Pop Zen before or after burns?

[blazerSERVE]

I don't understand your math. Where do you get the number 4 from?

 

If you're being attacked, Rebuke is up for half the fight. It continuously refreshes because you're being attacked, up to the 30 second maximum, so it's up for 30 seconds at a time. The CD on it is 60 seconds. So it's up for half the fight (again, for those fights where you're taking damage-- and yes, getting hit with an AOE on a boss fight DOES refresh Rebuke).

 

During the time that it's up, it deals damage every 1.5 seconds, assuming you're being continuously attacked or taking continuous damage from an AOE. Obviously that's a best-case scenario, but you were claiming that 4 was the absolute maximum, so we need to consider best-case.

 

Every time it deals damage, you have a 50% chance (with only a single skill point) or 100% chance (with two skill points) of gaining focus, but you can't gain focus more than once in 3 seconds, which is why I only go with a single

point-- the 2nd point seems like it would be wasted much of the time.

 

So in a single 30 seconds stretch, Rebuke could fire 20 times (if you were constantly being attacked), and best caseyou'd gain 10 focus. So that's 10 focus in 30 seconds (and also 10 focus in 60 seconds, since for the next 30seconds Rebuke is down).

 

Is my math off? If so, where?

 

Your math is not off, my understanding of rebukes refresh was off lol. Thts my bad. I seem to have mistook "but this effect cannot last more" for "but this effect cannot occur more". That's how I came up with four, but since rebuke last

for a max of 30 sec like u said, then yes you will be getting 10 extra focus every minute(if the Probability gods are on your side tht is). This talent is lookin more viable, ima try it out and see how the focus generation is. Thanx for the clarification.

Edited April 26, 2012 by blazerSERVE

[andrew_b_gross]

Your math is not off, my understanding of rebukes refresh was off lol. Thts my bad. I seem to have mistook "but this effect cannot last more" for "but this effect cannot occur more". That's how I came up with four, but since rebuke last

for a max of 30 sec like u said, then yes you will be getting 10 extra focus every minute(if the Probability gods are on your side tht is). This talent is lookin more viable, ima try it out and see how the focus generation is. Thanx for the clarification.

 

No worries. My experience is it's very useful for doing dailies, as you're always being attacked; and it's very useful on trash pulls, where you're often being attacked; but it's only useful on some of the bos fights, and even then not to the same degree. Basically, you can't live through a boss attacking you constantly, so Rebuke isn't actually firing every 1.5 seconds on boss fights. Still, there are plenty of boss fights with AOE that comes out fairly regularly, so it feels to me as if it still generates a reasonable amount of focus in those fights.

[Moutlael]

Why not one point in Jedi Crusader and only two in Dual Wield Mastery? Isn't the extra focus worth more than the paltry 12% on off-hand attacks?

 

Why would you not want to keep the 3 points in Dual Wield Mastery and move the 1 point from Swelling Winds in the Focus Tree over to Jedi Crusader? I'm leveling my Knight as we speak and am looking for rhyme and reason for when i finish my talent build.

[Reinholt]

You've likely read that you should ideally pop Zen after putting three stacks of OS on your target. This would mean popping it after you start your burns.

 

ALWAYS THIS or else you just gimped your damage heavily

[blazerSERVE]

Why would you not want to keep the 3 points in Dual Wield Mastery and move the 1 point from Swelling Winds in the Focus Tree over to Jedi Crusader? I'm leveling my Knight as we speak and am looking for rhyme and reason for when i finish my talent build.

 

I put one point in swelling winds because I had 1 point left over after filling up all my talents, so I had a lot of choices to choose from, but after Andrews post, I did what you pointed out. Took a point from swelling and put it into Jedi Crusader, therefore I don't lose that full dual wield mastery talent.

[khsolo]

No worries. My experience is it's very useful for doing dailies, as you're always being attacked; and it's very useful on trash pulls, where you're often being attacked; but it's only useful on some of the bos fights, and even then not to the same degree. Basically, you can't live through a boss attacking you constantly, so Rebuke isn't actually firing every 1.5 seconds on boss fights. Still, there are plenty of boss fights with AOE that comes out fairly regularly, so it feels to me as if it still generates a reasonable amount of focus in those fights.

