A Healer's 1.2 Grievances: The story of why healers are upset

[Khoraji]

Again for the downs kids.

 

A change of the expertise ratio from 1-1-1 to 2-1.5-1 represents a buff to dps and a nerf to heals, by definition.

 

There is no arguing this fact. You can only argue where you personally believe the balance neutral spot is. From thr feedback since ptr its very obvious that healers dont find it to be in a good spot.

 

There was no nerf to healing expertise. I was 12% pre 1.2, and I am 12% after 1.2

 

DPS got a 1% dmg buff because of 1.2.... if you cant deal with that...you are bad...end of story.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Khoraji

[AHChrist]

I rolled merc initially, played healer, it was overpowered and I could easily handle 3-4 dps at lvl 30, got bored, required no skill and was not fun. I then switched to assassin (deception spec) because I thought it looked cool and I liked it, then you forum warriors claimed my class was FOTM overpowered so I bit the bait and rolled an operative (according to forum warriors the most gimped class in dps). I played dps operative and I top damage charts on my team, top killing blows on my team, and retain 10+ medals almost every match (I AM out played from time to time but mostly I perform better than most).

 

 

^ Now that was in response to you claiming I only roll FOTM, a term used by idiots in attempt to discredit valid claims (similar to crooked lawyers).

 

 

After looking at forums in general I can see 90% of the people who come here come to complain and/or whine about something (naturally). So you "claiming" that "everyone" playing a healer spec/class is being legit about their claims means nothing to me considering bioware itself has been quoted for saying healing is too powerful along with all the mathematical evidence provided (and that i'm about to provide again for you since I know you are special).

 

 

Now to refer to the red highlight in your post, you "hope the pendulum swings the other way to DPS" except you fail to realize that DPS has been gimped since day 1 of expertise.

 

 

Math pre 1.2:

 

1000 damage * 1.13 (for a 13% expertise) = 1130 damage

 

1130 incoming damage is now reduced by 13% mitigation --> 1130 - (1130*0.13) = 983.1 damage.

 

 

Quit being dumb and bad. Healers are STILL laughing in the face of dps, as a DPS (0-31-10) operative with 0 points in healing I can out heal a tank's dps in combat and laugh. It is so easy and needs fixed.

 

I call BS. There are several tank dps classes that do a lot of damage. My best heal is about 2.6K-2.8K and takes 1.8 seconds to cast with healing spec. It might crit for 5-5K - 5.8K. I assume yours isn't more.

 

The average tank dps hits for 1.5K-2K and crits for 3.5K-4K. In 1.8 seconds, they can get off two attacks for a total of 3K-4K or 6K-8K crits. Now factor in some of their skills have a delay damaged damage. They pop a skill that hits for 1.5K-2K and crits for 4K-5K in a few seconds. I cannot heal that damage because it hasn't hit. They can also pop a DoT on me that ticks for 400-500 damage. Your spec doesn't have HoTs so that DoT would be extra damage. For me, I can negate it if I pre-HoTed.

 

So, if they popped that delayed damage and a DoT on me, you would get hit with 1.5K damage from the first attack, 1.5K damage from second attack, 1.5K from delayed attack that just popped, and 400 from DoT. 5K damage non-crit in 1.5 seconds. Add in crits and it can be 10K damage before I even get a chance to heal any damage. Guess what they are going to do next.... interrupt or stun. We will assume he stuns, you react by breaking it. You just took another 400 damage from that ticking dot. He hits with another 1.5K damage, you start to cast. He hits with another 1.5K damage and then interrupts. You take another 400 damage from tick.

 

So far, you have taken 9K damage non crit and you haven't gotten a heal off.

 

There is no way you can just stand there and try and heal. You would need to stun or blind to get out of melee range or you die. If you can't run, you need to pop cloak.

 

One thing is for sure, you can't stand there and heal.

[Dreydin]

If I came off as wanting to only whine about the specific thing you throw in my face, then your incorrect. Or i didnt emphasize what my complaint is.

