Healers

[pathiss]

Heal Spec was a joke before they Fixed it. All healers are decent now. They have not made Ops healers much better, they just made it so they are not so frustrating to play anymore with the silly micro managing the TAs and Spray Cans.

 

Further more, I am not sure why every thinks you should be able to solo kill a healer. Healers SHOULD be hard to kill. If they were not, no one would play one in PvP. We are the first to get marked and normally have a parade following us trying to kill us. Even now Healers are not abundant in PVP. Keep up your B****ing and you will find yourself more and more in a match with no healer. Then you can B**** about that too.

 

You are wrong about all healers being decent now. You can't have a squishy healer with no ability to tank damage that is easily interrupted and call it decent. My merc is 'decent' ...my sorcerer is worthless against anyone that knows how to interrupt.

[Dartagon]

I am a merc healer btw. I was just saying op healing was not nerfed. They are now on-par or better than the other 2 healing classes. 1v1 healers should be able to survive yea...but pre 1.2 we could survive 3v1 for way too long.

 

You could survive 3 vs 1 against really bad players.

[pathiss]

Or he was referring to being guarded, but then its really a 3 v 2. I could stay up indefinitely in a 3v2 before 1.2 on my merc due to guard.

[Khoraji]

You could survive 3 vs 1 against really bad players.

 

Really bad is "Average" in swtor lol.

[Dartagon]

Really bad is "Average" in swtor lol.

 

Good point

[ComeAndSee]

For those who complain about being a healer and getting owned, let me give you my perspective. In order for healers to be very effective, you need a perfect equilibrium of support.

 

What you need is:

2 healers

1 tank

 

//

 

1.The 2 healers naturally support each other by healing the one not being focused.

2. The tank focuses entirely on peeling / guarding and DPSing + taunting the individuals pounding on your healers.

3. The healers support the tank by healing them.

 

If you reach this perfect level of coordination and support you have healers that impossible to kill. It's not perfect because if you only have 1 healer you're basically kamikazing yourself with guard.

 

I've had matches where I've done 200k protection and died 3 times, but my healers didn't die once the whole game.

Edited April 24, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[Khoraji]

For those who complain about being a healer and getting owned, let me give you my perspective. In order for healers to be very effective, you need a perfect equilibrium of support.

 

What you need is:

2 healers

1 tank

 

//

 

1.The 2 healers naturally support each other by healing the one not being focused.

2. The tank focuses entirely on peeling / guarding and DPSing + taunting the individuals pounding on your healers.

3. The healers support the tank by healing them.

 

If you reach this perfect level of coordination and support you have healers that impossible to kill. It's not perfect because if you only have 1 healer you're basically kamikazing yourself with guard.

 

I've had matches where I've done 200k protection and died 3 times, but my healers didn't die once the whole game.

 

This is very good advice. nice post.

[pathiss]

Nice post, but kind of worthless for people that pug. Which is the vast majority now that most of the real PvP guilds left due to end game PvP content / performance fail.

[Raific]

I am a merc healer btw. I was just saying op healing was not nerfed. They are now on-par or better than the other 2 healing classes. 1v1 healers should be able to survive yea...but pre 1.2 we could survive 3v1 for way too long.

I cannot disagree with this statement, Khoraji. I believe each healer is on par with each other but per situation, each has their strengths and weakness. Anyone, like Pathiss, who believes one is super OP and the other are doomed is just someone that really doesn't understand how to play the class as intended. A quick scroll threw the forums will present each class in a "OP/FOTM" as well a "Class is doomed". Too many people just want WOW II.

 

Fact is, the healer classes are very well balanced ATM. Some tweaking here and there but all these exaggerated claims are just silly nonsense. But in the end, all we have is our opinion and chest pounding, dont we Pathiss?

[Raific]

This is exactly the problem. You get some Solo happy tool that thinks they should be able to jump into a group and kill a group working as a team. Then they run on here and scream and holler that someone is OP.

 

When my Tank friend and I go in to PvP together, we can hold off a large group for a very long time. Until that group gets smart and starts to counter our tactics. It's all about tactics but too many here think its all about DPS and smashing the same 3 keys.

 

So far in SW I have seen many talented tanks and healers but see much less talented "DPSers".

