Dark side Luke in RotJ movie?

[jarjarloves]

I didn't say he fell to the Dark Side in TESB. I said his path to the Dark Side started there, with the threat of his friends and revelation about his father. In the movies he doesn't fall, but he is on the path and only fully renounces it at the end of Jedi.

 

but remember Luke chose death over the darkside in Empire.

[Rhyltran]

but remember Luke chose death over the darkside in Empire.

 

Depends. As a Jedi in training he may have foreseen himself briefly clinging for his life at the bottom. We don't know for sure if he planned to die or truly thought he was going to die. Then he started calling out to Leia for help. Yes he rejected Vader's offer but he was still upset and distraught over the event. It was more the revelation that Vader was his father was too much to bare over anything else.

[Silvrus]

but remember Luke chose death over the darkside in Empire.

 

And? I said that was the start. Typically, you don't fall to the Dark Side overnight. It's little things that add up, and it's worse for a Jedi as they are more open to it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as the saying goes. Luke reacted with good intentions, but with disastrous results. That was Anakin's downfall too.

[jarjarloves]

And? I said that was the start. Typically, you don't fall to the Dark Side overnight. It's little things that add up, and it's worse for a Jedi as they are more open to it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as the saying goes. Luke reacted with good intentions, but with disastrous results. That was Anakin's downfall too.

 

ok so maybe you can explain to me how choosing to die instead of going to the darkside is the start of going to the dark side?

[Rhyltran]

ok so maybe you can explain to me how choosing to die instead of going to the darkside is the start of going to the dark side?

 

By the end of that scene hwas left conflicted. He didn't know how much of what he was told was true. How much of it was a lie. He was torn. No, he didn't accept Vader's offer. However, it was his choice to go to cloud city and avoid his training that put him into that predicament in the first place. It was that choice that put him on the path to nearly fall to the dark side.

[jarjarloves]

Depends. As a Jedi in training he may have foreseen himself briefly clinging for his life at the bottom. We don't know for sure if he planned to die or truly thought he was going to die. Then he started calling out to Leia for help. Yes he rejected Vader's offer but he was still upset and distraught over the event. It was more the revelation that Vader was his father was too much to bare over anything else.

wow now who's reaching???

 

We know he doesn't see that because in the scene we know he sees

 

1. A city in the clouds

 

2. Han and Leia

 

3. Han and Leia in pain

 

that is all. He doesn't even know if they die not even Yoda can see that.

 

This is also backed up by the official novelization.

 

as for your newer comment.

 

He chose not to join the Darkside. He directly rejected the darkside by choosing suicide. Chosing to die over going to the darkside is the exact oposite of going down to the dark side.

 

Now remember his next conversation with Yoda and Ben he decides to try and save his father he wants to turn him back to the light. How can he be on the path to the darkside by wanting to turn his father back to the light side?

 

It's not until he is on the death star WHERE WE BOTH AGREE that the Emperor is able to bring out the anger in him that he is on the path to the darkside but he quickly realizes that he can't give into his hate an anger.

[Silvrus]

ok so maybe you can explain to me how choosing to die instead of going to the darkside is the start of going to the dark side?

 

His "choice to die" has little bearing. We aren't even sure he DID choose death. At the time it was either join Vader, refuse him and Vader kills him, or jump. He had a vision or something similar on Dagobah that told him his friends were flying into danger, he very well could have had another one telling him he'd be ok.

 

The point is he neglected his training in going to rescue them, reacting on his emotions, namely his fear, allowing it to control his decisions. He appears calm when he jumps, but he is still roiling inside with all that's happened. No matter how calm he appeared in Jabba's Palace, that fear was still driving him. The trilogies are mirrors of each other, telling the Skywalker story. Ani really starts down the Dark Side in AotC by letting his fear drive him to lust for more power, and Luke in TESB by allowing his fear to drive him to rescue his friends. RotS and RotJ are mirrors up to the end, whereas Ani was completely seduced to the Dark Side but Luke is able to overcome it, and bring his father back to the Light.

[Rhyltran]

wow now who's reaching???

