Revan Novel *spoilers*

[Rayla_Felana]

Revan is often referred to and considered to be the greatest force user of his time.

 

Referring=canon fact.

 

Revan is one of the wisest force users to ever live and has mastered both light and dark. There aren't many that can claim perfect understanding of both light and dark and use it in practical situations.

 

He never had such a thing, please source this claim.

 

Revan is one of the greatest military minds in star wars.

 

Do remember he was using Mandalorian tactics against them and using his heavy numbers advantage to score his victories.

 

Revan went toe to toe with someone that absorbed the power of an entire planet, every single bit of it.

 

And barely did a thing to him but blast him back.

 

Revan fought through the star forge killing at least 40+ dark jedi as well as the star forges droids then without pause he proceeded to defeat bastilla followed by malak the dark lord of the sith.

 

With two companions till he got to Bastila oh and the droids were after he redeemed her, Exar Kun took down Ossus practically single-handedly.

 

Revan very easily bested a powerful member of the dark council.

 

That is debatable, he caught her off guard and then used Tutaminis to blast her own power back at her.

 

Revan delayed the emperors attack by 300 years by forcing his will upon the emperor while he was imprisoned.

 

Because Surik gave him the life energy to do so.

 

Kreia oftens speaks of his tremendous power and even refers to him as the heart of the force.

 

That's because he was her star pupil till Surik came along.

 

Revan beat mandalore the ultimate in single combat.

 

Ulic did the same thing and he was Kun's apprentice.

 

I think you need to realise how scared the Jedi were of Exar Kun, they wouldn't even attempt to fight him in singles combat because he had wrecked the Jedi Masters he faced and and shortly afterwards took down the Great Library of Ossus.

 

This is the same Exar Kun that Marka Ragnos himself crowned Dark Lord and true successor to the Golden Age of the Sith, not Vitiate, but Exar Kun.

[Rayla_Felana]

I'm seeing a lot of "in their time" comments, they have "accomplished this in their time". That doesn't help unless they were in the same time. You cannot judge people on their accomplishments, because not everything was the same for everyone "in their time". So some could of been just as powerful or more, but not of been able to prove it because there was not as such of a great threat or something like it.

 

The Exar Kun War happened only forty years before Knights of the Old republic IIRC.

[Lewisgil]

Revan is often referred to and considered to be the greatest force user of his time.

 

Opinions of people who were either influenced by his charisma or had no other source with which to compare him.

 

Revan is one of the wisest force users to ever live and has mastered both light and dark. There aren't many that can claim perfect understanding of both light and dark and use it in practical situations.

 

Where is this stated? Bastila says that he is wiser than the Jedi Council because she agrees with Revan's philosophies. It's easy to think one wise if you hold the same beliefs.

 

Also, where is it stated that he had mastered both the Light and the Dark? He merely walked the path of both and learned that using both afforded more flexibility and the ability to use more of your own potential.

 

Revan is one of the greatest military minds in star wars.

 

Who would easily be outshined by Grand Admiral Thrawn.

 

Revan went toe to toe with someone that absorbed the power of an entire planet, every single bit of it.

 

Going toe to toe only proves that he was brave enough to do so. Once he got there, he was outmatched. Not necessarily outclassed, but definitely outmatched.

 

Revan fought through the star forge killing at least 40+ dark jedi as well as the star forges droids then without pause he proceeded to defeat bastilla followed by malak the dark lord of the sith.

 

My Sith Sorcerer accomplished similar feats on almost every planet in the game.

 

Revan very easily bested a powerful member of the dark council.

 

Again, my Sith Sorcerer did exactly the same thing.

 

Revan delayed the emperors attack by 300 years by forcing his will upon the emperor while he was imprisoned.

 

Hyperbole. He didn't force anything upon the Emperor. He only used the Emperor's own fears against him by planting suggestions.

 

Kreia oftens speaks of his tremendous power and even refers to him as the heart of the force.

 

Indigo Montoya voice: That quote. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

Revan beat mandalore the ultimate in single combat.

 

Are we supposed to be that impressed that he was able to beat a single man one on one?

