ToR is a success, dont feed no trolls.

[Skidrowbro]

Sorry JC, thing is it's not about a few issues but too many of them and keeping stubborn even when your player base is telling you are wrong.

 

99.9% of the playerbase couldn't design a game if their life depended on it

[Synxos]

It's a success moneywise. I don't think anyone is denying that.

If they were trying to make a good MMORPG, they failed horribly.

[JeramieCrowe]

Sorry JC, thing is it's not about a few issues but too many of them and keeping stubborn even when your player base is telling you are wrong.

 

BTW we knew many things that were wrong even before the beta (some examples below):

• 2 locked factions
  
• Lackluster Republic and too much focus on Empire
  
• Space duck
  

 

To each their own. I prefer locked factions, actually. It was a redeeming factor in Rift. I'm actually, personally, enjoying Republic much more than Empire.

 

And the hell is a space duck?!

[Superawesomerman]

You can go on and on. And it would all still be outside observations. Did they make some bad decisions? Sure they did. They're human. There isn't an MMO company in history that hasn't made some bad decisions.

 

But no one on this forum knows the game well enough to know what would and would not actually work. We can say we want this and pout if we don't get it, but we can't say with certainty that a certain something we want would have worked and there was no good reason it wasn't implemented!

 

Be honest now... The scale and frequency of these mistakes is not being blown out of proportion. Every 1.x.x patch has been a double maintenance. Every one (the one exception only required a seever reset and not full downtime)

[Urael]

99.9% of the playerbase couldn't design a game if their life depended on it

 

Given the way you worded this^

 

You are wrong.

 

I will leave you to figure out why.

[Roalmo]

Ahh, gotcha. I still think my idea of a LFG with a X-server toggle is the best solution and would end the debate for the most part.

 

Agree.

 

Now dammit man don't faint on me.

[Celebrus]

99.9% of the playerbase couldn't design a game if their life depended on it

 

99.9% of movie critics could not direct a movie.

 

99.9% of football fans could not stand in the pocket and stare down a defense while making an accurate pass.

 

99.9% of restaurant goers cannot cook a gourmet meal.

 

Does that make critics wrong? Or armchair quarterbacks wrong? Does that mean I'm speaking out of place if I complain about poor service at a pricy restaurant?

 

I'll answer that for you: No.

[Cherly]

99.9% of the playerbase couldn't design a game if their life depended on it

 

code it no, concept anyone can do, fund it yeah no

 

P.S. my account expired why can i post?

Edited May 25, 2012 by Cherly

[Lurchy]

Actually, I'm ingame right now. Taking a little break alt-tabbed after I made 300k on solo dailies. Next step is back onto my Consular to finish chapter 2 and I'll have all 4 class buffs! Woot!

 

Slacker!!

[Deewe]

To each their own. I prefer locked factions, actually. It was a redeeming factor in Rift. I'm actually, personally, enjoying Republic much more than Empire.

 

And the hell is a space duck?!

2 locked factions vs 3 factions or no locked factions: now not surprisingly we have faction balance issues.

 

Then the space duck is the boring and repetitive tube point and click shooter. Everyone knew it would suck. So does it.

[Urael]

Ahh, gotcha. I still think my idea of a LFG with a X-server toggle is the best solution and would end the debate for the most part.

 

I have posted about this very solution in other threads on debates concerning SSLFG vs CSLFG. The SSLFG only camp fears that everyone would choose CSLFG option because it would be the "fast" button. It seems to me that those that adhear to the SSLFG school of thought that fear there would be no community if the CSLFG was a toggle option don't actually have any faith in "communites" springing up organically unless they are "trapped" into staying on one server. Just sayin'

Edited May 25, 2012 by Urael

[Averran]

Hello everyone,

 

We have recently had to clean up a number of posts in this thread that were in violation of our Rules of Conduct and wanted to remind everyone to stay on topic while avoiding the following:

 

• Discussions that revolve around moderator actions or policies. Please direct any comments, questions, or concerns to communitysupport@swtor.com.
   
  
• Creating posts for the purpose of derailing the topic, eliciting negative reactions or spreading false information.
   
  
• Replying in a manner that adds nothing constructive to the conversation.
  

 

We appreciate your cooperation in this matter and will continue to monitor the conversation. Above all else please remember that we are here to help with issues that come up, you need not respond to them and extend the argument. In short, flag don't flame. This thread is not being closed, please feel free to carry on so long as you abide by the forum rules.