 

We know he doesn't see that because in the scene we know he sees

 

1. A city in the clouds

 

2. Han and Leia

 

3. Han and Leia in pain

 

that is all. He doesn't even know if they die not even Yoda can see that.

 

This is also backed up by the official novelization.

 

as for your newer comment.

 

He chose not to join the Darkside. He directly rejected the darkside by choosing suicide. Chosing to die over going to the darkside is the exact oposite of going down to the dark side.

 

Now remember his next conversation with Yoda and Ben he decides to try and save his father he wants to turn him back to the light. How can he be on the path to the darkside by wanting to turn his father back to the light side?

 

It's not until he is on the death star WHERE WE BOTH AGREE that the Emperor is able to bring out the anger in him that he is on the path to the darkside but he quickly realizes that he can't give into his hate an anger.

 

I'm not talking about his vision with Yoda in the swamp. I'm talking about just before he fell. Jedi, even padawars, have been known to foresee things just before they happen. You also still are ignoring my earlier posts. We both agree on the death star but you disagree with what was done before. He went to cloud city out of the selfish desire to protect his friends and put the entire galaxy at risk as a result. He selfishly puts himself in danger in order to rescue Han Solo from Jabba the Hutt and put the entire galaxy at risk as a result. It was his attachment to them that drove him to do these things.

 

The death star scene is a reflection. You fail to notice the bigger picture. You prove this again and again with each post. It was his attachment to his friends that lead to him pulling his lightsaber with the force and striking at Sidious. He does this when Sidious goes on about how his friends are going to die. This enrages Luke. It does so because he's attached to them and doesn't want to lose them.

 

Later he hides from Vader and is spurred into action when once again.. he threatens Leia (In a sense). You think it's only this scene where he comes close to falling. It isn't. It's an accumulation of all past events. He's compared to his father several times throughout the movies. This isn't done by accident or for no reason. Much like his father he lost his known family. Much like his father he's scared of losing those he loves. Much like his father he rushes into things without thinking them through.

 

Jabba's palace almost ended in disaster due to that. It is in the end when he lets go. Not only does he not give into his anger. You miss this point to. By throwing away his saber he stopped worrying about what will happen to his friends. He's not worrying about their lives anymore. He's putting his faith in the force. This event is foreshadowed in the first movie when Ben tells him to let go, let the force guide him, and not use the computer to make the shot at the death star. He's doing just that in the final movie by tossing away his saber.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Rhyltran

[jarjarloves]

His "choice to die" has little bearing. We aren't even sure he DID choose death. At the time it was either join Vader, refuse him and Vader kills him, or jump. He had a vision or something similar on Dagobah that told him his friends were flying into danger, he very well could have had another one telling him he'd be ok.

 

The point is he neglected his training in going to rescue them, reacting on his emotions, namely his fear, allowing it to control his decisions. He appears calm when he jumps, but he is still roiling inside with all that's happened. No matter how calm he appeared in Jabba's Palace, that fear was still driving him. The trilogies are mirrors of each other, telling the Skywalker story. Ani really starts down the Dark Side in AotC by letting his fear drive him to lust for more power, and Luke in TESB by allowing his fear to drive him to rescue his friends. RotS and RotJ are mirrors up to the end, whereas Ani was completely seduced to the Dark Side but Luke is able to overcome it, and bring his father back to the Light.

 

?????? ***????? we dont' know if he chose death? oh come on you must be trolling.

 

He would rather fall to his death then join the darkside. How is that not choosing death?

 

 

from the offiical novelization

 

"With the calmness that Ben himself and Yoda, the Jedi Master, had taught him, Luke Skywalker made, perhaps, what might be his final decision of all. 'Never,' Luke shouted as he stepped out into the empty abyss beneath him. For all its unperceived depth, Luke might have been falling to another galaxy."

 

 

Wait did you just say he might have had another vision saying he will be ok/??? Seriously stop making stuff up.

 

 

Oh and this is proof he is NOT DRESSED LIKE A SITH at the start of ROTJ. This is also from the official novelization

 

The iron main gate of Jabba's palace scraped open harshly, oiled only with sand and time. Standing outside in the dusty gale, staring into the black cavernous entranceway, was Luke Skywalker.

