MorgothPl Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 So, we all know that it should be Sith Empire to be the evil ones. Dark COuncil members take lolipops from children, Imperials walk on flowers, drop trash on the streets and so on. Buuuut.... On the "good" Republic side we have Var Suthra and Godera working on their projects, that are more evil than anything Siths can cough up. We also have things like Barrager and Republic officers stating "Hell with other planets, it may kill this one, but it will protect Coruscant".... or officers stating "Destroy best farmlands on this planet. It's military operation not scientific one".... and suddenly the choice of killing jaggalores on Corellia for Imperial characters sems trivial Then we have Belsavis - secret prison for those who just say one word against Republic, with genetic experiments, xenobilogists running rampart on aliens, where people are in prison for the crimes their ancestors done. Yeah right, the Empire is evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) So, we all know that it should be Sith Empire to be the evil ones. Dark COuncil members take lolipops from children, Imperials walk on flowers, drop trash on the streets and so on. Buuuut.... On the "good" Republic side we have Var Suthra and Godera working on their projects, that are more evil than anything Siths can cough up. We also have things like Barrager and Republic officers stating "Hell with other planets, it may kill this one, but it will protect Coruscant".... or officers stating "Destroy best farmlands on this planet. It's military operation not scientific one".... and suddenly the choice of killing jaggalores on Corellia for Imperial characters sems trivial Then we have Belsavis - secret prison for those who just say one word against Republic, with genetic experiments, xenobilogists running rampart on aliens, where people are in prison for the crimes their ancestors done. Yeah right, the Empire is evil Uh, obviously that's untrue considering what happens near the end of the Jedi Knight's Act 1. The Desolator was not one of the Republic's research projects. And the one planet destroying weapon the Republic created by accident was immediately banned from further testing. When the Empire stole it, they deployed it immediately to destroy a planet in order to kill one individual. And that's just counting what happens in TOR. Darth Nihiuls used sith teachings at Trayus Academy on Malachor V to devour entire planets. He was also worse than what Var Suthra and Godera were doing. Edited May 19, 2012 by OldVengeance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimirz Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Uh, obviously that's untrue considering what happens near the end of the Jedi Knight's Act 1. The Desolator was not one of the Republic's research projects. And the one planet destroying weapon the Republic created by accident was immediately banned from further testing. When the Empire stole it, they deployed it immediately to destroy a planet in order to kill one individual. And that's just counting what happens in TOR. Darth Nihiuls used sith teachings at Trayus Academy on Malachor V to devour entire planets. He was also worse than what Var Suthra and Godera were doing. You forgot to mention that not everyone "who says a word against the Republic" goes to Belsavis. Only the worst criminals in the Republic go there. The worst thing with Belsavis is that their children are forced to stay there aswell, even if they didn't do anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temeluchus Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) Uh, obviously that's untrue considering what happens near the end of the Jedi Knight's Act 1. The Desolator was not one of the Republic's research projects. And the one planet destroying weapon the Republic created by accident was immediately banned from further testing. When the Empire stole it, they deployed it immediately to destroy a planet in order to kill one individual. And that's just counting what happens in TOR. Darth Nihiuls used sith teachings at Trayus Academy on Malachor V to devour entire planets. He was also worse than what Var Suthra and Godera were doing. The Barrager,Shock Drum,Planet Prison were all in Var Suthra's superweapons project, so you are incorrect in there being just one planet destroying superweapon. Let's not forget friggin Hammer Station, which was capabale of destroying entire cities in one shot and given enough time could provide a ELE on any planet. Don't forget Revan,with his Republic and Jedi backing, and his genocidal droids. Then of course you have the Power Guard project,the various other illegal experiments and projects going on in Belsavis. I bring these up not to further the OP's point, only to illustrate that both sides are capable of cruelty and evil, and both sides are capable of creating weapons to ensure the destruction of the other without thinking of the cost to planets,civilians and galaxies that get in the way. I've always said the Sith Empire and Republic don't exist as pure good versus evil, or black and white, they both exist in shades of gray. The only major difference is