were fully based on personal survivability. Tanks in TOR however are based in PVP on their ability to mitigate incoming damage for the Healers and the DPS classes on their team.

 

Unfortunately, if people would just adapt and play Tanks more often and Guard the Healer while taunting those attacking the healer (Taunts have an effect in TOR PVP after all.) the quality of life for Healers would improve considerably.

 

The main reason the 1.2 changes hurt Healers so badly, I feel, is mostly a psychological one. They were used to being the most powerful and most important class in the game. They were reduced to a more balanced level and have to (now) not only depend on others (Tanks) but also be afraid of others (DPS) which previously they did not as they were better than Tanks at Tanking and they were powerful enough alone to require multiple DPS classes to take down with any degree of alacrity.

 

Now, I know most of this post seems off-topic but it really isn't.

 

You see why your criticism is more valid than someone who simply complains with preposterous hyperbole is because you use an important terminology.

 

"I've stated my reasons and I just think a healer shouldn't be countered (and killed) with just 1 player on him, which happens if the player knows what he's doing and has certain class."

 

The term "I just think" is well used. Stating, "A healer should never be able to be taken down 1 on 1!" uses the naughty word of "never" in a context that is incorrect. There are some places where the word "never" is acceptable, but clearly that is not one of them.

 

My personal opinion is one that a paper, rock, scissors approach is fine.

 

DPS beats Healer.

Healer beats Tank.

Tank beats DPS.

 

By "beat" I don't always mean "kill" but I do mean if they are playing their role. If a DPS's job is to kill the Healer, they will be defeated by a competent Tank who is Guarding and Taunting for the Healer. A Healer will out heal a Tank and keep a DPS alive long enough to kill an enemy Healer even if the enemy Healer has a Tank. A DPS will kill a Healer in a one on one situation.

[xxdragonragexx]

The simple fact is that the PvP in swtor isn't getting any praises and it isn't getting any money. People aren't subscribing to pay $15 a month to play swtor pvp. So the pvp isn't getting any content or attention. Balancing classes isn't what Bioware wants. They want to create FOTM classes so people will reroll and create alts. That's their business plan in pve and pvp. It is failing hard.

[Luciferhawke]

who is we?

[easeyway]

Good post, sadly it has become a trend to go onto this forum and "completely blind" just whine if things aren't 100% satisfying to one self. Now, for an MMO to evolve, they need constructive feedback, speaks for itself. I've made 2 post myself asking people to think about how they complain and what they complain about, because "constructive" is far from what's going on in this forum unfortunately.

 

Bioware is far from doing a bad job, but it's not surprising at all that they haven't made many changes in accordance to this forum thread. (thank god they haven't).

 

I enjoy pvp in this SWTOR, and i would like to urge people to take a step back, and consider "what exactly is going on here?" before they come in here and make a thread that's not constructive for anyone. let alone themselves.

[xxdragonragexx]

Actually, I think the OP doesn't know anything about how to make the game more fun.

 

It is because he is talking about balance changes. Balance doesn't make a game fun. A MMO will have patches containing buffs and nerfs which create imbalances. Players don't want balance. They want their class to receive buffs per patch just to feel they are not neglected. So balance is just an illusion. A company's job isn't to create balance, it is to create a gameplay where all classes are viable and nerf all classes that makes people ragequit then unsub like stunlocking operatives during January.

 

Creating a fun game involves creating fun maps and fun gameplay. Bioware has created an unfun gameplay for their players.

 

1 - Climbing to warhero isn't fun in this game. You get matched with war hero players while you have recruit gear. The gear gap makes it unfun. Warhammer solved this by creating a PvE stat instead of a pvp stat to lessen the gear gap by decreasing stat inflation. WoW solved this by making Alterac Valley a map to farm honor points. When there are 40+ players fighting, gear gap isn't noticeable. Plus the mobs are the true enemies and not the players. SWTOR or Bioware FAILED TO SOLVE THIS.

