Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[JansanRuno]

Would people be ok with it only telling you how much damage you are doing and not the other players?

[tehjosh]

Would people be ok with it only telling you how much damage you are doing and not the other players?

 

As long as it also tells me all of the other information in equal detail (healing, hps, interrupts, movement, actions, regen etc.) then yes I would be more then happy.

[Matte_Black]

DPS Meter are a simple way to measure Players Skill.

Player Skill is usefull clearing hard instances.

DPS Meter help getting the best skill tree tested out.

 

It's for real gamers, not the casual ones

 

sry bro, u mad now?

 

Pretty sure if what DPS meters measure is what you call skill, alot of people disagree with your definition of skill. Alot of other factor play a role in that final number and most of them lead toward a very specific style of play that not everyone wants to adhere to.

 

WoW may have been played one way but, this game seems more about story over stats and enjoying the game on your own terms. It's probably why add-ons like DPS meters and such were not allowed.

 

If there weren't the cases of such tools being misused I'd be all for letting others use what they like but, it never seems to play out that way and such add ons lead to narrowed selections of gearing and builds and out-of-scale focus on optimization and numbers that trivialize the designed difficulties of the game..

 

Ultimately, this is not a right or wrong issue but, one of they type game and community people prefer. Add-ons probably aren't for casual gamers but, that seems to be the preference that bioWare is looking to cater to.

[Colobulous]

Would people be ok with it only telling you how much damage you are doing and not the other players?

 

What would be the point?

 

You think people aren't going to want you to tell them? Or do you want to encourage a situation where people lie?

[PsyloSatan]

Would people be ok with it only telling you how much damage you are doing and not the other players?

 

Not really. As a healer, low dps means I step up my game. I enjoy that. But I still wanna see the numbers. Mainly because there is a difference between low DPS and DPS that dont know what they are doing. Im sure I could tell without it but it would take longer and I like to maximise my play time, and by extension, everyone else that doesnt have to wait for me to scroll through 50 pages of combat log.

[PsyloSatan]

Pretty sure if what DPS meters measure is what you call skill, alot of people disagree with your definition of skill. Alot of other factor play a role in that final number and most of them lead toward a very specific style of play that not everyone wants to adhere to.

 

WoW may have been played one way but, this game seems more about story over stats and enjoying the game on your own terms. It's probably why add-ons like DPS meters and such were not allowed.

 

If there weren't the cases of such tools being misused I'd be all for letting others use what they like but, it never seems to play out that way and such add ons lead to narrowed selections of gearing and builds and out-of-scale focus on optimization and numbers that trivialize the designed difficulties of the game..

 

Ultimately, this is not a right or wrong issue but, one of they type game and community people prefer. Add-ons probably aren't for casual gamers but, that seems to be the preference that bioWare is looking to cater to.

 

The only way to misuse recount is to not know how to read numbers. The crappy things people do with those numbers has nothing to do with recount other than it saved the wait between the douchbaggery and the combat log read.

 

If you raid with *********s...

 

With recount: Douchbaggery begins immediately and ends sooner

 

Without recount: You wait for 10 minutes for the douchbaggery to begin because the combat log takes forever to read and it ends the same way either way. You could have fit in another attempt at the boss but you wanted to do it the hard way.

[Jest]

How do you determine if that person is good? A hunch? The red bar went down faster?

 

By spending some time grouping with them in Non-Raid content. Having conversations. You know.. generally investing more interest in them than "Your 6k DPS.. good to go bro."

[thatnexkid]

Not really. As a healer, low dps means I step up my game. I enjoy that. But I still wanna see the numbers. Mainly because there is a difference between low DPS and DPS that dont know what they are doing. Im sure I could tell without it but it would take longer and I like to maximise my play time, and by extension, everyone else that doesnt have to wait for me to scroll through 50 pages of combat log.

 

This is very true. While people have often used a DPS meters for just that it served a much bigger purpose to those who utilized all available data that came from it. i.e. Damage taken, Dispels, Heals, etc etc. It allowed you to look at say a wipe and judge where the problems were coming from (healing output, senseless damage taken) and adjust your play accordingly on the next attempt.

[Phenyr]

yey I hope Elitist players wont turn this game into WoW.

[darthjerro]

no it starts to encourage competion in damage, which will snow ball to what WoW is like now, lets just be happy with what we have and as long as the enemy goes down thats all that matters in the end. Just dont see the point, its more fun to rely on skill and team work, rather than have it a numbers game, i hated that about WoW.

 

And this is all it comes down to really.

Bads vs goods.

 

Bads dont want it because they will get called out for being crap, then dropped and ridiculed UNTIL they make an effort to get better.

Goods NEED it to raid with and to make sure they are ontop of their game with rotation, gearing and specing right.

 

"encourage competion in damage" This is exactly the point..This is a GAME is it not. Games are played AGAINST other people.

