Suggestions and complaints about the warzone system

[itschowda]

First off, I liked the changes made to the warzone medal system in 1.2 that promotes better team play (faster wins, doing objectives more, etc.). So don't get me wrong thinking I'm hating everything there is to hate about pvp queuing. This is mainly complaining about free gear for players that don't deserve it.

 

I'd like to start with warzone commendations and gear. Back when we had the armaments quest, warzones used to be fine but the daily for the armaments was a hassle. Then the devs gave us the option to get armament credit by completing war zones, great for those of us who were trying to get better pvp gear, but created an increase in the number of people looking to get "carried" or trying to get handouts because all they had to do was play 10 warzones and get commendations, if they happened to be on a winning team then it was a bonus for them. The 1.2 patch "accidentally" fixed this by removing the play warzones daily/weekly AND making base warzone commendations for losing 0. Warzones became fun again because it was mostly people that were trying to win and less "carry me plz" players. Then too many people complained about not getting squat when their team tried but lost to a better team and only got rewarded for their medals. So now we have base warzone commendation earnings again. Guess what? People looking to get carried have resurfaced. Too often in warzones I see 1-2 sometimes even 3 of my teammates having a max hp (with bh/trooper buff) of less than 12k. Mainly because they're wearing greens and blues that aren't even level 49-50 but rather level 35-41. When I try telling them "Please buy the recruit gear, it's good and even cheaper than when it came out." they usually respond with something along the lines of: "Why? I can just grind warzones and get the battlemaster gear for free." This sort of player has existed for too long and having a high base warzone commendation earning just promotes them to keep dragging down teams. They can even abuse the new system by going afk on a defensive point and hiding or going stealth. Just one of these players can assist losing even when they're teamed up with a good premade of 4 players.

 

So now that the rant is over, here's my suggestions:

1) Remove or significantly lower the base warzone commendation earnings for taking a loss. Ideally, adjust the base earnings based on how well the losing team did against the winning team. Example: Base earnings is 20 wz comms. The losing team lost 5-1 in a Huttball game. The losing team's base wz comms are now reduced to 20% i.e. 4 comms. Now if the losing team lost 5-4 lets say, they now get 80% of the base i.e. 16 comms.

 

2) Increase the time needed to earn defender points just by sitting around on let’s say a Civil War turret based on how many other defenders are there. Example: Defending a Civil War turret with no offense grants 500 defender points every 30 seconds. A single defender will earn that at a rate of 100%. Now if there are 2 defenders, increase the time by some percentage. Maybe 10% for every defender there, making it so that if there are 2 defenders, it now takes 33 seconds to earn 500 defender points. 3 defenders making it take 36 seconds and so on. Hopefully this could fix the afk problem deter the people that “concede” too quickly and just sit on one turret trying to get defender medals.

 

3) Bring back the centurion gear as a reward for playing a warzone when a player reaches level 50. To my

understanding, recruit gear’s total stats are actually better than champion (old tier 2 pvp) are/was. Essentially what I’m saying is “Ok, you hit level 50 and you want to pvp. Start off by playing a warzone. Ok, you finished that mission? Here’s a full 5 piece set of ‘old tier 1’ pvp armor. Now it won’t make you amazing in warzones, but it will stop you from getting ‘2 shotted’ by any damage dealer out there.”

 

4) Possibly come out with a gear score system, even if it’s based on one stat i.e. Expertise. During the point in which the game randoms out the teams, shuffle the players so that the entire team’s total expertise value is roughly the same with a multiplier for players going in as a group. Example: 4 players group up and their total expertise value is 1000, for the purpose of making teams, their total is increased by 10% per player making the party’s expertise 1300. Now 12 other players are queuing solo, to play around with more numbers, let’s say 4 of the players have individual expertise values 175 each and 8 of them have 250 each. The premade has a value of 1300, the 4 players with 175 each total 700 making 2000 so they’ll be on the same team and the 8 players with 250 each are now on the opposing team. Something like this could attempt to balance out the fact that many times I see a premade (sometimes I’m in the premade) and a bunch of solo queued, decently geared people going against a bunch of under-geared people and just “steam rolling” them. While easily “steam rolling” people may be fun for some, but for me I believe in a sense of fair play. When I’m in the premade, I can’t help but feel bad for the other team because just getting stomped on is never fun and when I’m on the receiving end queuing solo, it’s insanely less fun. The goal of every game is for everyone to have fun and play fair, right?

