Grav round Gimped 26% damage, 23% total gimp even with Demo round increase.

[Dayrun]

So I guess I should have taken screen shots prior to 1.2 as I am sure the devs will say my data is totally incorrect. So what, that facts are the supposed 10% is just not true.

 

The day before the patch I played for about 2 hours and wrote down the damage of all my grav shots damage and demo round damage to see if it would level out after the patch like its been hinted as it should.

 

Grav round

Pre 1.2 average damage 2300 per hit

Post 1.2 average damage 1700 per hit

 

Demo round

Pre 1.2 2500

Post 1.2 3200

 

Every 30 seconds using 2 demo rounds and 15 Grav rounds

Pre 1.2 = 39,500

Post 1.2 = 31,900

 

Nerf total Percent = 23%

 

Dev's just tell us this is intended and I wont talk about it again.

[Arzoo]

In thirty seconds you should fire 2 HiB, 2 Demolition rounds, and some number of full auto's. I'll just ignore the reserve cell + plasma grenade combo due to its long cooldown.

 

4 * 1.5 = 6 seconds down.

 

CoF proc's a tad less than half the time you use grav round, but since being optimal is usually impossible (and there is an internal CD) I'll be mean and say it works out to one full auto per three grav rounds.

 

Every "set" of full auto and 3 grav's is 7.5 seconds. You'll get about 3 of these and then one spare grav round.

 

So that's only 10 grav rounds every 30 seconds (or a 5:1 ratio against demolition rounds). And that's being fairly conservative; in practice I suspect it's even less grav rounds.

 

Try applying your average damage calculations to that. (I hope you have numbers for HiB and full auto).

Edited April 14, 2012 by Arzoo

[Redcorn]

Don't forget the increased cast time of grav and the extra ammo needed to cast demo round. Edited April 14, 2012 by Redcorn

[Arzoo]

Don't forget the increased cast time of grav and the extra ammo needed to cast demo round.

 

 

What in the world are you talking about? The cast time remains 1.5 seconds with proper talents, and demolition round and grav round both cost 2 ammo, and always have.

 

Do people on these forums not even look at the Gunnery tree, much less play it? I see lots of ridiculous misconceptions like this all the time.

[Dayrun]

All good points. I was just using really simple math to show that its nerfed a ton more then it was "advertised" .. I just tested these two and Mortar volley. Which Mortar volley was a wash, other then 1/3 of the time you cant grab that third mod and hit them because of the reduced radius.

[kenskog]

don't worry, some ppl thrive on feeling slighted by the devs so they have something new to complain about, even if they have to go by rumors of nerfs or make up nerfs themselves. Truth is this patch was just a dps nerf for those commandos that spam 1 or 2 abilities.

[Arzoo]

It's silly really.

 

I'll admit I was worried when it turned out that 10% really meant closer to 25%, since grav round is still forcibly a large portion of our damage compared to demolition round, but I thought more about it: our damage was shifted towards DR and FA. More FA = more ammo = more theoretical damage potential. More FA +DR damage = more benefit from the surge talent = crit is EVEN BETTER.

 

Frankly I always felt Gunnery was a very well organized tree in terms of ability synergy (yeah it's annoying that so much feels tied to grav round... but all our major benefits are for the cooler abilities that it enables/enhances. This patch just increased the emphasis on the "cool" stuff while making grav round more of just a requirement to enhance all the good abilities.

 

I wish tactics was as well designed as Gunnery. The proc'd free ability is kinetic damage (not buffed by half your talents). The auto-crit is Ranged damage (you don't want any accuracy at all so that also sucks. It also has no surge bonus). It's like they had this idea for pulse generator working with ion pulse/flame pulse, but then couldn't figure out how to fit HiB and stockstrike in there. Gut is also pretty crummy in general.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Arzoo

[Atownarmy]

All I can say for sure is that the way that I play, my DPS has improved noticably in 1.2. Im going longer with my ammo, staying alive longer, and getting more damage per warzone than ever before. i just need to get some of this fancy 1.2 rated war hero gear and I'll be set.

 

We have to play the cards we're given. Shoot FA everytime CoF procs, use Mortar Volley on cooldown, done shoot grav round more than you have to for procs and buffs, and I think you'll see the same improvement that I, and all of my Gunnery buddies, are seeing.