 

TIME TO KILL, and how that factors into fun gameplay is my complaint.

[Dreydin]

Since the start of the game, this is my second visit to the forums, and was to specifically try to find out if some changes were made to healing. In short, whatever was changed is HIGHLY noticeable. Played a 50 Sorcerer since launch, and spent 90% of my PVP time as a healer. Ranked up well, Champion+, and then decided to try Rep. Always loved the Trooper look, and again as a Commando I spend almost every WZ as a healer. With the changes, healers will now be non-existent. As someone who very much enjoyed playing a healer I am now at a loss as to what to do with the game. I loved bringing that dynamic to a PvP fight, now I am a distraction at best.

 

This. I guess the way i word things sets off the number crunchers. Well put:)

[Khoraji]

If I came off as wanting to only whine about the specific thing you throw in my face, then your incorrect. Or i didnt emphasize what my complaint is.

 

TIME TO KILL, and how that factors into fun gameplay is my complaint.

 

Ok fine, someone brought up expertise as being the culprit. I think it was JustTray or w/e his name is.

 

Time to kill was way too long pre 1.2. That is my opinion. Your opinion is obviously different. Can we agree that we disagree on this point. Are people dying slightly faster as a result of class changes, yes.

 

Short, intense battles are more enjoyable TO ME.

 

There, we disagree on this..thats the end.

[Gibbzter]

I feel like im back in elementary school.

 

It just blows my mind that the people on this forum and bioware in general couldnt realize that in order to have heals it has to be viable IE you actuallly have to be able to out heal AT LEAST one dps, usually 2-3.

 

This exactly. Like I said earlier, if a healer can't survive a 1v1 against a dps, what good is he? How can he heal the party if he can't even keep himself alive for 5 seconds?

 

Unfortunately BioWare listens to the dps PVE crowd like some in this thread. People coming in this thread saying "fair for everyone" crap has me laughing. Yea, now you bad dps that had no idea what to interrupt can now take out a geared healer in seconds. Bravo.

[Khoraji]

This exactly. Like I said earlier, if a healer can't survive a 1v1 against a dps, what good is he? How can he heal the party if he can't even keep himself alive for 5 seconds?

 

Unfortunately BioWare listens to the dps PVE crowd like some in this thread. People coming in this thread saying "fair for everyone" crap has me laughing. Yea, now you bad dps that had no idea what to interrupt can now take out a geared healer in seconds. Bravo.

 

Look, i was in those "NERF HEALER" threads defending us from the idiots who said 1 DPS should be able to kill 1 healer 1v1. We should be able to heal through 1 dps without breaking our backs (not 2-3-4). And guess what, we still can.

[DarthBathory]

As a Sorcerer healer, I still was able to get a good amount of healing points but I never was able to help the team like I wanted to. Whoever I tried to heal they would end up dying faster than I could heal. Even with my bubble and healing myself in some situations I found myself to die fairly quickly.

 

After those crappy experiences I switched to a lightning/madness hybrid Sorc and did an insane amounts of damage between 300-600k. I don't even care for healing anymore. I'm better off with death field, higher lightning damage, and no lightning cooldowns than using mediocre heals.

[nakoda]

yea, now you bad dps that had no idea what to interrupt can now take out a geared healer in seconds. Bravo.

 

^ +1

[Dreydin]

I think I am going to ditch healing until my sub runs out. And try me some lightning or madness as well. I have been playing a bit on my Arsenal BH. But its still the same. Its a zergfest, any way you look at it. Respawning over and over feels to me, like something kids would enjoy.

 

Were slowly converting into Call of Duty, the MMO. One button kills, apparently strengthen the epeen.

[PostalTwinkie]

/points to the Elephant in the room....

 

All of you doing math are leaving out several very very very very important variables in your math!

