Any "Dirty Fighting" Scoundrels out there?

[paid_in_full]

Salutations fellow scoundrels.

Been lurking for some time and I noticed that there seemed to be a consensus among the group that Dirty Fighting is a bad/weak spec.

 

I'm really wondering why folks feel that way.

 

My TLDR version, is that Dirty Fighting has a lot more potential than folks give it credit. The initial burst damage is only marginally worse if you go "full-bore", by about 9% than a full Scrapper. On the other side of the coin you are gaining significant benefits to your DPS and are doing significantly more damage albeit over time but also to multiple enemies. If you're looking to roll a Scoundrel Dirty Fighting is definitely viable.

 

A bit of a background, I currently have a 50 Commando Healer as well as a few other toons in their 40s, but wanted to role another smuggler as my 40+ slinger was on another server. Wanting to pursue the same awesome class story line, but experience a different play style (I leveled as Gunnery for Commando) opted to go with scoundrel.

 

Yea, Scoundrel is the *Ish*.

Freakin' love this class and really, really enjoy playing it.

 

After getting brutalized by Scrapper Scoundrels in PVP pre-1.2 I initially decided to pursue a hybrid of Scrapper/Dirty Fighting 2/16/23

 

Early on and even after the 1.2 patch I was enjoying the play style. I actually was happy with the Sucker Punch changes as a lot of us fail to see a 33% cost decrease to a 10% damage increase, which ends up being pretty significant (1k dmg of sucker punch pre-patch for 30 energy netted us 2k damage, post patch the net was 2700 for 30 energy). When I got to about 30 though I noticed I was struggling in PVP. It really seemed that I would need to go more into Scrapper to get the Tier 5 and 6 benefits to make the build really worthwhile. That also seems to be the consensus here.

 

So I started crunching some numbers on DF, given that I really thought the DoTs that I initially wanted to include had the best potential to complement my burst. Well, I was really surprised by what I found.

 

Well, I respec'd and I have to say... I don't think I'll ever switch back.

 

Even with my gear being awful, literally it's 4, 5 and in some cases 8 levels lower (currently sitting at 39 with 1 purple 35 bracer and 1 33 purple belt) and an at level pistol, I'm consistently the top DPSer or in the top 3. Now I realize that this may come across as "chest beating", but I'm not intending it to be that way. My point is to merely illustrate the potential that this spec has and that I have good results even with bad and non-optimal equipment.

 

DF does have the means to burn down a target at close to the same clip as Scrapper and I'm honestly shocked that most think it's a bad spec.

 

A quick look at two similar rotations and the potential yields, will give you a general idea.

 

Please try to keep in mind these initial numbers were all not adjusted, and don't account for criticals or gear. There also maybe some math errors so feel free to double check me.

A typical Dirty Fighting (2/8/31) or "DoT-Chu Want Me Baby?" Rotation goes something like this.

Shoot First (1420 dmg / 17 energy)

+ Pugnacity (Consumes the Upper Hand for 6 energy a sec)

+ Hemorrhaging Blast (1524 damage / 0 energy)

+ Shrap Bomb (1416 damage / 20 energy / AoE) + (425 = 30% boost from HB)

+ Vital Shot (3315 dmg / 15 sec / 16 energy) + (995 = 30% boost from HB) + (663 for Mortal Wound) + (597 Browbeater)

+ Blaster Whip ( 962 damage / 15 energy)

+ Wounding Shot (994 dmg / 19 energy) + (365 per bleed effect (2x) + (109 x2 = 30% Boost from HB)

Additional Damage dealt after Initial bleeds are reapplied:

+ Lesser Shrap (212 dmg (3x if you splashed 3 targets) )

+ Lesser Vital (498 dmg)

 

* - the bleed effects are totals and have been divided into a single tick for my purposes. The base line of my calculations is 1 tick every 3 sec.

 

Burst Damage = 7,093 (with 9x chances for criticals)

Total Damage (after 30sec to a single target) = 13,970

Total Damage (after 30sec to 3x target) = 18,076

77(87) Energy spent (you get +10 for consuming Pug)

Pugnacity Up

 

Compare this to a standard opponent at 14k health (with no armor mitigation) and a base 25% chance(including No Holds Barred) to crit and a 100% modifier (so no additional modifiers).

