karajohn Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Is it possible for a republic vanguard to dps in operations for pve since 1.2 ?? Which talent build you would suggest and why ?? Thanks karajohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzoo Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 It does OK dps in PvE. No reason you can't take a vanguard to an op for dps. You're much better off with a sentinel, but that's not vanguard's fault. Both Tactics and Assault are viable. Assault is better dps, Tactics is (marginally) better mobility (hold the line will have moments of brilliance in ops). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 It does OK dps in PvE. No reason you can't take a vanguard to an op for dps. You're much better off with a sentinel, but that's not vanguard's fault. Both Tactics and Assault are viable. Assault is better dps, Tactics is (marginally) better mobility (hold the line will have moments of brilliance in ops). Well of course you'd take the #1 DPS over the #2 if you could. But than after the Vanguard every other class comes beneath. So unless you want a full raid of Sentinels you'll need to add some variety Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsie Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 It does OK dps in PvE. No reason you can't take a vanguard to an op for dps. You're much better off with a sentinel, but that's not vanguard's fault. Both Tactics and Assault are viable. Assault is better dps, Tactics is (marginally) better mobility (hold the line will have moments of brilliance in ops). If you're not satisfied with your class, then go reroll and get off this class forum. VG dps is doing extremely well right now, and sentinels are more of a hindrance to an ops group than they're worth more often than not due to the higher skill cap on the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karajohn Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 I am satisfied with the vanguard i like him better than my shadow i think i just needed some information i never said that i dont like the vanguard i just asked if its possible for him to dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsie Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 I am satisfied with the vanguard i like him better than my shadow i think i just needed some information i never said that i dont like the vanguard i just asked if its possible for him to dps. Please read quoted text to get better context - I was directing that toward the individual that decided to bring up sentinels in a VG thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzoo Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 If you're not satisfied with your class, then go reroll and get off this class forum. VG dps is doing extremely well right now, and sentinels are more of a hindrance to an ops group than they're worth more often than not due to the higher skill cap on the class. How in the world did you get "I am not satisfied with Vanguard PvE dps" from me saying that sentinels are better? They are. They may allegedly take more skill to play but it's pretty clear that they are the superior choice. I never said that you need to stack them to succeed in ops or anything. Also you mean skill floor, not skill cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsie Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 How in the world did you get "I am not satisfied with Vanguard PvE dps" from me saying that sentinels are better? They are. They may allegedly take more skill to play but it's pretty clear that they are the superior choice. I never said that you need to stack them to succeed in ops or anything. Also you mean skill floor, not skill cap. No, I mean skill cap. They're both equally easy to do decent numbers on. However there's not much room to min-max a VG, but you can do plenty to make a Sentinel better. There is no "allegedly", sentinels require more skill to get the most out of the class but they definitely have a higher ceiling. That said, you should never tell a new person to roll the flavor of the month class. It's eventually going to get balanced back to the pack so they're better off playing a class they enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_FLIPmode Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 We do PVE DPS just fine. Also I would expect Sentinels to be a little bit better at dishing out dps simply because all they are good for is putting out dps. Vanguards have more versatility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arzoo Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) No, I mean skill cap. They're both equally easy to do decent numbers on. However there's not much room to min-max a VG, but you can do plenty to make a Sentinel better. There is no "allegedly", sentinels require more skill to get the most out of the class but they definitely have a higher ceiling. That said, you should never tell a new person to roll the flavor of the month class. It's eventually going to get balanced back to the pack so they're better off playing a class they enjoy. I told him Vanguard was fine. