Shocked to be thinking of returning to my old Mmo

[Ngaemond]

Preface: Played Lotro (Lord of the Rings Online) for almost 4 years. In one of top raiding kinships. So been there done that and got the new chestpiece. One day in November was surprised to realize I was not enjoying the game any more. Main issue = sick to death of the near constant grinding.

 

Took Swtor for a spin. Swtor seemed superior in almost every way. Nearly every aspect of Lotro that was starting to annoy me - was better in Swtor.

 

This week was again surprised to realize that the Swtor honeymoon is over and disillusionment is setting in. And have actually thought about going back to Lotro. Why?

 

1) Starting to realize Swtor also has onerous grinds - in different parts of the game. In Lotro a lot of grinding is to improve (a) abilities and stats and (b) your Legendary Items. In Swtor the heavy grinding centers around gear for endgame. My very fine guild in Swtor suggested running dailies to get the Rakata implants/earpieces. Perfectly reasonable suggestions. Been working on that. But dang it takes how many hours? like 10-20? to get a single item? And then you need two or three more?

 

2) That ignores weapons and armor. I completely understand that one needs better/best gear for endgame. Am beginning to find "what do I need?" and "what do I need to do to get it in order to do raids?" in Swtor a bit much. First you grind to get your orange set to 126. No problem. Builds character. Then you run FPs. At least an hour with a good group. To get various crystals/commendations that apply to different sets some of which you want to skip because they're worse than crafted or 126 orange. Am told at least 3 pieces Columni to come on raids. Darth Malgus drops a Columni piece for the one class that didn't come. Sunday night shot with not much to show for it.

 

3) Crafting is interesting. Overall a fine system. But again it seems to break down toward endgame. Surprisingly difficult to come by mats needed for purple 49-50 pieces. An awful lot of luck involved in whether companion missions and reverse engineering get what you need. Woot! Finally got a purple schematic for that earpiece! Oops - its extra stats useless to your class. Start again. Most top crafted gear is Bind on Equip so you can only help the character that makes it.

 

Before I make a few comparisons and suggestions let me emphasize I enjoy Swtor and think they've done a great job - especially compared to the problems a lot of games have during their first few months after launch. Comparing Swtor to other Mmo's is questionable, but it goes both ways, right? If Swtor is better than Mmo x in some respect then -? And to be fair some of the aspects of Lotro that seem better at this point were much worse one or two years ago before Turbine made some important changes and improvements.

 

1b) In Lotro there *is* grinding involved including for endgame gear/stats. But in Swtor so many hours for a single earpiece/implant? I suggest reducing the commendations needed. Yes players should put in time and effort for reward. Seems excessive now.

 

2b) One *could* run endgame content in Lotro with good but not best gear - it was just more difficult. Notable exception = the infamous Radiance mechanic that Lotro finally eliminated last year. My critique of Swtor on this point might be off - should players with 126 armor be able to run HM Ops it's just more difficult? Perhaps not. But one recent improvement in Lotro was streamlining the token system. Perhaps instead of a single Columni drop at the end of a HM FP - which might be useless to the group - *everyone* gets a decent amount of Columni commendations. Everyone who puts in the time and effort gets *something* that leads to a reward. Perhaps even combine the different types of commendations so that some crystals/commendations aren't basically useless.

 

3b) The randomness of the crafting system. Make it easier to obtain - with granted some time/effort - to get the mats needed? Eliminate some of the randomness of reverse engineering/schematics? In Lotro if you put in the time/effort you *would* get - not maybe get - certain recipes (schematics) and necessary mats. Lotro helped keep this under control with cooldowns - so you could only make that top piece of gear say once/week. Just some thoughts.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Ngaemond
reduce verbage

[OmegaMayhem]

I will wait for the TLDR version... although I probably still won't read it because just scanning I saw a lot of "Lotro" scattered about.

[Shaidown]

I will wait for the TLDR version... although I probably still won't read it because just scanning I saw a lot of "Lotro" scattered about.

