Commando 1.2 Armor is Worse then Rakata (too much Accuracy)

[zlmitchell]

Hello friends in the community,

 

I would like to raise a HUGE issue that i have run across and get your opinions on it.

 

Now by the time you are in Tier 4 you will have approx 1900 aim and need approx i piece of gear with accuracy on it to hit the 108% that is needed. Now when we look at the brand spanking new set pieces that are released. Four pieces come with 57 accuracy on them... this is WAY TOO MUCH... that requires that we remod so too much. Also with the new gear we sacrifice Aim for endurance... Really. I would never... I am already breaking 20k hp on my commando and that is better then most of our other DPS, especially as a heavy armor class.

 

With these armor upgrades i have noticed a few problems. The MK-1 there are two sets that Commando's Look at buying; BoltBlasters and Annihilators. With Annihilators there is an earpiece with indirectly replaces the Rakata one Crit for Crit and then They added Surge to the new one so then we have to find the Accuracy somewhere else.

 

So then they added Accuracy to the Implants... Wait we wear two of them and they are 57 each. so that means we wont need accuracy on any other piece of armor ever right... WRONG! They added it to at random possibly four other pieces as well. How can we possibly get the most of our class with this. Am i supposed to where my Rakata implants with my Rakata mods to not have 1000% accuracy.

 

There is a person on my server who runs around with all Accuracy mods on, is he crazy or does he know something i dont? does stacking to 150% accuracy do something i dont know like make you see people naked? Or do we need BioWare to step in and fix our armor?

 

Thanks for reading and responding!

 

Here is the list of items OVER LOADED with accuracy...

 

http://www.torhead.com/item/byjASsM/black-hole-annihilators-mk-1-enhancer

http://www.torhead.com/item/2ekTj94/black-hole-annihilators-mk-3-enhancer

http://www.torhead.com/item/80EixDr/black-hole-annihilators-mk-3-assault-cannon

http://www.torhead.com/item/3fBptJv/black-hole-boltblasters-mk-1-boots

http://www.torhead.com/item/50dW83W/black-hole-boltblasters-mk-2-boots

http://www.torhead.com/item/8sMycb5/black-hole-boltblasters-mk-1-gauntlets

http://www.torhead.com/item/eEwVE5z/black-hole-boltblasters-mk-1-generator

http://www.torhead.com/item/3FtDxJR/black-hole-boltblasters-mk-2-generator

http://www.torhead.com/item/aOPDzna/black-hole-boltblasters-mk-2-blaster-pistol

http://www.torhead.com/item/21hoTSz/black-hole-boltblasters-mk-2-body-armor

http://www.torhead.com/item/9OuGK9F/black-hole-boltblasters-mk-2-device

http://www.torhead.com/item/gC19VFP/black-hole-boltblasters-mk-2-leggings

http://www.torhead.com/item/eRoDhCu/black-hole-boltblasters-mk-3-greaves

http://www.torhead.com/item/gGDMBO/black-hole-boltblasters-mk-3-helmet

http://www.torhead.com/item/gESfe0/black-hole-boltblasters-mk-3-chestguard

 

 

And Campaign Gear

 

http://www.torhead.com/item/eTprgPa/campaign-commandos-assault-cannon

http://www.torhead.com/item/anoODsY/campaign-commandos-gauntlets

http://www.torhead.com/item/1Yz0oLG/campaign-commandos-greaves

http://www.torhead.com/item/h3jbJZJ/campaign-commandos-helmet

 

Edited April 24, 2012 by zlmitchell

[GroogOT]

Someone posted about excess accuracy converting to armor pen, never saw if it got confirmed or disproved. This game has so much funny business with stats that assuming things are straightforward like WoW will lead to poor assumptions.

[zlmitchell]

Right that is an assumption that excess accuracy gets turned into armor pen but what affect does that have on dps. compared to Crit and surge. Does BioWare have the stats right, when they set up the gear in the first place? Should all commandos be stacking accuracy?

