Outraged! - chapter 2 spoilers right after Taris...

[IronSalamander]

I hated Hunter from the get go.

 

 

I wanted to gut the wretch at the end. "We had fun"? Um, no. You're lucky this game won't let me practice some of my death metal lyrics on you, you horrific waste of carbon. I gave him/her lip at every opportunity and gladly took 2 of my 4 darkside options in Kylania's entire story on this useless puke in the star chamber. The torture scene was the last straw and I retired my sniper as my main and my Chiss juggernaut (her and Vector's daughter) became my new main with vengeance in her heart.

 

[Acherom]

I hated Hunter from the get go.

 

 

The torture scene was the last straw and I retired my sniper as my main and my Chiss juggernaut (her and Vector's daughter) became my new main with vengeance in her heart.

 

Am I the only one who actually wasn't bothered by this scene?

 

Little bit of head canon of my own:

 

 

That part where you're tied to the chair and the one merc keeps cranking into you with the electricity... I was wiating for the dialog wheel to pop up so I could find the:

Agent: "*cough* Ah... *cough*"

Merc: "Had enough?"

Agent: "E-enough? Ha... haha... i-if you think; that will break me... You've quite obviously; never worked... for a Sith." and grin at him.

I've been shocked; and beaten, and thrown off cliffs, stomped by creatures 10x my size, nearly torn to shreds by the claws of wild rakghouls, burned by the galaxy's worst acidic toxins, you name it; I've been hit with it. I was fine during this scene: although partially maybe because I was running with Scorpio. By this point I had gotten used to her cold, calculated tactical read out of everything. Unless she spoke up with: "Vitals dropping. It is likely another shock will rupture something vital." I knew I would make it out.

 

As an aside; I see a lot of people who go on all out hate on Hunter. I can understand that; because I hated hunter to. The only reason I would not have killed hunter at the end; is because by that time I had grown to enjoy the chase more then the actual conflict we had. I saw hunter as someone who rivaled my skill; my own tenacity, but when it came to the end... Well Hunter was just a sad, broken little operative. It reminded me of something out of the Evangelion franchise (oddly enough); at that moment I saw that hunter was actually not my equal, and so I was more disappointed then anything.

 

Its like, here we have the big bad Hunter; who really was just a jr operative playing a script forced on to her. "Hunter" was my rival; not this person in front of me. The idea that the conspirators had this elite ace up their sleeve; that there was another me out there that I had to measure up against, you could almost say that was my driving force for a while. In the end; to find out it was really a ruse? I couldn't bring myself to blame the actor for the part they were standing in for.

 

[bright_ephemera]

Am I the only one who actually wasn't bothered by this scene?

 

Little bit of head canon of my own:

 

 

That part where you're tied to the chair and the one merc keeps cranking into you with the electricity... I was wiating for the dialog wheel to pop up so I could find the:

Agent: "*cough* Ah... *cough*"

Merc: "Had enough?"

Agent: "E-enough? Ha... haha... i-if you think; that will break me... You've quite obviously; never worked... for a Sith." and grin at him.

I've been shocked; and beaten, and thrown off cliffs, stomped by creatures 10x my size, nearly torn to shreds by the claws of wild rakghouls, burned by the galaxy's worst acidic toxins, you name it; I've been hit with it. I was fine during this scene: although partially maybe because I was running with Scorpio. By this point I had gotten used to her cold, calculated tactical read out of everything. Unless she spoke up with: "Vitals dropping. It is likely another shock will rupture something vital." I knew I would make it out.

 

Not the only one.

I found it a little distasteful - getting immobilized and beaten bloody for hours isn't my idea of a good time - but it didn't seem like much after everything else my character had been through.

 

It was, however, one of two moments when I was glad I had rolled male. The first was that original discovery of the codeword, when Ardun Kothe forces you through some physical exercises. In both cases I don't think I could've handle it from a female headspace. As a male character I could keep the emotional separation necessary to avoid getting freaked out.

