Thoughts on crazy looking hybrid spec.......16/12/13

[Nerzhul]

I'll start off by saying that I am in full BM War Leader gear. Pre-patch I ran 14/27/0 in both PvP and PvE.

 

Right now I am running pretty much full Immortal, something like 31/7/3 (for decimate and ravager)

 

I tried this spec out just playing around with what I felt was a good mix of survival from the immortal tree, and steady damage from the others:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101hMGzuzZfMR0MZGrobz.1

 

 

My observations from this build:

 

More squishy than full immortal, but almost the same as 14/27/0. You do lose Deafening Defense, which is 4% dmg reduction, but I think it's made up for in damage output.

 

We all know the BM tank set is poorly itemized, but this build gives me something like 21% defense, 20% shield, and around 26-28% absorb (can't log in to check right now for certain). The gear I am wearing right now gives 1160 Expertise. (Have one champion relic left)

 

Retaliation is talented for 6% defense increase and rage reduction.

 

Invincible is talented in this spec.

 

Unstoppable is talented in this spec, and we all love that one

 

Single Saber Mastery and Dreadnaught are a must in my book, since this is built mostly around weapon damage.

 

Instant force choke with improved Ravage from Ravager. With War leader gear I get a 4 second Choke and with the GCD, I am able to land the full 3 seconds of Ravage, unless the opponent trinkets of course.

 

Ravage deals something like 3000-3500 (maybe a little more, can't log in atm) dmg based on the tooltip in full War Leader gear (will get over 2k single hit crits during the channel as well).

 

28% damage increase to smash with talents. With my gear and Biochem power stim active, I can land 2k crit smash hits on BM geared players.

 

Obliterate easily hits for 1200-1500 and crits for over 2K, as well as giving another 10m gap closer.

 

Rotation is something like this:

Saber throw, Charge, Sunder, Obliterate, Choke, Ravage, Push, Charge, Sunder, Scream, filler(slash, sunder, assault), Viscous Throw should be ready by now, obliterate and scream will come off CD and rotate between those three and rage builders if needed until target is dead.

 

 

 

I have not noticed any Rage problems in this build, in Soresu form. I usually run in that form exclusively for guard and the set bonus 5% dmg increase when guard is active pretty much negates the usefulness of Shii-Cho.

 

In the few matches I played in this spec (maybe 5 or 6), was getting around 150k-200k dmg and 30k-60k protection on average and anywhere from 10-16 medals. And again, that's in War Leader gear and playing objective based PvP. I never go for stats unless it's a "lost cause" situation.

 

 

 

So that's it. The strengths of the build are obvious i think. You get Obliterate, instant Force Choke, 28% Smash dmg increase, pretty respectable damage from Ravage and the ability to land that damage thanks to instant Choke, and you get your Invincible CD plus the retaliation defense bonus.

 

There's certainly weaknesses, but I found this spec to be very fun overall and more difficult for healers to get away from me.

 

It's got a quite a bit of burst even in War Leader gear and I would love to see what this spec was like in Vindicator.

 

Please, let me know what you guys think and go try this out for yourselves. I'm open to any critiques and suggestions and any valid reason that this spec might be just garbage all together. I had a lot of fun using it. Had to go back to full immortal last night for an Ops run, but I did tank a HM FP in this spec with ease.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Nerzhul

[crashoverridex]

that spec looks really similiar to what i was going to use once i got to 50. exact same point distribution except a few changes. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101GrMdzzZfMR0MZGr0dz.1

 

in your build you have a point in endless rage but have points in guard stance and lash out, that doesnt make sense.

[Nerzhul]

that spec looks really similiar to what i was going to use once i got to 50. exact same point distribution except a few changes. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101GrMdzzZfMR0MZGr0dz.1

 

in your build you have a point in endless rage but have points in guard stance and lash out, that doesnt make sense.

 

I just took that point in endless rage to get to the next tree. As I would run pretty much exclusively in Soresu, you're right that the point would be better distributed in Brutality instead. I honestly don't use Viscous Slash much because it dumps a good bit of rage.

 

I took Guard Stance and Blade Barricade instead of Battle Cry, Intimidation, and Unleashed for more damage reduction. You give up the free rage slow/Scream and 30 seconds on the "trinket", but you get back 12% defense overall when retaliation is active.