 

To sum up for the OP.

 

he played LOTRO, grinding, got bored

 

now plays SWTOR, different grinding, is bored

 

QQ

[Zsavooz]

Preface: Played Lotro (Lord of the Rings Online) for almost 4 years. In one of top raiding kinships. So been there done that and got the new chestpiece. One day in November was surprised to realize I was not enjoying the game any more. Main issue = sick to death of the near constant grinding.

 

Took Swtor for a spin. Swtor seemed superior in almost every way. Nearly every aspect of Lotro that was starting to annoy me - was better in Swtor.

 

This week was again surprised to realize that the Swtor honeymoon is over and disillusionment is setting in. And have actually thought about going back to Lotro. Why?

 

1) Starting to realize Swtor also has onerous grinds - in different parts of the game. In Lotro a lot of grinding is to improve (a) abilities and stats and (b) your Legendary Items. In Swtor the heavy grinding centers around gear for endgame. My very fine guild in Swtor suggested running dailies to get the Rakata implants/earpieces. Perfectly reasonable suggestions. Been working on that. But dang it takes how many hours? like 10-20? to get a single item? And then you need two or three more?

 

2) That ignores weapons and armor. I completely understand that one needs better/best gear for endgame. Am beginning to find "what do I need?" and "what do I need to do to get it in order to do raids?" in Swtor a bit much. First you grind to get your orange set to 126. No problem. Builds character. Then you run FPs. At least an hour with a good group. To get various crystals/commendations that apply to different sets some of which you want to skip because they're worse than crafted or 126 orange. Am told at least 3 pieces Columni to come on raids. Darth Malgus drops a Columni piece for the one class that didn't come. Sunday night shot with not much to show for it.

 

3) Crafting is interesting. Overall a fine system. But again it seems to break down toward endgame. Surprisingly difficult to come by mats needed for purple 49-50 pieces. An awful lot of luck involved in whether companion missions and reverse engineering get what you need. Woot! Finally got a purple schematic for that earpiece! Oops - its extra stats useless to your class. Start again. Most top crafted gear is Bind on Equip so you can only help the character that makes it.

 

Before I make a few comparisons and suggestions let me emphasize I enjoy Swtor and think they've done a great job - especially compared to the problems a lot of games have during their first few months after launch. Comparing Swtor to other Mmo's is questionable, but it goes both ways, right? If Swtor is better than Mmo x in some respect then -? And to be fair some of the aspects of Lotro that seem better at this point were much worse one or two years ago before Turbine made some important changes and improvements.

 

1b) In Lotro there *is* grinding involved including for endgame gear/stats. But in Swtor so many hours for a single earpiece/implant? I suggest reducing the commendations needed. Yes players should put in time and effort for reward. Seems excessive now.

 

2b) One *could* run endgame content in Lotro with good but not best gear - it was just more difficult. Notable exception = the infamous Radiance mechanic that Lotro finally eliminated last year. My critique of Swtor on this point might be off - should players with 126 armor be able to run HM Ops it's just more difficult? Perhaps not. But one recent improvement in Lotro was streamlining the token system. Perhaps instead of a single Columni drop at the end of a HM FP - which might be useless to the group - *everyone* gets a decent amount of Columni commendations. Everyone who puts in the time and effort gets *something* that leads to a reward. Perhaps even combine the different types of commendations so that some crystals/commendations aren't basically useless.

 

3b) The randomness of the crafting system. Make it easier to obtain - with granted some time/effort - to get the mats needed? Eliminate some of the randomness of reverse engineering/schematics? In Lotro if you put in the time/effort you *would* get - not maybe get - certain recipes (schematics) and necessary mats. Lotro helped keep this under control with cooldowns - so you could only make that top piece of gear say once/week. Just some thoughts.

 

At first, I loved LOTRO, played with my son through Level 32 or so. I forget what they called it, the story quests? I did not like that nor the lack of real PvP, monster play was stupid. Why didn;t they simply have two factions, why!???