 

1. Activation time, channel time, of abilities.
   
2. How much abilities are "knocked back" during casting, increasing activation time.
   
3. Cool downs of abilities.
   

 

The problem with the numbers and scenario you have presented is that it only applies to a situation where players are basically trading blows, I hit him he hits me, nothing going on between. This isn't how fights play out, players engage and throw out everything they can as quick as the can.

 

Why does that matter?

 

Because as a healer when I am casting, even with the buff from talents, when I take damage my activation/channel on my spell is knocked back a little. Thus increasing my cast time on a given spell, effectively lowering my Healing Per Second. In reciprocate to that if I hit a Marauder who is in my face, his rate of attack isn't lowered. He isn't being effected by "Spell Knockback", thus his DPS is maintained as their primary rotation doesn't have channel abilities to knockback casting of.

 

Prior to 1.2 just having someone engage a healer greatly lowered their Healing Per Second, and usually completely removed them from a fight, even if they didn't die. Instead people chose to ignore us giving us free run of the field to keep our team alive. They then proceeded to QQ about how effective we were, because we were simply ignored, to the point that BioWare made these changes.

 

So again...

 

Your math is a flat value that really doesn't apply to active play because it doesn't account for DPS vs HPS as effected by spell knockback and other factors that reduce the healers ability to actually cast the spell. If I am moving, I am not busting out heals (lowering my HPS), if I am being effected by spell knockback I am not getting the heals off as quick (lowering my HPS).

Edited April 18, 2012 by PostalTwinkie

[Dreydin]

/points to the Elephant in the room....

 

All of you doing math are leaving out several very very very very important variables in your math!

 

1. Activation time, channel time, of abilities.
   
2. How much abilities are "knocked back" during casting, increasing activation time.
   
3. Cool downs of abilities.
   

 

The problem with the numbers and scenario you have presented is that it only applies to a situation where players are basically trading blows, I hit him he hits me, nothing going on between. This isn't how fights play out, players engage and throw out everything they can as quick as the can.

 

Why does that matter?

 

Because as a healer when I am casting, even with the buff from talents, when I take damage my activation/channel on my spell is knocked back a little. Thus increasing my cast time on a given spell, effectively lowering my Healing Per Second. In reciprocate to that if I hit a Marauder who is in my face, his rate of attack isn't lowered. He isn't being effected by "Spell Knockback", thus his DPS is maintained as their primary rotation doesn't have channel abilities to knockback casting of.

 

Prior to 1.2 just having someone engage a healer greatly lowered their Healing Per Second, and usually completely removed them from a fight, even if they didn't die. Instead people chose to ignore us giving us free run of the field to keep our team alive. They then proceeded to QQ about how effective we were, because we were simply ignored, to the point that BioWare made these changes.

 

So again...

 

Your math is a flat value that really doesn't apply to active play because it doesn't account for DPS vs HPS as effected by spell knockback and other factors that reduce the healers ability to actually cast the spell. If I am moving, I am not busting out heals (lowering my HPS), if I am being effected by spell knockback I am not getting the heals off as quick (lowering my HPS).

 

In one of my previous posts, this is what I was trying to get at. But because I am not proficient in math, I am not sure I worded it right. Raw stat VS raw stat comparison, seems off to me. Considering there is so MANY other factors, like mentioned above. I described it in my wording like using throughput variables in a burst situation. You might have math thats undeniable, but doesnt apply to reality.

[Gibbzter]

Look, i was in those "NERF HEALER" threads defending us from the idiots who said 1 DPS should be able to kill 1 healer 1v1. We should be able to heal through 1 dps without breaking our backs (not 2-3-4). And guess what, we still can.

 

Yep we can, just tanked one last night to be honest that didn't even try to interrupt and let me free cast like a nice guy. Player had poor gear judging from looks, hp, and saber color. Any sorc/sage can survive against bad, poorly geared players.

[Dreydin]

Yep we can, just tanked one last night to be honest that didn't even try to interrupt and let me free cast like a nice guy. Player had poor gear judging from looks, hp, and saber color. Any sorc/sage can survive against bad, poorly geared players.