[Gyronamics]

Someone posted about excess accuracy converting to armor pen, never saw if it got confirmed or disproved. This game has so much funny business with stats that assuming things are straightforward like WoW will lead to poor assumptions.

 

No.

 

Accuracy over 100% reduces the enemies chance to block or dodge the hit.

 

It doesn't reduce armour.

 

You "might" do more damage by missing less.

[zlmitchell]

No.

 

Accuracy over 100% reduces the enemies chance to block or dodge the hit.

 

It doesn't reduce armour.

 

You "might" do more damage by missing less.

Well that solves that, so no need to go over 108% because i never miss on a boss anyway... so why is there soo much accuracy!!!

[GroogOT]

No.

 

Accuracy over 100% reduces the enemies chance to block or dodge the hit.

 

It doesn't reduce armour.

 

You "might" do more damage by missing less.

 

As with other things in this game...

 

Tooltip/description != real performance.

 

As a trooper, above all, you should know this to be true. And I'm jsut saying someone posted that, so it may be worth going to read about.

[zlmitchell]

Once again, i would like to solidify that the 108% to ranged accuracy is all you need in order to not miss on boss fights so to go any higher then that is unnecessary unless you start to increase you damage on the boss, which no one has proven because in order to do so you would lose stats that would decrease your DPS intensely.

 

BioWare has messed up Commando End Game armor and do not know our class works.

[zlmitchell]

So i just crunched some numbers and this is what i got.

 

Rakata armor had these stat averages over all on the sets.

 

Aim 106

Enduance 100.85

Crit 22.69

Surge 23.54

Power 27.54

Accuracy 19.62

 

Black Hole has these averages with Campaign gear and MK-1 from vendor.

 

Aim 112.33

Enduance 105.5

Crit 39.75

Surge 19

Power 24.25

Accuracy 32.75

 

So when we compare the stats over all we get this

 

Aim +6.33

Enduance +4.65

Crit +17.06

Surge -4.54

Power -3.29

Accuracy +13.13

 

This confirms that BioWare increase the base crit on the armor and decreased how much Surge and power is on them. When you upgrade from Rakata to Black Hole tear you are going to take a drop in stats which you will have to re mod to fix. But why!!! More endurance, yes i understand later in the game get more HP, More aim of course, more Crit sure... accuracy we dont need it and loss of surge and power for the accuracy... come on...

 

Here is my spreadsheet.

http://bit.ly/JmfAOR

Edited April 24, 2012 by zlmitchell

[zlmitchell]

So here are some more stats to go along with that:

 

Total Difference between sets

 

Aim +92

Endurance +60

Crit +182

Surge -27

Power +22

Accuracy +138

 

Percent Change From Rakata to Black Hole

 

Aim +7%

Endurance +5%

Crit +65%

Surge -11%

Power +8%

Accuracy +54%

[Gyronamics]

The sets suck because they want to waste your time.

 

Or give you something do do in your subscription time.

 

Depending on how cynical you are.

 

So all the sets are far from perfect and need even more grinding to mod them perfectly.

[Rainsfords]

I feel as if the people who do the combat system haven't told the people who design the armor stats that defenses don't work on anything but white, "normal" damage, which is what causes them to overload on accuracy. Regardless, in PvP, every class has at least 5% base-evade, so if you have 0 accuracy and 0 accuracy talents you'll have a 95% chance to hit with tech/force and a 85% chance to hit with white damage. Equal-level, unbuffed monsters have 0% evade so you'll always hit with tech/force and miss 10% of the time with white, normal damage. Use that as your benchmark.

[ArchangelLBC]

Eh, I haven't seen a lot of crit/power mods, and its so easy to hit the soft cap on Surge that having accuracy or that doesn't really bother me. Seems 6 of one, half a dozen of the other honestly.

[zlmitchell]

LOL not surprised hearing that at all when i posted this... You need to learn the basics of you class... I bet one of the reasons we dont have a in game DPS meter is to not humiliate people who dont understand the numbers as much as others. And this is why they need to fix the gear. Edited April 25, 2012 by zlmitchell

[Malorific]

okay then guys, I do not seem to see many parse out there so here is mine from last night EC HM.