Tennis is a GAME, The competition there is also fierce.Any GAME will have competition, its in the nature of the word. Without competion, what exactly is the point of playing? I could just go watch tv!!!

 

I strive to win. I strive to beat you. THIS IS MY FUN AND MY REASON why i play MMO's and fps.

Take that away from me, and ill go back to playing games like skyrim and mass effect full time again.

 

And lastly , you cant have skill without competition. The 2 go hand in hand. You mention you dont want competion in damage, yet then go on to mention how only skill should prevail? How does that work???

[DarthZail]

 

[Colobulous]

I would only support it if there was a restriction on how many times a DK..... opps I Meant burst damage obsessed numpties could spam the chat with his/her impressive AOE trash damage scores.

 

once every 8-10 years would be a good start

 

Shouldn't there be a throttle feature on chat anyway?

[DarthPeterNorth]

No need for recount, stop being a wow roar. Edited December 14, 2011 by DarthPeterNorth

[Matte_Black]

What would be the point?

 

You think people aren't going to want you to tell them? Or do you want to encourage a situation where people lie?

 

The point would be that it lets add-ons be an effective personal feedback tool while making it an ineffective means with which to judge other players and label them with a number in the manner that many disagree with. People could ask for your score but, it would lack the ease and reliability to judge others with because the score could be withheld or misrepresented.

[DozieDozie]

Recount in this game seems far less useful than in games like WoW where most classes are pure. In SWTOR every class is a hybrid, if you do nothing but try to DPS or Heal you will likely fail en encounter. Each class has crowd control tools, special tactics, and abilities that must be used properly in addition to the primary roll they are trying to fill in a particular group. Recount or any pure stats tool will never be able to reflect accuratly if these hybrid abilities are being used properly for an encounter.

 

So far in beta my feeling is if you are trying to "top the charts" your missing the point and don't know how to play this game.

 

Don't forget also, no white dammage in SWTOR. It's about using the correct skills at the correct times, not about how fantastic your toys are.

[JonnyFS]

I dont need a graph to kick Sith a.s.s. Edited December 14, 2011 by JonnyFS

[Colobulous]

The point would be that it lets add-ons be an effective personal feedback tool while making it an ineffective means with which to judge other players and label them with a number in the manner that many disagree with. People could ask for your score but, it would lack the ease and reliability to judge others with because the score could be withheld or misrepresented.

 

So what you're saying, instead of actual, honest, feedback on real data gathered through neutral means, you'd be encouraging people to either disregard others by refusing to share the information accurately, or worse yet to lie about it, in order to avoid criticism.

 

I do not think this will have the salutary results you expect.

 

It'll just result in more abuse, combined with a false sense of entitlement to keep your performance to yourself in a group.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Colobulous

[Jest]

And this is all it comes down to really.

Bads vs goods.

 

Bads dont want it because they will get called out for being crap, then dropped and ridiculed UNTIL they make an effort to get better.

Goods NEED it to raid with and to make sure they are ontop of their game with rotation, gearing and specing right.

 

Wrong. Most players never take the time to actually build a spreadsheet themselves and experiment with Builds so why should EVERYONE need Recount for that? They don't.

 

Very few people actually take the time to crunch the numbers and come up with the superior Builds and Rotations. Everyone else then copies those builds. The few people who create those builds and rotations will figure it out with or without Recount, so I'd rather the community at large not have a tool to use abusively.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Jest

[JonnyFS]

Add ons are for Sith noobs Edited December 14, 2011 by JonnyFS

[thatnexkid]

Recount in this game seems far less useful than in games like WoW where most classes are pure. In SWTOR every class is a hybrid, if you do nothing but try to DPS or Heal you will likely fail en encounter. Each class has crowd control tools, special tactics, and abilities that must be used properly in addition to the primary roll they are trying to fill in a particular group. Recount or any pure stats tool will never be able to reflect accuratly if these hybrid abilities are being used properly for an encounter.

 

So far in beta my feeling is if you are trying to "top the charts" your missing the point and don't know how to play this game.

 

Don't forget also, no white dammage in SWTOR. It's about using the correct skills at the correct times, not about how fantastic your toys are.

 

You're also missing out on the fact that Recount wasn't just used by pure damage classes to see 'how awesome they were'. It was used to raid leaders/group leaders to be able to quickly go through 3-4 different stats and see why/what the problem was in a group if it was not going smoothly. Being able to browse a 'damage taken/healing done/interrupts/dispels' tab was 4 tools not directly related to damage that would help you evaluate a group and suggest changes to players to help on encounters. i.e. a rogue who wasn't kicking or a healer who NEVER dispelled. These things were often times more important than the actual damage output of a group member.

[AlpsStranger]

More information is always better than less. I guess we'll just have to see what ends up being available.