 

I know pre 1.2, at some points I could have 5 people hitting me, not interrupting, not hitting me for much. And it was godly. Then there was times a single dude would roll up and shut me down like nothing. Even in my overpowered state, as a Sorc healer. Now I see people in my own guild that are wearing recruit gear, and I am full BM, and I'm running away from them. Because they know how to interrupt and shut me down.

 

While we needed some small burst nerfs, maybe a longer cooldown on shield, and possibly some co-efficient changes. They went way too far.

 

My arsenal BH with crap recruit gear, now specifically hunts Sorcs, cause I can kill em so fast!

[Gibbzter]

I know pre 1.2, at some points I could have 5 people hitting me, not interrupting, not hitting me for much. And it was godly. Then there was times a single dude would roll up and shut me down like nothing. Even in my overpowered state, as a Sorc healer. Now I see people in my own guild that are wearing recruit gear, and I am full BM, and I'm running away from them. Because they know how to interrupt and shut me down.

 

While we needed some small burst nerfs, maybe a longer cooldown on shield, and possibly some co-efficient changes. They went way too far.

 

My arsenal BH with crap recruit gear, now specifically hunts Sorcs, cause I can kill em so fast!

 

I feel your pain Drey and totally agree!

Edited April 18, 2012 by Notannos
quote + reply to rude

[PostalTwinkie]

Yep we can, just tanked one last night to be honest that didn't even try to interrupt and let me free cast like a nice guy. Player had poor gear judging from looks, hp, and saber color. Any sorc/sage can survive against bad, poorly geared players.

 

Any class should be able to survive a bad player, in any game! If I am a master level Chess player I should be able to beat any bad player. But if I play another Chess master it should be relatively even, with the winner being whoever happen to be the sharpest of the two at that engagement. My point is that right now with 1.2 when a Healer is faced with a DPS of equal skill the Healer dies, not they tie each other up, the Healer just dies.

 

BioWares way of balancing is like trying to balance gravel loads on a scale by the 10 Yard dump truck. Instead of making small changes, seeing how they effect balance, they just pile on a **** ton at once and try to balance.

[Gibbzter]

Any class should be able to survive a bad player, in any game! If I am a master level Chess player I should be able to beat any bad player. But if I play another Chess master it should be relatively even, with the winner being whoever happen to be the sharpest of the two at that engagement. My point is that right now with 1.2 when a Healer is faced with a DPS of equal skill the Healer dies, not they tie each other up, the Healer just dies.

 

BioWares way of balancing is like trying to balance gravel loads on a scale by the 10 Yard dump truck. Instead of making small changes, seeing how they effect balance, they just pile on a **** ton at once and try to balance.

 

I totally agree with you. I was replying to the guy that said we can still 1v1 anyone and have no problems surviving.

 

An equal geared smart dps can lock us down in seconds.

[mikegr]

I always wanted to see how an mmo played with no healers. Why not just give everyone one heal and do away with the healing class completely? Everyone could play a dps and not have to worry about developing any tactics or skill. Edited April 18, 2012 by Notannos
quote

[Metalmac]

I always wanted to see how an mmo played with no healers. Why not just give everyone one heal and do away with the healing class completely? Everyone could play a dps and not have to worry about developing any tactics or skill.

 

Yet another DPS only viewpoint.

[Zaranok]

The players I am healing and the healing charts would disagree with you. I have adapted as well as person can. The difference between me and your friend, is he is complacent and doesnt require lube.

