Merc/commando "fix" Suggestion: Op/Smug Overload/Quick Shot

[Diddley]

Please use this link to the commando forum to discuss so that discussion stays in one place... http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=438002

 

First of all, I use "fix" tentatively because some people...

a) think Merc/Commandos are fine

b) will disagree on this suggestion

c) believe the class is so inherently broken that a complete rework of each tree is needed (there is some weight to this argument )

 

Sweeping that aside, my main observation from playing a merc is the complete lack of mobility and how interruptable we are when confronted with a melee class. This is because we have no instant cast, cooldown mid-range/melee ability that is without cooldown. In short we completely crumble when a melee class is in our grill. I am of course aware that assault/pyrotech is a more mobile spec, but the still requires a cast/channel to proc rail shot/high impact bolt; we certainly don't get the same synergy as our PT/VG bros!

 

My suggestion to help fix mercs and commandos is a mid range (8-10 metres), moderate damage instant cast blaster shot similar to or replicating Operative's Overload Shot, or Smuggler's Quick Shot. These are filler skills used by Ops and Smugs to keep dps up when everything is on cooldown (at least that's how I use it with my operative).

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/9pHRoRz/overload-shot

http://www.torhead.com/ability/4WwZBO8/quick-shot

 

I believe a skill like this would go a long way to fix the class as our fragility in close quarters due to cast times is our biggest failing. Giving more of a punch and rotation would make it much more enjoyable to play.

 

I believe this would not be OP as it would deal less damage than our core abilities, would have a reasonable 16 heat/2 ammo cost, and not be usable from over 8-10 metres, so would break our identity as ranged dps; just a little something to give us some edge when hassled or interrupted in melee.

 

All feedback and ideas are welcome but I would like to keep this thread in scope of my proposal, and not a blanket discussion for other suggestions (there are plenty of other threadfor that!). I will be bumping this thread for more exposure and to continue discussion. Please let me know your thoughts!

 

I have also posted this in the Commando forum for their input. Mirror thread can be found here... http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=438002

Edited April 29, 2012 by Diddley

[Rethban]

Yea I was thinking of this on other threads, ideas I feel can be reasoned with are railshot adjustments and an offensive dispel.

 

I'll stick to your quickshot idea for now. Usually I find I only use quickshot as a desperate last measure for a kill when my rapidshots won't cut it. Maybe if it was tweaked but then that would be the equivalent of giving bounty hunters the flame burst or ion pulse/shock w.e ability from powertech/vanguard. I think it discourages our ranged strength since if it was too strong to counter melee it would encourage closer ranged play, or too weak/nothing special then not used at all.

 

Arsenal has railshot, an ability that I think can be tweaked to encourage a burst->run->burst playstyle that most ranged casters are used to doing to fight melee. Railshot for arsenal is encouraged to be used after 5 whole casts, yet they already have heatseeker which is encouraged after 3 casts but doing more dmg, and is the ideal rewarding nuke for being able to get those casts off. Both abilities technically serve the same purpose so why have 2? Maybe tweak the railshot to like..... i dunno have its cd reduced each time you get tracer lock and making the max stacks like 2 and increasing the bonus dmg ratio but lowering the base dmg to encourage using in coincidence with tracer. Wishful thinking and could easily unbalance the pve rotation, but tracer is doing less anyways and unload is even "claimed" to have some issues so maybe a "tweak" wouldn't be a bad thing to think about.

[Diddley]

Sorry, dupe post Edited April 30, 2012 by Diddley

[Diddley]

Bumping

 

I think by giving us a decent instant blaster move or making power shot/charged bolts instant cast would go a long way to fixing the class.

 

Instant PS/CB would work great with supercharged gas/cells for healers, keep arsenal/gunnery dpsing when hassled, and would make pyro/assault WORK, almost to match our PT/VG bros. A 1.5 second cooldown or lower base damage could stop it being OP.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Diddley

[Kamahin]

You mean like the ability Missle Blast? Which you get at like, level 2? That has no CD, no cast time, and costs 25 or so heat?

[T-Assassin]

You mean like the ability Missle Blast? Which you get at like, level 2? That has no CD, no cast time, and costs 25 or so heat?

 

since level 10, that useless ability has been OFF my toolbar.

 

25 heat...

 

LOL

[Nuadul]

since level 10, that useless ability has been OFF my toolbar.

 

25 heat...

 

LOL

 

You laugh, but it accomplishes what everyone is asking for. An instant shot that can be used if melee are harassing you.