 

5) Discard everything I’ve just ranted about or suggested and bring out the 8-man wz queuing because honestly, the lack of drive to get better, skill-wise and/or equipment-wise, by a vast majority of players is getting to be mentally taxing and making me want to quit pvp all together which is the main reason why I play this game.

 

6) This one is wildly out there: Give ME a buff when these donkeys are on my team similar to that of the level 10-49 warzone buff so it IS possible for me to give them what they want and carry them to free gear. It’ll be like I’m a customer service droid and our little secret.

[DNGDangerous]

1) Remove or significantly lower the base warzone commendation earnings for taking a loss. Ideally, adjust the base earnings based on how well the losing team did against the winning team. Example: Base earnings is 20 wz comms. The losing team lost 5-1 in a Huttball game. The losing team's base wz comms are now reduced to 20% i.e. 4 comms. Now if the losing team lost 5-4 lets say, they now get 80% of the base i.e. 16 comms.

 

2) Increase the time needed to earn defender points just by sitting around on let’s say a Civil War turret based on how many other defenders are there. Example: Defending a Civil War turret with no offense grants 500 defender points every 30 seconds. A single defender will earn that at a rate of 100%. Now if there are 2 defenders, increase the time by some percentage. Maybe 10% for every defender there, making it so that if there are 2 defenders, it now takes 33 seconds to earn 500 defender points. 3 defenders making it take 36 seconds and so on. Hopefully this could fix the afk problem deter the people that “concede” too quickly and just sit on one turret trying to get defender medals.

 

3) Bring back the centurion gear as a reward for playing a warzone when a player reaches level 50. To my

understanding, recruit gear’s total stats are actually better than champion (old tier 2 pvp) are/was. Essentially what I’m saying is “Ok, you hit level 50 and you want to pvp. Start off by playing a warzone. Ok, you finished that mission? Here’s a full 5 piece set of ‘old tier 1’ pvp armor. Now it won’t make you amazing in warzones, but it will stop you from getting ‘2 shotted’ by any damage dealer out there.”

 

4) Possibly come out with a gear score system, even if it’s based on one stat i.e. Expertise. During the point in which the game randoms out the teams, shuffle the players so that the entire team’s total expertise value is roughly the same with a multiplier for players going in as a group. Example: 4 players group up and their total expertise value is 1000, for the purpose of making teams, their total is increased by 10% per player making the party’s expertise 1300. Now 12 other players are queuing solo, to play around with more numbers, let’s say 4 of the players have individual expertise values 175 each and 8 of them have 250 each. The premade has a value of 1300, the 4 players with 175 each total 700 making 2000 so they’ll be on the same team and the 8 players with 250 each are now on the opposing team. Something like this could attempt to balance out the fact that many times I see a premade (sometimes I’m in the premade) and a bunch of solo queued, decently geared people going against a bunch of under-geared people and just “steam rolling” them. While easily “steam rolling” people may be fun for some, but for me I believe in a sense of fair play. When I’m in the premade, I can’t help but feel bad for the other team because just getting stomped on is never fun and when I’m on the receiving end queuing solo, it’s insanely less fun. The goal of every game is for everyone to have fun and play fair, right?

 

5) Discard everything I’ve just ranted about or suggested and bring out the 8-man wz queuing because honestly, the lack of drive to get better, skill-wise and/or equipment-wise, by a vast majority of players is getting to be mentally taxing and making me want to quit pvp all together which is the main reason why I play this game.

 

6) This one is wildly out there: Give ME a buff when these donkeys are on my team similar to that of the level 10-49 warzone buff so it IS possible for me to give them what they want and carry them to free gear. It’ll be like I’m a customer service droid and our little secret.

