Sorcerer feeling way gimp in pvp?

[TwitchWINs]

That sums it up pretty well for me and i didn't even need to type two paragraphs!

It does make quite a good bit of sense that you would switch to a mara tho.../clap for your effort and skill with this game.

Edited June 17, 2012 by TwitchWINs

[GrimmjowJa]

Why must you insist on writing so much just to troll...now i had to go and read all that after knowing from the first sentence you have no idea how to play your class. I am not trying to be rude but i have been hearing this since 1.2 hit, i have played on 2 servers, (Wound in the Force) and now (The Bastion) all of which i have played a sorcerer. When i started i thought maybe my whole server was just to incompetent to counter a sorcerer but after having played on 2 servers now and having over 15k kills on my sorcerer, I can now confirm the problem lies between the keyboard and the chair. With this being said, Just pay more attention to players CD's, movement, awareness, positioning as well as your teammates.

 

1.Duel! Duel! and DUEL some more! Find what you think is a "Good" player and ask him to have some friendly duels out on Tatooine.(Classes you struggle with in pvp)

 

2. Don't be afraid to ask him/her his Offensive and Defensive ability's(CD lengths) what their tooltip icon looks like on the debuff/buff bar(so you can identify when and when not to use certain ability's)

 

.3 Try out new strats(Strategies) when dueling or fighting in war-zones it is important you try everything to find which works best in all cases and scenarios, Even if something works perfectly on one player that does not mean it will work on every player in every situation.

 

QUICK TIPS:

.1 When running into a fight look at the positioning of teammates and enemies(Situational awareness).

.2 Purge is your friend, you can cleanse other sorc/sage dots,Whirlwind/Force Lift every few seconds.

.3 Keybind EVERYTHING! and become comfortable with those binds.

.4 Communicate with your teammates(vent,skype,TS,mumble...ect) "Pull me when that warrior/knight charges me" >"Stun him, if he trinkets i have a full whirlwind for him!" >"I have the next interrupt on X healer" just some examples.

.5 It is almost ALWAYS more effective to save your pull untill a warrior/knight has used his charge.

 

All this being said if you can not do (3-4) on this list then you have no place in competitive pvp/saying sorcerer's are in such a bad state in pvp and you should probably stick to the popular Facebook game FarmVille as picking super berries is your forte.

 

This was not meant to be rude in any way, I am sorry if it offended you but it is the truth Sorc/Sage is by far not the strongest in pvp but by no means should your characters be tossed to the sidelines because you think them so unfit for competitive pvp.

 

I am willing to help if you would just listen. Cheers!

 

Sorry man, I am not trying to be rude but 15k kills means nothing. It just says you have a lot of time to play and that is all. As to your statement that I don't know how to play my class, I can tell you that perhaps you have just a good team or your opponents on the server lack skill. I watched some of your videos and truly, on my server no one would ever allow a sorc to run so freely around during WZ. You are claiming that you are the best and intend to teach everyone how to play the class, well, do not overestimate yourself . We will see how you fare in ranked WZ. As for your suggestions to play other games sorry man, I played numerous MMO and was healer N3 on my server in Warhammer Online as an Archmage and my Spiritmaster in Aion is one of the most powerful and most hated ones by the opponents. So I can judge what a good or bad class is in competitive PvP. And sorry man, yes indeed, I can choose what game to play:) and it depends on a quaity of the game. To me balance is a very important part of the game. And please, do not behave as a mentor for I am not your student, it just shows your arrogance. I am also sorry to say that your opinion and advices hold no value to me because I respect only deeds and not unsupported claims to be the best sorc ever in SWTOR. Sorry if that offended you, but this is the bitter truth. So I wish you good luck in ranked WZ, maybe you will prove me wrong.

 

To make it clear I never claimed that Sorc is a weakest class, but it is definetely become one of the weakest, so if you value your team it is better to reroll from DPS sorc. Maybe 1.3 will bring some changes with relics and adrenals nerf, or better to say destruction of active relic skills. We will see.

And yes, I do think that Sorcerer needs a boost, because I want to see multiple classes on battlefield and not only Marauders/Sentinels, Assasins/Shadows and Powertech (Pyro). Because I am tired of these 3 classes.

 

As for your 3-4 points well, if you have a good team and it constantly protects you, you can play any class after nearly any nerf, it does not matter if the other teammembers are playing good classes.