 

Uh I'm sure there is more but these are what first come to mind.

 

Revan's feats are no more impressive than any other main character in Star Wars

Edited May 9, 2012 by Lewisgil

[Sporadicus]

Revan was the greatest of his time.

Exar Kun was the greatest of his time.

Marka Ragnos was the greatest of his time.

Naga Sadow was the greatest of his time.

Tulak Hord was the greatest of his time.

And so on..

and I hate to say it... if not one of the most average characters in any series Luke was the best in his. (but I don't care about that era as they had to bend to the already set layouts of Lucas, also the whole anikin solo will forever make me cringe and the fact that in the film, one of the coolest characters ever.. Vader was ruined :<)

[Spartanik]

He was the prodigy of lightsaber combat for his time, he brought back the Saberstaff and perfected it completely, he was a Master of Niman and had almost mastered Jar'kai before he defeated his own master as a Padawan.

 

He was taught by Freedon Nadd and named the true successor of the Golden Age of the Sith Empire and was crowned Dark Lord of the Sith by Marka Ragnos himself.

 

He had force blasts that emitted from his hands that could kill on contact and destroy entire walls.

 

He had Force Flight and immensely powerful force senses.

 

He wiped out Ossus of all places.

 

He had a working mastery of many Dark Side techniques especially those concerned with Sith Alchemy and by the time Ulic betrayed him his Command over the Dark Side had reached esoteric levels, the Jedi Order wouldn't even fight him when he showed them his powers and all of this power was further enhanced by Freedon Nadd's amulet which amplified his power and strengthened his connection to the force.

 

Let's not forget when he walked straight into the Senate and killed the Supreme Chancellor whilst simultaneously saving Ulic from his failed attack on Coruscant.

 

On Yavin IV he devoured the entire Massassi race and ascended into a Sith Spirit, outsmarting everybody.

 

And he was only contained by the Jedi Order, they couldn't stop him, their combined power could only stop him from leaving Yavin IV.

 

And four millennia later he put Luke Skywalker into a coma, practically dismantled the New Jedi Order, and made the claim that if he could centre enough Dark Side energy he could rebuild his own body again, he was only defeated when the spirits of Luke, his old master and all the students forced his spirit into the Void of the Dark Side.

 

He clearly matches Vitiate himself, who is noted as being a Scholar not a combatant, never mind Revan or Surik.

Exar kun was no doubt a prodigy, and if i recall correctly he and ulic quel droma were pretty much even, ulic wich was another prodigy. Revan was also a prodigy and on the same level for all intends and porpuses.

No matter the way you look at it.

Honestly i think is a bit rash and irrelevant trying to quantify these characters skils, power wisdom etc, since you realy never know until someone writes about it.

Main example ulic quel droma and exar kun they were pretty much even, exar couldnt beat ulic, and ulic couldnt beat exar, thats the way was writen to say that Exar was better or more powerfull then ulic is a falacy, from my experience by reading these books it depens alot of the plot and story, the character skills dont count as much as people think. For instance Ulic at the end became one with the force, so in theory it surprass exar kun.

Just an example

Vitiate noted for being scholar? i dont know about that, a scholar defeating a sith lord at the age of 7... he cleary has the role of schemer, working behind the scenes, with mysterious motives, yet its his role given by the writers, even if true knowledge is power, being a scholar dont make him weak or less capable in fight, probably on the contrary, i think thats the intend of the creators, he being a scholar given him credit, and making hime more powerfull then the other sith lords etc, not to make him look like a librarian. imo.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Spartanik

[Lewisgil]

Exar kun was no doubt a prodigy, and if i recall correctly he and ulic quel droma were pretty much even, ulic wich was another prodigy. Revan was also a prodigy and on the same level for all intends and porpuses.

No matter the way you look at it.

Honestly i think is a bit rash and irrelevant trying to quantify these characters skils, power wisdom etc, since you realy never know until someone writes about it.

Main example ulic quel droma and exar kun they were pretty much even, exar couldnt beat ulic, and ulic couldnt beat exar, thats the way was writen to say that Exar was better or more powerfull then ulic is a falacy, from my experience by reading these books it depens alot of the plot and story, the character skills dont count as much as people think. For instance Ulic at the end became one with the force, so in theory it surprass exar kun.

