XPredatorHunterX Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 You ***** about elitism but yet you bring your age and experience into it....same thing bud. I am 32 btw. There is no arguing with the FACT that a DPS meter/Combat log helps. I at no point said anything about elitism. Rather you not put words in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remidi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 THis game does punish you for deaths. Its called durability loss and time. Yes and a great way to avoid this is by having a meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuimboQuambo Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Wanting to be good is not elitism....we can argue definitions all day. Sorry nobody wants to wipe all day. After the 5th time I want to know who the hell is causing it. What kind of reply are you even trying to make... You said you want to be the best. Fits so perfectly well to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elitism Next time you accuse me of not understanding a word, I suggest you understand it by yourself first - or you risk to make a fool out of yourself again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrisonxxi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I agree. I also posit that instead of paying attention to trying to see who is causing us to wipe, I should focus on doing my damn job. The meter lets me tell what caused a wipe AFTER the fight is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovronius Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Its funny because most of the haters say how easy WoW is and all this other junk. It has the best profession system out of any game, Hah... SWG thank you very much... WoW has an abysmally simple profession system.. I personally am down with WoW and can't wait to play this --------> Sorry to break it to you, but there is a reason why WoW has a billion(sarcasm) subscribers. In order to succeed as an MMO you HAVE to copy from them. I'm sick of WoW! ... Now give me a WoW clone! The attitude of having to copy from WoW is what's caused such stagnation in the MMO market.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remidi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) I at no point said anything about elitism. Rather you not put words in my mouth. I am not. You are trying to demean me by saying I am being an elitist by what I am saying, when in reality I am not. you can be bad at DPs all you want. If you are I don't want you in my group. Now I am not going to demean someone and be an *** about it. Being an elitist means you are a ***** to others you feel or are "badder" than you. But then you try to use your age to make yourself "better" than me some how. its the same thing dude. Sorry you can't deal with the notion of having a meter. Edited December 14, 2011 by Remidi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remidi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) Hah... SWG thank you very much... WoW has an abysmally simple profession system.. I'm sick of WoW! ... Now give me a WoW clone! The attitude of having to copy from WoW is what's caused such stagnation in the MMO market.. There is a difference between copying and taking ideas. I am not sure where you have been but you do realize this is WoW reskinned as Star Wars? I think they did a great job doing so. Not to much and not to little. Edited December 14, 2011 by Remidi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antifaith Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) As a raid leader and a competitive raider, yes i whole heartedly support any diagnostic tool such as recount ect. Im not going to go over the pros and cons, the people that think recount is just for showing off dps arent going to be convinced by any rational argument as their claims are inherantly irrational. Not only do i support it, i believe it is required for top end competitive raiding. Edited December 14, 2011 by Antifaith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remidi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 As a raid leader and a competitive raider, yes i whole heartedly support any diagnostic tool such as recount ect. Im not going to go over the pros and cons, the people that think recount is just for showing off dps arent going to be convinced by any rational argument as their clames are inherantly irrational. Not only do i support it, i believe it is required for top end competitive raiding. It is. Without it there will be none. We both know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovronius Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 There is a difference between copying and taking ideas. I am not sure where you have been but you do realize this is WoW reskinned as Star Wars? Oh I am quite aware, you're the one that said you were done with WoW and couldn't wait to play this, I was pointing out the irony of your statement. There's a reason I'm playing a Bounty Hunter tank.. because it's about the most unique class in the game in comparison to not having a WoW equiv. Also, you said copy, not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebeldad Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Nope I dont care for it. I and the guild I am in do occasionally use a parser or such to work out rotation or such. BUT we are a casual guild and dont expect a certain level of dps, we expect people to have a good time and a good attitude. Being that we are an adult guild, for the most part, everyone tends to try and do their best and since we act more like an extended family and not a workplace, sharing rotations and ideas for certain builds comes naturally, not a requirement. Therefore I say yes some kind of parser or such would be nice but I don't think it should be public information, that can just create drama (and in my experience) narcissistic behavior that damages the guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hixt Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Immersion, which I already mentioned. The fact that if on average it increases player performance by 20%, raids will be tuned to be 20% harder...(Or more when people scream that Awesome guild A beat new content on first day so it needs to be harder!) In the end, you'll be right where you started. And then since they are tuned for this, the "option" of not using them goes, pffft, out the window. Multiple difficulties allow the devs to tune one for the people who don't care, one for the people doing there best but arn't looking to make things as difficult as possible and one for the hardcore balls to the wall type players, this is really a non-issue unless you feel like the hardest difficulties are something everyone should be able to clear without putting in much effort. Also, you will find far more people willing to play support/heal/tank roles when they don't have to constantly listen to DPS banter about their numbers. I know listening to that banter is what caused me to drop the healer gloves after 6 years of EQ healing and 2 years of WoW healing... So I could top the meters and then not say a word, and then rejoice in the silence. This is fear, your afraid people won't want to play healers and tanks because dps are going to discuss recount. I healed in wow on a druid since vanilla and recount never once factored into how much fun I was or was not having on him, so anecdotal evidence isn't much of an argument either. The reason people won't want to play healers and tanks is because they are the parts of the group with the most responsibility and most people don't want that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPredatorHunterX Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I am not. You are trying to demean me by saying I am being an elitist by what I am aying, but then you try to use your age to make yourself "better" than me some how. its the same thing dude. Sorry you can't deal with the notion of having a meter. Sir. You are the one who cant deal without having one. As I have already stated both side