 

As an aside; I see a lot of people who go on all out hate on Hunter. I can understand that; because I hated hunter to. The only reason I would not have killed hunter at the end; is because by that time I had grown to enjoy the chase more then the actual conflict we had. I saw hunter as someone who rivaled my skill; my own tenacity, but when it came to the end... Well Hunter was just a sad, broken little operative. It reminded me of something out of the Evangelion franchise (oddly enough); at that moment I saw that hunter was actually not my equal, and so I was more disappointed then anything.

 

Its like, here we have the big bad Hunter; who really was just a jr operative playing a script forced on to her. "Hunter" was my rival; not this person in front of me. The idea that the conspirators had this elite ace up their sleeve; that there was another me out there that I had to measure up against, you could almost say that was my driving force for a while. In the end; to find out it was really a ruse? I couldn't bring myself to blame the actor for the part they were standing in for.

 

 

I wasn't disappointed. She really, really seemed oddly shrunken by the end, but..."Hunter" was her construct, a face she put on what was still essentially her determination and her brilliance. She stepped up for that assignment and really believed in it. To hate Hunter's ideas and resent his skills - or respect, but I couldn't do that - was to hate and resent that woman.

 

I was disappointed that the tremendously powerful disguise technology was used only once, to make an almost wholly redundant statement of the theme that nothing is as it seems. You spend a planet on the disguise, ignore it for most of the game, and then bring it up once at the very end to tell me what I already knew?

 

[Acherom]

Not the only one.

I found it a little distasteful - getting immobilized and beaten bloody for hours isn't my idea of a good time - but it didn't seem like much after everything else my character had been through.

 

It was, however, one of two moments when I was glad I had rolled male. The first was that original discovery of the codeword, when Ardun Kothe forces you through some physical exercises. In both cases I don't think I could've handle it from a female headspace. As a male character I could keep the emotional separation necessary to avoid getting freaked out.

 

I was disappointed that the tremendously powerful disguise technology was used only once, to make an almost wholly redundant statement of the theme that nothing is as it seems. You spend a planet on the disguise, ignore it for most of the game, and then bring it up once at the very end to tell me what I already knew?

 

Will the spoilers ever end? I doubt it.

 

 

I remember that first mind-control scene to well. All that was running through my agent's head at the time was, "Oh-ho ho you bastard... you sly bastard... command me to tell you whats on my mind right now; so I can convey just how dead you are. You are so dead... dead dead dead. I'm going to kill you, and enjoy every second of it." He took a job, and made it personal. Granted, good ol' Agent Kol's best coping mechanism is a laugh and a bit of sarcastic humor.

 

And that disguise tech was a good point... I had actually forgotten about it after Tattoine because it dropped off the radar so abruptly. Why in the heck didn't we use something like that to infiltrate the SC and plant the information to trick them into action? The whole torture scene seemed... unnecessary? Like its sole purpose is to fill out Watcher 2's suppressed desire to hear your character tortured to death. ... ... for the good of the Empire; of course.

 

Edited May 23, 2012 by Acherom

[IronSalamander]

Well...

 

 

The whole torture scene was just not one I'd have entered at all had I not been railroaded into it, but the only reason I even kept playing at all was that Doc Lokin, who was with me for the ordeal, commented:"No permanent damage." when they dropped us off at the park. Can't be the beautiful and seductive Mata Hari type otherwise, and that was the only reason I kept going besides revenge on Hunter.

 

 

And Acherom, I felt the same way. As an agent we have to be prepared to be captured, but sent into the hands of these butchers intentionally? I want Watcher2/Keeper to die as well. Every time she came up with a "cunning plan" (intentional Baldric comparison here), I paid for her incompetence. She's got some payback coming if we get the chance.

 

Edited May 23, 2012 by IronSalamander

[Acherom]

Well...

 

 

The whole torture scene was just not one I'd have entered at all had I not been railroaded into it, but the only reason I even kept playing at all was that Doc Lokin, who was with me for the ordeal, commented:"No permanent damage." when they dropped us off at the park. Can't be the beautiful and seductive Mata Hari type otherwise, and that was the only reason I kept going besides revenge on Hunter.

 

 

And Acherom, I felt the same way. As an agent we have to be prepared to be captured, but sent into the hands of these butchers intentionally? I want Watcher2/Keeper to die as well. Every time she came up with a "cunning plan" (intentional Baldric comparison here), I paid for her incompetence. She's got some payback coming if we get the chance.