Just an example

Vitiate noted for being scholar? i dont know about that, a scholar defeating a sith lord at the age of 7... he cleary has the role of schemer, working behind the scenes, with mysterious motives, yet its his role given by the writers, even if true knowledge is power, being a scholar dont make him weak or less capable in fight, probably on the contrary, i think thats the intend of the creators, he being a scholar given him credit, and making hime more powerfull then the other sith lords etc, not to make him look like a librarian. imo.

 

For all INTENTS and purposes, Revan was NOT a prodigy. He had no unusual or marvellous skills. Everything he was able to do was through training and some natural talent. He was an exceptional tactician and strategist. He was an exceptional swordsman. He was exceptionally powerful. He was nothing out of the ordinary though. He had no skills that given the same level of training and dedication any other Jedi couldn't achieve.

 

Exar Kun was able to master a style of lightsaber combat that was virtually unknown to the Jedi. He was able to master the use of the saberstaff. Before him, there were no other Jedi who even knew how to use one. You say Ulic ended up surpassing Exar by becoming one with the Force? Exar Kun's spirit haunted Yavin 4 for four millennia. He was still powerful enough toward the end of that time period to place Luke Skywalker in a coma. Being that powerful as a Force Ghost was a feat only accomplished by one other being, Marka Ragnos who was able to exercise his authority over the Sith even after death.

 

Bastila can be considered a Prodigy having mastered the Battle Meditation as only a Padawan. Previously, this had been an ability that even Masters could not always master.

 

Jaesa Wilsam was a Prodigy for having the ability to see one's true intentions. Previously an ability without precedent.

 

I fail to see how Revan qualifies as a prodigy.

[OldVengeance]

I never ever got the impression that Revan was supposed to be more powerful than Exar Kun. If anything, to veterans of the Great Sith War still around in Kotor, Reven and Malak were still in Exar Kun's shadow. The rodian on the Yavin IV station actually witnessed Exar Kun personally and, as Dark Lords go, he doesn't compare you favorably to him. Edited May 10, 2012 by OldVengeance

[Lewisgil]

I never ever got the impression that Revan was supposed to be more powerful than Exar Kun. If anything, to veterans of the Great Sith War still around in Kotor, Reven and Malak were still in Exar Kun's shadow. The rodian on the Yavin IV station actually witnessed Exar Kun personally and, as Dark Lords go, he doesn't compare you favorably to him.

 

Didn't one of Jolee's stories talk about the awesome power that Exar Kun displayed?

 

I know that Jolee told a Story about Nomi Sunrider in which he gives the impression that she was more powerful than Revan.

[OldVengeance]

Didn't one of Jolee's stories talk about the awesome power that Exar Kun displayed?

 

I know that Jolee told a Story about Nomi Sunrider in which he gives the impression that she was more powerful than Revan.

 

I do remember he talked about both Exar Kun and Nomi Sunrider, but I don't recall his exact dialogue. I might be wrong, especially with Kun, but I don't think he compares either's strength directly to Revan's, but I think the gist of much of his dialogues is to give the Revan PC some perspective. Kind of essentially to get over themselves, in some ways. Because he knew Revan was neither the first nor the last person to be kind of a big deal for a while, so he was basically telling him that Revan that he wasn't as unique as he might have thought.

 

In fact in both Kotor games, many characters treat the legends of the past with more reverence than the heroes of the present.

 

In the second game Kreia tells the Exile that if they were to face one of the ancient Sith Lords in combat they would be no match for them.

 

One of the mandalorians on the mission to Dxun describe Freedon Nadd as being "worse than Revan and Malak ever were" according to the stories about him.

 

In Nomi's case, I seem to remember Jolee saying Revan reminded him of her somewhat. And I think he talked about how Exar Kun shocked the Jedi by being as successful as he was turning their own against them.

Edited May 10, 2012 by OldVengeance

[Rayla_Felana]

Exar kun was no doubt a prodigy, and if i recall correctly he and ulic quel droma were pretty much even, ulic wich was another prodigy.

