Kracin Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 if we are looking for a way to seperate pve/pvp players without having pve dominate, use the system already in place. bolster... example everyone is level 50, so the stats that you have get placed into percentages, ie i have about 4300 combined stats (including expertise because it takes the spot of a stat possible) in current gear which is all but offhand BM. all of these are added together and put into percentages. which will then be placed into a percentage of stat distribution in the warzone. which means that evenif you have 2000 total stats, your stat difference in then translated into WZ stats based on a 5000 total stat distribution... without expertise added, everyone would have X of each stat, making it essentially equal but also able to be customized through gear just like it is. but more equal and not standardized on gear alone. and inreality, it would give people MORE customization possibilties for warzones where people would want to use a random set of gear with different stat bonuses in small and large amounts to achieve a better distribution. just my thoughts. only way i think this could possibly fix a lot of the problems with pvp, ttk, healing etc etc.. without completely removing some things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiQuiDMDH Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I think you mean expertise, not resolve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse- Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Because if you don't have expertise, either you've got superiority caused by wearing PvE raiding gear, or you've got PvE raiding gear trivialized because you can grind out equal gear in PvP. Progression should be there in PvE. It should level out very quickly in PvP though. Expertise allows them to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kracin Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 Because if you don't have expertise, either you've got superiority caused by wearing PvE raiding gear, or you've got PvE raiding gear trivialized because you can grind out equal gear in PvP. Progression should be there in PvE. It should level out very quickly in PvP though. Expertise allows them to do this. yes i meant expertise, ugh lol all these copycats are the same mostly lol. but, what you aren't getting here is that expertise is not needed to be a big gap maker as it is. we can have "equal" footing, without having pve raid gear dominate... you dont see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I feel a bit disappointed... I came in here fully ready to expose factual inaccuracies in a Resolve QQ thread but instead I find a thread about Expertise On topic, Expertise (or any type of PvP stat) is a band-aid fix to a deep problem with MMO PvP. You see, RPGs are not compatible with PvP since the two focus on completely opposite gaming systems. RPGs are all about removing the player's impact and focusing on building the character. PvP is all about removing the character's impact and focusing on the player's skill. In order to bridge this gap you have two options: 1. Remove all character traits (gear, class, abilities, etc.) from PvP 2. Implement a modified PvE system and call it PvP Most developers choose option 2 since it allows gear grinding which helps them hold onto subscriptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nToxiK Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 yes i meant expertise, ugh lol all these copycats are the same mostly lol. but, what you aren't getting here is that expertise is not needed to be a big gap maker as it is. we can have "equal" footing, without having pve raid gear dominate... you dont see? I don't think you're getting it. You need Expertise to separate PvP gear from PvE gear. If you ever played vanilla WoW, you would know why this is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse- Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 yes i meant expertise, ugh lol all these copycats are the same mostly lol. but, what you aren't getting here is that expertise is not needed to be a big gap maker as it is. we can have "equal" footing, without having pve raid gear dominate... you dont see? I'm not the one with my eyes closed. Not having expertise and not having raid gear superior means raid gear is trivialized by PvP gear in PvE due to the ease of acquisition, with the bonus side effect of forcing PvErs to PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kracin Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 I don't think you're getting it. You need Expertise to separate PvP gear from PvE gear. If you ever played vanilla WoW, you would know why this is necessary. please READREADREAD the original post where i state about using percentages of stat bonuses as opposed to actual gear bonuses.. READ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kracin Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 (edited) I'm not the one with my eyes closed. Not having expertise and not having raid gear superior means raid gear is trivialized by PvP gear in PvE due to the ease of acquisition, with the bonus side effect of forcing PvErs to PvP. ok you too please read... by essentially making it so your stat bolster in pvp at 50 is determined by your stat spread and everyone is given equal amount of stats to spread out by percentage that you set on yourself with whatever gear you have on, gives everyone a level playing field while still allowing customizability through wanting more endurance or more willpower etc etc. i in no way said use only pve gear and then the stats on that gear is what you have.. what are you people reading? i'm talking about Weighted average on stats. even if you join with full rakata. it would only give you 5000 to spread between stats based on the % you currently have in each of your total.. in this sense, raid gear can be used but will not dominate. and even level 20 gear can be used, but will not dominate.. it just depends on how you want to spread your own stats.. this removes the problem of expertise gaps, and the problem of using pvp gear in pve it is essentially what people wanted... a way to wear any gear they want, customize it. and not be dominated for using whatever they want just because a guy has more expertise Edited April 27, 2012 by Kracin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse- Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 ok you too please read... by essentially making it so your stat bolster in pvp at 50 is determined by your stat spread and everyone is given equal amount of stats to spread out by percentage that you set on yourself with whatever gear you have on, gives everyone a level playing field while still allowing customizability through wanting more endurance or more willpower etc etc. i in no way said use only pve gear and then the stats on that gear is what you have.. what are you people reading? i'm talking about Weighted average on stats. even if you join with full rakata. it would only give you 5000 to spread between stats based on the % you currently have in each of your total.. in this sense, raid gear can be used but will not dominate. and even level 20 gear can be used, but will not dominate.. it just depends on how you want to spread your own stats.. this removes the problem of expertise gaps, and the problem of using pvp gear in pve it is essentially what people wanted... a way to wear any gear they want, customize it. and not be dominated for using whatever they want just because a guy has more expertise I did read it. It's not a solution for TOR, because for it to be a solution to TOR all gear tiers would need a same net points total. The system you're suggesting would actually discourage use of high level gear, because the higher hard stat : ratings ratio would cost you dearly when balanced to a flat number that all players adhere to. And no, separating hard stats from ratings for this bolster isn't a solution either. Additionally, your bolster is unrelated to the current bolster as the current bolster is a flat multiplier where a solid purples level 10 is superior statistically to a solid greens level 49. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveandDieinLA Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 (edited) This thread made me lol two times. "bioware... why do we have resolve?" The title itself made me laugh, so I clicked on the thread. Thread is about expertise. Edited April 27, 2012 by LiveandDieinLA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kracin Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 I did read it. It's not a solution for TOR, because for it to be a solution to TOR all gear tiers would need a same net points total. The system you're suggesting would actually discourage use of high level gear, because the higher hard stat : ratings ratio would cost you dearly when balanced to a flat number that all players adhere to. And no, separating hard stats from ratings for this bolster isn't a solution either. Additionally, your bolster is unrelated to the current bolster as the current bolster is a flat multiplier where a solid purples level 10 is superior statistically to a solid greens level 49. again you ARENT reading. wz gives EVERYONE 5000 points, spread at a percentage of what your percentages are spread at. gear tiers and the number of stats they give is irrelevent. even if your gear only gave 2000, and someone else's gave 6000, you would both be on equal ground based on how that is spread out.. it is up the player to decide where they want those stats to go by customizing it however they want... and if that really is the case that you are worried about people wearing level 10 gear because its cheaper, then who cares? should it really be about who spends more money and time on something to decide who wins in a game of skill and teamwork? and a purple 10 being superior to a 49 green stat wise is flat out ridiculous, as it is based on what you want. no piece of gear is superior to another in a sense that your cumulative total is calculated out. do you want me to spell it out for you? because you are stuck on 1 piece of gear being better than another when in reality, it matters as a whole based on what stats you want to have precedence over others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kracin Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 I did read it. It's not a solution for TOR, because for it to be a solution to TOR all gear tiers would need a same net points total. The system you're suggesting would actually discourage use of high level gear, because the higher hard stat : ratings ratio would cost you dearly when balanced to a flat number that all players adhere to. And no, separating hard stats from ratings for this bolster isn't a solution either. Additionally, your bolster is unrelated to the current bolster as the current bolster is a flat multiplier where a solid purples level 10 is superior statistically to a solid greens level 49. not sure if you understand this, but the fact that you can pick and choose which stats you want to have precedence over others is a big + to pvp as opposed to being forced to use things with stats you don't want. everyone is able to be on the same level in a sense, better than grinding out pvp gear while being destroyed every 2 seconds in the wz's they are in. if someone chooses to use a enhancement that has purely crit and surge as opposed to using one with 3 stats, that is on them. its just a matter of balancing and putting in check so that it only applies when all slots are filled, things like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LancelotOC Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 You know back in the 90's those white parties where everyone wore white were all the rave in Hollywood. Did you notice the resolve bars are WHITE? Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kracin Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 You know back in the 90's those white parties where everyone wore white were all the rave in Hollywood. Did you notice the resolve bars are WHITE? Just saying. i did space my thread title. yikes.. wish a mod would change it, but we know they dont touch threads unless they violate TOS, or biowares monetary income Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nToxiK Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 (edited) MMO's are all about getting new gear, whether that is PvE or PvP. Removing the pvp gear upgrades would remove most incentives for PvP'ing at all. Edited April 27, 2012 by nToxiK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashbrother Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 MMO's are all about getting new gear, whether that is PvE or PvP. Removing the pvp gear upgrades would remove most incentives for PvP'ing at all. This. The majority of players play RPGs because of the gear progression. The majority of players prefer to have some kind of "carrot" to work towards. What BW needs to do with expertise is make it a flat amount across all pvp gear. Say something like 20% more dam done and less dam taken, 15% more healing. The only thing higher tiers of pvp gear would improve is the stats. So essentially recruit, battlemaster, and war hero will have the same expertise bonus but different str, willpower, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kracin Posted April 27, 2012 Author Share Posted April 27, 2012 carrots are good. but in a competative PVP game, carrots should not be giving deliberate advantages over new players who may be skilled, but must "work" their way up to the point the guy who sat there for hours a day is at, just to keep from getting hit for 25% more by him at all times. organized pvp is supposed to be a skill/teamwork game, and the skill/teamwork is trumped by gear is a lot of aspects. i can see a lot of gear being released if this kind of system goes in place. but the gear can definately be more viable if they make it so ANY gear is useable, as opposed to only certain sets of gear that can be then augments to give advantages over people without the money or crafter to get that augmented gear with extra stats. i made a new thread btw with the correct title..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notannos Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 Greetings Everyone, Since the OP has decided to recreate this thread, we'll be closing this one. To offer feedback and discussion on this topic regarding expertise please use the following thread: Thread remake; Bioware why do we have EXPERTISE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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