 

 

 

Watcher2: "I was monitoring your life signs while we were out of contact... I'm so very disappointed I didn't get to hear the sweet sound of it flat-lining... uh? Oh... must be the meds, I mean I'm glad you're alive, and I'm glad you won."

 

 

[Celacia]

I'm trimming for space, but yeah...

 

 

I had problems with Hunter from the end of Act 2. There were a lot of signs that the character was one sick puppy (like the flirting with Temple just to tell me to kill her a second later). But that whole line about "sweet nothings" was so sick. (Esp. as I'd flirted with Hunter - so it was like..."You didn't want this when it was consensual, but now...?")

 

Still, I flirted with Hunter after that, as it seemed like the best way of collecting information. (I mean, hanging up isn't going to get me the intel I need, now is it?) But it felt so...wrong. Like, here I'm flirting with someone who wants to violate my character in the worst possible ways. (Not to mention the utterly painful torture scene.) And it utterly creeped me out to get those little flashes of a vulnerable Hunter, and as the story went on, I became nearly 100% certain that my character was madly, passionately, crazily in love with this person. (Against anyone's better judgement.) It was utterly twisted and really sick. But that's definitely how it felt from the dialogue, voice acting, etc.

 

But at the same time, it was impossible for me *not* to agree with Hunter's goals once I heard them. And Hunter is special - she's probably the smartest character you run into, she's brilliant and beautiful and absolutely fascinating. It would be amazing to save the good parts of Hunter and heal the parts that are broken. (Although I suspect that would be close to impossible to do.) I can't help but think that a somewhat less twisted Hunter and the agent might well be able to achieve the ultimate goal - get rid of the Force users and create a world that's more equitable. Not that this will ever happen, but hey...

 

But, yeah, really engrossing narrative.

I am so very glad it was not just me. My friend finished the story a week or so ago, and we were very careful to not spoil anything for her

and I was dying to talk to her about Hunter the whole time, and she finished, and she hated him and she killed him. And then I told her about how Livia felt about him, and she was all, 'OMG, you're right,' and started crying for him. I kind of felt bad about doing that to her, like I had ruined her story.

 

It was, however, one of two moments when I was glad I had rolled male. The first was that original discovery of the codeword, when Ardun Kothe forces you through some physical exercises. In both cases I don't think I could've handle it from a female headspace. As a male character I could keep the emotional separation necessary to avoid getting freaked out.

 

About the Chapter 2 stuff more than the torture scene here: It was extremely difficult, even knowing what was coming. It brought up a lot of issues from my past that I wasn't aware were still sitting there waiting for something to stir them up. It had been a long, long time since I'd felt how simply wrecked it makes one to have one's agency stripped away and to have someone else's will drive one's actions. It was not something I'd intended to think about, or worse, feel, again.

 

It wasn't Kothe that was the problem - he had the whole stupid-Jedi vibe going on that implied that he would be above really messing with her. Chance was a gentleman about it. It was the thought of working under Hunter that terrified me. By the time you left that meeting you already knew he was a sadistic sob and was going to enjoy 'playing' with you. If not for his secret, what would he have done to her? I shudder to think. And what's worse? I really want to know.

 

Edited May 23, 2012 by Celacia

[bright_ephemera]

About the Chapter 2 stuff more than the torture scene here: It was extremely difficult, even knowing what was coming. It brought up a lot of issues from my past that I wasn't aware were still sitting there waiting for something to stir them up. It had been a long, long time since I'd felt how simply wrecked it makes one to have one's agency stripped away and to have someone else's will drive one's actions. It was not something I'd intended to think about, or worse, feel, again.

 

I won't say I know what you mean, but I sympathize. To sidetrack into a different story, it was similar unexpected personal stuff that dragged me into Quinn's plot.

To see someone so completely under my control, to hear him asking not to start, and to think that I wanted him and he had zero chance of stopping me...damn, man. You have just officially ensured that I will never let anything hurt you. I'm going to set things right, at least in this one version of the old story. Those were by far the hardest-hitting scenes of any BioWare game I've played.

 

 

Loss of agency = I'm pretty miserable. Again, I'm glad I chose a character so different from myself for the Agent line.