Ulic defeated an exar Kun barely starting his reign as a Sith Lord, later on Kun far surpassed Ulic in power, when his real command of the Dark Side had begun.

Revan was also a prodigy and on the same level for all intends and porpuses.

No he wasn't and no he wasn't, the Sith Warrior is named the next coming of Exar Kun, the Sith Warrior.

Exar Kun had a far far greater command of the force and the Dark Side than Revan ever did.

 

Main example ulic quel droma and exar kun they were pretty much even, exar couldnt beat ulic, and ulic couldnt beat exar, thats the way was writen to say that Exar was better or more powerfull then ulic is a falacy, from my experience by reading these books it depens alot of the plot and story, the character skills dont count as much as people think. For instance Ulic at the end became one with the force, so in theory it surprass exar kun.

 

Again he beat an Exar Kun that had only just started using the Dark Side, later on Ulic outright states that his Master had far surpassed him.

 

Vitiate noted for being scholar? i dont know about that, a scholar defeating a sith lord at the age of 7... he cleary has the role of schemer, working behind the scenes, with mysterious motives, yet its his role given by the writers, even if true knowledge is power, being a scholar dont make him weak or less capable in fight, probably on the contrary, i think thats the intend of the creators, he being a scholar given him credit, and making hime more powerfull then the other sith lords etc, not to make him look like a librarian. imo.

 

In the Revan novel it is stated outright that Vitiate was no combatant, he was a scholar of the Sith, through and through.

[Lewisgil]

I do remember he talked about both Exar Kun and Nomi Sunrider, but I don't recall his exact dialogue. I might be wrong, especially with Kun, but I don't think he compares either's strength directly to Revan's, but I think the gist of much of his dialogues is to give the Revan PC some perspective. Kind of essentially to get over themselves, in some ways. Because he knew Revan was neither the first nor the last person to be kind of a big deal for a while, so he was basically telling him that Revan that he wasn't as unique as he might have thought.

 

In fact in both Kotor games, many characters treat the legends of the past with more reverence than the heroes of the present.

 

In the second game Kreia tells the Exile that if they were to face one of the ancient Sith Lords in combat they would be no match for them.

 

One of the mandalorians on the mission to Dxun describe Freedon Nadd as being "worse than Revan and Malak ever were" according to the stories about him.

 

In Nomi's case, I seem to remember Jolee saying Revan reminded him of her somewhat. And I think he talked about how Exar Kun shocked the Jedi by being as successful as he was turning their own against them.

 

I don't remember the exact dialog regarding Exar Kun, nor Nomi Sunrider. I do recall Jolee saying that he saw Revan had a great destiny like Nomi Sunrider, that the Force swirled about both of them. It was more akin to a strong breeze with Revan but it was like a Hurricane with Nomi. If I am remembering correctly.

[Spartanik]

Didn't one of Jolee's stories talk about the awesome power that Exar Kun displayed?

 

I know that Jolee told a Story about Nomi Sunrider in which he gives the impression that she was more powerful than Revan.

 

He didnt compared powers at all.

Quote: Originally Posted by Spartanik View Post

Exar kun was no doubt a prodigy, and if i recall correctly he and ulic quel droma were pretty much even, ulic wich was another prodigy.

Ulic defeated an exar Kun barely starting his reign as a Sith Lord, later on Kun far surpassed Ulic in power, when his real command of the Dark Side had begun.

Revan was also a prodigy and on the same level for all intends and porpuses.

No he wasn't and no he wasn't, the Sith Warrior is named the next coming of Exar Kun, the Sith Warrior.

Exar Kun had a far far greater command of the force and the Dark Side than Revan ever did.

 

Main example ulic quel droma and exar kun they were pretty much even, exar couldnt beat ulic, and ulic couldnt beat exar, thats the way was writen to say that Exar was better or more powerfull then ulic is a falacy, from my experience by reading these books it depens alot of the plot and story, the character skills dont count as much as people think. For instance Ulic at the end became one with the force, so in theory it surprass exar kun.