 

We had the same situation in Warhammer Online. I was an Archmage healer. After some patches Archmages lost all of their defensive abilities. To make it more clear, AM had 2 knockbacks with 10 sec and 30 sec cooldowns and Bioware introduced 1 minute buff to all players that once you are hit by any knockback you are immune to it for 1 min. It was brilliant, was not it? If you would check this class, you will see that it is quite similar to Sorcerer with some small mechanic differences. And still we were winning most of WZ, but after that patch I had to be guarded all the time. Did it create additional trouble for my team - sure, did it create imbalance - sure, had I to reroll into Warpriest - no, but only because AM was the only healer class with instant ressurection and the best party healer. DPS Sorc does not hold such values unfortunately.

 

My claim that a dps Sorc today creates more troubles than benefits for the team remains the same. A good powertech in pyro mode will outperform any lighting Sorc as well as any good Assassin and these classes are more valuable for team today than sorcs. Any good teamplayer understands it and you, sorry have to say it, seem just to care about yourself.

 

Just to finish this discussion, imho sorc needs a boost in DPS about 5-6% and some burst damage or at least some skills should not be interrupted, an increased survivability will not help. Imho this will make Sorcerer again a valuable asset at least.

Edited June 18, 2012 by GrimmjowJa

[Psythos]

It is fact that they don't compare to most classes and feel like a support class. After playing other advanced classes it becomes painfully obvious. Even BioWare knows this. They have nerfed random abilities with sorc's in every major patch since release to the point where this class is basically shadow of what it was at launch.It is broken. If it is intended for this class to be support then they need to bring all of the other classes down to this broken level and turn them all into support.

[TwitchWINs]

While I can agree with some of the statements above, corruption is the worst solo healing spec for an AC, As for madness I can not say the same.

[dcgregorya]

Yes I know all of the others are going to add their 2 cents in about no we are not but I don't know about the rest of you sorcerers but I myself am feeling way gimp and squishy since 1.2.

Yes we have a knockback that can root...whoop de do. it knockbacks a whole 8 meters...other knockbacks are way further. an assassin or whatever can grip us right back to them. other classes can strangle, stun knock us back leap to us from 65 meters. we wear toilet paper for armor and can be 3 shotted easily. My operstive in far lower expertise armor has much better survivabilty without a knockback. Other classes seem way overpowered than us. They have strong burst damage where we take forever to kill someone. Almost all of our damage is casting and can be interrupted constantly. Give us a little love please.

 

8 meters is the perfect knockback because it is too short range to grip/pull/harpoon and yet outside of melee range. If you apply force slow afterwards you can kite without needing to use force speed. Operatives have significantly less survivability all around.

[GrimmjowJa]

Now maybe I am begining to understand Bioware. They will not buff Sorcs, instead they will step by step nerf all others. Tanksins were the first to follow (Same topics as on our forums), OP healers too. Significant reduction of PVP burst damage .

The main trend is to nerf everyone.

[Daellia]

8 meters is the perfect knockback because it is too short range to grip/pull/harpoon and yet outside of melee range. If you apply force slow afterwards you can kite without needing to use force speed. Operatives have significantly less survivability all around.

 

Hate to burst your bubble, but neither Force Pull nor Harpoon have a minimum range. On the Warrior side, Charge has a minimum range of 10 yards unless you're Annihilation, but Obliterate fills that deadzone nicely for Rage Juggernauts or Marauders. In addition, the overwhelming majority of non-melee-range abilities all 3 of these classes have are 10 yard ranges, so an 8-yard knockback won't save you from them (example: Force Choke).

[fungihoujo]

8 meters is the perfect knockback because it is too short range to grip/pull/harpoon and yet outside of melee range. If you apply force slow afterwards you can kite without needing to use force speed. Operatives have significantly less survivability all around.

 

How is 8m perfect, you make it sound like a KB is better if it KBs the target less- that's utter nonsense.

 

Good! I hope they use their grip, pull, harpoon, leap- I'd much rather have them have to waste one of their CDs- as I just wasted my own- rather than them having to walk for a quarter second to get back to me. That's an 8m KB- it buys you a second- and only really shines in huttball with ramps... but even so, the sniper and merc KBs are both considerably better (or the juggernaut KB which sends you flying two miles and stuns you to boot).

 

Good luck kiting someone while keeping them at 8m the whole time- I'm sure you manage to do that all the time... against mobs maybe.

[Sinaii]

37k kills and you still cannot see the potential of this class...

 

Or maybe I see it's limits compared to others dps classes.

 

That's not just fantasy, when I can do 600 dps others marauders or powertech can do easy 750and when i success to do 700+ they already are at 850 close to 900 dps in wz with more damage taken and less death taken....

 

That's it marauders or powertech out dps us with better survability, but again that's only when you play against or with good powetech or marauder ,not the randoms one.