+16% for Shoot First, so you have a 41% chance to get 2840 in your first volley so +1420

+12% for Bleed effects, so you have a 37% chance to crit out of 6x hits of 981 a piece and 7x-21x hits of 262 a piece. Let's say we are lucky and both crit on their first tick so +981+ 262

Between the 3x hits from Wounding shot and Blaster Whip, you have another 4x chances to crit at 25%, but let's just say one of the two Mortal Wound triggers crits. + 474

 

This would put your initial, and "conservative" rotation, at 10,230 initial Burst Damage w/ some fortunate crits.

Now I say conservative because you could throw Mortal Wound in there a 2nd time, instead of popping Pugnacity for an additional 1724 dmg while adding another MW trigger crit 474. (12,647 total dmg if that was the route you went)

 

However, doing so will burn all of your energy (103 cost) and require Cool Head up. Additionally, if you time it right, Mortal Wound could potentially trigger 4x from Nice Try and reapplied Vital & Shrap. (Which would be ridiculous)

 

Why this is important is once you surpass the 10,001 mark in damage to the above target, they then are in the > 30% sweet spot for an *additional* 15% damage from your already 30% buffed bleed effects. This would mean that the 10 subsequent Vital/Shrap/Mortal ticks would hit for 1128/301/529 vs 981/262/474 on a single target.

 

Let's just say that adds up to a lot.

 

On the other hand, let's compare this to a PVP Scrapper Build rotation.

Flechette Round (1032 dmg / 15 energy *essentially free*) + (93 dmg Browbeater)

+Shoot First (1420 dmg / 17 energy)

+Flechette Round(1032 dmg / 15 energy) + (93 dmg Browbeater)

+Sucker Punch (1060 dmg /10 Energy) + (42dmg Turn the Tables)

+Back Blast (1198 dmg / 5 Energy) + (48dmg Sawed Off) + (48 dmg Scrappy)

+Sabotage Charge (1343 dmg / 20 energy) + (183 dmg DoT)

+ Blaster Whip ( 962 damage / 15 energy) + (38dmg Scrappy)

+Sucker Punch (1060 dmg /10 Energy) + (42dmg Turn the Tables)

+ Flying Fists ( 310 dmg / free) + (12dmg Turn the Tables)

 

Burst Damage = 8800 (with 10 chances for criticals)

Total Damage (after 30sec to a single target) = 9,924

 

92(107) Energy Spent (regen should allow you to hit 100 before you have to use it initially)

 

Using the same 14k health opponent, and same base crit modifiers (25% & 100%)

+16% for Shoot First, so you have a 41% chance to get 2840, +30% Crit Damage so +1846

+16% for Back Blast, so you have a 41% chance to get 2588, +30% Crit Damage so +1682

As I went with 2x Mortal Wound triggers (smaller potential crits), let’s pick the 2x Flechette Bleed damages to crit, +30% Crit Damage so + 1342

 

This would put your initial Burst Damage as a Scrapper at 13,789.

 

Seems pretty clear and straight up right? 13,789 > 10,230 is a wide margin of almost 35% more damage. Even if you compare the aggressive version of Dirty Fighting, it’s still 13,789 > 12,647. Scrapper definitely has more burst capability than Dirty Fighter. In nearly identical circumstances, 7 abilities, and all of our energy consumed, it should be noted. The difference under these circumstances however isn’t as bad and is roughly only 9% worse.

 

The biggest difference between Dirty Fighting and Scrapper is the type of damages you are inflicting.

Bleed Damage is considered internal damage and from my understanding ignores AR. This is significant when fighting a Vanguard/Guardian.

 

For discussion sake, let's just say that we are facing an opponent with 14k health and who has a 20% AR.

The abilities that are affected by this 20% mitigation in damage are:

For DF, 4x abilities Hemorrhaging Blast, Shoot First, Blaster Whip and Mortal Wound (non-triggers)

For SC, 5x abilities Shoot First, Back Blast, Sabotage Charge(non-DoT), Sucker Punch, Blaster Whip… actually the only abilities that will not see a reduction in damage are Flechette and the Sabotage small DoT.

