expertise healing nerf, pve gear better?

[Pekish]

i know it's so easy but so hard tons of people in my server go PVP healer with full rakata and in EVERY DAMN warzone i quickly and nicely (well sometimes more nicely then other) try to explain them and invite them to check the number

 

it got to the point where i did that post (and i DONT PLAY A SAGE!) just to be able to send the link to people

 

and nothing they refuse to check the number and keep saying but RAKATA is RAKATA I see bigger number

 

and then i quite warzone because there is no point in playing with people like that make a mistake is okey refuse to check and correct is not

 

*****

 

about campain is a TIER up so it will be better (as i said they know math at Bioware) but again there is the problem of when someone hit you and when u heal yourself

 

fake example

campain 3500 heal > then u get 18.18% more damage so ur heal actually are 3500-18.18% = 2863.7

bm 3000 heal

 

so i am not sure campain is still better for PVP because the fact that expertise ADD BOTH

DEFENCE and POWER at the same time

make the curve different then the curve in PVE where every stay has a single use

 

I should examin deeper Campain vs BM to be sure is better for safety i would say if you pvp please use PVP gear

Edited May 22, 2012 by Pekish

[vertigo_]

i know it's so easy but so hard tons of people in my server go PVP healer with full rakata and in EVERY DAMN warzone i quickly and nicely (well sometimes more nicely then other) try to explain them and invite them to check the number

 

it got to the point where i did that post (and i DONT PLAY A SAGE!) just to be able to send the link to people

 

and nothing they refuse to check the number and keep saying but RAKATA is RAKATA I see bigger number

 

and then i quite warzone because there is no point in playing with people like that make a mistake is okey refuse to check and correct is not

 

Again, I am not comparing rakata to BM, I am comparing campaign to BM, with some war hero pieces. campaign > battlemaster.

[L-RANDLE]

Exactly. This is the same conclusion I reached. But consider this, its a wash when you compared equal tiers (BM vs rakata). But campaign vs BM is a no-brainer for me. I can get campaign gear faster than I can get war hero (unless I played an ungodly amount of pvp, which I cant due to a lack of queue pops. I couldnt even finish my weekly last week). So when you compare campaign / black hole gear to a tier below (battlemaster), the PVE is better. It is also easier to gear up, since you can share gear between your PVE and PVP (I only swap out 5 pieces of non-set gear).

 

You are so close!!!!

Recruit~=lvl 50 with orange epics/TIO<Columi~=CHA<BM~=RAK

etc, etc.

 

Since you understand that then you can figure out what is BiS for PvP and it ain't 1300EXP.

[cyvaris]

You see big numbers on your heals in Rakata/Campaign.

 

 

I see HUGE numbers on my Master Strike when I hit you.

[Pekish]

Lets look from close

BLACK HOLE

 

Strength: 147.0 - 147.0 - 147

Presence: 280.9 - 280.9 - 280.9

Aim: 94.5 - 94.5 - 94.5

Cunning: 94.5 - 94.5 - 94.5

Endurance: 1653.8 - 1396.5 - 1787

Willpower: 1683.9 - 1401.9 - 1748

Power: 251.0 - 251.0 - 657

Accuracy: 0.0 - 0.0 - 0

Alacrity: 357.0 - 357.0 - 228

Crit: 430.0 - 435.0 - 190

Surge: 153.0 - 153.0 - 342

Defense: 0.0 - 0.0 - 0

Shield: 0.0 - 0.0 - 0

Absorb: 0.0 - 0.0 - 0

 

* there is some choise to do between more power (like this one) or more crits i choosed more power so i can put the difference between healing power to extreme (crit will lower the normal heal that is what we will check)

 

BONUS HEALING - 640

HP - 20575

 

 

(16629.7 + PvP Dmg Reduction 18.18%) = 19653 vs 20575 so effectivly it has almost 922hp more

 

healing power bonus

(489.2 + PvP Heal Boost 12.27%) = 550 vs 640 (with less crit) (14%)