 

2. Fun PvP MAPS - this game doesn't have fun warzone maps. They are too zergy and small. Most of the warzones are boring. Even huttball which I used to love is gradually becoming a bore. They need maps that are fun to play that people will enjoy even after playing it for 1 month on a daily basis. Lots of games like league of legends, fps games, world of warcraft, warhammer and etc was able to do this. BIOWARE HAS FAILED TO DELIVER THIS. Unfortunately, it takes like 3 months even with lots of resources to create 1 warzone map. Bioware has lots of things to add like server xfer, ranked wz, cross server queues, and etc. They are running low on resources too. So bioware is in a deep hole right now.

 

 

For Bioware to make pvp fun in this game, they need to stay away from balance changes and create fun gameplay plus fun maps.

Edited May 27, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[Z-ToXiN]

Nice to see some well thought out posts.

 

In the end, there is way too much whining, especially about balance on these PVP forums. I love the PVP, and the bigger issues for me in terms of PVP are the lack of rateds (and cross server rateds when they do come), dwindling server populations, as well as horrible PUGs (which BW can do nothing about sadly)...

 

In regards to the above poster, I agree fun gameplay is more important than balance. In the end, good balance isn't game SWTOR PVP into a much greater game. As long as things aren't horrible unbalanced and gameplay is fun, that is what I care about.

 

In terms of the example with tanks and healers: My experience in playing tanks is that if Im with a competent healer, I can stick with them and protect them and the results are amazing. On the other hand, trying to take down a good healer can often be hard, especially if they are good at re-healing themselves or are well guarded.

 

In terms of the gear grind; i dont think its too bad. Yes, you get destroyed at first. But you can easily get full BM in two weeks (and much quicker if youre really into it) and once you have mostly BM, it's not that big of an issue. gouing against WH. If you want an extra advantage, then its a long and ardorous grind to WH. But if you play mainly for fun, then WH gear is just a nice extra reward. The way I approached it was that it was kind of a grind to BM, but after Ive got it I'll just play for fun and to get better skill wise, the WH gear every once in a while is just a nice bonus.

 

In the end, I would say that there is way too much attention paid to class balance than it is worth.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Z-ToXiN

[wolfmith]

Everything you said

 

I liked to read all. As I have stated in my post around this forum, our main problem is that we depend in other roles to have a good pleasant experience... All the good tanks I know (that don't spec tank and equip dps) don't play anymore... If I have another healer in my premade and we both focus in healing me while I kite melees, I still die, but it takes more time... taking several 4k+ hits from melees while they keep us constantly slowed, can jump back when knocked back, have several ways to interrupt isn't a good experience... I'm going to rephrase my sentence: I think () a healer should be able to last more time when focused by a good player... And I've seen good ideas to improve that, and I've given my ideas as well... but when they come state that we are perfectly fine and need to learn how to use the class.......

 

As things are atm, I think Op healers need a little nerf, BH needs a little buff (I don't know the class that well) and Sorcs need some changes to either allow us to cast something better while we're on the move, or allow us to cast something without the risk of being interrupted all the time....

 

It's good to discuss this with someone that just doesn't come state L2P and show us good scores with vs mediocre teams This is the kind of discussion I'd love to have with devs, see their reasons, give my arguments back, basically a dialog and not feeling we're talking to a black hole.... All the information flows to them and little is given to us....

[xxdragonragexx]

In terms of the gear grind; i dont think its too bad. Yes, you get destroyed at first. But you can easily get full BM in two weeks (and much quicker if youre really into it) and once you have mostly BM, it's not that big of an issue. gouing against WH. If you want an extra advantage, then its a long and ardorous grind to WH. But if you play mainly for fun, then WH gear is just a nice extra reward. The way I approached it was that it was kind of a grind to BM, but after Ive got it I'll just play for fun and to get better skill wise, the WH gear every once in a while is just a nice bonus.

 

It isn't that bad but anything that frustrates players makes them unsub or quit. I even think that getting full BM gear is too easy. It is just that the journey to full BM gear is not fun. There will be people that will not go through that type of frustration even if the gear grind in this game is very casual friendly. While the gear gap isn't that big IN TIME, there will still be players who will not go through the process no matter how casual friendly it is especially with the "GIVE ME EVERYTHING NOW CROWD" that swtor has.

[Digtahk]

I got my Sniper to lvl 50 Val Rank 49 last Sunday, by Thursday this week I have a full set of BM gear and 2 WH pieces. My valor rank was 56 by the time I was full equipped in BM....I do no believe this to be an unacceptable grind.