 

 

So to fix mine:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101hMGzuzZfMR0MZGr0dz.1

Edited April 13, 2012 by Nerzhul

[harmonichonda]

I like it, I really see some potential for this

 

I'm still fresh-ish 50 on my juggy with the reroll server the guild is on, but I'll definitely play with this for a hard mode video and or stream.

 

Right now I went heavy immortal for the 2 big threat hits we get now for weekend ops.

[lordofdamornin]

I just took that point in endless rage to get to the next tree. As I would run pretty much exclusively in Soresu, you're right that the point would be better distributed in Brutality instead. I honestly don't use Viscous Slash much because it dumps a good bit of rage.

 

I took Guard Stance and Blade Barricade instead of Battle Cry, Intimidation, and Unleashed for more damage reduction. You give up the free rage slow/Scream and 30 seconds on the "trinket", but you get back 12% defense overall when retaliation is active.

 

 

So to fix mine:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101hMGzuzZfMR0MZGr0dz.1

 

Hope this works...

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RrudzzZfMR0MZGr0zz.1

 

I like this version better. This link leave 2 points to put wherever; I would probably put them into Sonic Barrier, but the Scream dot wouldn't be bad, and if you can manage the buff, Pooled Hatred might be great (or not, depends). These 2 points are coming out of Saber Strength, btw - 6% damage to Obliterate isn't going to make or break anything, and I just think they are better spent to bolster things you will be using more often - like Scream.

 

You are taking Unstoppable, which means you are Charging a lot (I hope)...why would you not take free Screams from that? You also have Obliterate, so in theory, every Scream should be free. Again, Sonic Barrier, or the dot fit very nicely with this.

 

I have never liked Quake - I think people make an erroneous extrapolation as to what it does, and the actual realized effects. I think about taking it every time I respec for PvP, but never do end up taking it.

 

No Unleashed, no Intimidation - I suppose I could finish the back 9 with nothing but a 7 iron, but I can't see why I would want to.

 

Every build linked in here is missing some of the really good stuff from Immortal, and most of the best stuff from both Vengeance, and Rage. While this build does provide decent utility and flexibility, it doesn't do anything really well...other than move around. I don't like (melee) hybrid builds. Ranged/stealth hybrids, on the other hand, are a completely different story.

 

Riôt

Edited April 14, 2012 by lordofdamornin

[Ansultares]

I tried this out for a few games before 1.2, as it was a build I was looking at for awhile while leveling up.

 

The only thing its particularly good at, or was at the time at any rate, was voidstar.

 

Overall, I found rage to be more effective. That's probably still the case, even with the nerfs, though I'm taking the opportunity to try vengeance for awhile.

[Datamonger]

EDIT: I'm an idiot. Edited April 14, 2012 by Datamonger

[Nerzhul]

Hope this works...

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RrudzzZfMR0MZGr0zz.1

 

I like this version better. This link leave 2 points to put wherever; I would probably put them into Sonic Barrier, but the Scream dot wouldn't be bad, and if you can manage the buff, Pooled Hatred might be great (or not, depends). These 2 points are coming out of Saber Strength, btw - 6% damage to Obliterate isn't going to make or break anything, and I just think they are better spent to bolster things you will be using more often - like Scream.

 

You are taking Unstoppable, which means you are Charging a lot (I hope)...why would you not take free Screams from that? You also have Obliterate, so in theory, every Scream should be free. Again, Sonic Barrier, or the dot fit very nicely with this.

 

I have never liked Quake - I think people make an erroneous extrapolation as to what it does, and the actual realized effects. I think about taking it every time I respec for PvP, but never do end up taking it.

 

No Unleashed, no Intimidation - I suppose I could finish the back 9 with nothing but a 7 iron, but I can't see why I would want to.

 

Every build linked in here is missing some of the really good stuff from Immortal, and most of the best stuff from both Vengeance, and Rage. While this build does provide decent utility and flexibility, it doesn't do anything really well...other than move around. I don't like (melee) hybrid builds. Ranged/stealth hybrids, on the other hand, are a completely different story.