 

This does affect the total amount of damage to be compared and where the 30% Pen from Flechette comes in. The 20% AR will be effectively reduced to 14% with Scrapper, where as the Dirty Fighter is still looking at 20%. The initial Burst Numbers now look like:

SC =8800 down to 7653

DF = 6874 down to 5893

DF( aggressive) = 9,035 down to 7,856

 

With the above crit calculations as a base line:

SC = 13,789 down to 12,038

DF = 10,230 down to 8,965

DF (aggressive) = 12,647 down to 10,957

 

The point of all this is by no means to show that one spec is better than the other. In the end it will come down to play style preference. Both specs have circumstantially better abilities.

Scrapper:

- Initial Stun

- Healing and more regen from Pugnacity

- A root effect (Stopping Power)

- More Stealth (Flee the Scene)

 

Dirty Fighter:

- More DPS with DoTs

- Damage reduction against DoTs (Nice Try)

- A second Escape with Dirty Trickster

- Ranged attacks and more lax position criteria (Back blast or Shoot first requiring being behind the target)

[Aetou]

AOE damage builds will always score well in the charts, it's the nature of AOE damage. That doesn't make the majority of that damage useful.

 

Dirty Fighter:

- More DPS with DoTs

- Damage reduction against DoTs (Nice Try)

- A second Escape with Dirty Trickster

- Ranged attacks and more lax position criteria (Back blast or Shoot first requiring being behind the target)

 

Nice Try is a nice addition to Dirty Fighting but your other points aren't really valid. In particular, Dirty Fighting is not a ranged class - it still relies on Blaster Whip to be able to use Wounding Shot, Back Blast is still one of its most efficient attacks. The 'more DPS' point also wasn't true, at least prior to the patch. All the DPS parses I've seen have also given Scrapper slightly higher DPS but if you have some evidence of your DFer doing better damage on a dummy I'd be interested in seeing it.

 

Basically, DF needs better sustained damage and to actually become a 10m class instead of a melee class that can do a couple of 10m attacks.

[paid_in_full]

Thanks for the comments!

AOE damage builds will always score well in the charts, it's the nature of AOE damage. That doesn't make the majority of that damage useful.

I'm unsure if you noticed in my breakdown that the total output in comparative situations is only a 9% loss in immediate throughput. So we're talking 1v1, and while my conclusion points out the ROI for energy spent including up to 3 additional targets, the numbers address a 1v1 scenario.

 

That is, if I aggressively burn through my energy in both builds, that potential net difference in damage is 9% better on the Scrapper. These numbers reflect the current costs and totals in 1.2

 

 

Nice Try is a nice addition to Dirty Fighting but your other points aren't really valid.

I'm not sure why you feel that they aren't valid. Perhaps because there's a disconnect between what I intended to convey and your interpretation? Not sure.

- Your DPS with DoTs will be higher if you spec DF. That's the focus of the build, I'm unsure why you feel this isn't a valid statement as it seems fairly straight forward that's the design.

- Dirty Trickster does have some nice uses in PVP. Normally when you pop out of stealth and start to unload you'll have Slingers/Snipers etc. push/knock you back while slowing/rooting you. This takes an ability that isn't useful for PVP and makes it very useful, especially since it's on a 45sec CD and doesn't require energy. I am unsure about your experience in PVP, but being rooted or kited usually equals death for my toon. Don't you feel 2pts is worth having what equates to 2x Escapes?

- When I mentioned Ranged I didn't necessarily mean for it to be interpreted as a "true" ranged class, but more that it is less dependent on being within 5m of your opponent and that it could still function without the sometimes buggy "behind opponent" requirement. That is, you're still effective in a wider variety of circumstances. There's value to that versatility as in practical implementations, in a WZ, you won't always be in an ideal circumstance. Hopefully that makes sense.

- To continue the "range" comments Shrap Bomb and Vital Shot both have a range of 30m and are your primary attacks. Hemorrhaging Blast also is a free 10m attack. While you won't be as effective as a gunslinger sitting back and shooting, you aren't neutralized if you're not in melee range. Yes Wounding Shot requires UH, but in PVE that procs off of killing blows as well.

 

I'll see if I can put some logs together, but if my understanding of the mechanics are correct, and the numbers are accurate online for the abilities, these numbers would reflect accurate scenarios and are less dependent on player skill or familiarity.

