aLLwOrLd_RB Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Its probably too early to know yet but, has anyone determined what the appropriate amount of expertise to have before you start sacrificing mods with expertise and accuracy for more disirable power and surge mods? Also the new WH light sabers have 41 expertise color crystals, do I want to keep that or trade for 41 power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Its probably too early to know yet but, has anyone determined what the appropriate amount of expertise to have before you start sacrificing mods with expertise and accuracy for more disirable power and surge mods? Also the new WH light sabers have 41 expertise color crystals, do I want to keep that or trade for 41 power? Expertise is overrated. Do not forgo your offensive stats for it. WH gear will cover you on the expertise, get the power crystal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgwru Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Are there any numbers to back that up? I'm not claiming one way or another, but I'd like to see math. 41 expertise amounts to about a .8% increase in damage no? Then there's the damage reduction portion. I'm not 100% sure how the multipliers stack, but if expertise is a flat bonus damage, it'll scale substantially better than power, and that's just the only offensive consideration. % damage reduction means its more effective the stronger your opponents get too. I'm more than willing to accept that power is the dominant stat, I just haven't seen much mathematical evidence as to why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Are there any numbers to back that up? I'm not claiming one way or another, but I'd like to see math. 41 expertise amounts to about a .8% increase in damage no? Then there's the damage reduction portion. I'm not 100% sure how the multipliers stack, but if expertise is a flat bonus damage, it'll scale substantially better than power, and that's just the only offensive consideration. % damage reduction means its more effective the stronger your opponents get too. I'm more than willing to accept that power is the dominant stat, I just haven't seen much mathematical evidence as to why. There's been direct in game testing, seeing as so far I've swapped over 200+ expertise for roughly 77 power and only noticed a -5 less damage taken to me with a noticeable drop to my offensive output. However, I am still testing and I cannot nor will I provide a complete answer until I am fully geared and have completed my experimenting. Based on my ongoing tests, however, expertise seems to be gimmicky and lackluster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgwru Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) I'd agree that its gimmick (in that any pvp armor stat is a gimmick), and honestly I expect a change to the damage it provides soon, it's simply too high with a near lack of DR now. Mathematically speaking, power would have to provide the same degree of increase in power, effect every attack you make, as well as provide the same protection / healing benefits. It simply can't, otherwise expertise is a broken concept. It breaks the PVP gear paradigm and would allow pve'rs in full power gear an advantage over a BM geared PVP'er. If it is, I would expect bioware to nerf it severely, and quickly. The other big thing is itemization. In PVP vs PVE gear, the amount of stats (non expertise) isn't that far off (they reduce all stats, not just secondary), so the only place this would matter would be in cases of a black or white choice of power vs expertise, such as a lightsaber crystal. No PVE gear mod is going to be better than the equivalent PVP gear piece unless the PVP piece is full crit and accuracy. Any pvp piece with power (even with acc) on it will trump anything from PVE. I'd even go so far as to say thats true for any stat other than pve with a lot of power on it vs a crit piece with nothing else. But that's not going to happen. I'm actively seeking ways to increase my damage as a 31/0/10 KC shadow in dps gear, moving away from a more survivor based gear set up. I'm stacking power as much as I can, cause its definitely the best, I just don't know if its worth any trade off in expertise. I'm hoping to see some kind of parsing tools come out so we can solve this. I'd like to see some shadow centric testing too, I just don't have the time to test like I used to in those *other* games lol. Edited April 20, 2012 by omgwru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plowd Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 There's been direct in game testing, seeing as so far I've swapped over 200+ expertise for roughly 77 power and only noticed a -5 less damage taken to me with a noticeable drop to my offensive output. However, I am still testing and I cannot nor will I provide a complete answer until I am fully geared and have completed my experimenting. Based on my ongoing tests, however, expertise seems to be gimmicky and lackluster. Not sure I am completely following you here, so you state above "with a noticeable drop to my offensive output." So if you are noticing a drop in your offensive output directly after swapping 200 expertise for 77 power how is expertise "gimmicky and lackluster."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plowd Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I'd agree that its gimmick (in that any pvp armor stat is a gimmick), and honestly I expect a change to the damage it provides soon, it's simply too high with a near lack of DR now. Mathematically speaking, power would have to provide the same degree of increase in power, effect every attack you make, as well as provide the same protection / healing benefits. It simply can't, otherwise expertise is a broken concept. It breaks the PVP gear paradigm and would allow pve'rs in full power gear an advantage over a BM geared PVP'er. If it is, I would expect bioware to nerf it severely, and quickly. The other big thing is itemization. In PVP vs PVE gear, the amount of stats (non expertise) isn't that far off (they reduce all stats, not just secondary), so the only place this would matter would be in cases of a black or white choice of power vs expertise, such as a lightsaber crystal. No PVE gear mod is going to be better than the equivalent PVP gear piece unless the PVP piece is full crit and accuracy. Any pvp piece with power (even with acc) on it will trump anything from PVE. I'd even go so far as to say thats true for any stat other than pve with a lot of power on it vs a crit piece with nothing else. But that's not going to happen. I'm actively seeking ways to increase my damage as a 31/0/10 KC shadow in dps gear, moving away from a more survivor based gear set up. I'm stacking power as much as I can, cause its definitely the best, I just don't know if its worth any trade off in expertise. I'm hoping to see some kind of parsing tools come out so we can solve this. I'd like to see some shadow centric testing too, I just don't have the time to test like I used to in those *other* games lol. Here you go --> http://advancedcombattracker.com/ This is a great parser that I used in Rift and now am using for TOR, download the tool and SWTOR plugin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnesium Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Expertise is not the be all and end all stat, but it does depend on how deep you go into your setup, I work on each single Mod/Enhancement to work out which is the better upgrade. You still need Expertise and if you had to have a "marker" to use then I would say about 1000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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