Tank Assassins (and Shadows) are ruining PvP.

[Halofax]

If the other two builds werent weak versions of other classes I would play something other than Darkness.

 

But deception is bad and madness is a headache to even run.

 

Too many people making too many claims about classes they dont play.

[Halofax]

This games community apparently thinks that only Ranged DPS guy and Melee DPS guy should be usable in PVP.

[Zintair]

It's embarrasing that you don't know how to anticipate what a Sorc/Sage will do.

 

There's a srub here, you're correct, but it's not me.

 

Funny how there is another Tankassin in this very thread who claims to be able to hard counter everything we have, but you cannot. Who's the scrub?

 

Feel free to put words in my mouth like I said I couldn't counter. NO ONE IS ARGUING 1v1 CLASS COUNTERING. YOU DONT *********** BALANCE BY 1v1!

 

I roll FULL tank gear and protection. I don't waste my groups time with LOLDPS.

 

SORC and Powertech Focus fire on a Shadow or Assassin will melt them down like they were nothing. This is realistic. Its UNREALISTIC to fantasize about a Sorc/Shadow duel where the Sorc has to OUTKITE for 100% of their health.

 

I'm baffled that people can be so thickheaded.

 

Only proves how terrible the players in this game are.

[Kasukua]

If the other two builds werent weak versions of other classes I would play something other than Darkness.

 

But deception is bad and madness is a headache to even run.

 

Too many people making too many claims about classes they dont play.

 

 

i found a 10/3/28 spec that I really liked, does more dmg consistently with less set-up time, and semi close to survivability depending on your point spending, but generally less survivability. thrash and assassinate hit like trucks, more so than darkness

 

 

but darkness offers better stuns and utility sadly

[shirayuki]

If the other two builds werent weak versions of other classes I would play something other than Darkness.

 

But deception is bad and madness is a headache to even run.

 

Too many people making too many claims about classes they dont play.

I agree, I would go deception in a heart beat if they weren't so bloody squishy

[Astarica]

I understand. That being said, I'd rather the ones I fight burn it before 3 stacks, I'd have a chance then. Sorc/Sage damage, no matter the spec is a ramp up, we have no burst, especially since the hybrid nerf. So a Tankassin can just save for the 3rd stack and use it whenever. Granted this is 1v1, but from what I read earlier, dps sages/sorcs are the best counter to them... lol.

 

Using the training dummy as your level of mitigation, a full burst with 3 stacks of HD + eveyrthing else does 9600 damage and heals the Sin for about 2K.

 

Using 35% crit rate 75% surge, 2X2HD would do 8228 + (8228 * (0.3*1.75 + 0.7/1.75) = 13988 damage and heal for 0.

 

Note that due to the difficulty of setting up 3 stacks, it actually takes roughly the same time to fire off 2X2HD compared to 1X3 HD.

 

So the question is do you want to do 4000 more damage or heal yourself for 2000. It's a judgment call but again, using these numbers from a training dummy, the 13988 damage from FL alone would easily bring most characters to Assassinate range, and then you just kill them and stop 100% of their incoming DPS.

 

Keep in mind that the Assassin has one of the most powerful finisher in the game. Against low defense classes, Assassinate is often instant kill.

[Astakhan]

Feel free to put words in my mouth like I said I couldn't counter. NO ONE IS ARGUING 1v1 CLASS COUNTERING. YOU DONT *********** BALANCE BY 1v1!

 

I roll FULL tank gear and protection. I don't waste my groups time with LOLDPS.

 

SORC and Powertech Focus fire on a Shadow or Assassin will melt them down like they were nothing. This is realistic. Its UNREALISTIC to fantasize about a Sorc/Shadow duel where the Sorc has to OUTKITE for 100% of their health.

 

I'm baffled that people can be so thickheaded.

 

Only proves how terrible the players in this game are.

 

You're cooler when you type in caps. Don't get so angry about this, the nerf will come regardless of you angry ranting.

 

BTW - if you roll full tank gear in PVP, call me a scrub again... Everyone that knows anything about PVP and the what types of damage can be shielded and how valuable defense is in PVP, knows just how "experienced" you are.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Astakhan

[Scoobings]

I agree, I would go deception in a heart beat if they weren't so bloody squishy

 

Originally when I created a character for each AC, the concept for my assassin was lightsaber based and I wanted to go deception.

 

Was kind of disappointed when I found out that wasn't really that viable I still haven't found a very viable deception spec (I'm not 50 though on my sin).

[DOOMOCTAGON]

This thread can be summed up by the following...

 

Bads complaining about non-bads.

 

Quit crying people seriously.

[Zintair]

You're cooler when you type in caps. Don't get so angry about this, the nerf will come regardless of you angry ranting.

 

Lol you think your own ignorance angers me? Your shot. You started this conversation saying you interrupt Powertech Tracer missiles. I have been smiling since.

 

And if you actually read what I posted, I slot FULL TANK gear because DPS Tankasin is LOLDPS.