 

Basically, DF needs better sustained damage and to actually become a 10m class instead of a melee class that can do a couple of 10m attacks.

What do you mean by "sustained damage"? Wouldn't the buffs to bleed effects be considered sustained?

[ByeToWoW]

Dirty trickster is nice, yes. However, I feel it is more (better) geared towards the gunslinger DF. With a Scoundrel being able to cleanse themselves, more often then not the slow that was applied to them they can simply remove, all with a 4.5 sec cd vs a 45 sec cd.

 

The 45 sec cd:

-guaranteed instantaneous snare removal

-not on the gcd

-free cost

 

Triage:

-very very low cd

-removes a snare + something else, however, this doesn't "always" remove the snare

-if all cds are used, and energy is good, spam the ability as there is most likely "something" negative on you that you can remove.

[Affics]

Yes, after patch i'm running as DF. And i prefer it over scrapper now.

[TristQueloon]

Ive been running the "DoT and HoT" build : http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#701rfcMzhZZhrdorMhd.1

 

You miss out on Hemm Blast, but you get a bit more survival from have 2 slow-release medpacks on you. Plus SRMP has a chance to give you an UH on each tick. So basically you can hang back further and still spam Wounding Shot, without having to get up close and personal. Or you if you have the health, you can rush in and add even more UH's through blaster whip, and really lay down the Wounding shots.

 

Its not uncommon for me to get 2-4 Wounding shots off on 1 target. Really scares them when the stars align and you can fire off 3 Wounding Shots in a row taking almost all their life in 1 go.

[Aetou]

A 9% difference in damage is HUGE. The Champion-> Battlemaster and Battlemaster -> War Hero differences are about 4% each if I remember rightly, so you're talking about the difference between Scrapper and Dirty Fighting being two levels of gear...

[Shinwon]

Can someone post videos of PvP play with a DF scoundrel? I would like to see this build in action. (And I don't mean this in a defensive way -- I am just curious to see how this looks like).

[paid_in_full]

Ive been running the "DoT and HoT" build : http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#701rfcMzhZZhrdorMhd.1

 

You miss out on Hemm Blast, but you get a bit more survival from have 2 slow-release medpacks on you. Plus SRMP has a chance to give you an UH on each tick. So basically you can hang back further and still spam Wounding Shot, without having to get up close and personal. Or you if you have the health, you can rush in and add even more UH's through blaster whip, and really lay down the Wounding shots.

 

Its not uncommon for me to get 2-4 Wounding shots off on 1 target. Really scares them when the stars align and you can fire off 3 Wounding Shots in a row taking almost all their life in 1 go.

Interesting... so what roles do you typically find yourself filling in a WZ?

 

You're really missing out on a lot of additional damage by not hitting T5/6 in DF and by not taking Browbeater in Scrapper. That's +18% from Browbeater, +15% from Coldblooded, and +30% from HB.

 

It sounds like the playstyles might be a bit different. Are you staying back primarily? I could see this build working well with the target 10M range as you're not reliant on Blaster Whip or Shoot first.

 

I'd love to get an idea of your rotation. I like the Commando playstyle because you have decent damage output along with good heals, the build you propose seems like it would have good survivability, while pumping out good DPS. You'd also be tactically flexible.

[paid_in_full]

A 9% difference in damage is HUGE. The Champion-> Battlemaster and Battlemaster -> War Hero differences are about 4% each if I remember rightly, so you're talking about the difference between Scrapper and Dirty Fighting being two levels of gear...

 

Please note this is not 9% less total damage. This is 9% less burst damage in a theoretical situation.

There's no less than 30% health calculations for the +15% damage on DF for example. There's also the fact that over the course of a fight DF does do more damage, per energy cost. I broke it down initially, that per 100+ energy without any crits etc. DF will do 13k+ damage while SC will see 9k damage.

 

You mention above that the splash DoT damage "will always score well in the charts, it's the nature of AOE damage. That doesn't make the majority of that damage useful. ", but I think you're missing one of the biggest values behind the AOE DoT:

 

It boosts the DPS of your teammates.

 

Rather, it has that potential to boost their DPS.

In the WZ's where I've had success, typically it's small skirmishes of 5 v 4 or 2 v3.