 

It was the thought of working under Hunter that terrified me. By the time you left that meeting you already knew he was a sadistic sob and was going to enjoy 'playing' with you. If not for his secret, what would he have done to her? I shudder to think. And what's worse? I really want to know.

 

You could not for love nor money get me to speculate on that. I rolled the whole sickening prospect into my hatred for Hunter.

Edited May 23, 2012 by bright_ephemera

[Celacia]

I won't say I know what you mean, but I sympathize. To sidetrack into a different story, it was similar unexpected personal stuff that dragged me into Quinn's plot.

To see someone so completely under my control, to hear him asking not to start, and to think that I wanted him and he had zero chance of stopping me...damn, man. You have just officially ensured that I will never let anything hurt you. I'm going to set things right, at least in this one version of the old story. Those were by far the hardest-hitting scenes of any BioWare game I've played.

 

I think that that is taking me in a different direction. My SW is only just off Balmorra and is already intoxicated by the way he is terrified of her advances. Whether she ends up really loving him or not she is going to deserve it when he jumps. Honestly, I am kind of worried that my husband is going to think less of me because of how she plays out.

 

You could not for love nor money get me to speculate on that. I rolled the whole sickening prospect into my hatred for Hunter.

I don't blame you at all. I am a little disturbed by how badly I want to know. I fully accept that nothing about how I (or Livia) feel about him is remotely healthy. (Except, possibly my profound relief that he is dead.)

 

Edited May 23, 2012 by Celacia

[bright_ephemera]

I think that that is taking me in a different direction. My SW is only just off Balmorra and is already intoxicated by the way he is terrified of her advances. Whether she ends up really loving him or not she is going to deserve it when he jumps. Honestly, I am kind of worried that my husband is going to think less of me because of how she plays out.

 

(Moar Quinn here: )

Ha! I know a lot of women who really enjoy the power trip there. For me, something he said early on tripped a switch in my head and from that moment on there was no way I was going to pull something before he said the word, or let anybody mess with him, or otherwise do anything but enjoy what he was willing to give. I have all this power now and I'm going to not-abuse the hell out of it. If I had a different background I could've read the whole dynamic differently, but there's really only one way it could've played for me.

 

Bastard.

 

My husband has this irritating habit of not getting overly emotionally involved with all his characters. So he can sit back and poke fun at me. He's the one who traipsed through a nearly-pure dark side Agent run and loved every minute of it.

[Darth_Victus]

Don't get me wrong. I play both sides, but the exact same thing can be said of Jedi. No matter how much you attempt to reason with them, be you sith or any other Imperial aligned species, they flaunt their self righteous attitudes and always attack. If anything, this makes Jedi the greater evil because of their hypocrisy.

 

This,

 

 

 

Currently playing the Bounty Hunter. In one of my class story arcs, I spared a Jedi after killing her master for a bounty. Later on she comes back with the SIS and wants to kill me, after evading capture again a jedi master sends a team to kill my new friends and previous winners of the Great Hunt. Crashed my party to,

 

[Celacia]

My husband has this irritating habit of not getting overly emotionally involved with all his characters. So he can sit back and poke fun at me. He's the one who traipsed through a nearly-pure dark side Agent run and loved every minute of it.

My husband's characters generally don't make moral choices that he wouldn't. Neither do mine, mostly - my SW is likely to be my darkest (withe the potential exception of my boys once I roll them out) - although their decisions are often more dictated by their personality than my own. The thing about his characters that makes me crazy is that his characters don't get enough lovin'. Super sexy spy man? Did not, in fact sleep his way around the galaxy. So sad. (Ahem. Husband, if you read this: They are your characters and you can play them however you want and I respect that. I am just whining. Really. You play them for you, and not for my vicarious amusement. I get enough of that with my own characters.)

[CloudCastle]

I keep telling my husband to hurry up and roll an agent because I'm dying to talk about the crazy plot with him. Very curious to see if he likes the story as much as I did. Right now we are duo-ing opposite AC sith warriors. We did that with smugglers too and it's fun because we do the class quests at the same time and then can compare notes. He'll be like, "Hey I can hear you laughing, what conversation choices did you make that are so funny?"