 

Any nerf to the DPSTanksin has NOTHING to do with me.

 

Ill keep getting my 200k DMG 300k Protection 0 Deaths.

 

Keep crying over non-factor PUG warzones where you couldn't beat the BEST 1v1 class in the game (and subsequently use only 1v1 examples to prove how they are OP).

[Astakhan]

You started this conversation saying you interrupt Powertech Tracer missiles. I have been smiling since.

 

Because I used generic terminology for being able to stop their missles?

 

You're grasping.

 

And failing.

 

I'm using 1v1 arguments because someone earlier in this very thread, said that dps sorcs/sages are THE counter.

 

Let us reset.

 

Remember rock / paper / scissors?

 

Is the light turning on yet?

[Zintair]

Because I used generic terminology for being able to stop their missles?

 

You're grasping.

Id say grasping equates too claiming OTHER Sahdows say the same thing so it must be true.

 

And failing.

 

I'm using 1v1 arguments because someone earlier in this very thread, said that dps sorcs/sages are THE counter.

 

Let us reset.

 

Remember rock / paper / scissors?

 

Is the light turning on yet?

 

Except your tears are scream Shadows are Rock + Paper + Scissors. Seems you been in the light too long and have brain damage.

 

Rock/paper/scissor means there's a counter and you are saying there is none.

 

Teamwork / balance / Organization is a hard counter in this game considering people with your backwards logic play.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Zintair

[Zerogates]

Full battlemaster assassin with tank spec up to harnessed darkness, then points in madness for boosts to thrash and shock damage.

 

My single target damage is pretty good, yet one on one it is almost impossible for my full battlemaster assassin to take out a full battlemaster healer with biochem. I have numerous, not one or two but a great many encounters where I am trying to take out the smuggler healer one on one and they somehow kite and heal up over 30 seconds, despite my interrupts working when they should and stunning at appropriate times. For all the claims of the insane damage my assassin should be doing, and primarily single-target damage, I would imagine I could actually kill equally geared healers more often than not yet this is not the case.

 

In comparison, my sniper who is in champion with one piece of battlemaster, using engineering and lethality hybrid spec for AOE damage boost...I will repeat AOE damage boosting...and up to Cull in lethality. If I see a healer I can almost guarantee I can burst it down. They may get lucky with a biochem heal stim, which is about the best chance they have of surviving asside from LOSing me (something anyone can do to a tank assassin if not more easily), and I do not require being in melee range for my primary stun eaither. The burst is higher than my assassin, the DPS is higher than my assassin, the AOE damage is FAR higher than my assassin.

 

 

My assassin has good survival, but it is a tank so what would you expect? My survival primarily comes not from my toolset alone though, but the failure of other players. If I pop force shroud early into rushing a group of players, if they are noobs then they all try to burst me down with all their attacks which get nullified. My defense is around 70% for 12 seconds as well, meaning most of their regular attacks will fail too. If they wait until my assassin stops glowing bright, white, and obviously immune to their abilities, then I die in a few seconds against several people. Just like a juggernaut with or without his shield, the survival is not due to the tools but the ignorance of attackers.

 

 

As player incompetence cannot be blamed on the classes they are attacking, the only thing I can find issue with on assassins is the stealth itself. Stealth on a tank class makes no sense, although I know it is to counter warrior leaps as a gap closing ability, it provides too much utility and survival at once. Darkness (tank spec) should have nerfed stealth and then the class would honestly be just fine.

[MandraMoody]

Nah the people in this forum got tired of getting told to shut up by their Mara friends in game for whining that they are OP so they had to pick something else to go morrissey about.

 

I mean comon? crying about lackluster self heal that can't save you (1800? ROOOFL! oh yeah makes a ton of diff in a 16k HP pool when you are fielding ranged 2-5+K chains by 2+ players. back to math 101 kids! ALL the self heals I have as a SIN can't get me past 15%, and when 70% of my pool is getting eaten yeah.) as being OP and for the record...every WZ I get in, I am lucky to even get ONE FL off and IF I have HD up to 3 then guess what? considering that I almost always have 2-3 players on me that "zomg! OP heal!!!" = I'm dead. Before you mention stealth it's broken, if the wz announcer speaks it breaks so don't even go there.

 

Yes I can 1v1 SOME classes pretty good, I'll name one right now...deception sins. poor things have a picture under the word squish in websters. Our counter class? I do think we have one and it would have to be scoundrel. They can shut down a SIN with ease then kite us, vanish when we manage to gap close then restun and kite til dead.. There's a post asking for help against those in the sin forums too.

 

The reason sins get focussed alot is not fear.

Nice try though

 

Edit: this post was @ the OP and thread. they really need to name the reply buttons to "Reply to post" and "Reply to thread" for us blondes.

