Which augment for PvP healer?

[Chloe]

have you ever tried the +72 cunning matrix cube as apose to alacrity?

 

No sir. I don't want to lose the expertise and the burst healing to get out of those sticky situations. I'm sure it woks fine for PvE, but I'm sticking with my 60 expertise and my 405 alacrity every 2 minutes

[Perfectcircle]

No sir. I don't want to lose the expertise and the burst healing to get out of those sticky situations. I'm sure it woks fine for PvE, but I'm sticking with my 60 expertise and my 405 alacrity every 2 minutes

 

Yea i dont PvE so I wouldnt know.

 

How often are you being inturrupted casting Kolto Pack, or UWM after poping your relic?

[Chloe]

Yea i dont PvE so I wouldnt know.

 

How often are you being inturrupted casting Kolto Pack, or UWM after poping your relic?

 

I don't use Kolto Pack. If I have an UH, EM is always better. Gotta make use of our mobility! It's situational though, I guess it's okay to draw interrupts. If it didn't consume an UH, I would use it more for sure. And it's definitely useful while leveling until you get EM.

 

As far as getting interrupted with relics, it happens for sure, just not as often. When you're getting focused by a coordinated team, they rotate their interrupts and not much you can do! But casting much faster makes it wonderful for getting out of bad situations.

[CaptainApop]

I don't use Kolto Pack. If I have an UH, EM is always better. Gotta make use of our mobility! It's situational though, I guess it's okay to draw interrupts. If it didn't consume an UH, I would use it more for sure. And it's definitely useful while leveling until you get EM.

 

I disagree, KP is of great use in pvp if you've got an enemy up your *** and you don't have a peel or escape (or they happen to be ranged)

It's a perfect way to juke an interupt. If they interupt it, you've succeeded and can immediately and safely fart out an UM. If they decide for whatever reason to ignore it then you win anyway becuase you got a heal through. Win-win situation. Between our proc, pistol whip and medical consult (dunno what the smuggler mirror is) we're swimming in UH so the cost is not too much of an issue.

KP might be boring as sin in that it's almost identical to UM but in pvp that does come with it's own advantage.

 

Not to mention UM->KP->UM will always be the most healing we can output in one go without crippling our energy.

Edited June 5, 2012 by CaptainApop

[Chloe]

So basically, exactly what I said. If you use Kolto Pack more than EM though, you're crippling your mobility and energy.

[CaptainApop]

Edited because it seems I'm stupid and can't read :L

 

Though to be fair claiming you don't use it and it's always better to use EM is a bit misleading. Then saying it might be useful from an interupter standpoint is not much of an endorsement. Dealing with interrupters is a pretty important skill in pvp. I've seen way too many ops/scoundrels who very evidently don't even have KP/Kinf on their bars. Surgical probe and dispel aren't going to outheal any half-decent dps. Especially post 1.2.

 

KP might be resource intensive, boring as sin and not noticeably more powerful than UM but it is still our highest HPS move in a bind and it has it's niche in pvp.

 

Still trying to work out a practical use for it in pve though =/

Edited June 5, 2012 by CaptainApop

[Chloe]

Situational means situational.

 

Anyway, this is about augments. Please don't derail the thread.

[snaplemouton]

And like I said...

 

Cunning + endurance augment is the best because of +9% cunning talent.

 

And KP is extremely good when free casting. And this always happens one way or another that you will be able to free cast in any warzones. Especially in huttball.

UWM > KP can go up to 9-10k healing in 2.5-3 seconds easily.

[GHoppa]

I have yet to see any justifcation for why cunning is better than power, when power adds more to heals than cunning.

 

Especially when people are recommending getting critical to above 450, as you should have all the crit u need and the crit provided by cunning is affected by DR too. It removes critical chance out of the picture for a choice between cunning and power, and leaves power ahead. Even if you include the extra 9% cunning from that skill choice.

 

Posting a webpage with an opinion on it doesn't make it right. They basically just say "do this" and give no justifactions for why.

 

Also, when someone is being focused ,and you can free heal, UMW + KP spammed will keep them up through a hellva alot of damage. Yes it burns your energy, but sometimes keeping someone alive is more important.