 

1) I think the loosing teams rewards should be based on how many medals they get.

 

1 medal: terrible rewards (the same amount as it was at 1.2 launch)

2 medals: a little more then 1 medal

3 medals:a little more then 2 medals

4 medals: significantly more then 3 medals

5 medals: significantly more then 4 medals

6+ medals: same as it currently is now in our current patch

 

2) agree with op

 

3) agree with op

 

4) I think level 50 WZ should have a expertise requirement of at least 400 expertise (which is easy to obtain with recruit gear being in the game currently)

 

5) This is the most important thing BW needs to implement asap. (even if its non-ranked in the beginning)

 

6) I think the vote option needs to be expanded.

A) 4 players can vote kick someone. the person in question gets a responce button they can press to cancel this vote (to prove hes not actually afk)

b) 4 players can vote kick someone with expertise under 600 or under 13,000 hp. (if either of these 2 statistics are reached, then the vote kick greys out and is not an option)

[itschowda]

6) I think the vote option needs to be expanded.

A) 4 players can vote kick someone. the person in question gets a responce button they can press to cancel this vote (to prove hes not actually afk)

b) 4 players can vote kick someone with expertise under 600 or under 13,000 hp. (if either of these 2 statistics are reached, then the vote kick greys out and is not an option)

 

The numbers of course would need some kind of balance to be fair for people that actually are trying but failing to try hard enough to meet the high standards a lot of people might expect but it's on the right track. Haven't checked recruit gear stats for all classes so 13k hp might be a little high for a minimum (depending on full recruit gear stats) but 12k and under is a definite no go.

[itschowda]

I forgot one more thing I'd like to see for war zones. Bonuses for taking a leaver's spot in a war zone, bonuses for staying in the war zone which has a leaver(s), and penalties for leaving a war zone in progress.

[PaladinSoul]

First off, I liked the changes made to the warzone medal system in 1.2 that promotes better team play (faster wins, doing objectives more, etc.). So don't get me wrong thinking I'm hating everything there is to hate about pvp queuing. This is mainly complaining about free gear for players that don't deserve it.

 

I'd like to start with warzone commendations and gear. Back when we had the armaments quest, warzones used to be fine but the daily for the armaments was a hassle. Then the devs gave us the option to get armament credit by completing war zones, great for those of us who were trying to get better pvp gear, but created an increase in the number of people looking to get "carried" or trying to get handouts because all they had to do was play 10 warzones and get commendations, if they happened to be on a winning team then it was a bonus for them. The 1.2 patch "accidentally" fixed this by removing the play warzones daily/weekly AND making base warzone commendations for losing 0. Warzones became fun again because it was mostly people that were trying to win and less "carry me plz" players. Then too many people complained about not getting squat when their team tried but lost to a better team and only got rewarded for their medals. So now we have base warzone commendation earnings again. Guess what? People looking to get carried have resurfaced. Too often in warzones I see 1-2 sometimes even 3 of my teammates having a max hp (with bh/trooper buff) of less than 12k. Mainly because they're wearing greens and blues that aren't even level 49-50 but rather level 35-41. When I try telling them "Please buy the recruit gear, it's good and even cheaper than when it came out." they usually respond with something along the lines of: "Why? I can just grind warzones and get the battlemaster gear for free." This sort of player has existed for too long and having a high base warzone commendation earning just promotes them to keep dragging down teams. They can even abuse the new system by going afk on a defensive point and hiding or going stealth. Just one of these players can assist losing even when they're teamed up with a good premade of 4 players.

 

So now that the rant is over, here's my suggestions:

1) Remove or significantly lower the base warzone commendation earnings for taking a loss. Ideally, adjust the base earnings based on how well the losing team did against the winning team. Example: Base earnings is 20 wz comms. The losing team lost 5-1 in a Huttball game. The losing team's base wz comms are now reduced to 20% i.e. 4 comms. Now if the losing team lost 5-4 lets say, they now get 80% of the base i.e. 16 comms.