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I think taking anything other than sentinel is bad. Edited May 6, 2012 by Arzoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) We do PVE DPS just fine. Also I would expect Sentinels to be a little bit better at dishing out dps simply because all they are good for is putting out dps. Vanguards have more versatility. In PvE? What other versatility or utility do we have there? Unless you are talking about spec'n Tank and tanking thing, but that doesn't mean anything when you have DPS Specs doing well, DPS. Predation/Transcendence and Bloodthirst/Inspiration are *AMAZING* group abilities Sents/Maras bring that far exceeds any Utility us as DPS Bring. While I love PT/VG Dps. Just trying to clarify on that comment Edited May 6, 2012 by exphryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_FLIPmode Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) Yeah you're right, I should have worded my response better. That being said, on all the opperations I have attended (everything up to EC HM), no one had any complaints about my dps. Heck I even helped save my group from an impending wipe on Kephess (lot of new people were in the group that time) by using my taunt to avoid getting the main tank one shotted after our designated off-tank lagged out. Edited May 7, 2012 by The_FLIPmode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karajohn Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Guys thanks for the tips now if u could please tell me which specc is better for dps assault or tactics Thanks a lot everyone karajohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosomanic Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) Guys thanks for the tips now if u could please tell me which specc is better for dps assault or tactics Thanks a lot everyone karajohn There's no way to know exactly. Here's the problem with DPS parsing: There is no "best" class in this game. There simply isn't. There is, however, a best class/spec for any given player. That would be the spec that most closely fits how you like to play, the one that feels most natural and smooth to you. You will always perform best if you use that class/spec, regardless of what other people insist is "best". So if we have someone who is a natural Assault player who parses both Assault and Tactics, he's going to come to the conclusion that Assault is better. This might be because Assault really is, but it also might be because the Assault rotation comes more naturally to him. Even slight rotation problems can lead to significant DPS drops. The only thing we can say with any surety is that Assault and Tactics are really close. Let's say that Assault was hypothetically better by a small margin (<5% DPS). It would still be better for you to play Tactics if that's what feels natural to you. So don't go by which supposedly has better DPS, go by what feels best when you play it. TL;DR: They're the same. Play the one that feels most natural to you. Edited May 7, 2012 by Philosomanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karajohn Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Thanks a lot i think i am covered with the last answer this is true about swtor and thats why i like swtor a lot there is balance i think . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsie Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 There's no way to know exactly. Here's the problem with DPS parsing: There is no "best" class in this game. There simply isn't. There is, however, a best class/spec for any given player. That would be the spec that most closely fits how you like to play, the one that feels most natural and smooth to you. You will always perform best if you use that class/spec, regardless of what other people insist is "best". So if we have someone who is a natural Assault player who parses both Assault and Tactics, he's going to come to the conclusion that Assault is better. This might be because Assault really is, but it also might be because the Assault rotation comes more naturally to him. Even slight rotation problems can lead to significant DPS drops. The only thing we can say with any surety is that Assault and Tactics are really close. Let's say that Assault was hypothetically better by a small margin (<5% DPS). It would still be better for you to play Tactics if that's what feels natural to you. So don't go by which supposedly has better DPS, go by what feels best when you play it. TL;DR: They're the same. Play the one that feels most natural to you. For the most part I tend to subscribe to the same school of thought, but there are definitely some class specs that far outperform others (both in individual situations and over the long haul). In those situations, you're doing yourself and your raid group a disservice by not choosing the optimal performer. That said, Vanguard is not one of those classes now that the middle tree has been buffed. The two specs are rather close, although it does suffer from requiring melee range more than assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatticusFinch Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 In PvE? What other versatility or utility do we have there? Unless you are talking about spec'n Tank and tanking thing, but that doesn't mean anything when you have DPS Specs doing well, DPS. Predation/Transcendence and Bloodthirst/Inspiration are *AMAZING* group abilities Sents/Maras bring that far exceeds any Utility us as DPS Bring. While I love PT/VG Dps. Just trying to clarify on that comment I can definitely agree that a sentinel is great to have in a raid group for their raid buffs. However, when it comes down to pure amount of damage output, the vanguard triumphs. This is speaking from personal experience in my raid group: we've synced our combat logs to compare damage, all members are in full rakata with pieces of black hole. On a boss fight, my vanguard can typically pump out 50-100k more damage over the duration than the next best dps, which is quite significant I'd say. For trash mobs, we're all about equal. With reference to the original post: below is the build I use. The vast majority of damage (~33%) is coming from burns (incendiary round, plasma cell stacked). The next best abilities is high impact bolt (~20%), then ion pulse (~18%), then hammer shot (~14%), then stockstrike(~12%), and everything else constitutes the remaining ~3%. This is speaking as an assault specialist, so I cannot comment on tactics' utility, but from the sound of things here, it seems like it's viable, too. I'll have to try it and then I can be unbiased, but it's hard to change when you're doing so much damage! http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMhZMsZfhrbzGhMM.1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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