War Hero Grind is nice

[richardya]

Oringinal Poster must play on the dominate side of a server.

 

I play a Sharpshooter spec Gunslinger (Republic) and an Infiltration spec Shadow (Republic,) both in the 50 bracket. Two classes generally considered underpowered, I play on the republic side on the Kellers Void server I would say it's pretty balanced but some say it's Empire favored. I have never been in a premade but play with and against them all the time. I rarely cry and never quit but enjoy about 95% of the matches.

 

Bad assumption my brother.

Edited May 4, 2012 by richardya

[AltruisticRage]

Current theory suggests adding extrinsic motivations to something that should be and is intrinsically motivating can actually curb interest in the activity. It is certainly obvious that intrinsic motivation would provide more effort and concern than extrinsic motivations.

 

When games had PvP components (old school shooters, etc.) with no additional reward structure, the life the of game from a competitive standpoint seems to be extended. Adding rewards (extrinsic motivators) on top of that system seems to stem the interest in the activity over the long run. In other words, it won't work long term. This is all currently theory but I can at least personally attest to that notion.

 

Remove the gear grind as a means of competitive advancement and not only does the game immediately become easier to balance but the players are motivated to compete simply because they enjoy the game. It is important to note that the gear disparity (no matter how quickly overcome), is disparaging to new players and actually removes incentive to pvp with alts. This is one of the main reasons that I intend on playing GW2 PvP.

[Ahhmyface]

Queuing in an underhanded match has nothing to do with gear. That is a separate issue, and unequal gear progression is clearly a symptom and not a cause.

 

As for your second part... its far too abstract to make any sense of it. Yes, an ideal game integrates different avenues to enjoy themselves. That is not a concept anyone has difficulty understanding. The interesting part comes when you start talking specifics.

 

In general, there are modes that cannot be integrated. Motives that are simply too irrational or shortsighted, or are detrimental to other players to a high degree. You might have fun 1 shotting entire groups, or griefing lowbies, but in general, such mechanics tend to lose more players than they add.

 

Killtraders are a prime example. No killtrader ever professed that they enjoyed killtrading. It also accomplishes absolutely nothing because it leaves your relative power levels identical. So its not fun, and it doesn't do anything. That is more or less a product of unintelligent, lazy, or shortsighted players. It is an irrational action, and by that token, rather difficult to integrate as a viablepath. In no situation will people be satisfied with the result.

[SWImara]

I'll be honest. This statement makes a lot of what you said previous to it come off as fairly impotent. Accepting something for what it is when there is large potential for what it easily could be, is pretty stagnating.

To each his own I suppose, essentially I don't imagine that any amount of SWTOR forum discussion is going to motivate the developers to make this game something new and revolutionary in PvP. I certainly wouldn't expect anything mind-blowing outside of an expansion and what I currently see in the game is a system of PvP which supports nothing but gear-grinding. This was the problem with Ilum and kill trading, no one was kill trading because they thought it was "fun" (at least I have a very hard time believing so) they did it because they viewed gear as the point of PvP and kill-trading to be the most efficient means to gear up. We ended up with our current (WZ only) approach to PvP directly as a result of all the game's rewards now coming from WZs, ie the same reason people did Ilum before. Without making all gear equal/meaningless/trivial (which would doubtless make PvP less popular among some though arguably more fun) I am not sure that the developers can somehow change this behavior, but maybe I'm just being negative.

 

All of that being said, what I am talking about is an issue of systems. As someone on an RP server I am sure you understand that ultimately lots of the most valuable PvP comes from the player base, and that even with garbage systems of support players can and often will come up with ways to have fun (I had tons of fun PvPing in LotRO of all games, due to a great community on my server). I think that when people look back on their PvP glory days often they forget that reality and assume that its the system alone that's the problem. Sure some system issues contribute to crappy PvP (RvR design and lack of consequences are two examples for me) but I suspect that a not-so-great player base could make even the most well designed system (Let alone something like Ilum, well intentioned but bad) into a hot mess.

Edited May 4, 2012 by SWImara

[AlyxDinas]

In general, there are modes that cannot be integrated. Motives that are simply too irrational or shortsighted, or are detrimental to other players to a high degree. You might have fun 1 shotting entire groups, or griefing lowbies, but in general, such mechanics tend to lose more players than they add.

 

Killtraders are a prime example. No killtrader ever professed that they enjoyed killtrading. It also accomplishes absolutely nothing because it leaves your relative power levels identical. So its not fun, and it doesn't do anything. That is more or less a product of unintelligent, lazy, or shortsighted players. It is an irrational action, and by that token, rather difficult to integrate as a viablepath. In no situation will people be satisfied with the result.

 

This talk of killtrading is barely worth comment because killtrading is not a design philosophy or a mode of play one aims for in a design. It is a symptom of a poorly designed system, pertinent to player desires for either a) gear for the gear's sake or b) remain competitive. Thus, harping about it adds little to the discussion. It is not a play style.

 

When we speak of modes of play we talk about many of the core experiences that appeal to the personality types of the Bartle Test, particularly Killers and Achievers. Specifically, for PvP, this means the creation of an environment where the former can feel that their skill can, within reason, will always be an important factor in the achievement of personal goals and victories. With the latter, this means providing a clear track of mobility upwards through items or at the very least rewarding play suitably.

 

The great thing about the latter is that these rewards more often than not don't need to revolve around significant statistical advantage. This provides a pretty good place to begin integrating notions of progression, especially in this game.

Edited May 4, 2012 by AlyxDinas