[GalacticKegger]

It doesnt force deveopers to do anything. It makes something already in game easier to read. Thats it. Actually I guess it does one other thing:

 

Raid leader: Dude you wiped us because you werent paying attention to fire/debuff/reality

 

You: No I wasnt I was doing everything right! Im a super hero!

 

Raid leader: *Punches you in the mouth with proof of your failure including all numbers and times that you were failing*

 

You: Damn I got caught lying. Guess Ill have to get some skill.

The only Recount function that has core value is the combat log so players can revisit the fight and learn from what happened. Everything else is an epic FAIL byproduct that encourages adolescents to compare cup sizes. Size doesn't matter... situational awareness does. Edited December 14, 2011 by GalacticKegger

[Matte_Black]

So what you're saying, instead of actual, honest, feedback on real data gathered through neutral means, you'd be encouraging people to either disregard others by refusing to share the information accurately, or worse yet to lie about it, in order to avoid criticism.

 

I do not think this will have the salutary results you expect.

 

It'll just result in more abuse, combined with a false sense of entitlement to keep your performance to yourself in a group.

 

 

 

What I want, and where the divide is between you and those you are arguing against, is for players to stop seeking quick measures of other players and actually make their decisions on who is enjoyable to play with on terms beyond how much DPS they offer.

 

Some players are here to play out a story and not just a math problem so they don't want to the stats brought into the foreground of their experience. If a player does not share your view of the game and won't offer you the "accurate" number you want, you should probably both move on since you don't mix particularly well anyway. Frankly, if someone is going to bring up the pressure and demand a number, they should expect lacking info.

 

Yeah, dealing with people socially can take more time but, I'd rather deal with people on a fuller picture of how it is to play with them as opposed to whether they meet or exceed some fairly abitrary number in the head of the party leader.

 

*For the record, I would probably respond that, "I don't pay attention or use the recount measures so I don't make them available. I'll do my best with the skills and gear I have to make our group a success."

Edited December 14, 2011 by Matte_Black

[Maydayre]

Yes and no.

 

I support the idea of a damage parser that is for the player's own viewing with no option to share (except tell the truth or lie to a party member) the readings.

 

I believe that the cons beat the pro's, as simple as that. It's a tool that can be used in a way that makes the ToR community as hostile and anal about irrelevant things as WoW. ToR has completely different mechanics. For an example, I appreciate a good CC and supporter in ToR a lot. This can not be measured with damage parsers, nor can the reaction speed to changing situations. I do not wish to make this game another theorycraft playground for it has no need for it.

 

I understand that eventually WoW was driven to a point where theorycraft and breaking all the mechanics to a common knowledge was inevitable. It is unlikely that anyone agrees that this was a flaw on game design, but that's how I see it.

 

On the pro side, I think having a parser for your personal use could be a valuable tool for DPS classes to measure rotation effectiveness and get the kicks out of the tweaking. Unfortunately most people who'd use it, would still be bad with situational variables. But for those that truly can use it's potential, I believe it could be a good addition.

 

I do not consider myself a bad player and this is not a rant. I used recount in WoW as a DPS class. It made sense and I wished to improve. However, the improvement always felt very technical, not like in FFXI (as a great example) where the actual reaction and learning rotations through experience mattered more. I simply do not wish for any kind of tool that let's either the game or another player play the game for me by theorycraft rules.

[Gregarus]

Yes, I would like to see a recount-like addon in STWOR.

 

Yes, some people won't know how to read the numbers with the proper context and yes some people will use it to be "jerks" to other people. With or without a Recount-like addon the jerks will be jerks.

 

Without a Recount-like addon players that want to know if they are performing their role well will have a more difficult time doing that. Players (esp. DPSers) that want to improve won't have an easy way of knowing if new approaches/rotations/etc they try are making a difference. People that want to help other people will have one less tool to help with.

 

When a group fails repeatedly to take down a boss, most folks want to know why the group is failing so that they can remedy the problem(s). Given that recount isn't the end all and be all of useful information, with less real data, people will turn to speculation, which will be worse than having a Recount-like addon.

 

Last reason... I used to play WoW but stopped a few expansions ago. I played Warlock; another guy in my guild that used addons a lot played a rogue. We got to know each other and eventually had some friendly competitions going: we would have Recount (or whatever the equivalent damage meter was at the time) reset each time we engaged in combat. If I did everything right then I'd beat his damage about half the time. Over time, other DPSers in our raid groups found out what we were doing and got the same set up. It helped us keep our focus, especially on monotonous trash. The first time a second Warlock joined our little competition he was doing about 60-70% of the damage I was and his gear was only slightly inferior to mine. We talked after the raid. He tweaked his spec and made a few changes to his rotation. The next raid he was occasionally out DPSing me on some trash pulls and was much closer to me on boss fight DPS. We became and remained in-game friends for almost 2 years, until I quit playing.

 

Bottom line: Jerks will be jerks; Recount is just data.

Edited December 14, 2011 by Gregarus