 

He was clad in the robe of the Jedi Knight - a cassock, really - but bore neither gun nor lightsaber

[Silvrus]

wow now who's reaching???

 

We know he doesn't see that because in the scene we know he sees

 

1. A city in the clouds

 

2. Han and Leia

 

3. Han and Leia in pain

 

that is all. He doesn't even know if they die not even Yoda can see that.

 

This is also backed up by the official novelization.

 

as for your newer comment.

 

He chose not to join the Darkside. He directly rejected the darkside by choosing suicide. Chosing to die over going to the darkside is the exact oposite of going down to the dark side.

 

Now remember his next conversation with Yoda and Ben he decides to try and save his father he wants to turn him back to the light. How can he be on the path to the darkside by wanting to turn his father back to the light side?

 

It's not until he is on the death star WHERE WE BOTH AGREE that the Emperor is able to bring out the anger in him that he is on the path to the darkside but he quickly realizes that he can't give into his hate an anger.

 

You're oversimplifying the process. It's complex. Ani knew his actions were wrong, he said so on many occasions. He felt remorse for killing all the sand people out of rage. He knew his relationship with Padme was a mistake, which is why he kept it hidden. Luke didn't know or fully comprehend until much later how his actions were detrimental, but he was mirroring his fathers footsteps. The scenes in Jabba's Palace and barge were mirrored by Ani's in the Tusken Raider camp. The difference being Luke had time to plan and was successful, but it was his fear driving him to it.

 

As I said, it's not one day you're Light Side, the next you're Dark Side. It's a culmination of events, of little things you do to compromise you're integrity until you get to a point where you are standing on the precipice and you either fall or step back. It wasn't until the end of Jedi that Luke really comprehends the power of the Dark Side, the seduction of it.

[Rhyltran]

?????? ***????? we dont' know if he chose death? oh come on you must be trolling.

 

He would rather fall to his death then join the darkside. How is that not choosing death?

 

 

from the offiical novelization

 

 

 

 

Wait did you just say he might have had another vision saying he will be ok/??? Seriously stop making stuff up.

 

 

Oh and this is proof he is NOT DRESSED LIKE A SITH at the start of ROTJ. This is also from the official novelization

 

You seem to be getting rather angry. Take a step back and take a deep breath. Also long ago you told me not to use the novel for Revenge of the Sith because it's non canon. I'm going to now ask you to do the same in the novelization of the original trilogy.

[jarjarloves]

I'm not talking about his vision with Yoda in the swamp. I'm talking about just before he fell. Jedi, even padawars, have been known to foresee things just before they happen. You also still are ignoring my earlier posts. We both agree on the death star but you disagree with what was done before. He went to cloud city out of the selfish desire to protect his friends and put the entire galaxy at risk as a result. He selfishly puts himself in danger in order to rescue Han Solo from Jabba the Hutt and put the entire galaxy at risk as a result. It was his attachment to them that drove him to do these things.

 

The death star scene is a reflection. You fail to notice the bigger picture. You prove this again and again with each post. It was his attachment to his friends that lead to him pulling his lightsaber with the force and striking at Sidious. He does this when Sidious goes on about how his friends are going to die. This enrages Luke. It does so because he's attached to them and doesn't want to lose them.

 

Later he hides from Vader and is spurred into action when once again.. he threatens Leia (In a sense). You think it's only this scene where he comes close to falling. It isn't. It's an accumulation of all past events. He's compared to his father several times throughout the movies. This isn't done by accident or for no reason. Much like his father he lost his known family. Much like his father he's scared of losing those he loves. Much like his father he rushes into things without thinking them through.

 

Jabba's palace almost ended in disaster due to that.

 

like i just posted we know he made chose to die

 

"With the calmness that Ben himself and Yoda, the Jedi Master, had taught him, Luke Skywalker made, perhaps, what might be his final decision of all. 'Never,' Luke shouted as he stepped out into the empty abyss beneath him. For all its unperceived depth, Luke might have been falling to another galaxy."

 

also going to save your friends isn't selfish. It's kind of the exact opposite.

 

also you keep trying to make it seem like I am saying that Luke didn't almost turn to the dark side on the death star because of his anger. I AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT THAT. I disagree with you about Jaba's Palace, George Lucas disagrees with you and so does the Movie, Book and Script.