An additional 300DPS (or 1100 dmg every 3 sec) on a target helps.

 

I continue to find my toon scoring 9-12 medals a WZ, and either at or near the top in total damage dealt and kills. Along with a good KDR. That's in WZ's with Scrapper builds. Again, I am not trying to suggest that one build is better than another, simply illustrating that DF is a viable build. I've yet to try End Game PVE with it, but I imagine it will yield similar results.

[jbuschell]

I've been messing around with df lately and while I find myself doing about 50k more Dmg or so on avg per game, scrapper is just simply more fun Edited April 24, 2012 by jbuschell

[paid_in_full]

Dirty trickster is nice, yes. However, I feel it is more (better) geared towards the gunslinger DF. With a Scoundrel being able to cleanse themselves, more often then not the slow that was applied to them they can simply remove, all with a 4.5 sec cd vs a 45 sec cd.

 

The 45 sec cd:

-guaranteed instantaneous snare removal

-not on the gcd

-free cost

 

Triage:

-very very low cd

-removes a snare + something else, however, this doesn't "always" remove the snare

-if all cds are used, and energy is good, spam the ability as there is most likely "something" negative on you that you can remove.

You know what, you're absolutely right.

I'd not been keeping Triage on my immediate toolbar as I have a separate heal bar for that.

 

Yea, that makes the perk pretty worthless and those points are better used elsewhere

[ohnam]

I have played both extensively and DF is lots of fun with good numbers but imo to be effective the scrapper build is the best. For example, huttball defense scenario, you are the only one left to stop the carrier your burst is not good enough to stop him and you won't have the kd from the talent as a cc to use.

 

Back in the day when dots could stop people capping it was pretty useful for voidstar and alderaan. Now to be effective you have to run with the main force to "assist". You can't go solo a point by yourself anymore, you not fast enough to kill before reinforcements arrive.

 

So if you like be effective stay with group with DF but to be really effective roll scrapper. Scrapper can go solo or really really assist the main force.

[Ich_Bin]

I am not saying that Dirty Fighting is useless, but I think you are sugarcoating it. Yes, the overall damage over the course of a warzone is higher than that of a Scrapper, we all know it. But that damage - in general - is not nearly as useful as a Scrapper's damage because it is more easiely healed and not as bursty.

 

How often do you get the chance and the time to meet an opponent one on one who you can apply Hemorrhaging Blast and both DoTs on and who gives you the chance to Blaster Whip him afterwards? A simple Knockback/CC or another player intervening destroys your whole setup. And don'teven get me started on players that cleanse your DoTs

 

Edit: Also you should not spec into Flash Powder as it is probably the most useless skill for PvP that you can have.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[Comieb]

I am not saying that Dirty Fighting is useless, but I think you are sugarcoating it. Yes, the overall damage over the course of a warzone is higher than that of a Scrapper, we all know it. But that damage - in general - is not nearly as useful as a Scrapper's damage because it is more easiely healed and not as bursty.

 

How often do you get the chance and the time to meet an opponent one on one who you can apply Hemorrhaging Blast and both DoTs on and who gives you the chance to Blaster Whip him afterwards? A simple Knockback/CC or another player intervening destroys your whole setup. And don'teven get me started on players that cleanse your DoTs

 

Edit: Also you should not spec into Flash Powder as it is probably the most useless skill for PvP that you can have.

 

I think you also forgot to mention Wounding shots being a stationary channeled ability.

 

The number of times i had it interrupted is crazy.

[xTekx]

Well, I am a Dirty Fighting scoundrel, and I am having a blast with it. I keep reading on these boards that DF is not for PvP, and that you should go scrapper, and blah blah blah. You know what, I like my build, and it is WORKING for me in PvP. With that said....

 

I am currently sitting at L40 Scoundrel, with a 6/1/24 build. All my PvP is sub-50 warzones and i'm enjoying it. 50 WZ's at the moment really don't interest me due to the expertise and gear gap. But that's a whole different issue. Dirty fighting works in PvP if you understand what your role is. What's my role?