Edited June 5, 2012 by GHoppa

[EbonFade]

I have yet to see any justifcation for why cunning is better than power, when power adds more to heals than cunning.

.

 

It doesn't really matter, but cunning is a tiny tiny bit better than power. Basically bc of the 9% passive talent + a consular class buff (5%) actually pushes it ahead. Point for point power still adds more, but your pool of cunning is now larger.

 

An easy way to check is to simply swap a power vs cunning augment and observe what it does to a static fixed heal lke kolto cloud.

 

But the difference is basically .001 and an equally negligible bonus to crit.

[GHoppa]

It doesn't really matter, but cunning is a tiny tiny bit better than power. Basically bc of the 9% passive talent + a consular class buff (5%) actually pushes it ahead. Point for point power still adds more, but your pool of cunning is now larger.

 

An easy way to check is to simply swap a power vs cunning augment and observe what it does to a static fixed heal lke kolto cloud.

 

But the difference is basically .001 and an equally negligible bonus to crit.

 

Thanks, the part of the picture i was missing was the consular buff. However by my math power is still slightly ahead.

 

for example, choice between 300 cunning or 300 power:

 

Power bonus to healing = 300 * 0.17 = 51

Cunning bonus to healing = (300 + (9%+5% = 14% = 300 * 0.14 = 42)) * 0.14 = 342 * 0.14 = 47.88

 

I will do as you suggested tho, and test it out on my SRMP in case my simple math is missing something, which may be the case and it wouldn't be the first time heh. I will post my results here for everyone to see.

 

I agree either way the difference is negligable. I just find it somewhat distracting when people state on a forum that beginners come to for advice that way XYZ is better, without giving any explaination as to why.

 

Anyway thx for bringing a little more light to the subject.

[GHoppa]

Okay tested it out and my initial response was correct. With the 9% skill buff to cunning, and the consular 5% buff, power was giving me slightly stronger heals. When i say slight....

 

Cunning augment non crit tick of SRMP = 697

Power augment non crit tick of SRMP = 698

 

(numbers are low b/c im specced 11/30 atm, but thats beside the point)

 

lol. so swapping my power augment for a cunning aumgent gave me a whooping +1hp heal. So yeah, basically nothing between them, but from a pure min/max perspective, we can conclude power comes out on top. In reality, buy whatever is cheapest at the time.

[Perfectcircle]

Okay tested it out and my initial response was correct. With the 9% skill buff to cunning, and the consular 5% buff, power was giving me slightly stronger heals. When i say slight....

 

Cunning augment non crit tick of SRMP = 697

Power augment non crit tick of SRMP = 698

 

(numbers are low b/c im specced 11/30 atm, but thats beside the point)

 

lol. so swapping my power augment for a cunning aumgent gave me a whooping +1hp heal. So yeah, basically nothing between them, but from a pure min/max perspective, we can conclude power comes out on top. In reality, buy whatever is cheapest at the time.

 

Are you considering full WH gear w/ cunning / endurence augment? Don't forget power has Diminishing Return where cunning does not. Eventually power starts to become less usefull, especially if your WH gear gives you enough power.

[JsunJay]

Are you considering full WH gear w/ cunning / endurence augment? Don't forget power has Diminishing Return where cunning does not. Eventually power starts to become less usefull, especially if your WH gear gives you enough power.

 

Actually it is the other way around. Cunning has DR while Power doesn't. Power is the only stat that doesn't suffer from DR that's why many say stack power after you get to a certain point with crit/surge.

[snaplemouton]

You should be having this...

Every 5 main pieces should be Cunning/endurance/expertise/power/surge.

Every augments should be cunning/endurance.

And every off-set pieces should focus on Cunning then Power then surge then crit then alacrity or accuracy if you are forced to have them.

When you are fully war hero you make sure you are capped in crit% from crit rating by switching enhancement to crit/surge instead of power/surge

 

Because cunning damage got no DR. Cunning crit chance got DR. Having as much cunning as possible make you switch that crit rating into power which in the end become more useful as you don't need as much crit rating and can use power instead.

[GHoppa]

Are you considering full WH gear w/ cunning / endurence augment? Don't forget power has Diminishing Return where cunning does not. Eventually power starts to become less usefull, especially if your WH gear gives you enough power.

