Pyrotech fire damage OP!

[DimeStax]

BH's (mercenaries) can not do 8K since the fix last week (or was it the week before?)

 

PS: Guild Mara had a lucky string of procs and crits /buffs and did 15K Damage over the course of a Ravage, with a 7.5k+ Last hit. That's 3 Seconds...

 

It's not the numbers that are ridiculous, maybe it's just the combination/rotation or the cooldown on Railshot that is reduced in melee range? Juggs/Maras and Snipers do a ton of burst damage as well, in fact it's not out of the question to see a Sharpshooter/Sniper do 8-9k damage in 1.5 seconds with Ambush then Followthrough, although it doesn't happen a whole lot because white damage get's mitigated a ton through defenses and cooldowns.

 

I can't quite put my finger on what it is that they're doing that is so OP and so far right now all I can say is that put out way too much damage, way too fast, way to frequently.

[VoidJustice]

Against a person not paying attention at all, I can do a maximum of 10-12k damage, but that takes 4 GCDs.

 

Wow.. only 4 GCD's... The skill it must take to manage such a thing...

 

lol...

 

Whats hysterical is I came in to this thread with a bunch of doubt about whether what I thought BH's were doing could be possible. I left here knowing to just quit the WZ everytime I see that premade with 4 BH's and 4 sorc's now... lol

 

thanks for the skoolin... that's no foolin...

 

and no Juggs ARE NOT doing that kind of damage in any kind of consistant way I assure you. I have no idea if Mara's are although I don't think so cause I eatem up yum...

 

half WH/half BM best crit dispatch I've ever hit was like 6100 and it happened once, most dispatches hit around 4k and that's all I got... but... don't cry for me argentina...

 

p.s. I kill tons of BH's you guys go down fast which is why Im not complaining or calling for nerfs btw... just a whole new respect and honestly, that damage is a bit much... come on...

Edited May 2, 2012 by VoidJustice

[DimeStax]

I dont know my class? Youre kidding right? Lets break it down........

 

Thermal Detonator: 3.5-4k damage, if I use a WZ adrenal I can get up near 5k against low expertise and/or squishy targets.

Rail Shot: 2.5-3.5k, again close to 4k if I use a WZ adrenal. Rail Shot is weapon damage, so is incredibly finicky and barely breaks 1k on a non-crit

Incedniary Missile: a set-up dot, ticks for 18s and does minimal damage.

Combustible Gas Cylinder: 10% chance to proc on weapon damage, 6s duration, ~2k elemental damage. helpful for setting up the bigger combos to conserve heat.

Power Shot: 1.5-2.5k, again, white damage so not reliable, but can proc more Rail Shots

Unload: 2-4k, more white damage so need lots of crits to do anything worthwhile.

 

Defensive Cooldowns?

Energy Shield: 2min CD, 25% damage reduction. Pyrotech's can spec into having Energy Shield remove movement impairing effects (root and slow, not stun) but it provides no immunity to being re-slowed/rooted immediately after hitting it. This defensive cooldown is mediocre at best, and yet I see people comparing it to Marauders and Juggernauts defensive cooldowns? Come on now........

Kolto Overload: sort of a defensive cooldown, heals 15% health over 10s. Best used for healing up quickly when running into another fight, and not much of a defensive cooldown.

 

That's Merc. Powertech's do not have any other defensive cooldowns, their survive-ability comes from the Shield tree, which if theyre spec'd Pyrotech they probably dont have many points in.

 

Against a person not paying attention at all, I can do a maximum of 10-12k damage, but that takes 4 GCDs.

 

Stop crying overpowered because you got beat. Learn the weaknesses of the class you lost to, figure out how to exploit them, and then execute that plan. Its not rocket science.........

 

Oh and heavy armor does not increase your survive-ability. You get 4-5% extra damage mitigation from heavy armor over medium, thats it. So a 5,000 damage attack against someone wearing medium armor does ~4800 damage to someone wearing heavy armor. Not a big difference....

 

You know your class so well that you left out Tranq Dart (ranged 4 sec stun) and Carbonize (AOE stun) out of your list of survivability cooldowns. Two things Maras/Jugs don't have.

[cashogy]

Wow.. only 4 GCD's... The skill it must take to manage such a thing...

 

lol...

 

Whats hysterical is I came in to this thread with a bunch of doubt about whether what I thought BH's were doing could be possible. I left here knowing to just quit the WZ everytime I see that premade with 4 BH's and 4 sorc's now... lol

 

thanks for the skoolin... that's no foolin...