But if you compare the random sorcerer to the random powertech or marauder, all of them are just low dps.

A player playing his classes correctly can often do twice or more the dpsthat the random player will do.

[Sinaii]

This concerns me...over 2k players on my server must be absolute garbage by this logic.

 

that's it you start to understand.

against garbage, if you play fine, you can make twice the dps they do.

but try with good powertech and marauder, the good one, playing well like you play the sorcerer.

 

the thing is with rated wz coming, good team will need good dps with good survability and for that sorcerer is very low compared to sin, pt or marau.

[Sinaii]

Now maybe I am begining to understand Bioware. They will not buff Sorcs, instead they will step by step nerf all others. Tanksins were the first to follow (Same topics as on our forums), OP healers too. Significant reduction of PVP burst damage .

The main trend is to nerf everyone.

 

Well i'm starting to think the same, they trully prefer to nerf everything instead of giving a buff when and where it's needed.

 

Before they have finished to nerf everything and hope for a good balance in the end, most of the player will have left the ship.

[Cuppcake]

Gimp in pvp? hehe.

 

On my marauder I can burst down any sorc/sage in 4 GcD's easy.

I can chuck my saber (not crit) for 3.2k on 1200 expertise sorcs/sages. Thats not even a melee move and it not really my hardest hitter either.

Class balance is at a ridiculous state right now.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Cuppcake

[TheLordMagnus]

Sorcerer is not gimp but also not OP its somewhere on the lower scale of the middle! but when played by a competent player its pushed just below the OP! which is very well balanced right now!

 

with the right set up only an ungarded one will die i love my rdps sorcc

 

zzzzap zap buz buz BOOM

hehehehehhehe:p

[Vladnar]

Full Battlemaster Gear & Madness gets you involved in the teeth of the fight but underperforming in damage and far too squisy yes for sure, and cc's negated or ending far too quick yes, but then the wz's were fully of only sorcs way back when and that was pretty naff to be honest.

 

Im looking forward to some improvements but hopefully not so drastic as players swoop back to their sorcs.

 

Bit more blast damage, so we can frontload a bit more...spose that could more go to lightning tree but a little something extra to go with the dots would be awesome for us.

 

Defense and maybe something extra to go with the shield, perhaps making it an immunity to damage allowing us to heal in that time? would be tricky as to how this equates to pve and how often we can put it on.

 

I shall be moving from the Sorc though, they are my chosen main from the start and i love nothing more than a good obstacle.

 

Good luck everyone and looking forward to 1.3

[Rotoroot]

Class balance is at a ridiculous state right now.

 

Im looking forward to some improvements but hopefully not so drastic as players swoop back to their sorcs.

 

I'm looking forward to winning the lottery, marrying a supermodel, and getting my own talk show.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Rotoroot

[Evil_Santa]

No - i top damage charts 90% of the time (unless it's a huttball) still own most players in 1v1's - with the exception of a few great PTs/Maras/Sins, and can nuke someone to dead in under 10 seconds.

 

2/21/18

[Cuppcake]

No - i top damage charts 90% of the time (unless it's a huttball) still own most players in 1v1's - with the exception of a few great PTs/Maras/Sins, and can nuke someone to dead in under 10 seconds.

 

2/21/18

 

Some1 else can nuke you "do dead" in 6.

[veyl]

Gimp in pvp? hehe.

On my marauder I can burst down any sorc/sage in 4 GcD's easy.

I can chuck my saber (not crit) for 3.2k on 1200 expertise sorcs/sages. Thats not even a melee move and it not really my hardest hitter either.

Class balance is at a ridiculous state right now.

 

Yeah, lets talk about Lightning Vs. Madness in PvP while we're at this ridiculous state.

I decided to spec lightning just for funsies (was actually trying it out in a raid later) and see just how hard Thundering Blast can hit something for in pvp.

 

My 1.9 second cast at 3 different targets = 2750-3350 crit average. (The highest I hit someone for was 4k and I'm pretty sure its because they took the 320k instead of the free recruit gear). This is with 1180 expertise and nearly 1600 wp.

On my Sentinel, I have 1440 strength, 1400 Expertise and my Merciless slash crits for 3k+ and a 3 second difference in when I can use it again between TB. (Actually, it's more like a 1.1 second difference since TB has a cast time.) Major difference: You can interrupt TB where MS is instant.

 

Lightning is so far behind in pvp and Madness is really your only choice if you want to be competitive. But the DPS of the Sorc is still leagues behind other DPS classes. I find it really funny when people bring up the damage that they do in warzones as well. OF COURSE YOU ARE. You are Deathfielding 3 people every 15 seconds over the course of 6+ minutes. That doesn't mean you're actually being EFFECTIVE with your damage because between those 15 seconds your probably kiting something or dying.