[Roanic]

I think our problem is defense, not offense.

 

If we had a 20-30 sec cd gap opener and a 15 second cd 2 second root I think it would go a long way towards fixing our class.

 

The gap opener would rocket pack us forward 25 yards. That would help to counter the multiple leaps and closers that other classes have that keep them constantly in our face.

 

The short root would allow us to force melee dps to use their defensive cd's defensively instead of saving them for when they are right on top of us and preventing us from being able to do anything to stop them.

 

These would allow us to actually use the dps abilities we already have.

[Diddley]

Missile blast costs 25 heat, has a massive time to impact but fair dps I suppose. Worst of all it procs nothing for any merc tree though.

 

Make it 16 heat, faster impact, slightly higher dps, and some synergy with our trees, then sure....

Edited May 2, 2012 by Diddley

[Kamahin]

So what you really want by what you said is Tracer missle with no cast time?

 

because that is what you described. To be instant you have to trade something. You said yourself it should be a last ditch help, not primary damage, which is exactly where it is right now.

[Diddley]

So what you really want by what you said is Tracer missle with no cast time?

 

because that is what you described. To be instant you have to trade something. You said yourself it should be a last ditch help, not primary damage, which is exactly where it is right now.

 

Clearly not. I would like to see a solution for all mercs.

 

I did not say last ditch help. I said it should make melee pressure more workable. I also said it should not be as high damage but not around ~1.1k base damage, which is poor with a 25 heat pricetag. MB is a world of difference from other key skills, not just 'lower'. So therefore, missile blast "exactly where it is" is clearly not what I'm after, otherwise I'd be happy, silly.

 

The drawback to my suggestion could also be range, hence 8-10 metres therefore not spammable at a distance, and only useful in melee.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Diddley

[Acim]

No, a 25 heat ability of any type is not going to help us at all against the marauder we are currently forced to facetank. 25 heat is a full quarter of our resources from fresh. If we have to pay 25% of our resource to fire it, it needs to do a heck of a lot more damage.

[CrookedCrooks]

You might not want to hear this but Missile Blast is the ability you are asking for, thats not to say it doesnt need some work. I think a fair compromise to this "Missile Blast is what you're asking for" argument would be to keep MB as is, but implement a talent or Merc passive ability that would:

 

increase the damage or

 

reduce the cost of MB when interrupted.

 

Similar in fact to Calculated Pursuit. This way you dont passively increase the damage if MB trying to make it useful so that it becomes a part of the rotation. This suggestion would keep MB as a situational but useful skill. Problem Solved.

[Acim]

Again, if it's going to cost 25% of our resources, it had better deal a LOT more damage. There is a reason it isn't on anyone's toolbar anymore.

[Zergxiu]

You mean like the ability Missle Blast? Which you get at like, level 2? That has no CD, no cast time, and costs 25 or so heat?

 

]i like your style! constructive thinking rather then complaining guess peoples complaint would then be the heat cost of it... so perhaps 1 ammo / 8 heat less cost, and all are happy?

[Diddley]

]i like your style! constructive thinking rather then complaining guess peoples complaint would then be the heat cost of it... so perhaps 1 ammo / 8 heat less cost, and all are happy?

 

Irony, you are basically stifling our discussion. This is not a qq thread. Mb would have to do considerably more damage as currently it does more or less the same as our free move. I don't see why you keep pushing it as if we don't know about it?

[Phrase]

You mean like the ability Missle Blast? Which you get at like, level 2? That has no CD, no cast time, and costs 25 or so heat?

 

Add the same 45% Railshot proc as Powershot gets from PPA and a 3 tick DoT to it and I'd be REALLY happy.

[Acim]

Exactly. For a pyro, the missile blast is 25 heat for an instant cast that does almost exactly the same amount of damage, plus a small splash damage. 25 heat is a heck of a lot. I can only think of 1 ability, fusion missile, that costs more heat, and even that is usually only used with the heat-canceling ability TSO. Why would we cast Missile blast when our free, non-heat generating move is just about the same damage?

 

For arsenal, we cant afford that kind of heat expenditure. By the time we need to fire off that close range blast, we likely aren't at zero heat. This means 2, maybe 3 missile blasts, and we're done. If it doesn't kill them, (and I assure you, it won't) we are done, maxxed on heat, and no better off that we were before.

 

We need an answer to the problem of being forced to facetank in a game where kiting is not a viable option outside of huttball. You can't LOS melee, after all.