 

- Toth and Zorn Kill

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/95601e1d-5fd8-442d-91fa-d17e8ce6713f#d=0,f=10

 

You will need to flick between the drop downs to drill down to greater detail.

 

Points to note:

 

I have 103% accuracy from the talent alone.....missed once with FA and 8 times with HS

 

I have no idea how accuracy works in ToR....possible thoughts, as you can see I have not missed at all with tech abilities (which have default 100%).......its been said that bosses have 8% resistance/defence etc.

 

If this is so, why I am not missing/avoiding with tech abilities?? (Grav round and Demo round)

 

Does increasing the accuracy amounts mean that these DO more dmg...again no it does not at least on the operation boss dummy:

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/30cc1120-d023-42cc-80bb-1cda456ed019#d=0,t=2

 

Standard 103 accuracy

 

and then with 106.54 accuracy - only change being this increase in accuracy

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/96dd4c4a-96a7-4e98-a081-7c0f7a95bb4e#d=0,t=2

 

Slight difference in dmg is because I cast 3 more rounds in the same time - avg dmg is the same, actually 1 less with the greater accuracy.

 

Conclusions to draw from this is EITHER accuracy does not affect resistances/defences at all and only increases the chance to hit up to 100% OR the Ops Dummies do not have any innate resistances/defences on them - making this test mute.

 

Doubt they would give dummies no resistance because that would just be pointless....so I think that accuracy is ONLY good to get to 100%

 

Its of course not possible to test this live on bosses unfortunately so we must assume BW have it set up correctly.

 

Anyway, back to the top parse for the live, again points to note. All the DPS are fairly equally geared full rakata with the odd bit of BM. We have all been playing together for many years in WoW and most of us obsess about Minmaxxing and no our stuff....Shadow DPS was just learning his rotation so was down on his output.

 

The problem here is clear, that Sentinels are doing much more dmg that everyone else in PVE due to the sustained nature of their dots so that movement does not affect them.

 

Our gunslinger is being a scrub and not stacking accuracy - after seeing this I spoke with him and he will do that - again pushing his DPS further up leaving me behind.

 

We also have a Sage who pulls near identical numbers to us on previous parses - bottom line the ranged all seem very close - melee are always a mile ahead though.

 

So what the issue with Troopers then??

 

Well I am not sure about you but I had insane burst in PVP....really really stupid, far more than any of the others pre 1.2 With a GR, GR into DR, GR into HiB it would nearly kill anyone I came up against. At the time the only measure we had about output were the Combat logs at the end of Warzones. I can not remember a warzone where I did not top - and often by a long way - not elitest just pointing out a fact.

 

People moaned about GR spamming (which we did not but as DR and HiB are instant the casts are never seen), we all know this. So what happened Gr gets a nerf bat, our crit talents get hit at the same time double dipping us. This makes it more even in PVP now for certain - and WAS needed in PVP.

 

But burst is not what happens in PVE, and the above nerfs have hit us very very hard.

 

I know my rotation down pat, only use HiB when you have 5 stacks of Charged barrel, and Demo with 5 vortex up (easy to do that) - always use FA when CoF procs, and use FA if off CD and CoF not procced. Fill with GR and weave Hammershot if required.

 

Bottom line is that without more data we can not reliably determine what stats we need to aim for. I am hoping that we scale better as we gear into Tier 2 because right now I have to work very hard to just even keep up.

 

If anyone has any thoughts or ideas I am open to them - also if people have their own parses they can share the more data we have the better we will get as a class.

 

Cheers all,

 

Mal.

[NoFishing]

OR the Ops Dummies do not have any innate resistances/defences on them - making this test mute.

 

In fact this is the case. I've seen it acknowledged as a known bug someplace on the forums.

Edited April 26, 2012 by NoFishing

[Malorific]

In fact this is the case. I've seen it acknowledged as a known bug someplace on the forums.

 

Okay fair enough, if we assume that this is correct - there is actual live data in the above parse on bosses....still zero misses on grav round and Demo round.