 

Anyway, back to the agent. I can't tell you how many times he'd walk in while I was playing Act II just in time to see me throw my face in my hands or exclaim, "no WAY!" about something. Or I'd be sitting there with my jaw hanging open, dumb-founded.

 

He's funny about the romances too though - doesn't want to do them usually. He says it's for IC reasons - he pictures his character a certain way and if the flirts don't match up, he doesn't take them. Finally he did Risha though and he came in looking all sheepish to tell me what fun it was. Ha ha!

[bright_ephemera]

I keep telling my husband to hurry up and roll an agent because I'm dying to talk about the crazy plot with him. Very curious to see if he likes the story as much as I did. Right now we are duo-ing opposite AC sith warriors. We did that with smugglers too and it's fun because we do the class quests at the same time and then can compare notes. He'll be like, "Hey I can hear you laughing, what conversation choices did you make that are so funny?"

 

My husband and I did this too! We usually game independently, or if one of us has played a game we'll watch the other play it for the first time and laugh or try not to laugh, as appropriate. But we happened to start two Agents and line up schedules, and overhearing each other's class scenes - he was female full DS, I was male lawful grey leaning towards LS - was a hoot.

 

He has a much easier time playing gleeful evil - it's how he blows off steam. I like to RP and stay in a character's headspace, so if my characater does something that I personally wouldn't do I need at least an understandable reason for it. (In the background: "Wheeeee!" as my husband blows up a planet.)

 

I'm exploring DS Inquisitor and Warrior, but I can't stay in character. I'm a player, hitting the really evil-sounding options when they come up, and often giggling at the result. It's a very different feeling from my usual RP. Contrast with the LS Warrior and the grey Smuggler, where I can sink right into the headspace even if some of the ethics and priorities are different.

 

Oh, my husband doesn't do romances, either - he thinks BW stinks at writing them. In the case of the female Agent (which is what he was playing), I have to agree. This did sometimes mean that my Agent class scenes took longer than his did...

[Celacia]

I keep telling my husband to hurry up and roll an agent because I'm dying to talk about the crazy plot with him. Very curious to see if he likes the story as much as I did. Right now we are duo-ing opposite AC sith warriors. We did that with smugglers too and it's fun because we do the class quests at the same time and then can compare notes. He'll be like, "Hey I can hear you laughing, what conversation choices did you make that are so funny?"

He started his agent before mine - we duoed him and my Inquisitor. I finished mine before his. (But only by a couple of hours, because I made him wait, and he was gracious enough to do so.) We have another guildie who just started one, and it is killing me (just like it did with the last friend who did one) because I want to talk about it so much.

He's funny about the romances too though - doesn't want to do them usually. He says it's for IC reasons - he pictures his character a certain way and if the flirts don't match up, he doesn't take them. Finally he did Risha though and he came in looking all sheepish to tell me what fun it was. Ha ha!

He ended up romancing Mako, and it was cute. His agent took Ensign Temple out once or twice and then he let her down gently, because she was too crazy for him. He would totally romance Vector given the chance, though.

[bright_ephemera]

He started his agent before mine - we duoed him and my Inquisitor. I finished mine before his. (But only by a couple of hours, because I made him wait, and he was gracious enough to do so.) We have another guildie who just started one, and it is killing me (just like it did with the last friend who did one) because I want to talk about it so much.

 

Oh. Oh, dear.

 

So around the end of Act 1, I had a big day at work coming up. I stayed up late to finish the act while my husband went to bed. The following day, he had the day off, I worked.

 

I get home, totally psyched to talk about the big scene:

Me: So, what'd you do?

 

Him, grinning: Joined Jadus and sicced the Eradicators on our enemies.

 

Me: :eek: I didn't even know that was an option!

 

Him: It was my first reaction to the setup.

 

Me: I leave you unattended for eight hours and you personally hit the switch to murder tens of millions of people across a dozen-plus worlds!

 

Him: Yup! So how was your day?

 

Me: ... I want a divorce.

 

Him: You said that after I destroyed the ecosystem of an entire KOTOR planet, too. Come on, I can't wait to see how you handle Ardun Kothe!