 

If rebuke lasts for 30 secs then at 50% the most focus it will generate will be 5

 

30 secs, the effect happens every 3 secs so thats 10 times, for 10 times at 50% its juts 5 focus if you are lucky, you might get more or less

 

You can get 10 focus if you place 2 ability points AND rebuke is being refreshed up to the maximum duration of 30 secs

 

Think my math is right, if not feel free to correct me

[andrew_b_gross]

Deleted. Edited April 27, 2012 by andrew_b_gross

[blazerSERVE]

If rebuke lasts for 30 secs then at 50% the most focus it will generate will be 5

 

30 secs, the effect happens every 3 secs so thats 10 times, for 10 times at 50% its juts 5 focus if you are lucky, you might get more or less

 

You can get 10 focus if you place 2 ability points AND rebuke is being refreshed up to the maximum duration of 30 secs

 

Think my math is right, if not feel free to correct me

 

Your missing the fact tht your rebuke is firing off every 1.5 second for that full 30 sec, so you have a 50% every 1.5 seconds to gain 1 focus if you have 1 point in jedi crusader. However that effect can only happen every 3 sec so this just comes down to probability.

 

Basically, for every 3 sec of tht 30 you you have a 50% to generate focus. Tht translates into having 10 full chances to generate 1 focus. So the max you can get is 10 and the least is 0.

 

With 2 points in Jedi crusader, you Will get 10 focus.

 

These situations are hypothetical and based off of being constantly attacked for tht full 30 sec period

Edited April 27, 2012 by blazerSERVE

[khsolo]

Your missing the fact tht your rebuke is firing off every 1.5 second for that full 30 sec, so you have a 50% every 1.5 seconds to gain 1 focus if you have 1 point in jedi crusader. However that effect can only happen every 3 sec so this just comes down to probability.

 

Basically, for every 3 sec of tht 30 you you have a 50% to generate focus. Tht translates into having 10 full chances to generate 1 focus. So the max you can get is 10 and the least is 0.

 

With 2 points in Jedi crusader, you Will get 10 focus.

 

These situations are hypothetical and based off of being constantly attacked for tht full 30 sec period

 

Exactly but only if you have 2 points in the ability you will get 10 focus and only if rebuke its being refreshed to 30 secs, having only 1 point in the ability is a waste imo cause you "could" get 5 focus for the 50% chance giving the probability, so 5 focus over a spam of 30 secs is pretty low really

 

So you either have 2 points in the ability or none but having just one seems like a waste of an ability point

[Ovan_Oh-One]

Well you play wrong, because Merc Slash has 66% chance to reset the cauterize cooldown.

 

So : OS > ZS > Caut > MS > Zen.

 

RTFM.

 

Hmmm. Interesting, did a few parses prioritizing that and I'm averaging in the higher 1400s. Barely pushing 1500.

Which is pretty much the same as what I had before.

 

Probably missing something, my gear isn't as optimized as it should be.

 

EDIT: Just got my Rakata chest, finally. Parsed myself right after, BIIIGGG difference.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Ovan_Oh-One

[thepilk]

Exactly but only if you have 2 points in the ability you will get 10 focus and only if rebuke its being refreshed to 30 secs, having only 1 point in the ability is a waste imo cause you "could" get 5 focus for the 50% chance giving the probability, so 5 focus over a spam of 30 secs is pretty low really

 

So you either have 2 points in the ability or none but having just one seems like a waste of an ability point

 

Im a big proponent of only putting 1 point in Crusdaer, to enable the chance and let the probability play out. Rebuke generating focus is nice, but its never going to be your "main source" of focus so it doesnt need to be 100%. I see it as bonus, as i never have focus issues even with 0 points invested in it. 2 points is too heavy of an investment in an ability that is not under your control, and theres so many other things worth putting points in that are proactive rather than reactive. Its important to remember that getting 10 focus is nice, but youre bar only holds 12, so unless you somehow spend yourself bone dry a lot of it will be wasted if you have ANY banked up already

 

If we had a shortage of other focus generators, or were reliant on it as a primary source, then Id be all about 2 point investment. However its not needed and I often find my focus bar maxed out with just 1 point. So I feel like 2 is overkill.

Edited April 28, 2012 by thepilk