 

Bioware looks at those damage metrics and says we're fine: Fact is: We're behind in both Warzones and PVE raids in single target DPS by far.

Edited June 26, 2012 by veyl

[Jaigen]

Yeah, lets talk about Lightning Vs. Madness in PvP while we're at this ridiculous state.

I decided to spec lightning just for funsies (was actually trying it out in a raid later) and see just how hard Thundering Blast can hit something for in pvp.

 

My 1.9 second cast at 3 different targets = 2750-3350 crit average. (The highest I hit someone for was 4k and I'm pretty sure its because they took the 320k instead of the free recruit gear). This is with 1180 expertise and nearly 1600 wp.

On my Sentinel, I have 1440 strength, 1400 Expertise and my Merciless slash crits for 3k+ and a 3 second difference in when I can use it again between TB. (Actually, it's more like a 1.1 second difference since TB has a cast time.) Major difference: You can interrupt TB where MS is instant.

 

Lightning is so far behind in pvp and Madness is really your only choice if you want to be competitive. But the DPS of the Sorc is still leagues behind other DPS classes. I find it really funny when people bring up the damage that they do in warzones as well. OF COURSE YOU ARE. You are Deathfielding 3 people every 15 seconds over the course of 6+ minutes. That doesn't mean you're actually being EFFECTIVE with your damage because between those 15 seconds your probably kiting something or dying.

 

Bioware looks at those damage metrics and says we're fine: Fact is: We're behind in both Warzones and PVE raids in single target DPS by far.

 

So you judge the dps of a class on 1 ability. good job!

[MccM]

We are not behind in pve as lightning can do decent damage while not interrupted, jumped, knockedback etc. However these interrupts happens in pvp like every 3-4 seconds which makes lightning impossible against good player.

 

Yes i also **** many geared idiots everyday but killing idiots doesn't mean ****. I have no chance against good players even they are undergeared.

 

They made sorc pure pve and the people who saw this are already rerolled to mara and rapin sorcs with their recruit gear.

[veyl]

We are not behind in pve as lightning can do decent damage while not interrupted, jumped, knockedback etc. However these interrupts happens in pvp like every 3-4 seconds which makes lightning impossible against good player.

 

Yes i also **** many geared idiots everyday but killing idiots doesn't mean ****. I have no chance against good players even they are undergeared.

 

They made sorc pure pve and the people who saw this are already rerolled to mara and rapin sorcs with their recruit gear.

 

Sorcs are well behind in PVE dps compared to other DPS types. The logs I've seen (on these forums) are 300 dps behind. At least you can understand why Lightning is terrible in PvP at least, unlike this guy below.

 

So you judge the dps of a class on 1 ability. good job!

 

Clearly you don't understand a 31 point talent is supposed to be the staple of the class. They are supposed to be balanced across the board for all the DPS types. Thundering blast is a joke and all of the DPS abilities of Lightning leading up to that point are -weak- in PVP, where as a marauder/sentinel all of their DPS abilities are a strength. Maybe the rest of the conversation went straight over your head. (You know, the part where Madness is the only competitive PVP spec for a dps? ) And I was only using the marauder/sentinel as ONE example, the other DPS classes 31 point talents all heavily out weigh the lightning one. While we're at it, the 31 point for Madness is great not because of the damage, but because it snares something for 2 seconds giving you the space you need to get away.

 

From a team perspective, would you rather have a DPS that can instantly do 3k damage or be one that's casting in the background and hoping they don't get interrupted. People can play as lightning and do well, but like the first quoted poster said... If they're playing against any intelligent pvper in lesser gear, they will get stomped by that player. The "support" role of a sorc is vastly out valued by the pure DPS role of everything else.

[MccM]

Sorcs are well behind in PVE dps compared to other DPS types. The logs I've seen (on these forums) are 300 dps behind. At least you can understand why Lightning is terrible in PvP at least, unlike this guy below.

Didn't checked the forums pve discussions for a while but last time i checked marauders, snipers and sorcerors were the best dps on pve. Looks like nerfs made us useless in pve too!

 

Agree with the rest.

[devilofthedevil]

sorcerers are really weak in rated warzones enemy team just looks for them and gangs up on them like a free kill and they die before heals can even be applied and it makes the class not wanted cause they are always putting stress on healers and they can bairly do damage cause they die when ever they are spotted the only time you can really survive is when someone puts guard on you but as dps sorc they arnt going to waste a guard on a dps they will put it on a healer