have merit. Going further you used the word FACT. Meaning you have some evidence from a scientific study that supports both side and an independent study that supports your FACTS. Would you care to share your finding to help the rest of us believe what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remidi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Oh I am quite aware, you're the one that said you were done with WoW and couldn't wait to play this, I was pointing out the irony of your statement. There's a reason I'm playing a Bounty Hunter tank.. because it's about the most unique class in the game in comparison to not having a WoW equiv. Also, you said copy, not me. Its like arguing with a child.... No kidding I said copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsyloSatan Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Back in the day when MMORPGs weren't dumbed down, you could use your common sense to determine whether a player was good or not. And even if they weren't - it was a game. It was supposed to be fun to hang around with some people, chat and kill stuff meanwhile. If you died you died and had a good time. Directly accountable... LOL... It's a game, not a court. So what? They aren't perfect? They don't admit it? So what? If you want a dumbed down game where social in-game life doesn't matter anymore at all, go back to WoW please. I prefer to talk to people instead of letting EXCEL speak for me. Elitism at its worst. You, Sir, are the best example of why Recount has to stay out of this game. You have no idea what you are talking about. There were still combat logs before recount. Making the DEFAULT COMBAT LOG easier to read had no impact on anything you are talking about except one thing. The baddies couldnt fail at reading it because they were way to bad to even know what a combat log does. You sir are the best example of bad by trying to be witty with zero information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovronius Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Not only do i support it, i believe it is required for top end competitive raiding. Turn off your targeting computer. If you wanted top end competitive raiding, wouldn't the bad*****es that could do the content sans meters be the top end competitive raiders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zocat Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 If it's not an option, an opinion won't be relevant. If it is an option, then you will at times be forced to play with people with differing opinions on it. What - how? How can you be forced to play with people? If someone says "Looking for someone for X" and you see that they use the recount then just dont join that group and look for a group which doesnt want to use it. The guy who's in favour of the recount just does the same. I'm thinking of a flag for the character (similiar how you can flag yourself for RP). And when you look at the char you'll see if he is in favour / against / doesnt care about recount. And since both sides here claim to have superior (or at least equal) percentages of the playerbase on their side you probably will not have to wait very long to find a group which does what you want to do and is having the same opinion as you have. I just dont understand you people sometimes. If I hate a certain kind of behaviour in some people I will try to avoid those people. Ignoring that behaviour doesnt change them - they're still idiots and I dont want to have anything to do with them. So giving me an option to see if they're idiots (from my pov) via something like a flag seems perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrisonxxi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 The reason people dont play healers is because they are far and away the most difficult class to play correctly. They also tend to be the hardest class to farm on as well. People dont play tanks because they dont like the verbal umbrage from players who have no clue how to tank, have never tanked before, trying to tell them how to tank and getting every minute bit of blame for everything that goes wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuimboQuambo Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 You have no idea what you are talking about. There were still combat logs before recount. There were different MMOS before WoW, you know? Some people here are older, so they didn't grow up with WoW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsyloSatan Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 What - how? How can you be forced to play with people? If someone says "Looking for someone for X" and you see that they use the recount then just dont join that group and look for a group which doesnt want to use it. The guy who's in favour of the recount just does the same. I'm thinking of a flag for the character (similiar how you can flag yourself for RP). And when you look at the char you'll see if he is in favour / against / doesnt care about recount. And since both sides here claim to have superior (or at least equal) percentages of the playerbase on their side you probably will not have to wait very long to find a group which does what you want to do and is having the same opinion as you have. I just dont understand you people sometimes. If I hate a certain kind of behaviour in some people I will try to avoid those people. Ignoring that behaviour doesnt change them - they're still idiots and I dont want to have anything to do with them. So giving me an option to see if they're idiots (from my pov) via something like a flag seems perfect. lol the flag idea made me laugh cuz it sounds awesome. I only fear it would lead to a new form of internet racism... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsyloSatan Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 There were different MMOS before WoW, you know? Some people here are older, so they didn't grow up with WoW. Ya, Im 30. Those older games had a combat log. Seems your age is messing with your memory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrisonxxi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 There was different mmos before wow, but that doesnt mean raiding was difficult. When the difficulty of the fight was determined by either a) whether you were a bard or b) how many clerics you had to spam one button every 10 seconds and c) determining who was going to eat the one shot, I challenge you to prove to me that the fight is difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remidi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Sir. You are the one who cant deal without having one. As I have already stated both side have merit. Going further you used the word FACT. Meaning you have some evidence from a scientific study that supports both side and an independent study that supports your FACTS. Would you care to share your finding to help the rest of us believe what you are saying. Are you trying to say it is not a fact that a recording tool to measure DPS would not help a DPS class do better DPS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrisonxxi Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I thought this was a discussion about recount, not personal attacks on other poster's. It's fact that people will have differing opinions on this issue, and also fact that it comes down to in the end the super carebear casuals vs the serious raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsyloSatan Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 There was different mmos before wow, but that doesnt mean raiding was difficult. When the difficulty of the fight was determined by either a) whether you were a bard or b) how many clerics you had to spam one button every 10 seconds and c) determining who was going to eat the one shot, I challenge you to prove to me that the fight is difficult. Raiding wasnt difficult before wow? What were you raiding? Legend of Zelda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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