PVP: DPS Need Not Apply

[Superawesomerman]

Again this is the whole point why healers are getting abandoned. You fail to grasp that every role is needed and cannot be equal. If everyone is equal then that means everyone is interchangeable. Then why play a tank or why play a healer because overwhelming dps is what matters.

 

This is why teamwork is so important. You kill the healer who is making your life harder,who is protected by the tank, while the dps is killing your healers your tanks and your dps. Everyone has a needed and important job and everyone feels useful. If I can only heal your dmg then there's no purpose and no point. I might as well go dps.

 

Not saying life is perfect, but healers will always be necessary. One could argue tanks are not, but good tanks, like good anything, can make or break.

 

it feels like youre not here for discussion, only validation. Exiting this thread.

[Anbokr]

Healers should die. The advantage of having healers is having the that extra 30+ seconds of life. Remember, healers respawn too (in 10-20 seconds). This game isn't perma-death so surviving longer = winning games. If healers with guard take 4 coordinated dps on vent target switching and praying to the RNG gods then the game is unwinnable and unfun. If it takes 1-2 dps to take down an unguarded healer and 2-4 to take down a guarded healer, the game is pretty balanced with healers being able to turn the tide of battle, but not completely dominate it. I'd say were right at that target point. Edited April 21, 2012 by Anbokr

[Winkywinky]

OP....the problem isnt healers being nerfed or dps getting buffed its that survivability was completely destroyed in 1.2...thats it.. nothing more..

 

IF we had the same survivability as per 1.2 with the healing nerfs of 1.2 then every thing would be better then this crap fest that is 1.2..

 

people need to focus on the REAL problem...

[Jetflair]

I disagree with OP what comes to healing. Healing is the most powerful factor in PVP.

Its easiest way to victory. Enough good healing and medicore players and dps will shine against better players.

Healing is the only factor that can raise players without skill to victory against better opponents. Good dps is easily negated by even better healing.

 

Healers are also dilemma for opponents. If you attack healer and he heals himself somebody else can attack you freely. If you attack somebody else healer heals the target.

 

Healers are the most decisive factor in pvp because they are impossible to ignore and many times end to be the factor that decides victory or defeat.

 

Thats why they can't be too hard to kill ever. If they are it simply will mean many players learn that there is no point in pvp. When you see the healer X and you can go to drink coffee because you never get that healer down.

And if you can't get him down how on earth you can get any target he heals down either?

 

Pointless to play then.

 

If you think this way you start to understand why the changes were made. Exactly similar changes were once made in WoW pvp too btw.

[Superawesomerman]

Sorry, one last thing. Healers are support. They are secondary, now and always.

 

Good dps and poor healing will always trump bad dps and good healing.

[Tershius]

OP....the problem isnt healers being nerfed or dps getting buffed its that survivability was completely destroyed in 1.2...thats it.. nothing more..

 

IF we had the same survivability as per 1.2 with the healing nerfs of 1.2 then every thing would be better then this crap fest that is 1.2..

 

people need to focus on the REAL problem...

 

I do agree that with the changes they did to the gear with increasing the dmg done with expertise but not having the dmg reduction and healing increase follow along did greatly hurt pvp. losing 10% healing in extreme cases,

[Tershius]

Sorry, one last thing. Healers are support. They are secondary, now and always.

 

Good dps and poor healing will always trump bad dps and good healing.

 

and that line of thinking is why good healers would rather go dps because they feel like second class pvpers in this game.

[denpic]

I'm of the belief that as of 1.2 healers are balanced around having a pocket tank

Gaurding and taunting

 

Without it your Mincemeat

[Caelrie]

Sorry, one last thing. Healers are support. They are secondary, now and always.

 

Good dps and poor healing will always trump bad dps and good healing.

 

"Support" hasn't been a real role in an MMORPG in fifteen years. Give it up.

[LoKiei]

and that line of thinking is why good healers would rather go dps because they feel like second class pvpers in this game.

 

If you don't like healing don't and FYI pure DPS classes don't even get a choice if they want to heal.