 

 

Edited May 23, 2012 by bright_ephemera

[IronSalamander]

Some views I had on this whole thing:

 

I actually agree with the cabal's original purpose that the common people suffer for the force-user's little holy war. But they just went too far and became the thing they hate. My agent ended up light 5, lost it briefly due to an apparent math error in the last quest (200 light -150 dark is not 150 dark, the quest dialog even gave the proper net of +50 light but my light 5 relic shut off till I ran BT a couple times), and then got it back again. She really did want to make the empire a better place, especially for the little guy and being Chiss she had to deal with the empire's nonsensical racism way too often, so also to show that other races can contribute to the empire.

 

 

On Quinn (Act 3 SW & Quinn story spoilers):

 

When the little weasel betrayed me I took the darkside option since she has a lot of rage for her mother's plight and has 6850 light/4400 dark so he needed to suffer. I tossed him around like a ragdoll and force choked him all over the chamber and thoroughly enjoyed it. Since she is also married to my Mirialan Sorceress thanks to the legacy tree, I also turned him down when he proposed, and then toyed with him in the last dialog just to show him I won't forgive this kind of thing. The only reason I didn't just kill him is that I couldn't.

 

[Celacia]

Oh. Oh, dear.

 

So around the end of Act 1, I had a big day at work coming up. I stayed up late to finish the act while my husband went to bed. The following day, he had the day off, I worked.

 

I get home, totally psyched to talk about the big scene:

Me: So, what'd you do?

 

Him, grinning: Joined Jadus and sicced the Eradicators on our enemies.

 

Me: :eek: I didn't even know that was an option!

 

Him: It was my first reaction to the setup.

 

Me: I leave you unattended for eight hours and you personally hit the switch to murder tens of millions of people across a dozen-plus worlds!

 

Him: Yup! So how was your day?

 

Me: ... I want a divorce.

 

Him: You said that after I destroyed the ecosystem of an entire KOTOR planet, too. Come on, I can't wait to see how you handle Ardun Kothe!

 

Bahahahaha. I am sorry. That is kind of awesome, in an awful way. My husband and I made the same choice as each other at that point:

fired the Eradicators to distract him, fought and trapped him. it was an awful, terrible thing to do, but worth it. He was such a monster. His poor, crazy daughter.

 

Edited May 23, 2012 by Celacia

[CloudCastle]

I think I took what was probably the full light side version for my Act I ending.

 

 

Went against Watcher 2's advice and did a "suicide mission" to shut off everything without firing any Eradictors. So no one died and my agent ended up less traumatized than most. It was Act II and III that threw her for a loop.

 

[Kalterien]

(Moar Quinn here: )

Ha! I know a lot of women who really enjoy the power trip there. For me, something he said early on tripped a switch in my head and from that moment on there was no way I was going to pull something before he said the word, or let anybody mess with him, or otherwise do anything but enjoy what he was willing to give. I have all this power now and I'm going to not-abuse the hell out of it. If I had a different background I could've read the whole dynamic differently, but there's really only one way it could've played for me.

 

Bastard.

 

Edited it a bit for length but what the heck did the Quinn-ster say? You've piqued my curiosity....

 

By the way.. I loved Hunter and the crazy dynamic my IA had with this particular character. Strangely enough, this was one story I managed to NOT youtube the entirety of, unlike that other class *coughSWcough*.

I finished this last night and my mind is still blown.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Kalterien

[bright_ephemera]

Bahahahaha. I am sorry. That is kind of awesome, in an awful way. My husband and I made the same choice as each other at that point:

fired the Eradicators to distract him, fought and trapped him. it was an awful, terrible thing to do, but worth it. He was such a monster. His poor, crazy daughter.

 

I think it is in an Act 2 scene for Jadus supporters that you get even more horrifying details about how Jadus treated Zhorrid. There's a whole story about singing lessons that I didn't trigger in my own playthrough, but I've heard the rumors.

 

 

Edited it a bit for length but what the heck did the Quinn-ster say? You've piqued my curiosity....