Edited April 24, 2012 by Raific

[Khoraji]

Nice post, but kind of worthless for people that pug. Which is the vast majority now that most of the real PvP guilds left due to end game PvP content / performance fail.

 

So the game isn't broken for pre-mades...but the pre-mades left because the game was broken...??

 

Im pretty sure being in a pug as a tank still allows you to guard. PUG doesn't mean run around by yourself. Teamwork is important in a multiplayer game.

[Raific]

So the game isn't broken for pre-mades...but the pre-mades left because the game was broken...??

 

Im pretty sure being in a pug as a tank still allows you to guard. PUG doesn't mean run around by yourself. Teamwork is important in a multiplayer game.

 

I just read through Pathiss' post history. Don't waste your time. LOL He will not get it.

[pathiss]

I cannot disagree with this statement, Khoraji. I believe each healer is on par with each other but per situation, each has their strengths and weakness. Anyone, like Pathiss, who believes one is super OP and the other are doomed is just someone that really doesn't understand how to play the class as intended. A quick scroll threw the forums will present each class in a "OP/FOTM" as well a "Class is doomed". Too many people just want WOW II.

 

Fact is, the healer classes are very well balanced ATM. Some tweaking here and there but all these exaggerated claims are just silly nonsense. But in the end, all we have is our opinion and chest pounding, dont we Pathiss?

 

1. First I didnt say anything was super OP. I said I would feel over powered on my operative if the general ttk hadnt changed so much. You seem to be unable to connect the dots with what I am saying, so I am not going to waste my time trying again.

 

2. Secondly disprove my point. I said sorcerers are completely worthless against anyone with half a brain that knows how to interrupt. This is consistent with my post history on the subject. Also consistent with my post history on the subject is me saying that they -are- viable, but only against puggers and only then, when left alone. If you actually play a sorcerer, you will realize that yes, you can dish out more healing, but you are far far more susceptible to being interrupted. You are also far squishier than mercs and operatives. A competent player will shut you down. The difference in a sorc pre 1.2 and post 1.2 is the change to bending, consumption, AND ttk all at the same time. It was too much.

 

To clarify for people with more intelligence and game knowledge than the person I quoted. There is a difference between bandwidth and through put when it comes to healing. It is pretty common knowledge that a sorcerer has the most bandwidth available to them and if left running wide open, can heal circles around people. It is also common knowledge to good players that the actual through put is easy to throttle via interrupts on general squishiness of the class.

 

I would also like to point out the players participating in more competitive matches already thought operatives were nearly on par with mercs before 1.2. I found this also to be true through practice. To quote myself from another thread:

 

Pre 1.2 - Random Pugs

 

Sorc > Merc > Operative

 

Pre 1.2 - Competitive play / premades

 

Merc > Operative > Sorc

 

Post 1.2 - Random Pugs

 

Operative > Merc >= Sorcerer (more or less they are all fairly equal with each other, but survivability edges out bandwidth because total throughput is higher)

 

Pre 1.2 - Competitive play / premades

 

Operative > Merc >>>>> Sorc

[pathiss]

So the game isn't broken for pre-mades...but the pre-mades left because the game was broken...??

 

Lack of end game content, completely failure of the engine to manage open world PvP, and failed oRvR design/concept/implementation.

[pathiss]

I just read through Pathiss' post history. Don't waste your time. LOL He will not get it.

 

Please DO read through my post history. I know exactly what I am talking about, and all the ad hom attacks in the world wont change it.

 

You want to attack something, attack the points I made instead of your lameass attempt to attack me instead.

 

Edit: Of course I am not expecting it, because it is very obvious that you have no clue about PvP.

Edited April 24, 2012 by pathiss

[cerberias]

As someone who plays Commando and Scoundrel healers - Scoundrel is by far the more powerful when it comes to pvp. If someone ignores my Scound I can pump out more healing than my Trooper by far due to a more efficient rotation (UWM -> EM can be cast for 14/17 seconds spamming, and still be resource neutral, trooper can spam for 3.5/8, with an extra 2 seconds every 16). Scoundrels also perform better when pressured due to a plethora of instant cast heals, and the added benefit of HoT's to heal through CC's. Troopers have an instant cast heal on an 18 second cooldown, a very small instant cast AoE heal on a 6 second cooldown, a fairly high resource cost reactive heal which heals for very little (about one stack of SRM) and a heal which can't be used on themselves which heals one target for about 400 per GCD. Troopers get locked out hard if they get pressured, as they do very little healing in comparison to the Scoundrel unless they're standing still, but the kicker is that Scoundrels will still do more healing when standing still than the Commando can aswell.