 

and no Juggs ARE NOT doing that kind of damage in any kind of consistant way I assure you. I have no idea if Mara's are.

 

Where did I say it required any skill to press 4 buttons? It doesnt..... This game is very easy, yet surprisingly a massive number of players are terrible at it.

 

There are ZERO premades with 4 BHs AND 4 Sorcs. It is only possible to queue 4 players at once. The amount of luck involved to get that kind of a warzone means it is likely going to occur in a 100% pug. Most premade groups are well rounded anyways; premades typically bring at least 1 healer and usually 1 tank. A premade with 4 dps is kind of dumb

 

Juggs are not doing that kind of damage because theyre are a tank spec. Rage spec has a much longer set-up for Smash to hit hard, and it is easily countered by stunning/knocking back the Jugg to break up his combo.

 

Marauders are doing that kind of damage though; right now they are the best offensive spec in warzones hands down.

[DimeStax]

Where did I say it required any skill to press 4 buttons? It doesnt..... This game is very easy, yet surprisingly a massive number of players are terrible at it.

 

There are ZERO premades with 4 BHs AND 4 Sorcs. It is only possible to queue 4 players at once. The amount of luck involved to get that kind of a warzone means it is likely going to occur in a 100% pug. Most premade groups are well rounded anyways; premades typically bring at least 1 healer and usually 1 tank. A premade with 4 dps is kind of dumb

 

Juggs are not doing that kind of damage because theyre are a tank spec. Rage spec has a much longer set-up for Smash to hit hard, and it is easily countered by stunning/knocking back the Jugg to break up his combo.

 

Marauders are doing that kind of damage though; right now they are the best offensive spec in warzones hands down.

 

No, PT Pyros are the best offensive spec. Marauders are just annoying as hell as you can't kill them for 5 seconds after they pop undying rage. You can successfully stun/cc/kite them around effectively to make Marauders behave, but a PT Pyro you can't since they are still effective from range for the duration they are rooted/snared.

[Hethroin]

no, I've stated several times I wasn't very sure of what happened, and then the BH's confirmed they can do 8k damage while your stunned for 4 seconds and I've seen BH's do that 8k damage 1 shot, so now Im almost 100% sure what's going on.

 

still wouldn't call for nerfs but... man... whew...

 

Powertech does not have a single ability that can ever hit for 8k. A Mercinary can fully debuff you pop adrenals and maybe do 7k, different class, different abilities.

 

8k damage in 4 seconds is hardly game stopping every other DPS spec can do the same, from Annihilation Marauder to Deception Assassin.

 

I'll repeat what has been said before:

 

What you see when your health drops by 60% within 4 seconds is the combination of abilities that has been in progress for 8 secods. In timeline form:

 

t = 0.0 : Thermal Detonator thrown (will do 3k to 4k damage in one hit 4 seconds later)

t = 1.5 : Incindiary Missile (may crit for 1k on opening, tics for 300 crit. Is used to allow a Rail Shot to be fired at you)

t = 3.0 : Electro Dart (stun happens here)

(DPS Cooldowns are popped here)

t = 4.0 : Thermal Detonator explodes.

t = 4.5 : Rail Shot (This is the first hit you notice that you are being hit, can crit for 5k on fresh 50s, usually crits for around 4k on standard targets with cooldowns up see above )

t = 6.0 : Rocket Punch (has 60% chance to reset Rail Shot, 6 second internal cooldown for reset, crits for around 3k with cooldowns up see above )

Optimal Version: Rail Shot was reset

t = 7.5 : Rail Shot.

Less Than Optimal Version: Rail Shot was NOT reset

t = 7.5 : Flame Burst (45% chance to reset Rail Shot same 6 second ICD on reset.)

t = 9.0 : Rail Shot (if the pyro is lucky)

[VoidJustice]

There are ZERO premades with 4 BHs AND 4 Sorcs. It is only possible to queue 4 players at once. The amount of luck involved to get that kind of a warzone means it is likely going to occur in a 100% pug.

 

it's super easy on a low pop server to rig a 8 man... once again this isn't speculation this is experience ... every day experience.

 

...and no they all fly the same guild tag...

 

and once again, Im not calling for nerfs but, Im not sure if I'd every be lame enough to play a class that could do what you say your class does by admission regardless of what I think may have happend in any one given Wz...

Edited May 2, 2012 by VoidJustice

[exphryl]

You know your class so well that you left out Tranq Dart (ranged 4 sec stun) and Carbonize (AOE stun) out of your list of survivability cooldowns. Two things Maras/Jugs don't have.