[Skidrowbro]

I have posted about this very solution in other threads on debates concerning SSLFG vs CSLFG. The SSLFG only camp fears that everyone would choose CSLFG option because it would be the "fast" button. It seems to me that those that adhear to the SSLFG school of thought that fear there would be no community if the CSLFG was a toggle option don't actually have any faith in "communites" springing up organically unless they are "trapped" into staying on one server. Just sayin'

 

Have you ever given any thought that Bioware is trying to keep a traditional single server experience instead of turning their game into a dungeon run?

[Lurchy]

99.9% of the playerbase couldn't design a game if their life depended on it

 

Very true words!

 

100% of the paying customers are the playerbase though

[Deewe]

Very true words!

 

100% of the paying customers are the playerbase though

Maybe I don't know how to brew a Coke but I know I prefer Orangina towards Coke

Edited May 25, 2012 by Deewe

[GalacticKegger]

To each their own. I prefer locked factions, actually. It was a redeeming factor in Rift. I'm actually, personally, enjoying Republic much more than Empire.

 

And the hell is a space duck?!

[JeramieCrowe]

Be honest now... The scale and frequency of these mistakes is not being blown out of proportion. Every 1.x.x patch has been a double maintenance. Every one (the one exception only required a seever reset and not full downtime)

 

Yeah, that's QA. Which is being restructured. There isn't a coder alive who can write part of millions of lines of code and not write something, eventually, that breaks something. Bugged patches are straight up on QA.

 

However, trying not to get too far off my actual point: Can you, personally, go there into the building and write code, or compare and find bugs before it's launched? Because, if you can't, then it stands to reason they know more about their game than a forum poster.

 

All we can do is sit back and say "Nope, don't like it, try something else." We can offer ideas, postulate all we want, express every desire in our hearts, but at the end of the day, we can't say if it will actually work with everything else or not.

 

I don't think I'm communicating my thoughts very well on this one... Let me try this, bolded part especially:

 

We’re not other games. And none of those 'other games' have the same feature set as each other, anyway. Each of them has had a different design philosophy, a different focus, a different set of problems to deal with, etc. And ours will be different still.

 

There are a lot of features that these games have that we don’t have. There are a lot of features we have that they don’t have – and likely never will. Features have a substantial cost – not just a cost to develop, in this case, but a cost to design, worldbuild, build art for, QA and support for years to come. The senior design leads spend a lot of time comparing the various features, and figuring out what will make the best package of combined features – i.e. the experience that we call the game.

 

Because really, no feature exists in a vacuum. It’s all good and well to say “This game must have Baby Seal Clubbing because game XXX had Baby Seal Clubbing 10 years ago and so this game is going to be like one built by primitive cavemen designers who had no idea of the magic of Baby Seal Clubbing!” But the MMO genre is so established now that the possibility space for features is very large, and no, not all of them will make it in. For every feature, there’s a lot more discussion that happens amongst the designers. Does this feature support or fight the other features in the game? Does the feature highlight what we’re trying to do, or elevate the IP, or serve part of the populace that is currently underserved? Put shortly, is this feature right for the game? Or is there a better place we can spend all those resources to make something truly magical?

 

Because at the end of the day, we’re not trying to make 'just another MMO but with lightsabers'. We don’t want to blindly include features because some of our competitors are doing so. We want SWTOR to be its own experience and its own identity, and this occasionally means doing things differently and taking some chances.

 

Does this mean that Baby Seal Clubbing will make it in? Well, I fought for it, but no.

 

As players on the outside, none of us can claim that we know the answers to all of those questions.

 

There seems to be an epidemic going around that makes people think that if they spend $15/month of a game, that makes them CEO of the company...

Edited May 25, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Urael]

Have you ever given any thought that Bioware is trying to keep a traditional single server experience instead of turning their game into a dungeon run?

 

Why don't you answer the question. You SSLFG types NEVER address the fact that you don't have faith that a community will spring up organically if there is a CSLFG option. You SSLFG types don't have faith in your own arguments. If you are so certain a community would spring up then you have nothing to worry about. TBH the people that you don't like (the ones you say would ruin the community (e.g. people who are tools in PUGs) would probably choose the CSLFG option thus keeping your community cleaner and friendlier.

[Drakkip]

We don’t want to blindly include features because some of our competitors are doing so. We want SWTOR to be its own experience and its own identity, and this occasionally means doing things differently and taking some chances.

 

Ok,,, I almost spit out my coffee onto my keyboard when I read that... No one really expects anyone to believe and buy into that do they?