 

the fact stay that when you heal yourself 3000 or someone heal you with BM you will heal 3000+14%-18.8% so you are a little less effective it's true you have a bonus at FULL HEALT of 5% but it last only at start when they hit you and u heal urself having a bigger pool doesnt coust

 

so personally since healer is about beeing focus fired and since you heal are pretty powerfull already as BM having heals 14% more powerfull and lose 18% resistence i think i would still go with BM but obviously going FULL BLACKHOLE is not as bad as going FULL RAKATA.... full rakata is an insult to your teammate

[cyvaris]

^Your still taking +15% or more increased damage if you are in full Black Hole.

[Pekish]

You see big numbers on your heals in Rakata/Campaign.

 

 

I see HUGE numbers on my Master Strike when I hit you.

EXACTLY

 

 

cool i healed for 7000K instead of 6500K bigger number yeah! too bad that sentinel just crit you for 13.000 instead of 10.000

 

go go play PVP with PVE gear and then cry that sentinel is OP (the class that get a biggest advantage from you going in PVP with no expertise)

Edited May 22, 2012 by Pekish

[vertigo_]

You see big numbers on your heals in Rakata/Campaign.

 

 

I see HUGE numbers on my Master Strike when I hit you.

 

I see big numbers when the 3 dps I just kept up, nail you while you desperately try to kill a bubbled, self healing merc (who you cant interrupt), who is at full health, despite you going all out, while all of your dots get cleansed the second they hit. I love it when marauders try to solo me. Even if my shield wears off, you wont kill me. I can even heal myself and others while you try to kill me.

[Pekish]

the 3 dps are trying to take down my healer that has PVP gear and get 18% less damage and HEAL OVER TIME his is better since lower quantity but more effective 18.18% more effective

 

on the other hand i can solo you with my 22% more damage on you with no expertise

 

and here we are 4vs2 my other 6 teammate are winning the warzone while u try to make big number on heal count just to show off a screanshoot at the end of the game

 

go go play PVP in PVE gear as long as you are in the opposite team

Edited May 22, 2012 by Pekish

[vertigo_]

go go play PVP with PVE gear and then cry that sentinel is OP (the class that get a biggest advantage from you going in PVP with no expertise)

 

Marauders / sentinels are like fleas by themselves.

 

options:

1) Either sit there and effortlessly heal myself thru the damage.

 

2) kite them around a pole, aoe healing every 4 sec, emergy scan every 9 seconds.

 

3) kite you into a tank or dps.

 

If you get close, cc stun to get out of melee range, or knock back. My only worry is focus fire from multiple DPS. I am immortal until I get focus fired.

[cyvaris]

I see big numbers when the 3 dps I just kept up, nail you while you desperately try to kill a bubbled, self healing merc (who you cant interrupt), who is at full health, despite you going all out, while all of your dots get cleansed the second they hit. I love it when marauders try to solo me. Even if my shield wears off, you wont kill me. I can even heal myself and others while you try to kill me.

 

Wounding Throw

 

Awe

 

Force Stasis

 

Or you know...just ignore you till the bubble wears off, leap back in and solo kill you. 6k+ Crits on Master Strike sure are tasty with all MY cooldowns popped.

 

Either your server is full of blithering idiots or you are lying. Trust me Shien's BEST Trooper healer in FULL WH can not tank 3 dps on him, so don't say you in your PvE gear can.

Edited May 22, 2012 by cyvaris

[_Zorth_]

I roll a merc healer. My PVE gear has 2200 aim, 550 power, and 21k health.

 

In battlemaster gear, my aim drops to about 1700, health 16k, and power is pretty much non-existent. Admittedly, I could optimize power better if I grinded for it (and if queues actually popped).

 

So it looks like I am giving up 23% of my primary stat, for a 10% healing boost.

Giving up 19% of my health for 20% damage reduction.

 

The 1 caveat I see, is healing myself as my overall health scales, but the amount I heal myself does not.

