Is Concealment Still Viable?

[Pinkspawn]

Is it for leveling?

 

Any answer is appreciated.

[Flyingcookie]

For leveling yes but endgame better be healer because every other melee dd deals more dmg + gapcloser

 

i deal more damage with my crapequipped dd juggernaut then my full t3 operative

Edited April 27, 2012 by Flyingcookie

[KyoMamoru]

For leveling yes but endgame better be healer because every other melee dd deals more dmg + gapcloser

 

i deal more damage with my crapequipped dd juggernaut then my full t3 operative

 

This is untrue. I once believed that Concealment was as bad as everyone said, but then I redid my rotation and so forth. Now I'm doing 1418 dps without Adrenals or Relics, and that's not counting Hidden Strike during that rotation on the dummy. With two changes to my gear, I'll be at 1500 dps. At a range, I can dps 800-900 dps without lowering my energy pool to far. So while a Marauder still can output 1650 or so, there are mechanics that completely halt their DPS while I'm able to continue to attack.

[Ketsuekifujo]

This is untrue. I once believed that Concealment was as bad as everyone said, but then I redid my rotation and so forth. Now I'm doing 1418 dps without Adrenals or Relics, and that's not counting Hidden Strike during that rotation on the dummy. With two changes to my gear, I'll be at 1500 dps. At a range, I can dps 800-900 dps without lowering my energy pool to far. So while a Marauder still can output 1650 or so, there are mechanics that completely halt their DPS while I'm able to continue to attack.

 

I'm interested in what your moddfied rotation is.... can you post it?

[KyoMamoru]

A bit of a text dump, but here's all the information I've posted in another thread. It's actually funny, since in the thread you can see my DPS progress from complaining about being ~1220, to 1300, and then finally to 1418. Now I have hopes to break 1500. ;D

 

I'm bumping this because I just broke a barrier I didn't think I'd be able to do so soon on my Operative. After a lot of thought on my rotation/gear, I've managed to barely hit 1401 dps. I am still leaving DPS on the table, since I cannot break combat to Hidden Strike three during a five minute parse against the dummy. It's very possible that I'm actually capable of hitting 1450.

 

Image: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3843382/stuff/Dpskeitsu1401.jpg

Log: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3843382/stuff/Dpslog3.txt

Parse: http://www.fryingtime.com/?filename=Dpslog3.txt

 

What does this extra thought on your rotation and gear involve?

Mostly, it was about how far I was willing to push my energy with the character, and how I was speccing my Lethality. Before I was doing 2 points in Microbes, but now I'm splitting it with one in the increased duration, and one in the Microbes. This allows for me to have more energy over the duration and more attacks, which adds up over time. 289 seconds is 20 applications of Poison Dart, but with the talent it's 16. This saves me 80 energy, and 4 global cool downs for other attacks. The other thought was that I didn't realize how great Orbital Strike is, as long as I'm applying dots before the cast time. OS takes two global cooldowns to complete, and so as long as I'm doing Back Stab [Acid Blade] + Poison Dart before casting, during a period where my shiv is on Cool down, it works out for a dramatic increase in Dps. OS produces 3 hits that average at 2482 damage. That's greater than anything I can put out at two global cool downs with Backstab on cool down.

 

I'm actually about to change my set bonus to two pieces of Field Tech, to allow me to have an extra hit of OS for each cast. Assuming the exact same dps numbers as my latest parse, this would provide an additional 12,410 damage, or yield 1,459.92 dps. This isn't including the loss of dps from 3 hidden strikes + acid blades, which should yield 12000 extra damage [not counting the armor penetration they'd have], or 1501 dps. I'm missing ~80 cunning due to gear not being full Rakata [bM Implants, Bm Rifle, and my Chest isn't Rakata.] I'm going to work hard this weekend to improve my gear more.

 

While I'm happy that you broke that barrier (and putting your log into fryingtime you hit 1412, so not sure which is more accurate), I notice that you did it by opening with Orbital strike before combat begins and having Stim Boost already in effect (both of which /might/ happen but probably won't, considering that tanks rarely ask the operative if she's all ready to go). Do you think that was the primary contributor to your increased dps?

 

Training dummies are perfect world situations, unfortunately. However, this is also what we're judging other classes [Marauders mostly] off as well. In PVE, there are usually enough trash mobs up [bar Tenders <3] that can provide me with Stim Boost. My tank is also always waiting for the Sniper and myself to prepare our Orbital Strikes before he initiates combat, since he knows it helps with enrage timers, and allows us to all get into a better position. So though I'm getting the OS and perfect position from the dummy at all times before combat starts, I'm also losing out on Hidden Strike + Acid Blade twice within the first 10 seconds, and then once every two minutes to come. The good news is, the damage was sustainable over the course of five minutes. Also, on the positional note, I find that with the added 3 seconds to Back Stab, it's easier for me to get towards the '***' of an opponent since I'm doing less of them a fight.

 

So what priority order are you working at, if you've changed things up? I notice that you didn't use any explosive probes. Did that help? Also, your last parse picture didn't display your tech stats; did you move anything from your second?

Shiv [Try to keep TA up at all times]-> [Acid Blade] Back Stab -> Poison Dart -> Orbital Strike -> Rifle Shot - > Shiv -> Lacerate, etc.

 

I blow through as much energy as I can at the start of the fight, and pop Adrenaline Probe as soon as I dip to 20 energy, where I'll do a Rifle Shot or two. I also continue to push my energy curve during the next two minutes to where by the time Adrenaline Probe comes around, I'm back at 20 energy.