 

Again he beat an Exar Kun that had only just started using the Dark Side, later on Ulic outright states that his Master had far surpassed him.

 

 

Vitiate noted for being scholar? i dont know about that, a scholar defeating a sith lord at the age of 7... he cleary has the role of schemer, working behind the scenes, with mysterious motives, yet its his role given by the writers, even if true knowledge is power, being a scholar dont make him weak or less capable in fight, probably on the contrary, i think thats the intend of the creators, he being a scholar given him credit, and making hime more powerfull then the other sith lords etc, not to make him look like a librarian. imo.

In the Revan novel it is stated outright that Vitiate was no combatant, he was a scholar of the Sith, through and through.

yes but has i stated he became one with the force exar kun never did that, there is a diference between dark side spirits i think its called i dont recall. And becoming one with the force as obi wan or yoda did in theory they became very powerfull, true strengh in the force i guess, has they became part of it, dark side users arent capable of that. In anycase im not saying revan was more powerfull then exar kun or ulic was for that matter, ulic was like Revan if you can compare it was a conflicted character, not like exar kun mind you naturaly Exar kun was meant to have a greater mastery of the dark side, and one of the reasons Marka ragnos chose him, ulic wasnt completely fallen to the dark side.

For all INTENTS and purposes, Revan was NOT a prodigy. He had no unusual or marvellous skills. Everything he was able to do was through training and some natural talent. He was an exceptional tactician and strategist. He was an exceptional swordsman. He was exceptionally powerful. He was nothing out of the ordinary though. He had no skills that given the same level of training and dedication any other Jedi couldn't achieve.

Regardless being a prodigy doesnt mean necessarly more skifull, what i meant is revan was a very talented force user of his time, bastlia well was a prodigy in the sense that had a natural ability of battle meditation but was not stronger then revan or more particular more skillfull, Having a natural talent in the force does not make one necessarly more skilfull, just saying. Its just a perk that can be or not an advantage depending on the situation, and off course the script

I never said revan was more powerfull then exar kun i said it doesnt matter, and its subjective, but to deny that revan was important character and a important and talented force user of his time is deny the truth.

 

Rayla About vitiate being a scholar, that was how the other sith lords saw vitiate, he didnt had any conquests or military campaings of note, so they didnt fear him it was his reputation. to think that The Vitiate couldnt handle himself in a fight is just ridiculous.

He not being taken as a combatant doesnt speak to his power or his skills in combat. he became ruler of nathema at age of 13 for god sake he killed and defeated a sith lord in a duel at age of 9. he was the emperor who ruled the sith empire the longest in the history of the Star wars universe.

He was modeled after palpatine after, all, he is a character that likes the backgroud schemes, and plays smart and avoids direct confrontations, and again like sidious all that doesnt speak against his skills in combat, that is my opinion.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Spartanik

[Lewisgil]

He didnt compared powers at all.

 

I never said he compared their powers. I just said that what he said leads you to believe that Nomi was more powerful. He also says something similar when speaking about Exar Kun.

 

yes but has i stated he became one with the force exar kun never did that, there is a diference between dark side spirits i think its called i dont recall. And becoming one with the force as obi wan or yoda did in theory they became very powerfull, true strengh in the force i guess, has they became part of it, dark side users arent capable of that. In anycase im not saying revan was more powerfull then exar kun or ulic was for that matter, ulic was like Revan if you can compare it was a conflicted character, not like exar kun mind you naturaly Exar kun was meant to have a greater mastery of the dark side, and one of the reasons Marka ragnos chose him, ulic wasnt completely fallen to the dark side.

 

There are Force Ghosts, there are no differences stated between a Dark Side Force User's Force Ghost and a Light Side Force User's Force Ghost other than which side of the Force you feel from them.

 

Regardless being a prodigy doesnt mean necessarly more skifull, what i meant is revan was a very talented force user of his time, bastlia well was a prodigy in the sense that had a natural ability of battle meditation but was not stronger then revan or more particular more skillfull, Having a natural talent in the force does not make one necessarly more skilfull, just saying. Its just a perk that can be or not an advantage depending on the situation, and off course the script

I never said revan was more powerfull then exar kun i said it doesnt matter, and its subjective, but to deny that revan was important character and a important and talented force user of his time is deny the truth.