[jarjarloves]

You seem to be getting rather angry. Take a step back and take a deep breath. Also long ago you told me not to use the novel for Revenge of the Sith because it's non canon. I'm going to now ask you to do the same in the novelization of the original trilogy.

when did I ever say the Offiical novelization of ROTS isn't canon??????

Edited April 26, 2012 by jarjarloves

[Rhyltran]

like i just posted we know he made chose to die

 

 

 

also going to save your friends isn't selfish. It's kind of the exact opposite.

 

also you keep trying to make it seem like I am saying that Luke didn't almost turn to the dark side on the death star because of his anger. I AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT THAT. I disagree with you about Jaba's Palace, George Lucas disagrees with you and so does the Movie, Book and Script.

 

It is selfish when there's a bigger picture. Your friends over the entire galaxy. Putting the needs of the few over the needs of the many IS selfish. That's not what a Jedi is supposed to do. The Jedi puts the needs of the many before the few. The Jedi puts the needs of the many even over those that they grew up with. It's part of being a Jedi.

 

You told me the novelization wasn't Canon when I started that Sidious was more powerful than Yoda because the novelization makes that clear. You stated that George Lucas didn't write the novel so what we see in the movie is correct whereas the novel isn't.

 

Tell me where the novel, script, and the movie refutes what I stated about putting the needs of the few over the needs of the many? I haven't seen any such thing from you. The only thing I have seen is you disprove a single statement I made about Luke dropping out of Cloud City. Other than that.. Nothing.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Rhyltran

[jarjarloves]

It is selfish when there's a bigger picture. Your friends over the entire galaxy. Putting the needs of the few over the needs of the many IS selfish. That's not what a Jedi is supposed to do. The Jedi puts the needs of the many before the few. The Jedi puts the needs of the many even over those that they grew up with. It's part of being a Jedi.

 

You told me the novelization wasn't Canon when I started that Sidious was more powerful than Yoda because the novelization makes that clear. You stated that George Lucas didn't write the novel so what we see in the movie is correct whereas the novel isn't.

 

find it because I NEVER said that. I would also agree Sidous is more powerful then Yoda we see that in the movie anyway when Yoda gets his butt kicked.

 

the only thing I said wasn't canon was any books AFTER ROTJ like the Thrawn Triology or the Dark Empire trilogy.

 

I have never in my entire LIFE not said an official novelization isn't canon. I frequently use them to back up my arguments and I'm probably one of the very few people on these boards who has actually read all of them.

 

this might help you out though http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/selfish

[Silvrus]

?????? ***????? we dont' know if he chose death? oh come on you must be trolling.

 

He would rather fall to his death then join the darkside. How is that not choosing death?

 

 

from the offiical novelization

 

 

 

 

Wait did you just say he might have had another vision saying he will be ok/??? Seriously stop making stuff up.

 

 

Oh and this is proof he is NOT DRESSED LIKE A SITH at the start of ROTJ. This is also from the official novelization

 

I haven't read the official novelization, so I'm going off what I saw in the movies. I'm saying what COULD have happened. And I also never claimed he was dressed as a Sith. In fact I never mentioned anything about his clothing. However, if you would like to go down that road, taking into account how GL chose to portray the Light and Dark Side characters in the movies, namely black clothing for Vader/Emperor/Maul/etc and tans/browns for Jedi, I think it's fairly telling that something is amiss when Ani, who we KNOW is going down the Dark Side, begins wearing black, and later his son, who Vader and the Emperor are actively attempting to lure to the Dark Side is also wearing black. Nothing in the movies was done without thought (with perhaps exception being Jar Jar and his accursed race), with colors being chosen on purpose, everything from clothing to lightsaber blade color, to demonstrate the characters morality.

[Rhyltran]

find it because I NEVER said that. I would also agree Sidous is more powerful then Yoda we see that in the movie anyway when Yoda gets his butt kicked.

 

the only thing I said wasn't canon was any books AFTER ROTJ like the Thrawn Triology or the Dark Empire trilogy.

 

I have never in my entire LIFE not said an official novelization isn't canon. I frequently use them to back up my arguments and I'm probably one of the very few people on these boards who has actually read all of them.