 

Awe (which is AMAZING in all the warzones) and Force Choke (Which buffs their abilities as well, and can be talented by Juggs to work similar to electro dart. )

 

Soo...Not a good comparison between Carbonize and Electro Dart

[cashogy]

You know your class so well that you left out Tranq Dart (ranged 4 sec stun) and Carbonize (AOE stun) out of your list of survivability cooldowns. Two things Maras/Jugs don't have.

 

Electro Dart is not a defensive cooldown. It is a CC affect, and is best used when going on the offensive. Merc has a lack of interrupts, so we have to use our stuns as interrupts. A 4s stun means a BH has 2 GCDs to attack unmolested. Nobody at level 50 is going to be killed in 2 GCDs, ever.

 

Carbonize is a 2.5 second stun (3s if you have the 2pc PvP bonus), which means the Powertech can use one ability on the stunned target (1.5 GCD when you use the stun, 1.5 GCD on your next ability, stun over). Again, this is a CC affect, not a defensive cooldown.

 

Defensive cooldowns are abilities to resist/reduce/avoid damage. CC affects do stop your opponent from damaging you, but they are not defensive cooldowns.

 

Mara/Jugg have interrupts and an aoe mez. Marauder has the 3 best defensive cooldowns for a DPS spec in the game, on top of a handful of slows/roots and a charge to stay on their target. Jugg has a handful of defensive cooldowns as well, and even a tank tree if you really want more survive-ability.

 

I think Marauders have plenty of defensive cooldowns and utility to go with their super awesome damage. Not sure what youre complaining about........

[VoidJustice]

Awe (which is AMAZING in all the warzones) and Force Choke (Which buffs their abilities as well, and can be talented by Juggs to work similar to electro dart. )

 

Soo...Not a good comparison between Carbonize and Electro Dart

 

ROTFL

 

yea cause a Tank spec'ed Juggernaut is gonna do 12k damage in 4 seconds.. lol...

prolly right after he gets that second lightsaber and uses his 31,31,31 spec...

 

seriously, Im not arguing you guys need a nerf, your doing a great job yourselves.

 

Force Choke buffs abilities... lol... yea it buffs the Im channeling 300 damage a second RAWR ability...

 

I really don't think you guys need a nerf... but, the more you talk... the worse it gets... I gotta go... glhf

 

o and yes AWE is AWESOME but, it breaks on any damage ... so it's not really the same.

Edited May 2, 2012 by VoidJustice

[cashogy]

it's super easy on a low pop server to rig a 8 man... once again this isn't speculation this is experience ... every day experience.

 

...and no they all fly the same guild tag...

 

and once again, Im not calling for nerfs but, Im not sure if I'd every be lame enough to play a class that could do what you say your class does by admission regardless of what I think may have happend in any one given Wz...

 

If you play on a low pop server that is not a good reflection of game balance. If you want to play on a server with balanced classes, roll on a high pop server. That is your own fault.

 

And guess what? I play a DPS class. That means I do damage. Every DPS class has a way to do a crap ton of damage in a short amount of time.

 

I do not comprehend why people complain about DPS classes doing DPS. Though I guess it makes sense, since you all complained about healing classes healing. I imagine complaining that tank classes can tank is coming up shortly?

[Hethroin]

ROTFL

 

yea cause a Tank spec'ed Juggernaut is gonna do 12k damage in 4 seconds.. lol...

prolly right after he gets that second lightsaber and uses his 31,31,31 spec...

 

seriously, Im not arguing you guys need a nerf, your doing a great job yourselves.

 

Force Choke buffs abilities... lol... yea it buffs the Im channeling 300 damage a second RAWR ability...

 

I really don't think you guys need a nerf... but, the more you talk... the worse it gets... I gotta go... glhf

 

Are you comparing the Damage capacity of a Tank spec Jug to the Damage capacity of a DPS spec PT?

[cashogy]

ROTFL

 

yea cause a Tank spec'ed Juggernaut is gonna do 12k damage in 4 seconds.. lol...

prolly right after he gets that second lightsaber and uses his 31,31,31 spec...

 

seriously, Im not arguing you guys need a nerf, your doing a great job yourselves.

 

Force Choke buffs abilities... lol... yea it buffs the Im channeling 300 damage a second RAWR ability...

 

I really don't think you guys need a nerf... but, the more you talk... the worse it gets... I gotta go... glhf

 

o and yes AWE is AWESOME but, it breaks on any damage ... so it's not really the same.

 

If youre tank spec your not supposed to do 12k damage in 4 seconds. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO MITIGATE DAMAGE

 

Force Choke buffs Smash. A Rage spec'd Jugg needs to get full duration out of Force Choke to get the maximum damage bonus to Smash.