[Balrizangor]

To sum up for the OP.

 

he played LOTRO, grinding, got bored

 

now plays SWTOR, different grinding, is bored

 

QQ

 

thanks, saved me reading time ... =)

[Ngaemond]

@Omega - It didn't interest you and you didn't read it yet you took the time to reply. M'kay.

 

@Shaidown - Cute and arguably fair. Sounds like you're conceding my points. Do *you* have suggestions for how to improve some aspects of Swtor?

 

@Bal - See @Omega.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Ngaemond

[TheBBP]

So, why do people who clearly do not like what MMOs are about, play MMOs?

[Balrizangor]

So, why do people who clearly do not like what MMOs are about, play MMOs?

 

Some people are not happy unless they are miserable ...

 

Some people just like to be miserable so they can feel like a martyr with the whole world being out to get them ....

[Shaidown]

@Omega - It didn't interest you and you didn't read it yet you took the time to reply. M'kay.

 

@Shaidown - Cute and arguably fair. Sounds like you're conceding my points. Do *you* have suggestions for how to improve some aspects of Swtor?

 

Sounds like you just need to expand your thinking of what to do.

 

If you're 50 and all you think about is getting the gear, you're missing half the game.

 

An MMO, even when you are a heavy raider, is about the social aspect. As much as BW has made this game accessible for soloers, it's still social. Some of my best memories in MMOs are guildchat while Im questing AND times enjoyed with others, instances or raids etc.

[Sasheria]

I hate to break it to you. ALL MMO grinds. It is all matter on how it represent.

 

As for dailies, Rakata implants are the end-game top item. It suppose to be hard. I got my columni implant via Ops so I'm happy. (I'm too lazy to do daily heh)

 

the end-game for most of the MMO are grind base. Random chance of getting loot. Before 1.2, my guild was getting loot drop (columni and Rakata) for class we DIDN'T bring go fig. Now at least we are getting something for each run (at least most of us)

 

I haven't met an MMO where the end game doesn't have a grind. I do love SWTOR because the level up "grind" is amusing and fun. I am working on my 3rd level 50 and have all 8 characters slow (most are around 30s. with 2 50s)

[siegedeluxe]

Sounds like you just need to expand your thinking of what to do.

 

If you're 50 and all you think about is getting the gear, you're missing half the game.

 

An MMO, even when you are a heavy raider, is about the social aspect. As much as BW has made this game accessible for soloers, it's still social. Some of my best memories in MMOs are guildchat while Im questing AND times enjoyed with others, instances or raids etc.

 

The problem is that SWTOR is missing the social aspect, half the time I've been online leveling my toon the only thing you'll hear are the crickets .

[Ismercu]

I never understood people doing dailies. I always just get my pvp gear in a day then do Hm's and get a full set of columi in a week.

[Drudenfusz]

So, why do people who clearly do not like what MMOs are about, play MMOs?

Only because one isn't too happy with certain aspects, doesn't mean one don't like MMOs at all. I would like to see more MMOs going and try new ways: like the idea descriped here or what ArenaNet is going to do with GW2.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Drudenfusz

[Shaidown]

The problem is that SWTOR is missing the social aspect, half the time I've been online leveling my toon the only thing you'll hear are the crickets .

 

Dont you have a guild?

 

If you don't, get one

 

If you do, get a better one

[SpazCats]

An interesting post.

 

I too played LOTRO for a few years. I have not played since the last expansion came out (bought it, but never played, sigh). I just got burned out. I too was in a top raiding kin for a while. Had a lot of fun, met some great people. But it was time to move on.

 

Remember back when lvl 50 was the cap and the rift and helegrod were the end game raids? That was the BEST time I had. You could manage to get in a good raid group if you played your class well, and all you needed was the best crafted gear (which was pretty easy to make). If you were in a good guild, you'd easily find people more than willing to craft you that gear in exchange for some materials.

 

Then even LOTRO changed and went to that damn radiance. So people had to grind and grind and grind, just to even look at a raid. I understand they have since gotten rid of radiance, but it looks like it's still quite a grind there to get ready for raiding.