 

this might help you out though http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/selfish

 

He is caring about his own self interest. He goes to them because he's scared to lose them. He knows he is the hope of the entire galaxy. He knows the entire galaxy needs him. Still, he risks his life to save his friends. Jedi are not supposed to form attachments for this very reason. If the Jedi saw a vision where a great number of people they know die and then saw if they help those people many more will die.. it's the will of the force to simply not get involved.

 

Luke even states that they can die. Yoda tells Luke he needs to stay. He tells Luke if that's their fate he needs to accept it. This is something similar he told Anakin awhile back. If you want to use the novelizations and official sources give me one other source where Force Choke was used that did NOT worry the other Jedi. Force Choke has been established as dark both in the prequels and the TCW series.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Rhyltran

[jarjarloves]

I haven't read the official novelization, so I'm going off what I saw in the movies. I'm saying what COULD have happened. And I also never claimed he was dressed as a Sith. In fact I never mentioned anything about his clothing. However, if you would like to go down that road, taking into account how GL chose to portray the Light and Dark Side characters in the movies, namely black clothing for Vader/Emperor/Maul/etc and tans/browns for Jedi, I think it's fairly telling that something is amiss when Ani, who we KNOW is going down the Dark Side, begins wearing black, and later his son, who Vader and the Emperor are actively attempting to lure to the Dark Side is also wearing black. Nothing in the movies was done without thought (with perhaps exception being Jar Jar and his accursed race), with colors being chosen on purpose, everything from clothing to lightsaber blade color, to demonstrate the characters morality.

 

thats 100% ok if you want to go by what you saw in the movies. What is NOT ok is making stuff up. If you are going by what happens in the movies you can not assume things happen that you either

 

1. do not see

2. do not hear about.

 

For example you can't assume Chewbaca and Han Solo are gay. You can't say well they could have been making out when Leia wasn't around. It doesn't work that way.

 

As for his clothes even the script says they are Jedi Robes not sith robes.

[Wolfninjajedi]

He is caring about his own self interest. He goes to them because he's scared to lose them. He knows he is the hope of the entire galaxy. He knows the entire galaxy needs him. Still, he risks his life to save his friends. Jedi are not supposed to form attachments for this very reason. If the Jedi saw a vision where a great number of people they know die and then saw if they help those people many more will die.. it's the will of the force to simply not get involved.

 

Luke even states that they can die. Yoda tells Luke he needs to stay. He tells Luke if that's their fate he needs to accept it. This is something similar he told Anakin awhile back. If you want to use the novelizations and official sources give me one other source where Force Choke was used that did NOT worry the other Jedi. Force Choke has been established as dark both in the prequels and the TCW series.

 

Don't forget, not even Yoda could see their fate. Luke just assumed because of the vision, that they would die or what have you.

 

Luke: "But Han and Leia, will die if I don't."

 

Ben: "You don't know that, even Yoda cannot see their fate."

[Rhyltran]

Don't forget, not even Yoda could see their fate. Luke just assumed because of the vision, that they would die or what have you.

 

Luke: "But Han and Leia, will die if I don't."

 

Ben: "You don't know that, even Yoda cannot see their fate."

 

Right. He also tells him if he goes he could destroy all in which they fought for and suffered. He takes the risk anyway. In the end, was it the right call? Probably but he still put himself in danger. The galaxy in danger. And risked everything for them. While some may not consider it selfish when the entire galaxy is suffering and he put it at risk to be ruled forever under a tyrant.. it was. What if Vader had captured him? What if he had died? Even Yoda warns him of the failure in the cave.

 

Then he puts himself at the same risk rescuing Han Solo from Jabba's Palace.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Rhyltran

[Silvrus]

thats 100% ok if you want to go by what you saw in the movies. What is NOT ok is making stuff up. If you are going by what happens in the movies you can not assume things happen that you either

 

1. do not see

2. do not hear about.

 

For example you can't assume Chewbaca and Han Solo are gay. You can't say well they could have been making out when Leia wasn't around. It doesn't work that way.

 

As for his clothes even the script says they are Jedi Robes not sith robes.