 

Awe is an aoe MEZ. it is supposed to break on damage, just like every other mez in the game....

 

Marauders and juggs have enough tools to do their job and do it well. So do mercs and powertechs. They are apples and oranges however, as one is ranged and the other melee. There is very little comparison between the 2 specs other than their overall function. So comparing their abilities like they are supposed to match up is idiotic; the similarities end beyond "tank" or "dps"

[VoidJustice]

Are you comparing the Damage capacity of a Tank spec Jug to the Damage capacity of a DPS spec PT?

 

Someone else was... and I was pointing out the ridiculousness of it.

 

At least I admit I didn't know about the BH stuff and learned from you guys.

 

anywayz thou... thanks for the info.. keep on keepin on! Here's to hoping for less qq and more

pew pew... and please

/don'tshootmebro

 

p.s. also for the last time... Im not saying your OP/need nerfs etc... I leave that up to the rest of the community (god save u) and the Dev's

Edited May 2, 2012 by VoidJustice

[ShawnFish]

too much to read - - - - wow . . . :wea

[Marisblood]

I play shadow dps and i kill them in fair 1v1 fight. But when the healers get in the shadow dps cant simply keep up and lose in the end. Why? Because Shadow opening burst is insane ( i do 15k dmg in 5 sec-counting here the rotation) but after GCD you lack in either mobility or utility. I prefer a nerf for my class, i prefer less burst when i open a fight but that burst too be constant all the way after. Atm shadow infiltration is working from turbo mode to frog mode. From hi speed to slow motion.

Constant dps is far beter in WZ and long fights then a short burst damage. The dmg shadows/asasins put when they open a fight is OP and need nerfed but the dmg they sustain after is LOL and need huge buffs.

Regarding pirothech they put insane dps in long fights and this need a closer look. Like sentinels need a closer look too.

This is my opinion. I dont call for nerf but for balance. On my realm infiltration is a rarity. We are only 2-3 max . While tanks are all over the places. Cause they are far beter. In dps and survivability.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Marisblood

[Scoobings]

Well... once again, I won't call for a nerf but, getting killed in stunlock even once a match, isn't really a bunch of fun and if you get hit with that while stunned... you have no chance to survive that rotation. Does that spec get electo dart or whatever, cause that's what I get hit by before Im 16k to 0 before stun is over.

 

As a guardian I think they should get shields and heavy armor as compensation for losing that ridiculous dps cause as everyone knows Heavy armor and shields are sooo usefull in pvp.

 

The spec has electrodart and Carbonize. I can't think of a combo that a pyrotech can do that can deal 16k in 2.5 seconds (4 second stun, minus 1.5 seconds for the global). The most damage I could possibly see you taking given all crits would be a 4k TD, a 5k railshot, with a 900 Combustable Gas proc off railshot.

 

It's a lot of damage, given some good favor by the RNG gods with a relic/adrenal popped, but that's not 16k. You had to have been hit by something else.

[Scoobings]

I think you can reduce their damage a bit and not touch anything else on the class. I'd say their defensive abilities are on par with that of a Jugg and Marauder (the other melee classes), the OP has a little bit more but the PT Pyro still wears heavy armor and doesn't have to use his defensive cooldowns during his offensive rotation like the OP does, meaning he can save them for when he really needs them as opposed to having to use them as an opener.

 

I'd disagree. Especially with your point about maurader. They get more CDs, on shorter CDs, that are more potent...

 

Juggs get the same amount of CDs, but their CDs are better. In my opinion, blade ward > Energy shield (though it's close) and last stand is WAAAAAY better than kolto overload. I wouldn't even consider that CD survivability. It's not even keybound for me, I click it when I have nothing else going on.

 

That move would have some potential, actually, to give the class some survivability. Maybe tone down the damage and buff Kolto for Pyrotechs. Something to make them not get bent over.

[-Eternal-]

In a very long line of needed nerfs, bounty hunters is far down on that list. Lets be honest.

[DimeStax]

Awe (which is AMAZING in all the warzones) and Force Choke (Which buffs their abilities as well, and can be talented by Juggs to work similar to electro dart. )

 

Soo...Not a good comparison between Carbonize and Electro Dart

 

They are comparable for being melee classes. Awe is broken on damage, Carbonize is not as it is a stun. Tranq dart is a 30 or 35 range 4 second stun and can be used in many more different scenarios because of that. Since we're talking about CC abilities the fact that you mentioned that Force Choke"buffs their other abilities" makes no difference as we're only referring to the stun portion of the ability, which is a channeled ability for 3 seconds that can only be used from a 10m range... and just looking at the CC part of it, it is not better than Tranq Dart.

