Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[PsyloSatan]

If you can't tell who the best is with out a tool and call that tool vital then you may need to rethink your life. Gamers usually, excuse me, always know if someone is pulling their weight, because they can tell without recount, and actually come to think of it some of the best gamers don't even use recount since its faulty and depends on shared information from everyones characters own damage and when in heavy fight can't even be considered a tool nor vital.

 

You wouldn't know a "best gamer" if one punched you in the mouth right now.

[Vrelkyn]

Real gamers parse their own data.

[Phaelus]

I'm all for an in-game recount. As a frequent for the MMO raiding scene I've main healed, tanked and DPSed for all variety of fights and even managed raids, I absolutely love to see damage, healing, threat, CC, etc. for all situations, including solo play. I just like to advance my character in any way I can and something like Recount would do that for me.

 

What I can do without is posting it in groups like some badge of honor or to belittle others. I could care less who did what so long as we work as a team and accomplish what we set out to do. Whether or not I need or want to improve my performance is my business. Also, gear score has no place in this game or any for that matter. It completely ruined WoW for me and I believe it should be hidden from players' eyes and fingers. I could care less if a player has all greens so long as he works just as hard as the rest of us to complete the encounter.

[PsyloSatan]

Real gamers parse their own data.

 

I agree

[Zantheon]

^^ This. Most of these people couldnt be a raid leader if they could use the force irl. All I see from the naysayers in this thread so far is about dps only, the least difficult of the trinity to play. My guess is they never even know there were arrows on the recount window that took you to other numbers created in an encounter. My guess is they dont want it because they were the ones being kicked for not knowing how to play.

 

My guess is and i'm quite sure that your first game was wow based on your choice of words. Look we can bicker but do you know there was life before recount? Did you ever experience it? You would know how much more fun it is to be confident if you did, Confidence didnt come from a number it was proven by your skills, be it movement, timing, etc. My guess is your not happy about the panda expansion and you don't know what life is like without a dps meter or what it was ever like before it.

[SarahTonin]

NO!

 

I have played multiple MMO's (EQ and EQ2, SWG, LOTRO, Warhammer, COH/COV, WoW, etc etc) and never saw use for a tool such as Recount. Some argue the importance of it for tracking your own progress, but progress is not determined by having the highest amount of dps/heals. A player should be able to gauge the use of CD's and avoid spamming skills on their own without keeping their eyes locked on a meter. As for using it to see if someone in your party is "doing their job", you would need to know the skills for all classes so you know what they are actually doing when you check their "work" if you rely on details from an addon. Some classes are support roles and may not do high dps but have advanced CC skills which are used more often to the advantage of the entire group. You would have to see exactly which skills they are using and how often...and by then you aren't paying attention to the game anyways so what does it matter? People have been able to identify and kick lazy players from groups well enough without the use of addons.

When the importance of numbers becomes the main focus of a game, it ruins the community by promoting elitism amongst players shrouded by the deindividuation of internet anonymity.

[Zantheon]

Real gamers parse their own data.

 

exactly my point, Psylo why did you agree? You said you wanted a tool to do the work for you lol.

[PsyloSatan]

I'm all for an in-game recount. As a frequent for the MMO raiding scene I've main healed, tanked and DPSed for all variety of fights and even managed raids, I absolutely love to see damage, healing, threat, CC, etc. for all situations, including solo play. I just like to advance my character in any way I can and something like Recount would do that for me.

 

What I can do without is posting it in groups like some badge of honor or to belittle others. I could care less who did what so long as we work as a team and accomplish what we set out to do. Whether or not I need or want to improve my performance is my business. Also, gear score has no place in this game or any for that matter. It completely ruined WoW for me and I believe it should be hidden from players' eyes and fingers. I could care less if a player has all greens so long as he works just as hard as the rest of us to complete the encounter.

 

There is a right way and a wrong way to use recount for sure and you explained it pretty well. I think it is best used to assist raid leaders, since you know, they have the hardest job in the raid.