 

I save Explosive Probe for situations where I am forced to be a ranged DPS, so it is not part of my normal rotation. I find it is much better served during periods where I'm forced by mechanics to be at a range from the boss. I know I could probably get a few more points of DPS for using it, but I don't want to push my rotation out of the real world. Furthermore, it isn't supported by any talents that we have, which makes the energy cost a high for a rotation ability.

 

My Tech damage is currently at 812.8, the parse before that was at 804.2.

Edited April 27, 2012 by KyoMamoru

[Flyingcookie]

This is untrue.

 

sadly i is true

 

while in a perfect situation it might be even, in a real situation it isn't.

for example 2nd boss EV while other melees can force charge after the jump the boss did we have to run and so on.

It's a HUGE dps loss overall not to add that we have to be behind the target what also means dps loss in certain situations(4th boss ev anyone?)so in the end your Damage will always be lower than a Jugger/marauder/powertech(ranged attacks while they can move(missile at least)/assasins(forcespeed) dd's

Edited April 27, 2012 by Flyingcookie

[KyoMamoru]

Gharj

-----

- Outside of two boss fights in operations [Council, and Annihilator] it is incredibly easy to back stab the bosses. The great news is those bosses are pathetically easy regardless.

- A little known fact is that an Operative in Crouch against Gharj will NOT get knocked back during the AOE. You can do all of your rotations in Crouch. Due to this, I'm the only melee DPS that is -never- knocked away during the fight.

- Due to the 'stop DPS moments' of the fight, I'm able to stress my energy reserves faster, which results in greater levels of DPS. A Marauder isn't able to do this, since their damage is on a steady curve.

 

Things other Melee can't do during transitions:

- I dot him before retreating with Acid Blade and Poison Dart.

- I'm able to strafe/retreat while still doing blaster shots / crouch to Explosive Probe.

- I Orbital Strike where he'll jump to, which produces a vast spike in DPS that no other melee class can duplicate.

- Due to the transitions, it allows easier access to the spike DPS of Hidden Strike from Cloaking Screen.

 

So yea, I'll be honest. It sounds like you don't know the strengths of Operatives. Keep saying the class is broken and horrible, and I'll keep validating the class by pushing the limits of what it can do with DPS. I will break the 1500 DPS barrier without Adrenals/Relics, while everyone else is complaining that they can't break 1250 on the same dummy. The Concealment Operative is the hardest to utilize DPS class in the game at the moment.

 

I had gotten pretty down the class too, and I was making jabs at my friend that made a Marauder. I joked about how he was playing the best class, and how he was going to be nerfed. I lamented about all the flaws my class had, and how great his was. He then reminded me that I sounded like a whiny *****, and that I should apply myself to this game if I cared about my character. A week and a half later, my dps is up 16%.

Edited April 27, 2012 by KyoMamoru

[KalTorrak]

A bit of a text dump, but here's all the information I've posted in another thread. It's actually funny, since in the thread you can see my DPS progress from complaining about being ~1220, to 1300, and then finally to 1418. Now I have hopes to break 1500. ;D

 

The whole point of this is it means just **** in PvP, you cant do a standard rotation with every single PvP situation but every other melee has the advantage over us cause our energy is **** unless you do every SO carefully where every other class can mash buttons and win, its just so unbalanced its not funny.

 

Not to mention utility other classes have, gap closes, survivability, dps just with a few ability's, it smashes ours, "Unless we have a certain rotation" but guess what, they still do more with their perfect rotation

 

PS I'm nothing but a PvP'er so this is fully viewed at pure PVP we are the most useless class on the field unless we spec healer, we are cannon fodder or a simple healer interrupt with our stuns so a real dps can take them down.

[Bazzoong]

^^ So let´s talk pvp (though this thread basically is a pve thread since it concerns the concept of dps which simply does not apply for pvp).

 

I will be as polite as I can be.

 

If "button mashers" can beat you then there is something seriously wrong about how YOU play your agent.

 

Now since the problem of yours seems to be rather "huge", I will give you some basic info:

 

3/31/7 is a garbage spec for pvp, better alternatives have been posted on this forum by multiple posters, use the search function.

 

Expertise is the "king stat" for pvp now get it. 1k is absolute minimum.

 

Gameplay tips and hints are available in this forum, use the search function.

 

 

This class still is very strong in small group fights and is still the arguably 2nd best 1v1 class.

 

The problem you have is your lack of understanding, crying on the forum will not help you at all. Classes are like a complex dynamic puzzle go and solve the agent puzzle. If you come to the conclusion you can not solve it, play another class, there are easier puzzles available in this game.

 

I detest the notion that my favorite class should be dumped down to an easier level.

 

(edit) for maximum clarity: If you have energy issues you are doing it wrong, and not just slightly wrong but dismally wrong.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Bazzoong

[KyoMamoru]

Thanks Bazz, I don't have time to type a response, aside from the snarky ,'"He asked about PVE, not PVP.'" In PVP, a Concealment Operative played poorly will never top the damage chart, since they spend 90% of the battle in cloak, and the moment a battle gets them stuck without their hidden strike, they immediately cower. You lose out on so much AOE and functionality when you rely on one move.

[manlysnowball]

Just my 2c.

 

I'm by no means a hardcore PvE'er but if I pay attention I can hold dps at about 1100 on any given boss, this includes having to move/reposition etc.

 

Haven't tested on a dummy in awhile.

 

I occasionally get into energy issues if I'm not careful.

 

Conc. Ops seem like hardmore Swtor atm, both PvE and PvP.