 

OP: You points in the first part of your post are largely true, however the latter half of your post doesn't back it up, your healer example is perfect example of what is wrong with most of the posts on these forums it provides no evidence to support the claim that healers are ineffectual, states a posters opinion as fact and makes absolutely no reference to the objective based pvp being played. Whilst healers may argue they can't be effective if you ask any solo queuing DPS (The majority of players in PVP) whether they would rather end up in a team with zero healers or 2 healers all else being equal I imagine they would vote for former (this is unproven however but would be a better way to gage the effectiveness of healers that claiming you can't heal without a guard)

 

In summary most posts contain 1 or more of the following errors:

 

1) State opinion as a fact

2) Threat to quit the game or alluding to other players leaving because of perceived problem

3) Speak on behalf of others to establish a consensus which in reality doesn't exist ("All good pvp players know Operatives are OP" etc)

4) Make little or no reference to the style of pvp being played and how that is unbalanced by the perceived issue (Hint: there is no arena here, all pvp is objective based)

5) Untruthful or fabricated claims that can easily be discredited by anyone with access to pvp data (i.e BW)

6) Claims to superior knowledge of pvp and balance mechanics due to vast unproven pvp experience and skill from having been massively successful in other MMOs

 

BW probably use these boards as a gauge of what areas of PVP are causing frustration and then hopefully have some form of analytics tool or metrics package which enable them to analyse real pvp data to see whether these issues are real or just perceived.

[nemdra]

The simple fact is that the PvP in swtor isn't getting any praises and it isn't getting any money. People aren't subscribing to pay $15 a month to play swtor pvp. So the pvp isn't getting any content or attention. Balancing classes isn't what Bioware wants. They want to create FOTM classes so people will reroll and create alts. That's their business plan in pve and pvp. It is failing hard.

 

one could answer this in a nice way, like the prof. but i wont : D,

 

if u mister XxDRAGONRAGE!11111111111Xx can figure that much out, guess what bioware can. u really think something that obvious could be missed by an entire company...? Do you think that is a worthwhile agenda to follow for bioware? After all even you figured it would be a doomed plan.

 

Now the thing is, even though YOU are wrong, what i mean by that is: you THINK, which is open for debate, that bioware balances classes the way you just described, which with a wider view of class understanding, is just WRONG <-- can't stress that enough, there are too many folks like you beLIEving to be the only entity capable of understanding.. which is an understandable error, the gameplay of swtor might even encourage. after all they want you to feel mighty ingame.

 

let me give an example.

 

lots of people as it seems dont like to face the skillset of a marauder. probably the worst encounter for a jedi/commando-heal, which has any "defensive' ability currently on cd. one might probably still be able to kite them, but it doesn't feel as if you accomplished something, yet as a gunslinger its a blast facing a marauder, a simple root and a choke into hunker down, or using your anti cc ability completely wrecks them... the gunslinger has other counters and so forth - same gunslinger getting attacked by a sith assasin will have a hard time time.

 

yet thats what you don't want to understand. what you want is rock vs rock vs rock, cause then its balanced right? technically yes but you wouldn't play that game. i can create a such balanced game in a second.

 

imagine you have 10 coins,so does the other player, each of you simultaneously take a coin. game ends when both have no coins. you wouldn't play that.

 

and thats not even the point, you are not alone in a wz. its team vs team. but then again ofc MISTER XXXXxXXxX-FUS ROH DAAA DRAGOOOONRAGE !!!!11111111111oneone XXXXxxxxxxxx is the only person he is capable to understand~, so he ofc is the only person who knows whats going on so it HAS to be imbalance if he loses,

well you do not know what you do not know, simply put. then someone comes along and tells you whats wrong. and if hes right your ego gets hurt, because no one but you knows whats going on, so you lash out at him/her OR you focus your butthurtness onto the developer(because that one guy is essentially wrong, because "input any stupid situational argument" and thus isn't woth your time), why? because it's imbalanced? NO because u fail to be humble, to learn, to understand..