 

Let me see if I understand this. You are saying that Luke was never in danger of falling to the Dark Side until the VERY END of Jedi? That none of his selfish choices up to that point had any bearing on pushing him down that path? That by neglecting his Jedi training in a rash attempt to save his friends multiple times he was actually, in reality, acting as a Jedi and not a Sith, when EVERYTHING we know about both sides says the opposite? Jedi acknowledge their emotions but do not let them consume or control them. That is in the Jedi Code. Sith react to their emotions and allow them to fuel their power, to push them into rash and thoughtless actions. Sure there are exceptions, Mace Windu used his emotions fuel his combat, and Sidious was very Jedi like in how he controlled his emotions, but they are the exceptions.

 

You only need to see the scene with Luke in the Dark Side Cave in TESB where he fights Vader only to be shown his own face under the mask to realize he was in real danger of falling to the Dark Side even at that point.

[jarjarloves]

Right. He also tells him if he goes he could destroy all in which they fought for and suffered. He takes the risk anyway. In the end, was it the right call? Probably but he still put himself in danger. The galaxy in danger. And risked everything for them. While some may not consider it selfish when the entire galaxy is suffering and he put it at risk to be ruled forever under a tyrant.. it was. What if Vader had captured him? What if he had died? Even Yoda warns him of the failure in the cave.

 

Then he puts himself at the same risk rescuing Han Solo from Jabba's Palace.

 

of course it's the right call because that chain of events leads to the emperor dying, Vader turning back to the light, the empire being destroyed and all the main characters surviving.

 

If luke never went or even didn't go to save Han then the ground assualt on Endor would have failed, Leia would still be a sex slave for Jaba, Lando woudln't have joined the rebelion and help lead the assualt on the Death Star and well the Empire would have had a fully complete Death Star and Luke wouldn't be able to stop them.

 

Best case scenario Luke goes on his own and some how destroys the emperor but what Luke learned is that he needs his friends. It's sort of like how Harry Potter was stronger because of his friendship and Voldormot was actualy weak because he had no friends and was alone.

 

you are assuming an awful lot. such as Yoda is right (turns out he is not). You also need to look at Yoda's motivation. He is afraid that Luke will become like Anakin who he once trained instead of trusting that he is strong on his own.

 

Also ***. Ben says "that boy is our last hope" yoda replys "no there is another" which he is refering of course to Leia

 

BUT!!!!!!! Yoda knows that Leia is on the cloud city and might die. So if Luke fails and Leia dies also.......

 

btw did you find out where I said official movie novelizations are not canon?

[jarjarloves]

Let me see if I understand this. You are saying that Luke was never in danger of falling to the Dark Side until the VERY END of Jedi? That none of his selfish choices up to that point had any bearing on pushing him down that path? That by neglecting his Jedi training in a rash attempt to save his friends multiple times he was actually, in reality, acting as a Jedi and not a Sith, when EVERYTHING we know about both sides says the opposite? Jedi acknowledge their emotions but do not let them consume or control them. That is in the Jedi Code. Sith react to their emotions and allow them to fuel their power, to push them into rash and thoughtless actions. Sure there are exceptions, Mace Windu used his emotions fuel his combat, and Sidious was very Jedi like in how he controlled his emotions, but they are the exceptions.

 

You only need to see the scene with Luke in the Dark Side Cave in TESB where he fights Vader only to be shown his own face under the mask to realize he was in real danger of falling to the Dark Side even at that point.

 

 

again his choices aren't selfish. Risking your life to save your friends isn't selfish, Choosing death over joining the Dark side is not Selfsih.

 

Oh and also back to point

 

Force Choke it's a tool how you use it determines if you are dark or not. For example take a gun is it good or evil??

 

Well it depends on how you use it. If you use to kill innocent children then yeah it could be evil. If you use it kill a deer so you could feed children then it is good.

 

Same with the force. If you use Force choke to kill people out of anger then it's pretty clear that its evil.

 

If you use it to oh i don't know incapacitate Gamorian guards then it's good. Luke doesn't kill the guards you know.

 

Also from the Official Novelizaion.

 

 

Luke raised his hand and pointed at the guards. Before either could draw a weapon, they were both clutching their own throats, choking, gasping. They fell to their knees.