 

2) Increase the time needed to earn defender points just by sitting around on let’s say a Civil War turret based on how many other defenders are there. Example: Defending a Civil War turret with no offense grants 500 defender points every 30 seconds. A single defender will earn that at a rate of 100%. Now if there are 2 defenders, increase the time by some percentage. Maybe 10% for every defender there, making it so that if there are 2 defenders, it now takes 33 seconds to earn 500 defender points. 3 defenders making it take 36 seconds and so on. Hopefully this could fix the afk problem deter the people that “concede” too quickly and just sit on one turret trying to get defender medals.

 

3) Bring back the centurion gear as a reward for playing a warzone when a player reaches level 50. To my

understanding, recruit gear’s total stats are actually better than champion (old tier 2 pvp) are/was. Essentially what I’m saying is “Ok, you hit level 50 and you want to pvp. Start off by playing a warzone. Ok, you finished that mission? Here’s a full 5 piece set of ‘old tier 1’ pvp armor. Now it won’t make you amazing in warzones, but it will stop you from getting ‘2 shotted’ by any damage dealer out there.”

 

4) Possibly come out with a gear score system, even if it’s based on one stat i.e. Expertise. During the point in which the game randoms out the teams, shuffle the players so that the entire team’s total expertise value is roughly the same with a multiplier for players going in as a group. Example: 4 players group up and their total expertise value is 1000, for the purpose of making teams, their total is increased by 10% per player making the party’s expertise 1300. Now 12 other players are queuing solo, to play around with more numbers, let’s say 4 of the players have individual expertise values 175 each and 8 of them have 250 each. The premade has a value of 1300, the 4 players with 175 each total 700 making 2000 so they’ll be on the same team and the 8 players with 250 each are now on the opposing team. Something like this could attempt to balance out the fact that many times I see a premade (sometimes I’m in the premade) and a bunch of solo queued, decently geared people going against a bunch of under-geared people and just “steam rolling” them. While easily “steam rolling” people may be fun for some, but for me I believe in a sense of fair play. When I’m in the premade, I can’t help but feel bad for the other team because just getting stomped on is never fun and when I’m on the receiving end queuing solo, it’s insanely less fun. The goal of every game is for everyone to have fun and play fair, right?

 

5) Discard everything I’ve just ranted about or suggested and bring out the 8-man wz queuing because honestly, the lack of drive to get better, skill-wise and/or equipment-wise, by a vast majority of players is getting to be mentally taxing and making me want to quit pvp all together which is the main reason why I play this game.

 

6) This one is wildly out there: Give ME a buff when these donkeys are on my team similar to that of the level 10-49 warzone buff so it IS possible for me to give them what they want and carry them to free gear. It’ll be like I’m a customer service droid and our little secret.

 

I do not agree with #2. I am a Jedi Guardian and spend time defending a node. I don't see why I should be penalized since I'm the reason my team can feel safe the node is in good hands; I report an attack on the node to which my teammates often help. I see no reason whatsoever to penalize a defender at all. I am not AFK! Just because I stand there doesn't mean I'm doing nothing! I have a very important job to do!

[itschowda]

I do not agree with #2. I am a Jedi Guardian and spend time defending a node. I don't see why I should be penalized since I'm the reason my team can feel safe the node is in good hands; I report an attack on the node to which my teammates often help. I see no reason whatsoever to penalize a defender at all. I am not AFK! Just because I stand there doesn't mean I'm doing nothing! I have a very important job to do!

 

Might wanna re-read my #2. I want an increase in the time it takes based on how many people are there. I single defend turrets as well which is why I said the more people there are, the longer it should take. Even if it's a little bit longer. I also believe that the solo defender has an important job and deserves the medals you get for actually defending the turret and calling out incoming hostiles which is why I'm ok with doing it sometimes. The whole point of me wanting a nerf on the defender medals you get is because of the quitter attitude some people have that's almost always stated: "Well we can't cap anything else, so let's farm defender points." So if there are A LOT of people sitting on a turret it's basically conceding, thus I feel they should be penalized for leaving the rest of their team out in the cold.

[DNGDangerous]

5) Discard everything I’ve just ranted about or suggested...

as of 05/08/12 patch... looks like they went with the 1st part of option 5.