[Monterone]

Pyro PT damage really is amazing. I play a PT, a Tankassin in DPS gear, and my first main, a Sorc.

 

Pyro has the best damage, hands down. Assassin is the best overall, but I'm getting a bit bored with it. With my sin, 27/2/12, I can put out about 75-80% of the damage my pyro can do, while keeping VASTLY superior survivability. On the other hand, Pyro is just more fun, even if I die more frequently!

 

An assassin is constantly on the move and is very constricted by range, often getting the brunt of the attacks right in the middle of the battle. PT, on the other hand, just dances on the sidelines, floating and moving constantly, if only to not draw attention to himself from being a static target. Every once in a while you move in to carbonize, throw a few punches or flamebursts and then retreat around the corner again -- much more fun.

 

Overall, I'd rank the pyro PT and Tankassin equally. One has a bit more damage while being much squishier. The other has great utility, decent damage, perfect survivability and more difficult play style, but very gratifying. If I were a straight up min/maxer I'd play my Tankassin, but I find the half ranged, half melee play style more fun, at least in this game.

[DimeStax]

I'd disagree. Especially with your point about maurader. They get more CDs, on shorter CDs, that are more potent...

 

Juggs get the same amount of CDs, but their CDs are better. In my opinion, blade ward > Energy shield (though it's close) and last stand is WAAAAAY better than kolto overload. I wouldn't even consider that CD survivability. It's not even keybound for me, I click it when I have nothing else going on.

 

That move would have some potential, actually, to give the class some survivability. Maybe tone down the damage and buff Kolto for Pyrotechs. Something to make them not get bent over.

 

The thing is that PTs aren't having survivability issues, so why fix something that isn't broke. The only thing that is broke is that they are doing damage too fast, too frequently. You're arguing that they're insane offensive output is their best defense so if they nerf offense then they need to buff defense. I would say for a dps class their defensive cooldowns, utility and heavy armor is fine for them as is, and they just need to do less damage.

Edited May 2, 2012 by DimeStax

[Scoobings]

The thing is that PTs aren't having survivability issues, so why fix something that isn't broke. The only thing that is broke is that they are doing damage too fast, too frequently. You're arguing that they're insane offensive output is their best defense so if they nerf offense then they need to buff defense. I would say for a dps class their defense and utility is fine, they just need to do less damage.

 

They're not fine if they get focused. Nothing shuts my game down on my PT harder than getting focused. That's not really the point though.

 

The point is, the only thing they bring to the table is damage. If you nerf that damage, they won't bring anything to the table. Over survivability, I would rather seem some kind of utility. Maybe a Mezz of somekind, I don't know. They need something for it though, imo. I guess it's agree to disagree. It's kind of futile to argue that point anyway because BW isn't in the business of adding, just subtracting.

[exphryl]

The thing is that PTs aren't having survivability issues,.

 

But..they are.

 

A PT that isn't being attacked isn't going to die. Or a PT with a Pocket Healer is harder to take down (But so is any class)

 

Personally I'd like to see Degauss moved up a few tiers and grant immunity while Energy Shield is active, or a slight root when TD goes off.

Edited May 2, 2012 by exphryl

[Scoobings]

Pyro PT damage really is amazing. I play a PT, a Tankassin in DPS gear, and my first main, a Sorc.

 

Pyro has the best damage, hands down. Assassin is the best overall, but I'm getting a bit bored with it. With my sin, 27/2/12, I can put out about 75-80% of the damage my pyro can do, while keeping VASTLY superior survivability. On the other hand, Pyro is just more fun, even if I die more frequently!

 

An assassin is constantly on the move and is very constricted by range, often getting the brunt of the attacks right in the middle of the battle. PT, on the other hand, just dances on the sidelines, floating and moving constantly, if only to not draw attention to himself from being a static target. Every once in a while you move in to carbonize, throw a few punches or flamebursts and then retreat around the corner again -- much more fun.

 

Overall, I'd rank the pyro PT and Tankassin equally. One has a bit more damage while being much squishier. The other has great utility, decent damage, perfect survivability and more difficult play style, but very gratifying. If I were a straight up min/maxer I'd play my Tankassin, but I find the half ranged, half melee play style more fun, at least in this game.

 

This has been my experience so far, except I don't find tankassin harder to play. Then again, I'm only level 45 on my Tanksin (my sig is a little out-dated) so who knows.