Worthless in PvP? (Sad Ironfist Player)

[seabromd]

So, what's different since 1.2? I used to feel I could go toe to toe with people, put out a bit of damage, and soak up quite a lot... but since 1.2 I've felt totally worthless in PvP. Anyone else experiencing this?

 

Essentially, I put out pitiful damage (somehow felt like more before...) and I seem to get absolutely slaughtered by anyone. Heck, I used to at least give Sentinels a run for their money... but now they rip through me.

 

What gives? (and I'm wearing almost all BM Combat Tech + a shield)

[Fredcat]

Well, with the expertise scaling boost tank specs in DPS gear are probably a lot less effective. I'd switch to a DPS spec for now and start collecting a BM supercommando set for the extra DR.

 

For the record I've always been either full ST or IF in the supercommando set, because I always expected BioWare to nerf the tank in DPS gear thing. Now that you can just buy the gear I'm working on a combat tech set, but not to run IF. BTW full ST kicks *** in the supercommando set now. Very hard to kill and respectable damage for a tank.

[seabromd]

So did they change it that now our defensive stats actually work in PvP? I always stayed away from Supercommando cause everyone said it was worthless. Not the case anymore?

[KBSIP]

he didn't say get tank sets, he said go dps spec. The defensive stats are still pretty weak (tech and force being unavoidable and unshieldable). Edited April 22, 2012 by KBSIP

[seabromd]

You obviously didn't read his post... he said go DPS spec with what I have, and then collect the Supercommando set and go back to IF/ST.

 

As I stated, I'm aware of the limits of mitigation in PvP which was why I was asking him, based on his experience, why he thought getting Supercommando was a good idea.

[Ossos]

What has happened to the PVP Tank build has essentially broken that respective type of play/class/spec. Reason being is that to correct it, they would have to increase the amount of mitigation that the current mitigation stats provide. Essentially, the DPS mudflation broke the specs.

 

Now if they go back and increase the amount of mitigation we get to align it with the dps mudflation, we then become way more powerful PvE tanks. Ultimately, PvE content is broken due to PvP dynamics. This is one of the biggest things Blizzard has wrestled with in WoW. It took them years to get it right, so I wouldn't hold my breath with BW. I think the likelihood of PvP Tanks having to either spec DPS to compete, or re-roll, is close to 100%.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Ossos

[Fredcat]

You obviously didn't read his post... he said go DPS spec with what I have, and then collect the Supercommando set and go back to IF/ST.

 

As I stated, I'm aware of the limits of mitigation in PvP which was why I was asking him, based on his experience, why he thought getting Supercommando was a good idea.

 

Yes that's what I was saying. I think it's good to get the SC set IF your going to play a tank role as the 20% extra DR seems worth it to me. Mitigation doesn't work on every attack, but IMO it works enough to notice. (I did experiment with both champ sets pre 1.2.)

 

It's been a long time since I've seen a more durable tank then me in a WZ. If I guard a healer and we stick together we are very hard to move off a node. Damage isn't bad for a tank either. I regularly break 200k and have broken 300k on several occasions since 1.2.

 

Personally I cant wait for dual specs so we can easily switch between DPS and tanking roles. The gear is easy enough to get now, so we'll be able to do a lot more experimenting to find the build/gear combo that best suites our playstyle.

 

Edit - Just got home and screen shoted my exact stats, no buffs except Ion canister and hunters boon. Judge for yourselves whether you think the survivability of the SC set is better then tanking in the CT set. Note shield chance goes up another 4% if you keep the new skill heat screen up, which helps in venting heat.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68384843@N05/6957986738/in/photostream

Edited April 22, 2012 by Fredcat

[seabromd]

Why do you feel you need the SC set to pull off your purpose though?

 

My understanding from the Taugrim thread was that because the defense stats have limited value, you might as well go in DPS gear and thus guarantee a bit of added output.

[whitewalk]

heh...i tried to understand some of the changes they did to us and expertise through this thread but didnt understand quite much...my english are not that good...but i think i understood the main idea...but i disagree on smth :

 

first of all im tank spec with eliminator full BM set and combatech WH mainhand and a BM shield (bought the eliminator set due to the broken combatech set bonus some months ago), after the 1.2 patch the only diference i saw was that my dps numbers went about 15% up and my death from above 15% down plus 15% less AOE, i dont use that much aoe so that didnt realy bothered me, but in deference of what i read here, after 1.2 i can melt everyone with even more ease now, on every class...even healers that i had some deficulty before and i mean BM set duels.

 

The only deficulty i face after 1.2 are with some maras and jugs (sorry dont remeber the republic name of the classes ) that after they jump me i`m dead in like 2-3 secs leaving me no time to react and when i hit em is like i hit a wall (still dont know how they do that, but still are some spacific players about the 5% i meet of those classes in WZs)

 

I dont know if it is the fact that i use the eliminator set and not the combatech (even tho i was about to take the combatech WH set now)

[Agooz]

heh...i tried to understand some of the changes they did to us and expertise through this thread but didnt understand quite much...my english are not that good...but i think i understood the main idea...but i disagree on smth :

 

first of all im tank spec with eliminator full BM set and combatech WH mainhand and a BM shield (bought the eliminator set due to the broken combatech set bonus some months ago), after the 1.2 patch the only diference i saw was that my dps numbers went about 15% up and my death from above 15% down plus 15% less AOE, i dont use that much aoe so that didnt realy bothered me, but in deference of what i read here, after 1.2 i can melt everyone with even more ease now, on every class...even healers that i had some deficulty before and i mean BM set duels.