 

It reminds of the time we couldn't find one of our workers and were looking for him for like an hour or so. Finally we bump into him and say "Where have you been for the last hour?" His response... "What? Where have you been? I have been looking for you!" Riiiiiiight

 

OH dear <wipes tear from eye> Best spin ever!

Edited May 25, 2012 by Drakkip

[Lurchy]

Have you ever given any thought that Bioware is trying to keep a traditional solo player experience instead of turning their game into a dungeon run?

 

Fixed that for you.

 

I know, cheap shot but I just can't resist the low hanging fruit

[MoCarnage]

Well not to be a troll or a doom sayer. But people are leaving in droves. It not because the game is bad. But lets face it customer sevice SUCKS!!! and they are having some serious tecnical issues that they are slow to own up to. I'm not going anywhere but I to am on a dead server. My question to BW is, is there anybody out there? Are you watching? Because you are sure Slow as hell to react!!! Are you listening? Because I've spent hours on the ticket I talk about below trying to explain things. Trying to better your handeling of things. At the end of the email I added a P.S. with a comment related to the origional ticket. I ended with a LOL so it would be taken as a joke. What I got back was another slap in the face saying my items that I was joking about asking for after so much effort was not going to happen. Again leaving me with the impression that the email I spent so much time composiong and trascribing events as a teaching tool went unread or mearly was skimmed. These things are what is driving people away!!!

CSR's insta closing tickets saying there is not enough information and asking for the very info that is already there. Most of wich was included in the first sentence. This ticket was 4 sentances with 1 only having 3 words and another 4 words. I only got any action when I reported the CSR for harassment. LOL

The failure to figure out the problem with 1.2 and the many ways you could crash, combined with telling people it was their machines for so long.

The customer service is a big reason people are leaving. They need to get a staff that can handel the daily problems that come with MMO's. the tickets they need oversight to weed out the lazy CSR's and get poeple that are going to do the job.

Servers have been slow for months. You have 3 PVE servers and 2 PVP servers in northamerica that have a consistant standard population, the rest are dead servers with a light population. Have you not Seen that? Server transfers have been possible for a long time. You have done it before when you opened servers in new areas to get people from there playing on them yet we are still waiting. Why? consolidate the servers sooner rather than later. You have to be faster to react in the MMO game. You have to have really good customer service. 3 out of 5 poeopl I talk to tell me they have not tried your game because they have herd your customer service sucks!!! So not only are you loosing player because of it. It's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bad your not getting new ones because of it!!! If it were me I'd take a SERIOUS look at it!!!

I Joked that you should hire me in the email then retracted it. You should definatly hire me as a consultant because you staff just doesn't get it. it's killing your game!!!

Edited May 25, 2012 by MoCarnage
typos

[JeramieCrowe]

Ok,,, I almost spit out my coffee onto my keyboard when I read that... No one really expects anyone to believe and buy into that do they?

 

It reminds of the time we couldn't find one of our workers and were looking for him for like an hour or so. Finally we bump into him and say "Where have you been for the last hour?" His response... "What? Where have you been? I have been looking for you!" Riiiiiiight

 

OH dear <wipes tear from eye> Best spin ever!

 

BTW, he posted that way before launch. hehe He was responding to a post about no swimming in TOR, but it's true of all features.

Edited May 25, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[Macabrae]

The best thread I've read on the TOR forums in a long time.

 

QFT..I love this game.......

[Urael]

It reminds of the time we couldn't find one of our workers and were looking for him for like an hour or so. Finally we bump into him and say "Where have you been for the last hour?" His response... "What? Where have you been? I have been looking for you!" Riiiiiiight

 

Reminds me of a guy who was playing Warcraft (the rts) here at work and claimed it was a screen saver that he wrote when the boss walked by. The boss believed him until his son, who works here and plays games told his Dad what it was. True Story.

Edited May 25, 2012 by Urael

[Skidrowbro]

Why don't you answer the question. You SSLFG types NEVER address the fact that you don't have faith that a community will spring up organically if there is a CSLFG option. You SSLFG types don't have faith in your own arguments. If you are so certain a community would spring up then you have nothing to worry about. TBH the people that you don't like (the ones you say would ruin the community (e.g. people who are tools in PUGs) would probably choose the CSLFG option thus keeping your community cleaner and friendlier.

 

Has nothing to do with making a community but turning a game into just a dungeon running experience only type of game. That was my biggest reason for leaving WoW and Rift. If I want to do just dungeon runs I'd buy the game, "Dungeon Runner"