[Aaoogaa]

Alot of information in here...let me start by saying I don't want ops nerfed. I want the pvp balance of healers to be looked at. Sorcs are easily soloable by myself or the sent..they are in the worst shape for pvp healing atm. We actually feel bad for some of the pre 1.2 sorcs that were amazing that now, same players, are free kills due to the ability to kill them in one 4 second CC. It's just sad.

 

BH/CMs are in not much better shape. The sentinel I run with can shut down any cast they have....if they pop bubble we CC them through it and kill them while bubbled. If they don't he just interrupts them and controls them while I blow a hole in them. They have no more survivability than a sorc with a bubble up.

 

Ops can remove sent snare since it is physical...the amount of CC they have keeps them going or allows them to get seperation long enough to get healed back up. Cycling their defensive cooldowns means they can negate or remove much of the burst damage incoming. They are by far the more resilient healers in the game...we kill them and we shut them down but the other healers are sooooo far behind ops/scoundrels right now in PVP it isn't fair. I feel that if sage/sorc, CM/BG were on par with ops then balance would be restored in PVP.

 

Someone mentioned guard...yeah it adds survivability but a healer and a tank cannot take on 2 dps and win...it may take us 15 to 20 seconds but they still don't stand a chance. Someone mentioned 2 healers...unless it is 2 ops healers then it does not matter. We can blow up any 2 non-ops healers and if the second healer is an op weput pressure on the op healer to get the heals focused on him...I switch and put 5 stacks of grav round on the other and then cryo the initial healer and target switch with the sent to blow up the second healer.

 

Full disclosure, I was a CM healer pre 1.2. I was pretty good, not great sititng between 400k to 600k healing per voidstar and able to stay alive without a guard through smart play. Post 1.2 300k is a good night and 400k was pretty unreachable. I did not feel that the spec was viable any longer. I have respecced gunnery and the sent I run with is very good. We understand the roles we play when pvping togeather...he controls the target and shuts them down while I blow them up. We save our CCs for the kill and communicate over vent for incoming burst. We cut through healers without much effort unless it is a well played ops healer...yes, they die...but it takes the two of us out of the fight for a good deal of time compared to any other healer in the game.

[polopopoo]

So they do have cooldowns, just not ones you think they should have. For a tracer/grav spec trying to kill something that is healing and moving away from you with a stationary attack is pretty much impossible. Mobility rules in pvp, in every game. Burning a comm/bh healer down is a joke, dps just stand in place doing there rotation and interrupting everything cast. He will either die or get heat starved very quickly. Sorc's if rooted when sprinting are dead. Ops are the only healer with survivability thanks to their mobility. Not overpowered, but the only healer balanced in pvp atm. Edited April 25, 2012 by Trineda
removed quote

[cerberias]

Good luck getting a Scoundrel/Op healer to 30% without a stun unless its 2+ people on me. Good luck taking down a Scoundrel healer past the 30% threshold with a guard/aoe taunt on him - they scale the best with guard by far due to the way HoT's work and their sub 30% threshold. I run with about 19k health on my scoundrel and with someone peeling off me I can make sure a lot of people do very little in the fight. Try kiting on the trooper see how long that lasts.

 

Also, Scoundrel healers cooldowns are amazing, a free full cleanse every minute? Which also stops execute style moves? Yes please. Save it for sub 30% against a mara (or three) and laugh as their finishers all get dodged. Its hard to use but if used properly can save you a hell of a lot of damage. The shield is pretty useless but I also save this for sub 30% to give a bit of breathing room for the spammed EM's. Trooper cooldown is fine, 2 min cooldown 25% less damage and immunity to interrupts.. doesn't stop people stunning you, or just continuing to burn you down with a healing debuff on you. Its only OP against bads who don't understand how it works.

Edited April 25, 2012 by cerberias