 

I miss the way it originally was in LOTRO. Instead of all this grinding just to be able to play in a raid.

 

I do wish there was far less grinding in SWTOR too. I never got bored with the original LOTRO, even though there was less grinding. On the contrary... logging in was actually fun back then. Oh back in the day, hehe

[Darkhosis]

LOTRO is a great game with years of polish. Why be ashamed? It's even f2p so I don't even see the dilema.

 

Go play LOTRO and see if it's as fun as you remember compared to when you play SWTOR. Ya know... Common sense and all.

[Forogorn]

I've played LotRO for 4 years as well, and I'm probably going to be called crazy or retarded for saying this, but I love grinding in every single MMORPG I play, although I actually try to pay attention to every single quest.

[TheBBP]

I've played LotRO for 4 years as well, and I'm probably going to be called crazy or retarded for saying this, but I love grinding in every single MMORPG I play, although I actually try to pay attention to every single quest.

 

The thing is that every MMO boils down to a grind. It is always a chase for gear, levels, titles or what have you, but all of it boils down to a grind whether it be solo or with a group/guild. I don't get why folks who can't stand the thought of a grind play MMOs.

[Darth_Gao_Gao]

i didn't read your post, but i assume it had to do with hobbits and stuff.

 

well, i hope that works out for you!

[Cerion]

I have a lifetime membership to LOTRO. Turbine essentially pays me to play it every month by giving me 500tp. I haven't logged in since Christmas.

 

I hate the Legendary Item grind which is beyond frustrating. Grind up your LI that you like, and oops, new expac makes the whole thing obsolete. At least with SWTOR, orange gear I can keep the look I like and improve it with level. Same effect as LI without the hassle.

 

LOTRO had a good idea with the story quests. Too bad I was stymied at every chapter with group-gated content. In SWTOR, my story quests are completely solo friendly, and I don't have to 'put the book down because someone has torn a chapter out of it' like in LOTRO.

 

In SWTOR, my character IS the hero, not some second fiddle hero to the Fellowship.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed LOTRO. But SWTOR has a number of improvements that make it a superior experience.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Cerion

[TheBBP]

I will say that LoTRO is one of the most immersive MMOs that I have ever played. It is pretty well done.

[Cerion]

Only because one isn't too happy with certain aspects. doesn't mean one don't like MMOs at all. I would like to see more MMOs goind and try new ways: like the idea descriped here or what ArenaNet is going to do with GW2.

 

I tried to follow the idea of 'horizontal' leveling suggested in your link, but it makes no sense. Can you name a game as an example of such a system?

[pauljc]

So, why do people who clearly do not like what MMOs are about, play MMOs?

 

For a lot of people this SWTOR is an MMO that happens to be a sequel to KOTOR. For another large group of people SWTOR is the sequel to KOTOR that happens to be an MMO.

 

For that second group, knowing that the continuation of the KOTOR story was out there waiting to be experienced but choosing not to was simply not an option. That, or wait until KOTOR 3, which will be coming out shortly after Warcraft 4. Thus, they - I'll be honest and say "we" - find ourselves as single player RPGers in an MMO world.

[Drudenfusz]

I tried to follow the idea of 'horizontal' leveling suggested in your link, but it makes no sense. Can you name a game as an example of such a system?

I think The Secret world is going into that direction (where you can have only a certain amount of active and passive abilities in use, but you can learn hundreds, but that game is not even out yet, not sure there is a game that does excaptly as taugrim proposes there).

[chrisftw]

we need GW2 to release already so people can move the hate train over to that game. people are already trolling the piss poor forum integration at arenanet. So the hate train and the troll wagon is already picking up speed slowly there.

 

after tomorrow 04/27 we should have a steady stream of hate geared at GW2. when people realize the game is just another version of GW1. hell its already recycling the GW1 engine just modified. let the good times roll.

Edited April 27, 2012 by chrisftw