 

Currently, what I feel works best is hybrid, PVE gear with about 500 expertise (items that dont give up too much primary stat, like relics and blasters).

 

20% Damage reduction is ALOT and merc healers are one of the squishest classes in PvP, My merc healer friend who's in full BM can get taken down by a Jugg in 4 seconds and that's with about 20% reduction. Now imagine him being hit by that same jugg while in PvE gear, He'd have 20k HP yea, But the jugg would do 20% MORE damage to him and burn him down even quicker than before.

 

TL ; TR

 

PvP gear is ALWAYS better than PvE gear, It always feels like a nerf but it's a buff to healing, damage reduction and damage.

[Pekish]

if you really have FULL blackhole there is no much difference with BM i still think BM is better FOR PVP and faster to get .

 

But i dont think you will do HORRIBLE in pvp with BLACKHOLE set

 

on the other hand i wouldn't pick you for my team in ranked over a full BM and i would advice a full RAKATA to stay out of ranked.

 

and honestly a full Rakata out of any team i play with (as much as i wouldnt want a full RECRUIT unless is a noob and he admit it and is there just to get his comm to improve his gear in that case obviously i would help him out)

Edited May 22, 2012 by Pekish

[vertigo_]

Wounding Throw

 

Awe

 

Force Stasis

 

Or you know...just ignore you till the bubble wears off, leap back in and solo kill you. 6k+ Crits on Master Strike sure are tasty with all MY cooldowns popped sure are tasty.

 

Either your server is full of blithering idiots or you are lying. Trust me Shien's BEST Trooper healer in FULL WH can not tank 3 dps on him, so don't say you in your PvE gear can.

 

Its easy to take 3 dps for 12-15 seconds.

 

1) kolto shield yourself

2) pop shield

3) pop supercharged gas

4) kolto missile

5) spam healing scan / emergency scan

6) overheat

7) vent heat

8) continue

9) shoot healing blasters at tank / dps to get their attention if noone is helping you

10) if shield falls, kite while spamming kolto missile.

 

and even if you do die, you just tied up 3 dps for 15+ seconds, that is how objectives are won.

 

I will fraps a warzone for you, although I will admit the pvp talent pool has dried up quite a bit recently.

[Pekish]

many class can do that 15 second is not impossible sentinel has bubble+invisibility shadow has invisibility stun mez pull kb 3 sec inv to force...

 

you are saying like holding 15 second 3 dps is the end of the world it's pretty normal if you know they are coming (different if they are 3 hidden DPS and they jump you)

Edited May 22, 2012 by Pekish

[_Zorth_]

Its easy to take 3 dps for 12-15 seconds.

 

1) kolto shield yourself

2) pop shield

3) pop supercharged gas

4) kolto missile

5) spam healing scan / emergency scan

6) overheat

7) vent heat

8) continue

9) shoot healing blasters at tank / dps to get their attention if noone is helping you

10) if shield falls, kite while spamming kolto missile.

 

and even if you do die, you just tied up 3 dps for 15+ seconds, that is how objectives are won.

 

I will fraps a warzone for you, although I will admit the pvp talent pool has dried up quite a bit recently.

 

Charge..

Stun

DPS

Interrupt

DPS

Push during cast

Charge again

DPS

Healer = Dead

[cyvaris]

Its easy to take 3 dps for 12-15 seconds.

 

1) kolto shield yourself

2) pop shield

3) pop supercharged gas

4) kolto missile

5) spam healing scan / emergency scan

6) overheat

7) vent heat

8) continue

9) shoot healing blasters at tank / dps to get their attention if noone is helping you

10) if shield falls, kite while spamming kolto missile.

 

and even if you do die, you just tied up 3 dps for 15+ seconds, that is how objectives are won.

 

I will fraps a warzone for you, although I will admit the pvp talent pool has dried up quite a bit recently.

 

And how much of a cooldown do those have? As soon as DPS see you are undergeared you will be ganked everytime you spawn.

 

Again I just get the feeling you must PvP against complete invalids who have no idea how to play/are just as under geared for PvP as you are.