 

anyway, back to topic,

 

pvp-balance is no rocketscience, skill ideas and what not are more a question of debate than equations, coding those skills, crunching the numbers may not be everyones business but are by far the most balanced thing there can be in an mmo, unless ofc missing something like in the wrong way stacking debuffs : p...

 

even if there are imbalances out there they are not gamebreaking. the problem is the amount of people unwilling/able to get and adapt to the balance swtor gives us. which in seemingly large numbers, then becomes biowares problem.

 

they can't make a game for elementary school, if target audience goes to kindergarten..~

AND i like to see it so: thats why pvp doesn't get any content beside Xserver pvp, so you XxXXXXxDRAAAGOOONRAAAAAAAAAGEXxxxxxxxx have more time to learn how to play

 

 

tl;dr xxdragonragexx's post is a great example of whats wrong with the game, not what he wrote, but why he wrote it..

Edited May 27, 2012 by nemdra

[amnie]

The simple fact is that the PvP in swtor isn't getting any praises and it isn't getting any money. People aren't subscribing to pay $15 a month to play swtor pvp. So the pvp isn't getting any content or attention. Balancing classes isn't what Bioware wants. They want to create FOTM classes so people will reroll and create alts. That's their business plan in pve and pvp. It is failing hard.

 

excuse my bluntless, but this is ridiculous.

 

that's just like saying 'space combat isn't getting any attention because people don't pay $15 a month to play space combat' or.. in essense that people aren't playing this game to do pve either (yes, I've seen the topics about people demanding a raise in pvp-exp so they wouldn't have to do any pve at all)

 

and I personally pity all those people who rerolled a marauder, because daaaamn have I seen a lot of really bad marauders lately (then again, I play a scoundrel, so what do I know, aparently we are the least loved class in game )

[captindoom]

The biggest balance issue in SWTOR is the person pushing the keys on the keyboard

[nemdra]

The biggest balance issue in SWTOR is the person pushing the keys on the keyboard

 

well that could have saved me some time : p

[Annex]

The main reason the 1.2 changes hurt Healers so badly, I feel, is mostly a psychological one. They were used to being the most powerful and most important class in the game. They were reduced to a more balanced level and have to (now) not only depend on others (Tanks) but also be afraid of others (DPS) which previously they did not as they were better than Tanks at Tanking and they were powerful enough alone to require multiple DPS classes to take down with any degree of alacrity.

 

You do realise the hypocracy of this in the context of this thread right? This is your agenda, you are pushing it right here.

 

My opposing belief is that the changes made in 1.2 have hurt PvP healing for the following reasons:

 

 

• Across the board TTK changes reduced reaction time for healers and reduced the effectiveness of non instant casts.
  
• Across the board TTK changes reduced skills level for DPS to perform (now spike > a long term rotation / interupts)
  
• For sorcs/sages specifically these changes are exaccerbated due to the nerf to DI cast time (which magnifies both of the above issues)
  

 

Obviously the class hurt the most by these changes is sorc/sage healers as they are the class with the most long term potential healing output (ie better in long fights) and the least mobile.

 

Apologies but the devs posting "L2P" responses to random points (eg suggesting resource management is the main nerf to sorc/sage) does not help. It simply comes across that the dev team do not understand their own game.

[Easpeak]

For some reason I don't take Walsh very seriously, probably because posts like:

 

Why the operative nerf was OK

Story wise they actually are essentially human cops with no power at all and they generally should fear Force Users.

 

or

 

Why it's OK for melee to faceroll ranged

If the (combat) balance is shifted to favor melee classes until they can achieve real balance that is fine. As long as the balance doesn't favor ranged classes because that has all of the problems of favoring melee and it breaks from the IP.

 

or

 

some more goodness

All that aside, I can't believe you're actually advocating for the saber users to dominate the game. Do you WANT a game where there are nothing but knights and warriors?

It is Star Wars.

 

I want a game that resembles Star Wars. I want a game where a Bounty Hunter killing a Jedi is an actual accomplishment. I want a game where a Trooper killing a Sith is an uncommon occurrence. I want a game that resembles Star Wars.

 

It just doesn't seem to end

I wouldn't mind a buff to trauma myself. (The Sentinel/Marauder ability.)

I'd prefer if trauma made the target 100% unable to be healed for 5-10 seconds. Increase the CD on trauma and it would be fine that way.