 

Nobody is denying Revan is an important character. What is in debate is how powerful he is. The common belief is that he is far more powerful than what the evidence points to.

 

Rayla About vitiate being a scholar, that was how the other sith lords saw vitiate, he didnt had any conquests or military campaings of note, so they didnt fear him it was his reputation. to think that The Vitiate couldnt handle himself in a fight is just ridiculous.

 

She never denied his capability of defending himself. All she stated was that he spent his time studying rather than training his body. The biggest advantage he had in his fights against any opponent was his immense power. Allowing the Force to flow through you has been proven time and time again to equate to extensive training.

 

He not being taken as a combatant doesnt speak to his power or his skills in combat. he became ruler of nathema at age of 13 for god sake he killed and defeated a sith lord in a duel at age of 9. he was the emperor who ruled the sith empire the longest in the history of the Star wars universe.

 

It wasn't a duel, he used the Force to kill him. He isn't once described using a lightsaber until he fights Revan. Even then it is only to deliver a failed death blow.

 

He was modeled after palpatine after, all, he is a character that likes the backgroud schemes, and plays smart and avoids direct confrontations, and again like sidious all that doesnt speak against his skills in combat, that is my opinion.

 

The points in blue are what you seem to be missing.

[TJBartlemus]

Not hating on what you guys have said, but how did we get to a Revan vs. topic? Just a little bit of a redirect back to main topic. We could argue all day about how good Revan is and there is no winning on any side of the argument.

[Lewisgil]

Not hating on what you guys have said, but how did we get to a Revan vs. topic? Just a little bit of a redirect back to main topic. We could argue all day about how good Revan is and there is no winning on any side of the argument.

 

The entire thread is a discussion on whether Revan, Meetra, and Scourge would have been sufficient to defeat the Emperor or not. It has devolved into a debate as to how powerful Revan is. Which, should have been established in the beginning if we are to have any kind of resolution as to whether the three of them could defeat the Emperor or not.

 

In the course of the last nine or so chapters of the novel, it was firmly established that Revan was more powerful than both Meetra and Scourge, as some would debate should not be the case. During the course of the fight scene with the Emperor, it was firmly established that the Emperor was more powerful than Revan. This leaves us with the quandary; would Revan, Meetra, and Scourge be able to defeat the Emperor had Scourge chosen to fight instead of betray Revan and kill Meetra?

 

I would say probably not. If the circumstances surrounding the beginning of the fight had been different, maybe. If the three of them had attacked as one from the beginning, they may have been able to overpower the Emperor through teamwork. If the only difference had been Scourge choosing to fight instead of stab Meetra in the back, I think Revan was far too spent at that point for them to mount an effective attack.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Lewisgil

[Spartanik]

The points in blue are what you seem to be missing.

 

I never said he compared their powers. I just said that what he said leads you to believe that Nomi was more powerful. He also says something similar when speaking about Exar Kun.

you are comparing... he speaks of Nomi quite fondly that i recall, and exar kun being the worst, of that time, an naturaly being powerfull it doesnt say how much they were.

There are Force Ghosts, there are no differences stated between a Dark Side Force User's Force Ghost and a Light Side Force User's Force Ghost other than which side of the Force you feel from them.

Nope im pretty sure you are wrong. Dark side ghosts usualy are bound to a place, and restless, they dont find piece in that form, in other words they dont become one with the force.

... Unlike the Jedi, however, the Sith found little peace in this form, instead existing for restless centuries, eventually driven insane by solitude, memories, or dark side inflicted madness. In many ways, these techniques differed from those taught by the Jedi; the most distinct difference being the user's limited ability to interact with his surroundings. Arguably, the most proficient user of such a technique was Exar Kun.

from wookie.

It is similar but its not the same, and its quite a diference if you ask me.

Nobody is denying Revan is an important character. What is in debate is how powerful he is. The common belief is that he is far more powerful than what the evidence points to.