[Zantheon]

Ween from the wow nip guys, you can do it!

 

I have faith yet in this community.

 

Just say no, to recount.

[DragonAgeOrgins]

If you can't tell who the best is with out a tool and call that tool vital then you may need to rethink your life. Gamers usually, excuse me, always know if someone is pulling their weight, because they can tell without recount, and actually come to think of it some of the best gamers don't even use recount since its faulty and depends on shared information from everyones characters own damage and when in heavy fight can't even be considered a tool nor vital.

 

This for 10 inter net's. You see people who live in real world know's that it suck's sometimes. It's easy to escape in a MMO World where all your troubles vanish. You are no longer just a nub but you are a Sith/Jedi and hell bent on saving/destroying the galaxy. My point people use MMO as an entertainment tool.

 

When did raiding become such a science? what happened to the days without recount, threat or any other tool under any other name designed to tell you the DPS scores of a fight. You throw a bone for DPS to fight over. They have "Tunnel Vision" now they are focused on being "leet" instead of being self aware.

 

I done this several times. I can easily see who's casting what in a 5-6 minute fight. I can see who's doing nothing. It's called being self aware. All of these people who claim to be elite yet they are blind without their mod's. Their recant argument "I want be able to progressive and see who's not pulling their weight"

 

I'm pretty sure you can progress just fine without it. Look right now at least 200k people and more up the Dec 20 will be playing without recount/threat/mods and they are doing just fine. Rift had this weird idea to add a mod like recount.

 

People grew frustrated. The moment Rift did that. People stopped playing "what is fun" they played on rotation. They didn't even click the talent's they wanted. They copied and paste everybody else talent for highest dps. How boring is that. No wonder wow lost 2 million subscriber's.

 

This is a story based driven MMO. Not a raid based MMO. I never enjoyed leveling in warcraft. It was hard labor. Boring but in SWTOR. I actually enjoy it because of the storyline not for any phat loot. This question has been asked over and over...you didn't even add a poll.

[Zantheon]

This for 10 inter net's. You see people who live in real world know's that it suck's sometimes. It's easy to escape in a MMO World where all your troubles vanish. You are no longer just a nub but you are a Sith/Jedi and hell bent on saving/destroying the galaxy. My point people use MMO as an entertainment tool.

 

When did raiding become such a science? what happened to the days without recount, threat or any other tool under any other name designed to tell you the DPS scores of a fight. You throw a bone for DPS to fight over. They have "Tunnel Vision" now they are focused on being "leet" instead of being self aware.

 

I done this several times. I can easily see who's casting what in a 5-6 minute fight. I can see who's doing nothing. It's called being self aware. All of these people who claim to be elite yet they are blind without their mod's. Their recant argument "I want be able to progressive and see who's not pulling their weight"

 

I'm pretty sure you can progress just fine without it. Look right now at least 200k people and more up the Dec 20 will be playing without recount/threat/mods and they are doing just fine. Rift had this weird idea to add a mod like recount.

 

People grew frustrated. The moment Rift did that. People stopped playing "what is fun" they played on rotation. They didn't even click the talent's they wanted. They copied and paste everybody else talent for highest dps. How boring is that. No wonder wow lost 2 million subscriber's.

 

This is a story based driven MMO. Not a raid based MMO. I never enjoyed leveling in warcraft. It was hard labor. Boring but in SWTOR. I actually enjoy it because of the storyline not for any phat loot. This question has been asked over and over...you didn't even add a poll.

 

I was just thinking about how this needs to have a poll mate. lol

[Kendry]

Yes. It's incredibly helpful in min/maxing dps, healing, and threat generation. As a healer, I can definitely credit Recount for helping me raise my hps by at least 10-15% or more. It also allows the lazy and bad players to be picked out. If you're arguing that it screws up pugs, then join a casual guild and run with them. Guilds exist for a reason. If you think min/maxing is a waste of time and makes the game feel like a job....join a casual guild. They exist for a reason. If you don't like it, you can simply not use it and it's easy to avoid. If you're socially awkward and only like pugs, then play your class correctly. While it may sound elitist, if you're doing bad enough dps that you get forcibly removed from a group, you're doing something very wrong.