 

I'm tired of healers complaining, their argument ammounts to "hurrdurr I die in warzones now which is not fair!".

[Enexemander]

and that line of thinking is why good healers would rather go dps because they feel like second class pvpers in this game.

 

Second class is exactly how I feel when I'm healing on my mercenary. I have multiple 50s decked out pretty well in pvp gear. On my tank, I can jump into a fight and FEEL the tide shifting as the opposing team loses damage against mine. On my sniper, I can see the tide shift as I take out target after target while denying specific areas. On my healer? Eh, I keep some dps alive a little longer, but it still seems like I don't have that much of a contribution to the team's success.

 

I just don't feel that I can, personally, affect the tide of the battles on my healer nearly as much as on my other characters.

[iiell]

If a DPS could take down a healer, then there would be NO POINT to a healer.

 

Flawed logic.

[Enexemander]

Flawed logic.

 

I don't think so. If, in a straight up fight 1v1, a dps can beat a healer then the healer is an invalid choice for a warzone. That spot would much better be spent on another dps class (especially one with a taunt).

[durvas]

I'm of the belief that as of 1.2 healers are balanced around having a pocket tank

Gaurding and taunting

 

Without it your Mincemeat

 

Of course, or rateds would end up being hilariously stupid.

[Girltank]

The whole argument seems to ride on the belief that a DPS can do as much dps as a healer given equal skill/gear. If this were true there would be no reason to play a healer.

 

My main is a healer sage and sure with people on me, heck even one dps I usually don't survive long to do much healing but even being chased I generally do dramatically more healing than the top DPS in the WZ, I do well over that given a good team that protects me or a bad team that ignores me.

[Girltank]

I don't think so. If, in a straight up fight 1v1, a dps can beat a healer then the healer is an invalid choice for a warzone. That spot would much better be spent on another dps class (especially one with a taunt).

 

Healers are given long casting times so that while not interrupted they provide significantly more healing than a dps of similiar gear/skill can provide while at the same time, a similar geared/skilled dps could (taking advantage of long casting times not afforded dps) have a chance of taking down a healer. *this is close to fair and is currently the case imo*

 

what is unfair in my mind is that DPS want to be able to take down a healer without help from their team yet a healer cannot take down a dps without help from their team (assuming=skill/gear).

[Ravashakk]

In regards to balance, a healer vs dps should be a stalemate if all variables are equal like skill and gear. Ideally, a dps should put out enough pressure that the healer can't afford to do much dmg. If the healer is putting out dmg at the cost of healing himself, he is leaving himself exposed. What most ppl see is an imbalance of gear and/or skill that culminates in a healer looking Godlike. If any dps could look in the general direction of a healer and make them collapse, there would be no point in playing a healer. We need to be able to survive for a bit if more than 1 gets on us without help from our team. Even in skilled teamplay, humans take time to respond. With TTK now, it doesn't take my focus to eclipse that reaction time.

 

I would like to point out that a geared powertech generally does almost as much dmg as I can heal on my bm geared healer. How is that fair? He doesn't even have to time interrupts or cooldowns. Just has to do his dps rotation and he will win through attrition.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Ravashakk

[jdi_knght]

Second class is exactly how I feel when I'm healing on my mercenary. I have multiple 50s decked out pretty well in pvp gear. On my tank, I can jump into a fight and FEEL the tide shifting as the opposing team loses damage against mine. On my sniper, I can see the tide shift as I take out target after target while denying specific areas. On my healer? Eh, I keep some dps alive a little longer, but it still seems like I don't have that much of a contribution to the team's success.

 

I just don't feel that I can, personally, affect the tide of the battles on my healer nearly as much as on my other characters.

 

To be fair here, your healer's a merc.

 

The healing mercs I've played (beta and a lowbie on live) never gave the feeling of "turning the tide". Very strong in smaller skirmishes (a 2v3 or 3v4 situation) where the single-target strength comes into play, and decent huttball-carrier support, but... that's about it. This is pre-1.2 anyway so maybe they don't fare as well in those situations as they did before.