[blabbuh]

as of 05/08/12 patch... looks like they went with the 1st part of option 5.

 

Looks like they gave you a giant middle finger as well because they brought back the "play X warzones" daily. PvP dailies are too easy now. FREE GEAR FOR THE MOOCHERS! HOORAY!

[SithLady]

I like to PvP now and again. I'm not a HUGE PvP'er, but I like to get in there once in a while. But when I can take a group of 3 others (full 4 preson group) and we can run through an HM like FE, then que up and feel like a level 10 fighting a fully Ops geared leveld 50, there's a problem. Some people dont have the time to spend. I think they need to rethink the -

ok, I just had an idea!

What a PvP Skill Tree? Forget what gear you have. the more play and win the faster you can level this tree. And rank it at certain points. Use the vaor ranks since it's already there! Centurian ranked play with centurian ranked. Duelists play with duelists! This is what needs to happen. throw out teh Expertise rank altogether.

just my 2 cents

[Sliverspark]

Essentially, what you are asking here, is that players that aren't extremely active in PvP get penalized.

 

Never, in any game should a player be penalized for playing, or wanting to play. Sit back and ask yourself this: Is this fun for the player? Not, "Is it fun for me?". No one liked deduced warzone rewards, that's why they recently just made it so when you lose, you still get some commendations and Valor experience.

 

Having any sort of "Gearscore" system is a bad idea, because it will NEVER be utilized for good. This has already been proven and I've also lived it in other games. I recall a particular instance where I was healing a party in a dungeon in non-healers gear. No one died the entire dungeon, and the heals were just fine; but people were still complaining - which is absolutely preposterous. All a Gearscore system does it oust players that don't play as much as others. If you think about it, it's not really needed. If you don't like playing with an under-geared player, then you can simply leave and find another party; because I can guarantee you they aren't.

 

I think it's good you put time into figuring this system out, but I don't see it working too well in this game, or any other. My apologies. I will note though, that a few of the things you have described will be put into the game when Ranked Warzones are finally introduced.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Sliverspark

[itschowda]

Essentially, what you are asking here, is that players that aren't extremely active in PvP get penalized.

 

Never, in any game should a player be penalized for playing, or wanting to play. Sit back and ask yourself this: Is this fun for the player? Not, "Is it fun for me?". No one liked deduced warzone rewards, that's why they recently just made it so when you lose, you still get some commendations and Valor experience.

 

Having any sort of "Gearscore" system is a bad idea, because it will NEVER be utilized for good. This has already been proven and I've also lived it in other games. I recall a particular instance where I was healing a party in a dungeon in non-healers gear. No one died the entire dungeon, and the heals were just fine; but people were still complaining - which is absolutely preposterous. All a Gearscore system does it oust players that don't play as much as others. If you think about it, it's not really needed. If you don't like playing with an under-geared player, then you can simply leave and find another party; because I can guarantee you they aren't.

 

I think it's good you put time into figuring this system out, but I don't see it working too well in this game, or any other. My apologies. I will note though, that a few of the things you have described will be put into the game when Ranked Warzones are finally introduced.

 

What I'm asking for is a way to stop the people that only play warzones because they see it as free gear for very little work, removing the fun for people who are actually trying to win. Your "ask yourself" statement is somewhat contradictory as I am also a player, so why can't it be made fun for me as well? Nobody liked the deducted warzone commendations for a loss for two reasons: 1) 1.2 was bugged so that even if you hit your medal cap on a losing team you still got absolutely nothing and 2) there are more moochers looking for free gear than you'd expect so of course they're going to complain about not getting anything for not trying.

 

I don't fully remember my OP, but didn't I say something SIMILAR to a gear score system? Not gear score specific? I know for sure I said it could be based on one stat or multiple stats. Since it's for randomizing the teams, it could even be a hidden stat that players can't use to "oust" eachother. I know which game to which you're referring and that made your gear score inspect-able for all the public to see. If leaving a warzone and immediately finding a queue into another warzone were simple, I WOULD leave and let the bads/moochers to their own devices, but seeing as how my formerly "FULL" population server is now a "LIGHT" population server, that's a very difficult thing to do.