 

I've found that the people labeled as 'elitist' are just normal people like you and me. They dont want to sit in a instance for 10 hours. I dont mind an occasional wipe because lets face it, sometimes mistakes are made. What does annoy me is someone constantly not paying attention, clearly not doing their job, and overall just dragging group performance down. And yet, somehow labeling themselves as casual makes this all supposedly alright. Let's face it, random stranger X doesnt care how many hours you work, or how you only have 2 fingers and 1 hand and have to move your mouse with your **********. He only cares that he has probably only has 2 hrs before he needs to sleep so he can go to work, and doesnt want to suffer endlessly because you aren't up to par. People looking for an excuse to boot someone from the group don't need recount, they'll use anything. People wanting to just get it done and move on need to know where problems are occuring and be reassured that even though it may be challenging, the 3 others with them are just as focused on winning.

[PsyloSatan]

My guess is and i'm quite sure that your first game was wow based on your choice of words. Look we can bicker but do you know there was life before recount? Did you ever experience it? You would know how much more fun it is to be confident if you did, Confidence didnt come from a number it was proven by your skills, be it movement, timing, etc. My guess is your not happy about the panda expansion and you don't know what life is like without a dps meter or what it was ever like before it.

 

Your guess is wrong and basing your decision on a game that domintes the internet is showing up on my recount like you have been standing in fire for the whole thread. My confidence comes from being able to show people like you that your confidence was only allowd to exist because my skill at healing baddies is far greater than your ability to be bad.

 

I heal exclusively so your constant drivel about dps is worthless. I dont give a crap how good you think you are or how high you can get with or without a meter. I just want to be able to show you how bad you are with numbers you cannot lie about. Recount lets me do that. No recount just lets you run your mouth about how good you aren't and have nobody be able to show you why you are wrong.

 

You remind me of the dps in battlegrounds who brag about being on the top of the chart because you spent the whole match dpsing a tank that had 5 healers in his pocket.

[Colobulous]

*Quoting Coloborus or whoever it was*

 

Let me teach you how to quote first.

 

Instead of using the italic or bold button, go over to the icon that looks like a comic text balloon, it's next to the # sign on the end.

 

For that I have to say then why even bother playing ?

 

I'm not planning on playing the game to experiment with diverse build types or divergent mechanics. Not something I consider especially appealing as a player, let alone something desirable in a mass-market MMO. Too prone to exploits and imbalances which have made several other games less pleasant.

 

And from what Bioware has said about class parity, I don't believe they're going for that either. There are games where you can try that sort of thing, but this isn't even going for that market.

 

 

For this I have to say , no do not 'blackbox' anything for immersion unless its recount and for people to brag and bully. I don't want a wow with star wars skins.

 

A) You don't seem to know what a Blackbox game is, since you just said you wanted to do that, by remarking that you want to block Recount. The only way to truly do that is for the game to be made into a Blackbox version. Which it is not, so...sorry, not going to happen.

 

B) This game is WOW with Star Wars Skin.

 

C) People's capacity to brag and bully depends not on Recount, but on their personal character. Recount would just force them to be objective, not that that would stop them, but at least the individual could rely on facts instead of just opinions.

 

For this I say , use training dummies.

 

For that, I say...pooh on training dummies, I care about actual real game performance, the only purpose a training dummy would serve is for boasting.

 

Sorry I don't want useless things. A training dummy fits that description compared to a real tool that measures actual performance in game.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Colobulous

[Matte_Black]

The game isn't scaled to have them so they are unneeded aids to overcome fairly easy difficulty and they frequently get misused. No need to have problems stemming from unneeded add-ons.

[Colobulous]

The game isn't scaled to have them so they are unneeded aids to overcome fairly easy difficulty and they frequently get misused. No need to have problems stemming from unneeded add-ons.

 

The game is scaled to have them. It's part of the trinity system.