 

My sage on the other hand - often get the tide-turning feeling. The IA healer... don't remember since I didn't play one seriously since beta (wasn't a fan of the playstyle). But they got some much-needed love this patch - don't know if they get the "turn the tide" feeling or not though.

[falcon_Xtreme]

1.2 motivated me to finish an alt because healing is ruined.. 50 sin tank spec. couple bits of bm gear already. wz's are face roll now.

 

I agree with your post entirely. there is zero reason to play my sorc and bh as full heal spec now. next time if i ever log them in, they are going dps. whats the ratio for healers crying foul compared to healers loving the changes? im guessing 100:3 in favor of hating it (dps you dont get a say) dps/tank classes are far easier to play than pre 1.2 healers were it took me less than 5 days play time to get a sin assassin to 50, nothing hard about dps at all.

 

same logic applys for pvp run around mash buttons . boom 19 medals. this is tough going.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Trineda
removed quote

[Keadil]

A healer at this point is nothing but a medpac. It's time we all reroll. You can't convince the crazy dps crowd, and everyone else is on board. The simple fact is that a healer is WORTHLESS now in a wz. Pre 1.2 they were not ungodly , because idiots and only idiots lumped them in with the hybrids. A pure healer is not OP and never has been against anything but bad dps.

[ProfessorWalsh]

There is a thing called diversity and it's a wonderful thing and one thing calls out very clearly by all of the posts by DPS that the game is now fair because they can go one on one with a healer is this: A) you have never been a healer, B) you don't know how to play well with others and C) you don't understand how each role is involved in PVP. Most of the healers who think "everything is fine nothing is ruined", how many of you roll with premades? How many of you solo queue with PUGS? There will always be a person who thinks no matter how broken a system is that its "working as intended" but for the vast majority of healers this is not the case.

 

A) I have.

B) I do.

C) I do understand how each role is involved in PVP.

 

I do think the game is much more balanced post 1.2 than it ever was pre-1.2. Pre-1.2 a Healer wasn't just a healer it was a granter of complete immortality if the healer was any good. The only way to deal with them was to send a minimum of two DPS classes against them. If you didn't do that then, if the healer was any good, you couldn't kill it and you darn sure couldn't kill anyone else if the healer wasn't locked down.

 

Bad healers, and people who are lying, will claim that 1v1 they were easily killed as a healer pre-1.2. My answer to that is:

 

"No you weren't."

 

You could be killed, yes, and it took forever and was frustrating. You were harder to kill than a Tank and that is kind of supposed to be the point of a tank.

 

DPS needs to understand this. If a DPS could take down a healer, then there would be NO POINT to a healer.

 

Yes there is. Healers heal. Even if a healer is only slowing the rate at which someone dies then they are doing their job and being important. People scream that Sentinels are overpowered because they can stave off death for 5 seconds with Guarded by the Force. Delaying death for even a few seconds is the point of a healer and as Guarded by the Force has shown us, it is a very potent weapon for your team to have indeed.

 

I'm sorry, but DPS cry wolf, loaded scenarios are just pathetic, show no real application any game mechanics and just show me how little dmg they did.

 

Just like many healers are crying wolf right now. Insane cries of, "A Sentinel killed me in three shots with Master Strike!" or "I am in full BM gear and was 1 shotted by a DPS class!"

 

Healers don't die in seconds if they are smart, they use CC to save their butts, that is what CC is for. This isn't a matter of DPS doing too much damage, it is a matter of Healers simply having a hard time adapting to a new environment. I have seen some of the healers that have and they are doing fine now.

 

I find it laughable that DPS dare to say in 1.2 Work as team to protect the healer Dude. Let me tell you what every healer who reads that thinks. You sir are a complete moron.

 

A lone DPS, not even a Sentinel, will kill a guarded healer very quickly. So yes, working together as a team to protect a healer is a valid strategy.