 

I overheard my friend watching some sort of developer interview about 1.3 and supposedly (if you listen between the lines) since people are too cheap to spend 150-300k credits on full recruit gear, they're even going to have chests that spawn in the Outlaw's Den on Tatooine giving a chance at free recruit gear. First they introduce the gear, then they make it cheaper, and now they're offering it for free with a bit of foot work. Seems to me that they recognize my complaint to the point (and others may have complained about it also), but don't feel like doing very much to fix the problem that may be impossible to fix due to the fact that it's about a player's attitude towards any sort of "hard" work.

 

I think I'd settle simply for 8 man queues. It doesn't even have to be rated warzones, just the ability to queue up to 8 players to lessen the odds of getting the "carry me to free gear" players. I'd also settle for cross-server queues, maybe if I can get teammates from another server I might have better luck not getting the players that bane my existence and make me want to quit PVP altogether, which btw is 90% of the reason I play this game.

[itschowda]

I like to PvP now and again. I'm not a HUGE PvP'er, but I like to get in there once in a while. But when I can take a group of 3 others (full 4 preson group) and we can run through an HM like FE, then que up and feel like a level 10 fighting a fully Ops geared leveld 50, there's a problem. Some people dont have the time to spend. I think they need to rethink the -

ok, I just had an idea!

What a PvP Skill Tree? Forget what gear you have. the more play and win the faster you can level this tree. And rank it at certain points. Use the vaor ranks since it's already there! Centurian ranked play with centurian ranked. Duelists play with duelists! This is what needs to happen. throw out teh Expertise rank altogether.

just my 2 cents

 

What you're saying is essentially Rated warzones, which we were promised in 1.2 or "coming soon" shortly after, but has yet to arrive. This isn't about finding the time to play to gear up, it's about the fact that they pretty much said, "You just hit 50 and want to PVP? Here's a nice set of gear, it's actually better than what a lot of people worked hard to earn pre-1.2." Full recruit armor is cheap, requires no valor rank, requires no commendations, and has a very good stat line for what you're buying. The problem is that even with the cost reduction, players still feel that they can get by with their level 41 green gear and just slowly grind their way to battlemaster gear, no skill or real effort required, just complete the warzone and huzzah free commendations. Some people go as even running wz bots or "dual box" where they just run two computers, two accounts, and afk at least one of the characters.

[RachelAnne]

The whole pvp at Tor but also at wow for instance is just frustrating at some point.

 

There are no gear, skill checks - so that undergeared solo q´s without a healer meet high end geared premades with 2 or 3.

 

Bw should add a queue system where you can queue as a tank, healer or dps. Then there should be a queue for 8mens and for solo players both with rewards equal to the performance at the WZ´s.

 

Right now you can have luck and meet another pug that has as much healers and tanks like you or you are unlucky (in most cases) and face a full decked premade...

[itschowda]

The whole pvp at Tor but also at wow for instance is just frustrating at some point.

 

There are no gear, skill checks - so that undergeared solo q´s without a healer meet high end geared premades with 2 or 3.

 

Bw should add a queue system where you can queue as a tank, healer or dps. Then there should be a queue for 8mens and for solo players both with rewards equal to the performance at the WZ´s.

 

Right now you can have luck and meet another pug that has as much healers and tanks like you or you are unlucky (in most cases) and face a full decked premade...

 

Ways to control whom you queue with would be amazing, even the slightest improvement might make PVP fun again. Right now though, it seems like only the "best" on my server group together and aim to steamroll a group of pugs or are just plain attempting to make sure garbage pugs aren't on their team, making solo queue incredibly hard to obtain wins and sometimes even hit the 8 medal cap.

 

The amount of trash players also ends up leading to a lot of "smack" talking like, "Oh wow we steam rolled your premade with ours! We're better than you LOLOLOLOL." Even though most players tend to forget that there are 4 other people on each team because guess what? We're only allowed to queue as a group of 4 maximum.