Edited April 20, 2012 by MandraMoody

[Zintair]

 

As player incompetence cannot be blamed on the classes they are attacking, the only thing I can find issue with on assassins is the stealth itself. Stealth on a tank class makes no sense, although I know it is to counter warrior leaps as a gap closing ability, it provides too much utility and survival at once. Darkness (tank spec) should have nerfed stealth and then the class would honestly be just fine.

 

I must say I agree with what you posted except when I got to here.

 

Are we sure its the Stealth feature that is the problem or the fact that we can Vanish from combat.

 

I don't see where a Tank spec gains that added advantage from stealth considering they achieve no real benefit from it except .. to go back into it when FF'd?

 

Curious your opinion here

 

EDIT: unless you mean CCing solo players protecting nodes etc.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Zintair

[Astakhan]

I must say I agree with what you posted except when I got to here.

 

Are we sure its the Stealth feature that is the problem or the fact that we can Vanish from combat.

 

I don't see where a Tank spec gains that added advantage from stealth considering they achieve no real benefit from it except .. to go back into it when FF'd?

 

Curious your opinion here

 

EDIT: unless you mean CCing solo players protecting nodes etc.

 

From a Sorc/Sage perspective, it's because if I'm protecting a node or door and a single tankassin comes to take it, the fight will always and I mean always start at melee range with me being incapcitated in some way.

 

Now, starting with those cirucmstances (and me falling back on someone saying I am the counter to them), what chance do I have other than none. Calling for help is all there is.

 

I agree with your assesment of Vanish. I've actually played against a Tankassin perfectly a few times, that is, anticipated what they were anticipating me doing and being reactive and completely unpredictable. Almost had him, had the upper hand and.... poof! Vanish. lawl.

[Sweeet]

So many people in this thread either living in denial, or afraid that their Super Tank will get nerfed.

 

I play a Sentinel and my DPS is pretty sick 1 vs 1, but something is not right when you allow Tankassins to have the tanking set, and then swap out their mods/enhancements for DPS ones. Their survivability and damage is INSANE - no tank should be able to put out the damage of a pure DPS spec, ever.

 

I went 1 vs 1 with one such Tankassin in NC last night, and to no surprise my burst did squat. He then proceeded to burst me down in no seconds flat. That is not right. The penalty for having the increased survivability of a tank, is to put out less damage. That's how the holy trinity works. Yet there are Tankassins rolling around with insane survivability and yet have the damage of a pure DPS spec. I wouldn't have minded so much if he had whittled me down, but no, he burst me down in around 15 seconds like a pure DPS specced class.

 

You can't have a game that is based on the holy trinity and then allow classes to do this, it breaks the system. Hence why Tankassins are indeed broken - why this game is broken.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Sweeet

[dirtyv]

I have one in the works ... cant wait to get him to 50

[vrgadin]

what annoys me more is fotm dbags who only roll the current exploitable specs. dps guard here and all i ever saw were sorcs and ops in wzs. now all it is are tankasins and marauders and a few bhs (the historically op class)

[vrgadin]

I have one in the works ... cant wait to get him to 50

 

fotm scrub ^^

[mcgrace]

fotm scrub ^^

 

^That

[Zintair]

From a Sorc/Sage perspective, it's because if I'm protecting a node or door and a single tankassin comes to take it, the fight will always and I mean always start at melee range with me being incapcitated in some way.

 

Now, starting with those cirucmstances (and me falling back on someone saying I am the counter to them), what chance do I have other than none. Calling for help is all there is.

 

I agree with your assesment of Vanish. I've actually played against a Tankassin perfectly a few times, that is, anticipated what they were anticipating me doing and being reactive and completely unpredictable. Almost had him, had the upper hand and.... poof! Vanish. lawl.

 

Yeah I can completely understand the difficulty of that scenario.

 

 

But it's your teams fault for making a DPS Sorc Guard a node alone. Not the Shadows fault.

 

This is the problem I have with your arguments. Every scenario you bring up is poor decision making from the information you give.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Zintair

[SeloDaoC]

Im meeting disgusting premade tankassassin groups of 3 tankassassins and 1 operative healer over and over.

The other group beeing 3 marauders and another operative healer ofcourse.

 

As a commando you cant even get them below 80%, they just mitigate everything you throw at them, if your not interupted that is. And still they dish out loads of damage.

[shirayuki]

what annoys me more is fotm dbags who only roll the current exploitable specs. dps guard here and all i ever saw were sorcs and ops in wzs. now all it is are tankasins and marauders and a few bhs (the historically op class)

 

not my server most of the time its class verried, but you get those matches with 4 troopers or 4 scoundrals from time to time

[Zintair]

Im meeting disgusting premade tankassassin groups of 3 tankassassins and 1 operative healer over and over.

The other group beeing 3 marauders and another operative healer ofcourse.

 

As a commando you cant even get them below 80%, they just mitigate everything you throw at them, if your not interupted that is. And still they dish out loads of damage.

 

Your telling me you've fought an 8man premade of:

 

2 OP Healers

3 Tankasins

3 Marauders

 

??

 

I'd love to see a SS of that.