 

 

heh. It's awfully specific, but in Act 2 when Quinn opened with "I should have said from the beginning," that was familiar. I started projecting and didn't stop. What's that, you're not at all in control, you didn't know how to react from the start, some could claim you've been leading me on, you do kind of want me but you have doubts, you're miserably uncomfortable and conflicted and you're not even sure you have the right to say no at this point?

 

And you still have the guts to face me and say we shouldn't do this?

 

Here. I have a whole list of the chances you deserve to have that not everybody gets. I won't push, prod, grab, demand, or do anything 'til you know you're ready. If we were equals, if you had a chance in hell at stopping me, maybe I would press like I want to; but we're not, you don't, and I won't.

 

There were two marvelous Warrior lines to fit this interpretation. One is after Flirting Evasion #11 or thereabouts, the Warrior can finally say "If you're not interested, just say so." The conversation ends there; I stopped initiating [Flirt]s after that. When he brought up the topic again to shoot me down I got to say something like "Okay. I'm interested, and if you change your mind I'll be here, but I won't push it." Made me want to cheer...in a "I'm glad I like him even without the romantic angle, because I don't think sex will ever happen" kind of way. He had my absolute attention and sympathy after that sequence, like no game character I've met before or since.

 

And, um, you can bet I jumped him hard before he was quite finished saying "Permission to kiss you, my lord" later on.

 

I feel like I should add something about the original topic, so, um, the Agent line is awesome. Wow. I was determined that my grey Agent would be all "my Empire, right or wrong," but the twists and hard loyalty checks really tested my resolve.

[Celacia]

I think it is in an Act 2 scene for Jadus supporters that you get even more horrifying details about how Jadus treated Zhorrid. There's a whole story about singing lessons that I didn't trigger in my own playthrough, but I've heard the rumors.

 

It's in the conversation you have with her before you go see him at the end of Ch. 1. I didn't get it either, because I didn't ask her the right things, but my husband did. So sad. The poor thing.

 

[Kalterien]

You know, I felt kind of sorry for Zhorrid.. even though she was a horrid person. Poor poor abused Zhorrid.

[Mutive]

 

I wasn't disappointed. She really, really seemed oddly shrunken by the end, but..."Hunter" was her construct, a face she put on what was still essentially her determination and her brilliance. She stepped up for that assignment and really believed in it. To hate Hunter's ideas and resent his skills - or respect, but I couldn't do that - was to hate and resent that woman.

 

 

 

Hunter does seem shrunken by the end. But, OTOH, she's just been beaten and knows she's going to die. That's got to be a blow. (And she seems to really flare up towards the end. Like, whatever is wrong with her has just spiked.)

 

Hunter was definitely a construct, but so is Cipher Nine. I found it interesting that she seems to remove the disguise at the end in large part to attempt to talk to you as two real people, rather than as two actors in a play. But still, Hunter is *her* construct - the plans, the quick thinking, the ruthlessness, the sheer ability - these are all hers. (And she's still a sarcastic, arrogant bastard, even if she has been taken down a notch.) I find it hard to say that Hunter is suddenly no longer Hunter at the bitter end. Yes, you realize that there's a facet to the character that is doubting and perhaps even self hating. But in many ways, that makes me like the character better. I have a hard time buying that someone as bright as Hunter seems to be doesn't - at least to some extent - question what she's doing and realize that some of it is pretty terrible stuff.

 

[Mutive]

 

I've been shocked; and beaten, and thrown off cliffs, stomped by creatures 10x my size, nearly torn to shreds by the claws of wild rakghouls, burned by the galaxy's worst acidic toxins, you name it; I've been hit with it. I was fine during this scene: although partially maybe because I was running with Scorpio. By this point I had gotten used to her cold, calculated tactical read out of everything. Unless she spoke up with: "Vitals dropping. It is likely another shock will rupture something vital." I knew I would make it out.

 

 

 

It bothered me, but less than a huge portion of the plot. In many ways, I was honestly more disturbed by the fact that Watcher 2/Keeper so callously ordered me to be tortured than the torture itself. (There's something pretty ghastly about that - like, she knew what would happen but just didn't care as long as it got her what she wanted. I like W2, but man is that ruthless...) As you said, the character has been pretty badly tortured prior to this. In many ways, what upset me more is that people who are supposedly on my side are totally cool with this happening to me.