 

As already stated, power has no diminshing returns.

 

For the record, i am in full augmented war hero gear, with the exception of the main hand. For my test all i did was swap one of my 12end/18power augments for a 12end/18cunning augment, and record the results with all buffs up and running.

 

And i am sorry snaple, i don't quite understand what you were trying to get at in your last post. I think my test proves there is literally no difference between the two, but if anything power is always a slightly better choice between it or cunning.

[EbonFade]

Thanks, the part of the picture i was missing was the consular buff. However by my math power is still slightly ahead.

 

for example, choice between 300 cunning or 300 power:

 

Power bonus to healing = 300 * 0.17 = 51

Cunning bonus to healing = (300 + (9%+5% = 14% = 300 * 0.14 = 42)) * 0.14 = 342 * 0.14 = 47.88

 

Actually I think the bonuses are multiplicative, not additive in general. And I think its .228 per point increase to bonus damage (which scales linearly with healing) from power, and .219 from cunning if the spreadsheet on sithwarriors are to be believed. If you wrap both buffs into the cunning stat, you get .230 per point of cunning which as you found out is basically identical (when I did the test I found +1 pt difference in favor of cunning, contrary to your test so not sure whats going on there (did you have consular buff?)).

 

However what this ignores is crit. With all the Augment slots you gain about .7% crit with cunning, which is not negligable. The reason this is important is b/c it allows you to get closer to your crit soft cap without actually using crit gear.

 

Also, the power mods are better than the cunning mods, b/c they don't trade of 1 to 1. Eg there is actually more cunning+power on the mod with more power. Consequently when min max building your characters gear you end up with quite a lot of power, and not as much cunning which means in practise that its probable that you are low on crit.

 

Thus for augments it is advisable to go with cunning!

Edited June 6, 2012 by EbonFade

[GHoppa]

Actually I think the bonuses are multiplicative, not additive in general. And I think its .228 per point increase to bonus damage (which scales linearly with healing) from power, and .219 from cunning if the spreadsheet on sithwarriors are to be believed. If you wrap both buffs into the cunning stat, you get .230 per point of cunning which as you found out is basically identical (when I did the test I found +1 pt difference in favor of cunning, contrary to your test so not sure whats going on there (did you have consular buff?)).

 

However what this ignores is crit. With all the Augment slots you gain about .7% crit with cunning, which is not negligable. The reason this is important is b/c it allows you to get closer to your crit soft cap without actually using crit gear.

 

Also, the power mods are better than the cunning mods, b/c they don't trade of 1 to 1. Eg there is actually more cunning+power on the mod with more power. Consequently when min max building your characters gear you end up with quite a lot of power, and not as much cunning which means in practise that its probable that you are low on crit.

 

Thus for augments it is advisable to go with cunning!

 

Could be multiplicative, i assumed additive, happy to be corrected if wrong on that one. I will test some more to find out, by respecing and testing with and without the skill.

 

As for my testing, i dont know what to tell you. Those were honestly the results i got. Erranous rounding errors??? I tested first with the consular buff swapping 1 augment, and then tested without consular buff too swapping an augment again. Wrote the results on paper so i didn't get confused. Remodded an augment like 4 times and cost me some dearly needed cash ....

 

Your correct about the damage modifier numbers being higher, but the title was spefically listing which augment for a pvp healer, hence i used the bonus to healing numbers found on sithwarrior, which are .17 and .14, last updated on the 18th May. http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/Thread-SWTOR-formula-list

 

With the abundance of crit on gear, i never have any problems reaching what i need to with crit chance without the bonus from cunning augments. I gues it comes down to gearing preferences really. I 100% agree on the cunning+power mods.

 

Thanks for a healthy exchange of ideas and thoughts, really hard to find on forums these days.

[flem]

However what this ignores is crit. With all the Augment slots you gain about .7% crit with cunning, which is not negligable. The reason this is important is b/c it allows you to get closer to your crit soft cap without actually using crit gear.

There is no crit % soft cap. There is DR for each *aspect* -- % bonus from Crit, Cunning, and perhaps another stat (ranged DPS gets crit % from Aim), but they all work independently.