 

And I want to make one other point. Just how badly healing has taken it between the legs. PVP Trauma buff?? Who in Bioware thought this was a good idea. Not only does expertise now favor HANDS DOWN DPS, but now healers do THIRTY PERCENT less healing with people recently in pvp. Imagine being a DPS and getting a debuff to do 30% less dmg. Of course DPS come back with "yeah 30% less healing and they still are doing great in pvp" False. I don't know if you've noticed among all your 5k crit medals and face roll laughing when healers try to heal your target and hes still dying, that healers are NOT doing good.

 

You do know that against any Heavy armor wearing class (Bounty Hunters, Juggernauts, Troopers) that Sentinels have a 20% debuff on their damage by default. The Force forbid if they are in a tanking stance, at which point that debuff goes to 40% Did you know that Sorcerers and Assassins can reduce our damage by 100% with their bubble? Did you know that a root might as well be a 100% debuff against a Sentinel? Yeah we deal with tons of damage mitigation. A few seconds of slightly reduced healing won't kill you.

 

Lastly I want to bring up a point that seemingly has been avoided by so many DPS on these forums. I want to share a hidden, deep, dark, secret that is blatent you have not heard. I'll tell you. No need to thank me. Its called GET A HEALER ON YOUR TEAM You say having 3 healers on one side is broken. THEN GET THREE HEALERS ON YOUR SIDE. Last time i checked they didn't have a rule against having too many healers in a warfront. Why is it the healers problem that because they have diversity on their team and you do not that healers need to be punished for it. "oh, but they queue together", then find healers to queue with. Or better yet make a healer yourself. Maybe then you'd have perspective on what it feels like to be not be protected, see people run through fire, stand in acid, LOS your heals, not stun, use abilities, or cap points. Then maybe you wouldn't show just how biased, selfish, and misinformed you really are.

 

Brilliant! Get three overpowered classes of your own to counter their overpowered classes!

 

No. Getting more of the overpowered class isn't the solution, it never was.

 

Healers needed to be toned down, but what they got was their legs taken out from under them. I'm sorry, but I had more fun when I didn't spend half my time in the spawn area running back to the fight then being the healer that keeps the team in the action.

 

Once you learn to play a healer in 1.2 you will spend far less time in the spawn area, you just need to adapt and save your CC's for when you need to protect yourself instead of spamming them willy nilly.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Trineda
removed quote

[falcon_Xtreme]

Once you learn to play a healer in 1.2 you will spend far less time in the spawn area, you just need to adapt and save your CC's for when you need to protect yourself instead of spamming them willy nilly.

 

how many lvl 50 healers do you have?

[falcon_Xtreme]

Once you learn to play a healer in 1.2 you will spend far less time in the spawn area, you just need to adapt and save your CC's for when you need to protect yourself instead of spamming them willy nilly. how many lvl 50 healers do you have?

 

well? ...... none? thought so... so basicly your a "ive healed once before healer". funny thing about dps players who dont roll healing alts. they dont know what they are talking about. you simply dont understand where we are coming from because you have no idea.

Edited April 21, 2012 by falcon_Xtreme
colour changes for dramatic effect lol

[brentonj]

This game has essentially evolved into a zero skill damage fest.

 

Where the only hope of enjoying imbalanced game play is by throwing your life away, and grinding for hours on end. Giving you the best gear and survival chance.

[Ravashakk]

A lone DPS, not even a Sentinel, will kill a guarded healer very quickly. So yes, working together as a team to protect a healer is a valid strategy.

 

So a healer who dies very quickly with guard up to a lone dps is your idea of balance? You lost all credibility with that statement. When I meet someone like you, it makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills, despite the fact you are the the SUPREME minority.

 

Let's paint a picture....According to you, a healer spamming heals on himself to keep himself alive with guard (requires 2 ppl) against 1 dps is how the game should be. Think about that. A 1v2, and the healer should die despite have numbers. This doesn't sound off to you? Why would you EVER EVER EVER bring a healer? A dps is worth a tank and a healer to you. And that's with 1 dps on him. What happens to the healers not fortunate enough to have guard on them 24/7 that get 2 dps on them? They get vaporized before their team can peel/cc. And guess what? You can only peel/cc so much before resolve is full and those dps that want to get on your healer will have all the time in the world now to beat down your healer.