 

 

There are more examples if you want to dig into, these were just some that I remembered. So from what I've seen is that he has been a strong advocate for sentinels (or Jedi in general) from the start and just doesn't want his class being looked at now that he feels it's in a "good place".

 

Walsh, I like how you know your SW lore and all that good stuff, I mean I'm a SW fan but I do not even come close in that area, but your posts are biased whenever it comes to PvP so I would not give out community advice to others on the PvP board.

 

EDIT: I agree with Annex

Edited May 27, 2012 by Easpeak

[Solates]

Actually, I think the OP doesn't know anything about how to make the game more fun.

 

It is because he is talking about balance changes. Balance doesn't make a game fun. A MMO will have patches containing buffs and nerfs which create imbalances. Players don't want balance. They want their class to receive buffs per patch just to feel they are not neglected. So balance is just an illusion. A company's job isn't to create balance, it is to create a gameplay where all classes are viable and nerf all classes that makes people ragequit then unsub like stunlocking operatives during January.

 

Creating a fun game involves creating fun maps and fun gameplay. Bioware has created an unfun gameplay for their players.

 

1 - Climbing to warhero isn't fun in this game. You get matched with war hero players while you have recruit gear. The gear gap makes it unfun. Warhammer solved this by creating a PvE stat instead of a pvp stat to lessen the gear gap by decreasing stat inflation. WoW solved this by making Alterac Valley a map to farm honor points. When there are 40+ players fighting, gear gap isn't noticeable. Plus the mobs are the true enemies and not the players. SWTOR or Bioware FAILED TO SOLVE THIS.

 

2. Fun PvP MAPS - this game doesn't have fun warzone maps. They are too zergy and small. Most of the warzones are boring. Even huttball which I used to love is gradually becoming a bore. They need maps that are fun to play that people will enjoy even after playing it for 1 month on a daily basis. Lots of games like league of legends, fps games, world of warcraft, warhammer and etc was able to do this. BIOWARE HAS FAILED TO DELIVER THIS. Unfortunately, it takes like 3 months even with lots of resources to create 1 warzone map. Bioware has lots of things to add like server xfer, ranked wz, cross server queues, and etc. They are running low on resources too. So bioware is in a deep hole right now.

 

 

For Bioware to make pvp fun in this game, they need to stay away from balance changes and create fun gameplay plus fun maps.

 

Actually I had a scoundrel pre 1.1 and it was fine. I rarely got above 300k per match. It was timed and spaced really and every scrapper/concealment spec was running to get back in stealth, so we could do it again. Out of stealth we got destroyed, and felt that we should have. Now? You see operatives running around out of stealth doing the circle of death with their instants with instant animation attacks.

Also I will note that after 1.1 suddenly there was complaints of "unkillable" healers and OP classes. Predator/prey situation destroyed.

The predator got destroyed and its chosen prey blossommed. Take todays pvp for example. 3-4 hybrid healers running around, 0 chance to take any of them out.

 

And there has never been any proof of these "teams" of operatives...and even if they were there are plenty of classes out there that would be OP in a full team of 8.

 

Commandos/bounty hunters come to mind. 6 dps, 2 heals someone dying every 3s.

HECK, 8 marauders/sentinels we almost have this almost every WZ.

 

The point is you have to think of pvp in terms of pools of resources.

Damage vs Hitpoints

Any time you affect either or, through nerfs or buffs, you create an inbalance. Pre 1.1 scoundrels/operatives made up a very tiny portion of the population yet were doing their job of nailing healers to the ground and smashing their faces down.

 

Destroyed the predator in 1.1 and voila you got an inbalance. Healers ran around with impunity and then they had to get nerfed.

 

Pre 50 pvp yesterday we ran up against 5 operatives in the range of 32-45. Utterly destroyed them. Did we die a few times to operative team up? Sure. But ultimately everyone knows how to deal with operatives, and thats to slow them and dot them. And if we would have had more commandos we would have done even better(Stealth scan).

 

Even a BASELINE heal on someone that has an operative on them is enough to get the operative ownt.

[CaptainInsano]

I guess they'll start taking their customers more seriously when their subs continue dropping like a rock, but most will probably be laid off by then.