[Niconogood]

don't worry, some ppl thrive on feeling slighted by the devs so they have something new to complain about, even if they have to go by rumors of nerfs or make up nerfs themselves. Truth is this patch was just a dps nerf for those commandos that spam 1 or 2 abilities.

 

Even if you keep saying that to yourself doesnt make it true. Grav round is still the most important ability in our rotation and and our overall damage is thus gimped into oblivion compared to other classes. Have you even seen what maras can do now? I dont even...

 

The reason that 10% advertised damage reduction translates to something like 25% in real play might be due to how the damage modifiers and scaling work for power, expertise etc.

 

Saw the same ***** in Rift too, a seemingly small % reduction in the damage of the skill just snowballed to utterly gimp the damage in half due to how all the modifiers were calculated.

[Dayrun]

My perspective is totally PVE. One thing I think Bioware has done a poor job of is balance this game for both PVE and PVP. We seem to make global changes to help balance PVP (which will never happen, and has never happened in any game). Make changes for PVP separate to PVE and stop/reverse this crazy routine of nerf addiction new MMO especially love to do. Edited April 15, 2012 by Dayrun

[Lhorian]

The reason that 10% advertised damage reduction translates to something like 25% in real play might be due to how the damage modifiers and scaling work for power, expertise etc.

 

Saw the same ***** in Rift too, a seemingly small % reduction in the damage of the skill just snowballed to utterly gimp the damage in half due to how all the modifiers were calculated.

 

Yep, went from 3k grav round crits to 2,4k crits which is definetly more then 10%. Oh and this is in pve. Haven't pvp-ed in ages.

[Lexb]

So I guess I should have taken screen shots prior to 1.2 as I am sure the devs will say my data is totally incorrect. So what, that facts are the supposed 10% is just not true.

 

The day before the patch I played for about 2 hours and wrote down the damage of all my grav shots damage and demo round damage to see if it would level out after the patch like its been hinted as it should.

 

Grav round

Pre 1.2 average damage 2300 per hit

Post 1.2 average damage 1700 per hit

 

Demo round

Pre 1.2 2500

Post 1.2 3200

 

Every 30 seconds using 2 demo rounds and 15 Grav rounds

Pre 1.2 = 39,500

Post 1.2 = 31,900

 

Nerf total Percent = 23%

 

Dev's just tell us this is intended and I wont talk about it again.

 

Good "Windows Calculator Operator Specialist (Senior)" are hard to find, but it's understandable.

 

"Dev's just tell us this is intended and I wont talk about it again" <--- that's an example of transparency and dialogue in a company to get confidence and trust from customers.

 

Devs quotes are priceless. BW devs behavior can be used as case in studies in how to ruin the relation between customers and a company.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Lexb

[Macabakur]

don't worry, some ppl thrive on feeling slighted by the devs so they have something new to complain about, even if they have to go by rumors of nerfs or make up nerfs themselves. Truth is this patch was just a dps nerf for those commandos that spam 1 or 2 abilities.

 

do you even play a commando? please don't post stuff like this, it's just detrimental to the thread.

[oaceen]

nvm, thought it was demo round, not grav round.

 

ignore me <_<

Edited April 19, 2012 by oaceen

[ArchangelLBC]

Grav Round is definitely still taking into account Grav Vortices or else it now hits like a TRUCK. I've seen an easy 1k dmg added in raids to the crits on bosses.

 

 

OP, you haven't taken into account Full Auto since the CoF procs raised from 30% chance to 45% which was part of the whole "rebalance" thought on the part of the devs, especially since FA is much less useful in PVP as a 3 second channeled ability.

[Dayrun]

Only thing FA helps with is ammo control. It still under damages Grav round with the nerf.

[Dayrun]

Wow you see all the responses to these issues on the Q and A? Yea, none..

[Hxxr]

That's kind of bothersome actually.

 

Nerfing the class was fine and needed.

 

But lying afterwards, telling people it wasn't a nerf and then ignoring feedback and questions is rather not so good.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Hxxr

[Asavar]

That's kind of bothersome actually.

 

Nerfing the class was fine and needed.

 

But lying afterwards, telling people it wasn't a nerf and then ignoring feedback and questions is rather not so good.

 

 

Oh yeah, absolutely needed... just like sentinels/marauders needed a buff, right?

 

Because I'm in a raid right now with a fresh 50 sentinel who has 4 blue items and a few pvp pieces doing 1300 dps. Obviously they're not OP....