the Sith Lords are overt in their actions while the Republic tries to keep their questionable actions covert. Edited May 19, 2012 by Temeluchus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimirz Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 The Barrager,Shock Drum,Planet Prison were all in Var Suthra's superweapons project, so you are incorrect in there being just one planet destroying superweapon. Let's not forget friggin Hammer Station, which was capabale of destroying entire cities in one shot and given enough time could provide a ELE on any planet. Don't forget Revan,with his Republic and Jedi backing, and his genocidal droids. Then of course you have the Power Guard project,the various other illegal experiments and projects going on in Belsavis. I bring these up not to further the OP's point, only to illustrate that both sides are capable of cruelty and evil, and both sides are capable of creating weapons to ensure the destruction of the other without thinking of the cost to planets,civilians and galaxies that get in the way. I've always said the Sith Empire and Republic don't exist as pure good versus evil, or black and white, they both exist in shades of gray. The only major difference is the Sith Lords are overt in their actions while the Republic tries to keep their questionable actions covert. I am not that far in the Jedi Knight story, but: The Planet Prison didn't destroy Planets, it only disabled fleets and prevented ships to enter and leave the planet. Also the Hammer Station was supposed to be destroyed they just failed to do so properly. And I also doubt that Revan said "Hey, could I get some troops, ships and Jedi to protect a Space Station where I will create Droids for a mass genocide? K, thanks!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Solrac Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 All in all, even with the BS stereotypically evil way the ENTIRE Sith Empire is portrayed alot.....yes they still fit the societal conventional mold of 'evil'. They were designated as the bad guys by Lucas, BW, etc. The Republic is hardly a saint tho..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlequintwo Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 I don't think that the Empire's entirely exempt from being evil (shades of grey is definately the better term), but it's true that the Republic (at least in this era) has done some pretty questionable things. In the Agent storyline: The SIS force you against your will with mind control and almost liberate and unleash those Superweapon missiles on Quesh. Although you stop them so it's all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorgothPl Posted May 19, 2012 Author Share Posted May 19, 2012 I might put it all wrong - there is no doubt, that Empire is "evil"... tortures, plots, treasons, attacks on innocent planets. At least they do not hide it. There is no "moral" crusade, just everyone knows, that Siths want to enslave galaxy. Republic however pretends to be good and shiny, and has lots of skeletons in cupboard. Like in that quest in Belsavis where you are to capture scientists from Rodians. Republic scientists just say "We done nothing wrong, all we did was just for science" followed with Imperial response with. "Ah science, the bastion of conscience for those truly amoral". It seems, if not for the Jedi, most of Var Suthra's things would be operational, same as with those experiments being done on Belsavis.... speaking not of what's happening on Coruscant - bribes, gangs whatever else there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookist Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 I see you're point to some degree. Yes the Republic is not all unicorns and rainbows, but they are multiple planets. It would be weird if they were. And then everyone would be complaining about how the Republic is "SO perfect". While both do exist in shades of grey I do think the Empire is perhaps a darker shade. Also on Voss I do remember a Sith stating that the Voss should join the Empire because of the Republic has more rules and morals than the Empire does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Solrac Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) I see you're point to some degree. Yes the Republic is not all unicorns and rainbows, but they are multiple planets. It would be weird if they were. And then everyone would be complaining about how the Republic is "SO perfect". While both do exist in shades of grey I do think the Empire is perhaps a darker shade. Also on Voss I do remember a Sith stating that the Voss should join the Empire because of the Republic has more rules and morals than the Empire does. The Republic was also performing sick experiments on its prisoners there who's rights it had long suspended on nearby Belsavis.... Edited May 19, 2012 by Darth_Solrac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 The Barrager,Shock Drum,Planet Prison were all in Var Suthra's superweapons project, so you are incorrect in there being just one planet destroying superweapon. Let's not forget friggin Hammer Station, which was capabale of destroying entire cities in one shot and given enough