 

Riôt

 

 

Yea I respeced into it today in server and took something very similar to what you posted. Went ahead and took the free scream and the free chill.

 

I totally agree that this spec is kind of a "jack of all trades" type of thing. Not as good DPS as a dps build, and not as good damage mitigation as an immortal build, but a pretty decent at both. I guess that's the whole point of the "hybrid" though.

 

I'm also using full War Leader gear with it, which is why I take a lot of the damage reduction talents. This just makes me feel like I can actually do damage, and remain pretty "tanky."

 

One thing I've noticed is that it's very nice for chasing down and controlling healers.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Nerzhul

[Halefthaut]

With all due respects and constructive criticism, OP build is horrible. It may look good on paper but on testing you dont have all the talents that help on rage costs, beside chilling scream one huh, not enough. And Force Scream that will do laughable damage anyways... so you will end rage starved most of the time.

 

I see you come from a tanking hybrid perspective, but im posting the most effective hybrid DPS build, useful both PVE and PVP.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101ZfhMorudzZGr0ddc.1

 

With this build you will be drowning in Rage points, enough to even dump with Vicious Strike. The key to this build is gear for Power+Surge and enjoy the Force Scream and Smashes automatic crits. Smash damage without Shockwave and Dark Resonance goes for about 3k. It has nice controlled damage output while retaining Unstoppable.

 

 

I usually open like this:

 

Saber Throw>Force Charge>Smash>Impale>Force Scream>Obliterate

 

Then i apply Choke or Push when available, or whatever else i have on deck

[unicornfive]

With the specs i see here, no wonder i never lost a single 1v1 duel vs juggs...

[crashoverridex]

With the specs i see here, no wonder i never lost a single 1v1 duel vs juggs...

 

sorry for trying to experiment we'll just stick with FOTM builds...

[Nerzhul]

With the specs i see here, no wonder i never lost a single 1v1 duel vs juggs...

 

Nice constructive input there. We all appreciate it very much.

 

Now please go away because you hurt my internet feelings and I might cry.

 

 

With all due respects and constructive criticism, OP build is horrible. It may look good on paper but on testing you dont have all the talents that help on rage costs, beside chilling scream one huh, not enough. And Force Scream that will do laughable damage anyways... so you will end rage starved most of the time.

 

I see you come from a tanking hybrid perspective, but im posting the most effective hybrid DPS build, useful both PVE and PVP.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101ZfhMorudzZGr0ddc.1

 

With this build you will be drowning in Rage points, enough to even dump with Vicious Strike. The key to this build is gear for Power+Surge and enjoy the Force Scream and Smashes automatic crits. Smash damage without Shockwave and Dark Resonance goes for about 3k. It has nice controlled damage output while retaining Unstoppable.

 

 

I usually open like this:

 

Saber Throw>Force Charge>Smash>Impale>Force Scream>Obliterate

 

Then i apply Choke or Push when available, or whatever else i have on deck

 

 

Thanks for the build. I've been playing around with some rage/tanking hybrids as well. I'm not really fond of the idea of grinding out a DPS set to focus on power and surge.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RrhzuzMZcZGrorzf.1

 

That one is pretty fun, but like the others, it's pretty rage starved. DPS classes and builds take it for granted, but it's very nice to see 3k+ hits as a tank. The build above can give 3k+ smash crits in full War Leader gear.

 

I think what's really tempting for those of us that used the 14/27/0 build pre-patch, is that now we have Single Saber Mastery which adds to the damage in Soresu form, plus the increase to Ravage as well as the talent for it. With Force Choke being moved down to tier 4 in the immortal tree, it's just so tempting to try and build around that instant FC and Ravage.

 

I am finding though that you get about one good rotation going that way and you had better have your target down to Viscous Strike range by then or it's an uphill battle to end the fight.

 

I may end up back in 14/27/0 at some point, as it still seems viable and the 16/25/0 spec seems good as well since the removal of huddle. Sonic Barrier being on immortal tier 4 is tempting as well.

 

Gonna give this one a try too:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101Rrh0zZfMRMrhdzGZM.1

 

In the end, I'll probably go back to a full immortal build or a 16/25/0 build. I like the role of being a tank too much to go full DPS. Hitting like a wet noodle in immortal spec just gets a little old sometimes