[Lostfett]

I do not support an in game version of recount, nor do I support third party parsers. My reason is that I do not require it's use.

[Enundr]

i generally see no good purpose as how recount generally has worked in the past say for wow , i don't believe it accurately gathers data , there are variables that some addons just cant consider , there's the gear factor , whether someone has the right stats or not , whether they follow a boss mechanic or a healer / tank didn't do the fight mechanic and keep that dps up for example (raid healing) , and then it gets abused HORRIBLY just like gear score did , though GS was worse it can still be abused by morons who judge dps / hps and other factors on trash pull in general , when in the fact is theyll try to judge dungeons , flashpoints here i guess, where trash mobs will generally drop if 1 of the dps is geared out the rear and the other(s) aren't , and will fall behind in dps on those pulls. its a system that can be EASILY abused because most of the newer players love to for some odd reason , just like cross realm dungeons / aka dungeon finders where they can act like jerks and get away Scott free , but that's another topic.

[Enundr]

The game is scaled to have them. It's part of the trinity system.

 

actually Col no it is not , it may have the holy trinity , but the combat is different compared to wow for example. dont think the trinity system will make it the same.

[Zantheon]

I think this now on my moot list. People will fight over anything, hey lets add that crap recount and lets then just get dragon to type for us. Lazy.

[PsyloSatan]

The game isn't scaled to have them so they are unneeded aids to overcome fairly easy difficulty and they frequently get misused. No need to have problems stemming from unneeded add-ons.

 

There is no scale for recount. All it is is an easier way to read your combat log. If BioWare allows addons of any kind, this one is one of the most basic and would have to be shut down specifically. Internet nerds and geeks love numbers, and the only thing they want more is making those numbers easier to read. The only thing not having recount will do is make your raid leadre take more time to find out why you are wiping (or on a good note, things that helped you win such as a timely interrupt) so he can say "Yes, that action was correct." instead of "Hold on let me scroll through my combat log for 30 minutes." While us ADHD kids cant wait and prematurely pull the boss before he can figure out what needs to be done.

[Ewoktookmyspeedr]

However I would add something. Recount is the only addon I would be willing to go out on a limb for in this way. The concept of recount has a reasonable place in these kind of games, however, I think it should be implemented by the game designers to help eliminate inconsistencies and make it more than just a dps meter. There are alot of things that are important to gage in these games and the OP listed many of the most important ones. Tank avoidance mechanics along with absorbs and shield procs in this game could stand to be measured as well to help with gearing and stat priority at the end game. I don't see a good reason to limit what tools are available to players as a whole in an attempt to prevent what is ultimately an unchanging tendency of human nature. Elitism is engrained in our social system and will rear its ugly head in any way possible in any situation possible. People are nasty to eachother, and these games give folks who are nasty, or lack worth IRL, the means and method of abusing folks who they feel are beneath them for whatever reason. It doesn't matter why, it won't change no matter what they try to do with the mechanics. A jerk is gonna act like a jerk and that won't change either.

[PsyloSatan]

I think this now on my moot list. People will fight over anything, hey lets add that crap recount and lets then just get dragon to type for us. Lazy.

 

It was on my moot list when a DPS challenged my elitism. But Im stubborn as you can see

[Israel]

actually Col no it is not , it may have the holy trinity , but the combat is different compared to wow for example. dont think the trinity system will make it the same.

 

It is identical to WoW boss/combat mechanics. Which is a good thing.

[Colobulous]

actually Col no it is not , it may have the holy trinity , but the combat is different compared to wow for example. dont think the trinity system will make it the same.

 

Tell us exactly how it's different, and how meaningful it is. And no, gear is not an issue, you know why? Because gear versus performance is something that anybody can see already.

 

And FWIW, GS is off-topic for this thread, but you know...it could be based on the actual stats you use instead. Current WOW version actually does weight for that. Strange, huh?

 

Abuse? It exists without the tools, so you want to blame something? Blame the people, not the tool. Fix them.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Colobulous