time could provide a ELE on any planet. Don't forget Revan,with his Republic and Jedi backing, and his genocidal droids. Then of course you have the Power Guard project,the various other illegal experiments and projects going on in Belsavis. I bring these up not to further the OP's point, only to illustrate that both sides are capable of cruelty and evil, and both sides are capable of creating weapons to ensure the destruction of the other without thinking of the cost to planets,civilians and galaxies that get in the way. I've always said the Sith Empire and Republic don't exist as pure good versus evil, or black and white, they both exist in shades of gray. The only major difference is the Sith Lords are overt in their actions while the Republic tries to keep their questionable actions covert. Only the Shock Drum was capable of destroying planets. And that was created by accident. And the Republic abandoned Hammer Station rather than using it against the Empire. And the Republic's use of the Power Guard Project used only volunteers and didn't murder any of them. Once the Empire stole the project they operated it far more unethically, by kidnapping subjects and wiping their minds. The major difference is that not only are the Sith Lords more overt about their evil actions, they commit overwhelmingly more of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirandel Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Was always wondering if people are serious stating such things or just trolling. OMG! Republic has one bad general!!! Evil Republic!!! "Evilness" is a general politics, not a couple of people on every side. In fascistic Germany there were plenty of antifascists, yet you do not call that country saint. In modern States you can find open racists, but it does not mean country is evil and racism is an official propaganda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velaran Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 Has anyone done Taris as a Sith Warrior? The Republic is attempting to use the remains of the untold billions who died in the bombing to fuel more powerful weapons. That seems pretty evil to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) Not as evil as what the Empire is doing. They are trying to wipe out a struggling settlement on a devastated world just to send a message to the galaxy. Also all those people who were killed were killed by a Sith Lord. Edited May 19, 2012 by OldVengeance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bookist Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 The Republic was also performing sick experiments on its prisoners there who's rights it had long suspended on nearby Belsavis.... First off, that does not negate my point. And second it was not the Republic it was a single senator and I'm pretty sure the rest of the Republic did not approve when it found out.. Also every government has some morally lousy people. It's the nature of the beast. Then when I compare them to the empire...The empire is still worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Solrac Posted May 19, 2012 Share Posted May 19, 2012 First off, that does not negate my point. And second it was not the Republic it was a single senator and I'm pretty sure the rest of the Republic did not approve when it found out.. Also every government has some morally lousy people. It's the nature of the beast. Then when I compare them to the empire...The empire is still worse. Yes the empire is worse, I already stated why too. However, it wasn't just one Senator. The S.C. knew, approved of it, & its implementation. I'm willing to bet the majority of the Senate did too. Just like they approved of the Galactic Republic getting the genocide bouncy ball rolling in the first place when it tried to exterminate the ENTIRE Sith Imperial nation/civilization...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temeluchus Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) Yes the empire is worse, I already stated why too. However, it wasn't just one Senator. The S.C. knew, approved of it, & its implementation. I'm willing to bet the majority of the Senate did too. Just like they approved of the Galactic Republic getting the genocide bouncy ball rolling in the first place when it tried to exterminate the ENTIRE Sith Imperial nation/civilization...... There it is, the ultimate reasoning in why this Republic isn't as saintly and good as it is portrayed to be. If they had invaded Sith space, garrisoned troops, refused to allow any type of Sith military(aside from a small,token defense force) and kept restrictions in place you could argue that the current war being fought would not be happening or at the very least the Republic would be facing a smaller and less determined foe. But they let their emotions and anger of the Great Hyperspace War get the better of them and engaged in a scorched earth campaign that resulted in Vitiate fleeing with some other Sith and stumbling across DK, becoming the Emperor and militarizing, hellbent on revenge. Edited May 20, 2012 by Temeluchus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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