 

The question that therefore needs to be answered is does accuracy actually increase the dmg that tech abilities do,. because it certainly does NOT stop it missing as they always hit.

 

Is it therefore worth regearing for accuracy for me just so that a few FA and HiB hit.......the re-itemization away from power/crit/surge to get enough accuracy will probably offset any gain in DPS on these abilities by reducing the DPS of all abilities??

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/18579 - 19:30 option

 

49dps lost to misses on the Zoth & Torn Kill.......thats not much and to get the required level of accuracy would mean I would almost certainly lose that since other main stats have to take the hit to make way.

 

Final Boss fight entry - Firebrand - 60DPS lost...but a much longer fight.

 

If BW would at least give us some indication of how accuracy actually works above 100% instead of just tools tips then it would be useful.

 

Until such time I think I shall be sticking with the stand +3% from talents

 

M.

[ImariKurumi]

does stacking to 150% accuracy do something i dont know like make you see people naked?

 

Made me laugh lol... I'll personally stack accuracy for that...

[jedip_enguin]

I stripped all the accuracy enhancements out of my Rakata set earlier in the week and replaced them with Columi crit+surge and power+surge enhancements.

 

My base crit (with my Rakata stim on) is 32.7% and my Surge is now 79.7% but my ranged accuracy is down to 94% (with tech down to 104%) (this is with Black Hole helm+Ear, Rakata bracers+Columi belt+Rakata gun and Generator and no augment slots)

 

Haven't had a chance to test it yet to see what it hits like, might need to swap one of them back in to get the white hit rate back up.

 

Will try to spend some time on dummies and see what it parses at, but if the dummy bug mentioned earlier is for real I assume any data it yields will be flawed.

Edited April 27, 2012 by jedip_enguin

[Fhrosty]

Kinda waiting on more solid data like everyone else, but if it's true that to completely max our class we need to mod our top-end raid gear, is that really such a bad thing? For "casual-raiders", the gear seems still pretty sufficient for just about everything but the hardest of challenges, while the maximists still have an additional goal to strive towards beyond just getting that random lucky drop after doing the same raid 20 times. Doesn't that mean that those of you with "perfect" stats get to feel rewarded over someone who just says, "um, yea I'll fill that empty slot in my guild for that Op just because I have nothing better to do. Ooh I won a roll for something shiny? Nifty."

[BroadStreetBully]

Now by the time you are in Tier 4

 

Friendly tip. We are only on Tier 2 (Campaign) gear currently. It will be a few major patches before anyone gets Tier 4 gear. Rakata = Tier 1.3 and Campaign = 2.1

Edited May 3, 2012 by BroadStreetBully

[WaldoA]

Might have already been said and im gravedigging a bit, but accuracy over 100% reduces their armour, it says so if you hover over your accuracy attribute.

[Fhrosty]

Might have already been said and im gravedigging a bit, but accuracy over 100% reduces their armour, it says so if you hover over your accuracy attribute.

 

Not in-game right now so I can't verify, but I thought last I checked (a good while back), the tooltip only said that accuracy over 100% just reduces the enemy's dodge chance. Did the tooltip silently change itself during one of the patches?

Edited May 16, 2012 by Fhrosty

[Burtlebe]

One thing to note is once 1.3 hits and you can add the augment slots to gear this will make up for alot of the shortfall that some of the current gear might have as fas as stats go.

[Luceon]

The tool tip for accuracy states that over anything over 100% reduces the targets defense. So one would assume it is referring to the defense rate (as it is the only stat which uses the word defense) which, as it has always been, lowers the rate at which someone can dodge, parry, block attacks.

[Fhrosty]

The tool tip for accuracy states that over anything over 100% reduces the targets defense. So one would assume it is referring to the defense rate (as it is the only stat which uses the word defense) which, as it has always been, lowers the rate at which someone can dodge, parry, block attacks.

 

Sounds like that may be where the confusion is coming from then, definition of "defense". I think people typically assume Defense means armor / dmg resist, but in this game it would seem the word is used for "hit or miss" calculation instead.