 

Luke lowered his hand and walked on. The guards, suddenly able to breathe again, slumped to the sanddrifted steps. They didn't follow.

[Rhyltran]

again his choices aren't selfish. Risking your life to save your friends isn't selfish, Choosing death over joining the Dark side is not Selfsih.

 

Oh and also back to point

 

Force Choke it's a tool how you use it determines if you are dark or not. For example take a gun is it good or evil??

 

Well it depends on how you use it. If you use to kill innocent children then yeah it could be evil. If you use it kill a deer so you could feed children then it is good.

 

Same with the force. If you use Force choke to kill people out of anger then it's pretty clear that its evil.

 

If you use it to oh i don't know incapacitate Gamorian guards then it's good. Luke doesn't kill the guards you know.

 

Also from the Official Novelizaion.

 

I'm not searching through all my posts to find it. Regardless if you said it or not it's irrelevant. Force Powers aren't the same as guns. There's two sides of the force. Drawing the dark side and using it for good is still drawing on the dark side. In Star Wars "The ends justify the means." is a lie. Anytime this comes up it always ends badly. Saving your friends and putting everyone else at risk is selfish and dangerous. You're once again missing the bigger picture. You also can't say for sure all would have failed had Luke not shown up. Remember, they were already in the process of escaping when Luke came.

 

We also don't know how the plan to rescue Han would have went differently had Luke not been in the picture. I'm sorry you have trouble reading into the foreshadowing throughout the trilogy that hints that Luke was going to struggle with the dark side. I'm sorry you didn't understand the message in the cave or the similarities between Luke and his father. I'm sorry you missed the few times where they actually compare Luke to his father. Note this isn't to bash you. I, myself, am a writer and it's very obvious to me all the incidents where they foreshadowed how the end was going to come up.

 

Everything down from the comparisons between Luke and his father. The fact that he lost his hand after not listening to his teacher and rushing into a situation without thinking. (Which Lucas did the same for Anakin as well. He lost his hand for the same reason.) Everything leads up to that final point. They didn't decide right there and then "Luke has been a perfect model jedi but now he'll struggle." this isn't the case at all. "The powers aren't dark it's how you use it." has never been true in Star Wars. I ask again; bring up a point in the novels/TCW/Wherever to prove that Force Choke isn't a dark power.

 

There's a reason we only see fallen Jedi/Jedi that are falling use this power and why we don't see Jedi throwing Force Lightning around.

 

Before you say it yes I'm aware they were captured when Luke arrived however the plan was in motion and Luke did little towards that plan.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Rhyltran

[Silvrus]

again his choices aren't selfish. Risking your life to save your friends isn't selfish, Choosing death over joining the Dark side is not Selfsih.

 

Oh and also back to point

 

Force Choke it's a tool how you use it determines if you are dark or not. For example take a gun is it good or evil??

 

Well it depends on how you use it. If you use to kill innocent children then yeah it could be evil. If you use it kill a deer so you could feed children then it is good.

 

Same with the force. If you use Force choke to kill people out of anger then it's pretty clear that its evil.

 

If you use it to oh i don't know incapacitate Gamorian guards then it's good. Luke doesn't kill the guards you know.

 

Also from the Official Novelizaion.

 

I agree the Force is neutral, it is how you use it that either enlightens or corrupts. But there are things and places that are purely Dark Side, through either conscious effort or massive horror. I will also agree that in the end, his friends made him stronger, that through their strength he was able to find his own strength to overcome the Dark Side. However, that doesn't negate the fact that starting at least in TESB he was treading dangerous ground. Not that he was already fallen, but that we was on the way to the precipice at which he would most certainly fall. His experiences gave him the strength to stave off the Dark Side until he gained that moment of true clarity, at which time he stepped fully in the mantle of Jedi Knight. On the other hand, had he not been successful in rescuing his friends, his attachment to them would have led to the same grief that pushed Ani to the Dark Side. Like I said, the trilogies are mirrors of each other, in that they are exact reflections but the differences are there, in that you raise your right arm, it looks like the left hand in the mirror. Meaning, that the same things occur with different outcomes.