[utuwer]

You trade your defensive for healing which is not a good choice. What is the point of more healing when heavy DPSers like mara/Sent or PT/Vanguard with 12% dps bonus agaisnt you eat through your hp like nothing?Remember, a dead corpse is harmless, no healing nor dps.

[vertigo_]

And how much of a cooldown do those have? As soon as DPS see you are undergeared you will be ganked everytime you spawn.

 

Again I just get the feeling you must PvP against complete invalids who have no idea how to play/are just as under geared for PvP as you are.

 

Supercharged gas is low, I can charge it while waiting to get out of the gate.

vent heat is 2 min.

shield (which makes me immune to interrupts for 12-15 sec, and 20% damage reduction) is 1.5 min

[vertigo_]

You trade your defensive for healing which is not a good choice. What is the point of more healing when heavy DPSers like mara/Sent or PT/Vanguard with 12% dps bonus agaisnt you eat through your hp like nothing?Remember, a dead corpse is harmless, no healing nor dps.

 

Please read the first page, the amount of hits required to kill me is the same as BM gear.

[Pekish]

it's not the moment you start healing YOURSELF

 

1 heal is 18% more effective read my post

 

RAKATA as we wrote before

 

19227.9

BATTLEMASTER as we said

16629.7 + PvP Dmg Reduction 18.18% = 19652.9

 

SO YES IF YOU DONT HEAL YOURSELF ITS SAME TIME

 

 

but the things get more complicated when u keep in account other things for example you heal urself the same ammount of heal 3000 made with RAKATA compered to BM 18.18% less effective... same when someone else heal you because u will get 18.18% more damage so your 3000 new HP will go down 18.18% faster

 

THE MOMENT YOU HEAL URSELF IT"S NOT ANYMORE

 

and since you survive just because you HEAL urself what you said it is just NOT TRUE

it's really not that difficult to understand... just try a lil harder

 

it's a little better for FULL BLACKHOLE since it heal 14% more then BM but still is WORST THE BM because BM resist 18.18% that is stil 4% slower dieing then BLACKHOLE

Edited May 22, 2012 by Pekish

[Arrys]

Giving up 19% of my health for 20% damage reduction.

 

 

In other words you have a 1% more effective health pool in PvP gear before you cast your first heal on yourself. Healers beenfit the most from mitigation as we can replenish our health.

 

Now if your healing is more than 20% less effective san's healing Debuff you might have a point however you presented innadequate information to consider that.

[Trevalion]

Being immune to interrupts doesnt make us immune to CC abilities. I know that good dps/tanks will cc me when the bubble goes up (unless their dumb, and there are dumb people out there right? But the good ones arent). And even with the bubble and your kiting strategy, any healer class in this game is trivial to focus unless they are cross healed.

 

Now I personally don't give a rat's arse whether you wear your pve gear to pvp in, do whatever you think is right. But I would never invite you to a pvp premade I was in, and NEVER bring you into a [hypothetically] ranked match if you insisted on not maximizing your expertise stat.

 

Now it's obvious that there are diminishing returns on expertise, and it makes some pretty good sense to maximise both the main stat and the expertise. If you say you have found that magic point, well good on you then arr?

 

Myself I find that sitting over 1100 (1224 atm) expertise is the most beneficial for me when healing in wz. The straight up dmg reduction + heal bonus + augmented armor set pieces is pretty hard to argue with.

[Stevlol]

As a merc healer, having to read the OP's post is just embarassing. Either you are playing against the worst of the worst players in the US, or you are like in some LSD driven la la land where you only imagine you can take on 3 dps. 1 ravage from a geared marauder with you in 0 expertise will put you at 20% health, so I'd really love to see some footage of you and your "amazing skill in pve gear"

[utuwer]

Please read the first page, the amount of hits required to kill me is the same as BM gear.

 

Well, you better try it in real fights then. But as my experience, those with huge hp bar like 20k+ (aka PvE gears) are surpringly squishy in WZs.