 

I am a situational support player. Nothing more nothing less. I am not going to go toe to toe in a 1v1 fight with the majority of classes, though sometimes I will win a 1v1 fight. But I understand this and I play accordingly. Because of this I have found that I win roughly 70% of the warzones I play in. Sometimes i'm near the top in damage, and sometimes i'm not. But the amount of damage I put out does not matter to me as much as my team winning the match. It's all about playing smart, and not thinking i'm some kind of armored tank that can go in and fight all 8 enemies at once.

 

I utilize some combination of shoot first, shrap bomb, vital shot, sabotage charge, blaster whip, back blast, cool head, and wounding shots in my normal rotation, with low blow and flash grenade thrown in if needed. I tend to try and save those two stuns for delaying the enemy if we are capping or if I am guarding a node and find myself fighting 1-3 people and am waiting for reinforcements. I will also utilize overcharge shot from the sides if i'm left alone and I have multiple allies around. Though overcharge shot will drop your energy fast. But I like it because it puts out some great damage, and I can shoot it fast repeatedly. Quick shot I will only use in select situations.

 

Would Scrapper do more? Maybe. But I know for me I am enjoying the challenge that this setup brings. It is definitely not for everyone, but then again I have never been one to follow the crowd in these kinds of games. I like being unique in what I have and I hate the FOTM builds. And I HATE HATE HATE Jedi in any and all games.

 

But like I said, this build is an extremely situational support role. I try to hit targets that another teammate or two are attacking, and to do so with as much burst as possible to get that opponent out of the fight. This helps get numbers on our side, thus giving us the advantage. I try to delay or harass any enemies trying to take a node or door if i'm by myself until help arrives. I do this with dart, low blow, flash grenade, disappearing act, and lots of flurry of bolts. When I find myself in that situation i'm not looking to kill anyone. I'm just trying to prevent the capture. If I die in the process I will have hoped I delayed them enough that my teammates get there before they take the objective.

 

I saw someone ask about video footage of a DF build... and if anyone wants the link send me a PM. I'm not the best, and I know there are a few things I need to tighten up in my playstyle, but i'm having tremendous success and am enjoying it.

[Anastasius]

Dirty Fighting is so Dirty and I love it. If it works for you who cares what some chuckleheads on an internet gaming forum tell you.

[ohnam]

Well, I am a Dirty Fighting scoundrel, and I am having a blast with it. I keep reading on these boards that DF is not for PvP, and that you should go scrapper, and blah blah blah. You know what, I like my build, and it is WORKING for me in PvP. With that said....

 

I am currently sitting at L40 Scoundrel, with a 6/1/24 build. All my PvP is sub-50 warzones and i'm enjoying it. 50 WZ's at the moment really don't interest me due to the expertise and gear gap. But that's a whole different issue. Dirty fighting works in PvP if you understand what your role is. What's my role?

 

I am a situational support player. Nothing more nothing less. I am not going to go toe to toe in a 1v1 fight with the majority of classes, though sometimes I will win a 1v1 fight. But I understand this and I play accordingly. Because of this I have found that I win roughly 70% of the warzones I play in. Sometimes i'm near the top in damage, and sometimes i'm not. But the amount of damage I put out does not matter to me as much as my team winning the match. It's all about playing smart, and not thinking i'm some kind of armored tank that can go in and fight all 8 enemies at once.

 

I utilize some combination of shoot first, shrap bomb, vital shot, sabotage charge, blaster whip, back blast, cool head, and wounding shots in my normal rotation, with low blow and flash grenade thrown in if needed. I tend to try and save those two stuns for delaying the enemy if we are capping or if I am guarding a node and find myself fighting 1-3 people and am waiting for reinforcements. I will also utilize overcharge shot from the sides if i'm left alone and I have multiple allies around. Though overcharge shot will drop your energy fast. But I like it because it puts out some great damage, and I can shoot it fast repeatedly. Quick shot I will only use in select situations.

 

Would Scrapper do more? Maybe. But I know for me I am enjoying the challenge that this setup brings. It is definitely not for everyone, but then again I have never been one to follow the crowd in these kinds of games. I like being unique in what I have and I hate the FOTM builds. And I HATE HATE HATE Jedi in any and all games.