[Kamahin]

And as a ranged class an ability with no cast time or cool down that we can use on the run would be absurd if we could use it with any kind of efficiency. If you cannot see that you really need to think more about the melee side of fighting.

 

I play both an assassin and Merc, so I've been on both sides. Playing my assassin has let me play my merc all that much better. If you play with ledges and knocking people back you can do a whole hell of a lot of pain on someone.

[Phrase]

And as a ranged class an ability with no cast time or cool down that we can use on the run would be absurd if we could use it with any kind of efficiency. If you cannot see that you really need to think more about the melee side of fighting.

 

I play both an assassin and Merc, so I've been on both sides. Playing my assassin has let me play my merc all that much better. If you play with ledges and knocking people back you can do a whole hell of a lot of pain on someone.

 

 

But where are the ledges in Voidstar and Novare Coast (well ledges that matter anyway)?

 

Seriously though, while I agree that some of the suggestions in this thread would make MB a bit too overpowered, it would be nice to have some additional proc effect added in order to bring MB in line with other high heat abilities. I mean when it does nearly the same dmg as our instant cast, free ability with no additional effect and costs us 1/4 of our resources, it's hardly worth keeping on the toolbar except as a VERY situational finisher against certain classes.

[Plaxy]

I've been thinking about replacing one mercs most useless talents no one picks up with any seriousness Gyroscopic Alighnments and replacing it with an actuall mobilizer someting like Rapid shots and Unload sport a chance to Proc Charged Up ((Charged up, Power Shot activation reduced by 100% on its next Use.))

[RedlionV]

I believe the class is pretty good, almost to good when played right. I currently play both commando and merc just because I love the play style. If your having alot of trouble against a melee class you need to re-evaluate how your fight them.

 

1. I agree about mobility, it sucks we have none.

2. Almost every other class has stealth. Our counter to that is a lousy scanner that we have to throw out on a guess and hope we hit something.

3. Hybrid builds are IMO the best way to play the class due to the fact that the end of our healing tree blows hard, the dot tree was fun, but just doesn't do enough to take out threats that focus you, and the full damage tree is just an inefficient ammo eater...

 

Out of these I feel that the anti-stealth option bothers me the most. Stealth scan should either 1 be an aura around the character using it or 2 stun targets caught in stealth.

 

I extremely disagree with charged bolts/power shot being buffed as you describe due to the fact I use that ability for my main source of damage. I feel that the class would be way OP as an instacast.

-if you do not understand why- supercharged cells can give you free casting powershots/ charged bolts. free CB/PS + no castime= WAY OP

 

Another thing I wish was in the game was after dying have all cooldowns reset. Honestly if you can explain to me why they don't reset after death please do.

 

Here is a link to an older post I have about the hybrid build I currently use. Maybe it will help you.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=164952

[Plaxy]

Dont think the Charged up would be as OP as for that purpose as it will require you to weave in a rapidshots to proc the buff that allows you to use your Blast once as an insta cast you would not be able repeatedly free cast Power shot/Charged Bolt, even with Supercharged Gas you would Get maybe 3 cast in at 10 seconds time frame. and The Healing spec doing that would still be alot better off with Repeated 1.3 second spams of free PS/CB

[RedlionV]

You almost never have to use rapid shots to get to get the supercharge, just us rapid scan which give 6 charges. Learn to play as a team even in pugs, heal till your charge is full then go offensive and take out targets left and right. As soon as you lose the charge go back to healing an so on. If you get jumped by a few guys shield up and heal yourself until you get supercharge then start taking them out one at a time. I have easily held off attacks of 4 or 5 people focusing just me. Now if they rotate CC not much anyone could do against that so don't try and use that as an argument.

 

You do bring up a point i would like to experiment. I have not kept track of how many shots i can pull off with supercharge powershots so I will check that out, but think of it this way. I currently do around 2-4k per shot at 1.2 castime, and thats not with top gear. If you were able to fire free cost instacast powershots you wouldn't have to worry so much about alacrity and therefor start stacking more crit or power. Which would lead to even more damage. It would start to add up and then get nerfed superfast.

[Phrase]

I've been thinking about replacing one mercs most useless talents no one picks up with any seriousness Gyroscopic Alighnments and replacing it with an actuall mobilizer someting like Rapid shots and Unload sport a chance to Proc Charged Up ((Charged up, Power Shot activation reduced by 100% on its next Use.))

 

 

Actually you could add a cd reduction for Power Surge (that's the same as Kolto and TSO) to Automated Defenses and get pretty near the same effect you're asking for w/o tying the cd reduction and instant cast to specific abilities.