 

The only deficulty i face after 1.2 are with some maras and jugs (sorry dont remeber the republic name of the classes ) that after they jump me i`m dead in like 2-3 secs leaving me no time to react and when i hit em is like i hit a wall (still dont know how they do that, but still are some spacific players about the 5% i meet of those classes in WZs)

 

I dont know if it is the fact that i use the eliminator set and not the combatech (even tho i was about to take the combatech WH set now)

 

I see absolutely ZERO reason to use Eliminator set if you are running a full ST spec. Actually ONLY Pyros would take Eliminator as an option. Regardless of the old carbonize bug, you still should have went supercommando or combat tech.

 

That said, whatever difficulties you are facing right now in WZ will not be impacted if you switch to a different set. I find it very hard to believe that you are "melting" all ACs (except juggs and marau) in a tank spec. If you were, you wouldnt be dying in 2-3sec from a jug/marauder anyways. So I am not sure which part you are actually exaggerating. Is it the "melting" or the "dying in 2-3sec"? As a PT Tank, you actually can last the longest against dps Juggs and Marauders. You're not going to kill them as easily they would kill you, but after all, you're a tank.

 

If you are having issues "killing" any class, that's because you're not specced DPS, not your gear set. You want to be more effective at killing, then change to Pyro, or to a lesser degree AP. If you want to stay as a tank, then focus on your role, which is guarding, defending objectives, peeling off and CCing foes on Healers, and Score in huttball

[seabromd]

I see absolutely ZERO reason to use Eliminator set if you are running a full ST spec. Actually ONLY Pyros would take Eliminator as an option. Regardless of the old carbonize bug, you still should have went supercommando or combat tech.

 

That said, whatever difficulties you are facing right now in WZ will not be impacted if you switch to a different set. I find it very hard to believe that you are "melting" all ACs (except juggs and marau) in a tank spec. If you were, you wouldnt be dying in 2-3sec from a jug/marauder anyways. So I am not sure which part you are actually exaggerating. Is it the "melting" or the "dying in 2-3sec"? As a PT Tank, you actually can last the longest against dps Juggs and Marauders. You're not going to kill them as easily they would kill you, but after all, you're a tank.

 

If you are having issues "killing" any class, that's because you're not specced DPS, not your gear set. You want to be more effective at killing, then change to Pyro, or to a lesser degree AP. If you want to stay as a tank, then focus on your role, which is guarding, defending objectives, peeling off and CCing foes on Healers, and Score in huttball

 

Well and this is my point. Pre-1.2 I used to feel confident that vs most melee class I could stand up a lot longer than they'd like. I used to feel fairly solid 1v1 against most people (between interrupts, stuns, and mitigation).

Now when Maras jump me I watch as my healthbar vanishes, while I barely get them to 50% (and this is without them firing off the many oh sh*t buttons they have).

 

Just trying to see if it's just me... or if there was some underlying change.

 

You're feeling that being in Combat Tech shouldn't be a problem?

[Agooz]

Well and this is my point. Pre-1.2 I used to feel confident that vs most melee class I could stand up a lot longer than they'd like. I used to feel fairly solid 1v1 against most people (between interrupts, stuns, and mitigation).

Now when Maras jump me I watch as my healthbar vanishes, while I barely get them to 50% (and this is without them firing off the many oh sh*t buttons they have).

 

Just trying to see if it's just me... or if there was some underlying change.

 

You're feeling that being in Combat Tech shouldn't be a problem?

 

No it is not YOU. Expertise changed things in PvP now. Someone with 1000experise has a 20% damage bonus, AND 16% damage mitigation. It is a little harder playing a tank in pvp these days.

[Delease]

Ok just hit 50 recently and seeing how i am running the pre 1.2 iron fist spec, I should still go for the Sup Commando BM gear?

 

Actually looking to get out of the IF spec & move to something inbeween full dps & tank. NORS spec any good? If so then which gear should I shoot for then?

 

Asking because i noticed that none of the BM gear has any +shield on it

Edited April 23, 2012 by Delease

[Agooz]

Ok just hit 50 recently and seeing how i am running the pre 1.2 iron fist spec, I should still go for the Sup Commando BM gear?

 

Actually looking to get out of the IF spec & move to something inbeween full dps & tank. NORS spec any good? If so then which gear should I shoot for then?

 

Asking because i noticed that none of the BM gear has any +shield on it

 

Getting the right PvP gear and have it fit your playstyle, can take a while. It is not just buying a certain piece and that's it. I would recommend Combat Tech, since it would fit a tank spec OR an AP spec., and if you decide to go pyro then it is not a complete loss. That said, you want to change certain mods/enhancements on whichever gear you end up with.

[Schwiggiddy]

I was in the same boat as you, combat tech set iron fist. Iron fist spec is basically dead. Full ST is giving as good or better damage with much better survivability.

 

I would suggest trying out the Maverick build. I gets a nice boost from combat tech and puts out respectable damage while providing decent survivability (HO!) Check out that thread in this forum.