I recon he was powerfull enough to be amongst the most powerfull and skilfull, force users of his time. was it the best? evidence dont suports that ideia off course.

Does it matter how powerfull he is? who cares. Besides you cant blame people whos avatar was

revan in a RPG to grow fond of the character and make it a bit more then it is , not every people reads all the books or cares about the canon as some people do or the same way. I just dont understand why it matters so much for some people.

The same goes for the exile for that matters.

She never denied his capability of defending himself. All she stated was that he spent his time studying rather than training his body. The biggest advantage he had in his fights against any opponent was his immense power. Allowing the Force to flow through you has been proven time and time again to equate to extensive training.

She said that exar kun power macthes vitiate, and implying that vitiate being a scholar not combatant, that Exar kun would have an advantage. well that is cleary an assumption.

It wasn't a duel, he used the Force to kill him. He isn't once described using a lightsaber until he fights Revan. Even then it is only to deliver a failed death blow.

A duel is a duel, a fight is a fight with or without a lightsaber... i dont see how hard its to understand what i meant. He killed him with the force a full sith lord at age of 10 and others that came after in the folowing years.

The entire thread is a discussion on whether Revan, Meetra, and Scourge would have been sufficient to defeat the Emperor or not. It has devolved into a debate as to how powerful Revan is. Which, should have been established in the beginning if we are to have any kind of resolution as to whether the three of them could defeat the Emperor or not.

To be on tópic, I think is hard to say, if the visions of scourge were relevant or not, but given its significance to the plot and the way it was writen, its a pretty safe bet that the 3 of then couldnt beat Vitiate, at least in that specific setting and on those circunstances. So i recon the vision Scourge had were genuine, it would end up revan scourge and metraa being defeated, had not Scourge folowed revans advice, and used his visions to guide his path.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Spartanik

[Lewisgil]

you are comparing... he speaks of Nomi quite fondly that i recall, and exar kun being the worst, of that time, an naturaly being powerfull it doesnt say how much they were.

 

Again, I never said he did say such a thing. It's just the words he used conveyed the message that Revan wasn't to her level as far as power. I'm not trying to insult you in any way however, I'm going to guess that English is not your first language and as such subtle nuances can be lost in translation. Just like I am a fan of Anime, I often times find myself wondering what is so funny about some of the things said even when watching the dubbed version.

 

Nope im pretty sure you are wrong. Dark side ghosts usualy are bound to a place, and restless, they dont find piece in that form, in other words they dont become one with the force.

from wookie.

It is similar but its not the same, and its quite a diference if you ask me.

 

Then please explain how people such as Marka Ragnos and Freedon Nadd were able to do the exact opposite of what you are claiming. Exar Kun was bound to that temple because Jedi actually bound his spirit there.

 

I recon he was powerfull enough to be amongst the most powerfull and skilfull, force users of his time. was it the best? evidence dont suports that ideia off course.

 

That is my point in its entirety. Revan is considered by his loyal fans to be one of if not the most powerful Force Users in all of the Star Wars Universe. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary. People base their opinion of his power on how easy it is to overpower nearly any opponent in KotOR if you know how to level your character correctly.

 

Does it matter how powerfull he is? who cares. Besides you cant blame people whos avatar was

revan in a RPG to grow fond of the character and make it a bit more then it is , not every people reads all the books or cares about the canon as some people do or the same way. I just dont understand why it matters so much for some people.

 

The entire point of the thread is directly linked to how powerful Revan is supposed to be. Given some people's opinion of him, he should have been able to kill Vitiate with his first attack. Given that did not happen, they are raging against the dying of the light to prove why the outcome is false. Myself, I am arguing on the side of logic and presented facts.

 

The same goes for the exile for that matters.

 

She said that exar kun power macthes vitiate, and implying that vitiate being a scholar not combatant, that Exar kun would have an advantage. well that is cleary an assumption.

 

Let me paint the picture for you this way. If the two are equally matched when it comes to how much power they possess the fight between the two can only be decided by which one has better training. Seeing as how Exar Kun was possibly the best lightsaber duelist of his time, I would say that he would have a definite advantage over Vitiate who had minimal to no lightsaber training.