 

But like I said, this build is an extremely situational support role. I try to hit targets that another teammate or two are attacking, and to do so with as much burst as possible to get that opponent out of the fight. This helps get numbers on our side, thus giving us the advantage. I try to delay or harass any enemies trying to take a node or door if i'm by myself until help arrives. I do this with dart, low blow, flash grenade, disappearing act, and lots of flurry of bolts. When I find myself in that situation i'm not looking to kill anyone. I'm just trying to prevent the capture. If I die in the process I will have hoped I delayed them enough that my teammates get there before they take the objective.

 

I saw someone ask about video footage of a DF build... and if anyone wants the link send me a PM. I'm not the best, and I know there are a few things I need to tighten up in my playstyle, but i'm having tremendous success and am enjoying it.

 

So have you tried Flechette round yet? I was DF while I leveled to 40 then switched when I got Flechette round. That's the key to the scrapper build, if you don't have that roll a DF or healer build.

[SabaTheHobo]

I think you also forgot to mention Wounding shots being a stationary channeled ability.

 

The number of times i had it interrupted is crazy.

 

When was the last time you played Scoundrel DF? WS is an instant ability...

[CrunkShizzle]

So have you tried Flechette round yet? I was DF while I leveled to 40 then switched when I got Flechette round. That's the key to the scrapper build, if you don't have that roll a DF or healer build.

 

so for leveling up scrappers not that good?

 

i mean i figured since i was gonna be pvping as scrapper anyway that id just lvl as scrapper.but i dont know,i guess from what ive heard with how the range on abilities works in this game i guess it depends on how i like dirty fighting,cuz i kinda like the sound of dirty fighting but scrapper seems to be the best choice for solo pvp

 

although from reading more about it,some of the talents dirty fighting gets look kinda nice for pvp

Edited April 27, 2012 by CrunkShizzle

[xTekx]

So have you tried Flechette round yet? I was DF while I leveled to 40 then switched when I got Flechette round. That's the key to the scrapper build, if you don't have that roll a DF or healer build.

 

No, as I am not going up the scrapper tree. I am going to be DF till I reach 50. I thought I explained that...

 

I have versatility with my setup to stay ranged, or get close. And like I mentioned I don't care about topping the damage charts, I care about my team winning the match. And this setup for me is allowing me to be beneficial to my team.

Edited April 27, 2012 by xTekx

[ohnam]

No, as I am not going up the scrapper tree. I am going to be DF till I reach 50. I thought I explained that...

 

I have versatility with my setup to stay ranged, or get close. And like I mentioned I don't care about topping the damage charts, I care about my team winning the match. And this setup for me is allowing me to be beneficial to my team.

 

Go for it and have fun with it, just saying the scrapper is more effective than DF imo for pvp. DF has way better damage numbers if you stick with the group. The thing that your missing about scrappers are we can kill healers, solo any class which means I can cap a point solo if they only have one defender.

 

The only thing DF really does is assist your team main force in killing people. There is no way you can kill someone solo who has the same expertise as you and if you are the last line of defense in huttball then you most likely won't be able to kill the ball carrier if he has the same expertise as you.

Edited April 27, 2012 by ohnam

[ohnam]

so for leveling up scrappers not that good?

 

i mean i figured since i was gonna be pvping as scrapper anyway that id just lvl as scrapper.but i dont know,i guess from what ive heard with how the range on abilities works in this game i guess it depends on how i like dirty fighting,cuz i kinda like the sound of dirty fighting but scrapper seems to be the best choice for solo pvp

 

Flechette round is the scrapper defining ability imo. In DF shrap grenade is the class defining ability imo. Its good for pve in conjunction with vital shot. I would let Corso pull then dot everything.

[CrunkShizzle]

although by what you put about dirty fighting

 

is dirty fighting in pvp more of a stick with your group and kill stuff.cuz im never a big fan of zerging,im more of the run around solo ganking people

 

but it just seems like dirty fightings in a better shape then scrapper cuz scrapper just gets nerf after nerf with no real compensation

[Aetou]

although by what you put about dirty fighting

 

is dirty fighting in pvp more of a stick with your group and kill stuff.cuz im never a big fan of zerging,im more of the run around solo ganking people

 

but it just seems like dirty fightings in a better shape then scrapper cuz scrapper just gets nerf after nerf with no real compensation

 

Scrapper has been nerfed repeatedly, yes. However, Dirty Fighting started off worse than Scrapper is even after all the nerfs it received.