 

A duel is a duel, a fight is a fight with or without a lightsaber... i dont see how hard its to understand what i meant. He killed him with the force a full sith lord at age of 10 and others that came after in the folowing years.

 

The way you worded it, it was a contest of lightsaber skills, it was not. Vitiate overpowered his opponents with the Force, he was able to do such things at the age of six. He is not a combatant, he is an extremely powerful Force User. There was no combat, there was a challenge answered by the loss of sanity and death.

 

To be on tópic, I think is hard to say, if the visions of scourge were relevant or not, but given its significance to the plot and the way it was writen, its a pretty safe bet that the 3 of then couldnt beat Vitiate, at least in that specific setting and on those circunstances. So i recon the vision Scourge had were genuine, it would end up revan scourge and metraa being defeated, had not Scourge folowed revans advice, and used his visions to guide his path.

 

My answers are again in blue.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Lewisgil

[Spartanik]

Then please explain how people such as Marka Ragnos and Freedon Nadd were able to do the exact opposite of what you are claiming. Exar Kun was bound to that temple because Jedi actually bound his spirit there.

Has i said its similar but not exactly the same thing read the text... They had a much more limitations, and if not redeemed to the light they would never become one with the force and go the the netherworld of the force for instance. In resume the theory that the force shall free then, is a big fat lie obviously, their "imortality has a ghost is more like a prison, restless spirits, going made and losing memory etc.

 

The way you worded it, it was a contest of lightsaber skills, it was not. Vitiate overpowered his opponents with the Force, he was able to do such things at the age of six. He is not a combatant, he is an extremely powerful Force User. There was no combat, there was a challenge answered by the loss of sanity and death.

It was a combat trough the force, just because his oponents didnt had a chance doesnt mean it wasnt a combat. Yoda and Sidious fighting with force powers for instance, or force users using mental barriers, or guarding then selfs with the force, or Revan using his power to beat vitiate influence and send him flying etc its all combat just because it isnt with laser swords doesnt mean it isnt a battle. Again it is an assumption that exar kun has an advantage just because he knows how to wield a lightsaber. It can be or it can not, im pretty sure the other sith lords, and emperor enemies had lightsabers too. Just saying.

Let me paint the picture for you this way. If the two are equally matched when it comes to how much power they possess the fight between the two can only be decided by which one has better training. Seeing as how Exar Kun was possibly the best lightsaber duelist of his time, I would say that he would have a definite advantage over Vitiate who had minimal to no lightsaber training.

To be honest we dont know that, as he was a scholar he could well trained himself on that, but never had to realy use it since his power alone were enough for the most part, but if you play the jedi knight story line, The emperor wields a lightsaber as well.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Spartanik

[Lewisgil]

Marka Ragnos was a Force Ghost that was able to wield as much power after his death as he wielded during his life. He was able to assert his authority over the Sith Empire after his death. He was neither restless nor bound to any one place. Freedon Nadd was powerful enough in death to stop a huge boulder from crushing Exar Kun. He was also powerful enough to declare Exar Kun the Dark Lord of the Sith without Ulic Qel Droma objecting even though his duel with Kun ended in a draw. The point is, Sith Force Ghosts were only bound to their tomb if they wanted to be or were actually bound by the power of another.

 

The point you are missing about Vitiate not being a combatant is that he did not have any formal training with a lightsaber. He is never actually shown wielding one except when he picks up Revan's when he goes in to kill him. The person wielding the lightsaber in the Jedi Knight Class Story is the Emperor's Voice, a host body for the spirit of the Emperor. So again, if someone is equal in power to him but has greater lightsaber skill, the advantage goes to the one with the lightsaber skill.

 

Your example of Yoda and Palpatine falls on its face due to the fact both were extremely well trained lightsaber duelists as well as being extremely powerful Force Users. The point I am making is that the Emperor never needed to use a lightsaber, he was always able to overpower his enemies with the Force. If he were to fight someone that he was not able to overpower with the Force, it would come down to who was more skilled with the lightsaber. He defeated Revan without a lightsaber, he only picked it up to finish the job.