 

I, on the other hand. Wont pay for a slap in the face. I never wanted god mode. But i sure do want to feel like I am having fun. And it doesnt matter which of my toons I play. The end result is the same...ZERGFEST

 

 

 

 

The changes before 1.2 were basicly freaking god-mode for healers. they could have 2-3 dps sitting on top of them in many cases and still be able to run around keeping themselfs up with no effort at all barelly (especially if you were fully BM geared) those are the kind of changes you want back by the looks of your post (the times you had fun)

 

There hasnt been any real changes barelly before 1.2 in terms of damage which means that these are sorts of things you enjoyed. The moment this changed to something slightly worse for yourself (the way you saw yourself with your character) you came here raging about it

Edited April 18, 2012 by Zaranok

[PostalTwinkie]

Balance? A single DPS being able to drop a single Healer isn't balance, that is unbalanced! The opposite of Damage is Healing.

 

Balance would be a situation of where a DPS attacks a Healer and they just tie each other up, and if both players play their respective class at its most optimal point, they would be there indefinitely. The only deciding factor in this conflict being who makes the first mistake and misses a CD or spell, i.e; Player skill! Why? Because in this situation they balance each other out. The total healing output of a single Healer over time is exactly that of a single DPS over time.

 

But that isn't the case. DPS attacks healer, healer dies, DPS goes back to attacking another target. DPS is currently higher than HPS in this game.

 

Another scenario....

 

Player A is fighting Player B, but Player B has Player C healing him. Player A isn't fighting against Player B at this point, but actually fighting against Player C. So what should happen? Player A either needs to go and attack Player C, or have a team member engage Player C directly or Player B to bring him down.

 

What do SWTOR players do instead? They QQ to BioWare because they feel they should be able to kill that other player even though that person is being healed! Or that they should be able to instantly explode the Healer and go back and finish off the original target. Again, as I previously stated, people ignored healers and went QQ instead of learning how to PROPERLY deal with them.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Notannos
quote

[Dreydin]

"I have adapted as well as person can"

 

If you really had been able to adapt well enough to the changes (like the ones who arent rushing to these forums and crying about it) you wouldnt be here in the first place ************ about it

 

 

The changes before 1.2 were basicly freaking god-mode for healers. they could have 2-3 dps sitting on top of them in many cases and still be able to run around keeping themselfs up with no effort at all barelly (especially if you were fully BM geared) those are the kind of changes you want back by the looks of your post (the times you had fun)

 

One more time for ya. I have been able to adapt, as well as a person can, while not being a bend over for Bioware. And your second paragraph is not worthy of my response, as you have had it explained to you over and over. So your either choosing to not acknowledge it, or its simply slipping right by you.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Dreydin

[Zaranok]

One more time for ya. I have been able to adapt, as well as a person can, while not being a bend over for Bioware. And your second paragraph is not worthy of my response, as you have had it explained to you over and over. So your either choosing to not acknowledge it, or its simply slipping right by you.

 

And this whole thread together with all these lame cry posts arent worth even the slightest attention to Bioware because in the end YOU and the rest of these pro healers in this thread are one simple thing that really wont change

 

BAD

 

You can all deny it as much as you want the whole bunch of you.

 

In the end the rest of you will disappear and the good bunch of healers in this game (who are adapting) will remain

 

Cya

Edited April 18, 2012 by Zaranok

[Khoraji]

/points to the Elephant in the room....

 

All of you doing math are leaving out several very very very very important variables in your math!

 

1. Activation time, channel time, of abilities.
   
2. How much abilities are "knocked back" during casting, increasing activation time.
   
3. Cool downs of abilities.
   

 

The problem with the numbers and scenario you have presented is that it only applies to a situation where players are basically trading blows, I hit him he hits me, nothing going on between. This isn't how fights play out, players engage and throw out everything they can as quick as the can.

 

Why does that matter?

 

Because as a healer when I am casting, even with the buff from talents, when I take damage my activation/channel on my spell is knocked back a little. Thus increasing my cast time on a given spell, effectively lowering my Healing Per Second. In reciprocate to that if I hit a Marauder who is in my face, his rate of attack isn't lowered. He isn't being effected by "Spell Knockback", thus his DPS is maintained as their primary rotation doesn't have channel abilities to knockback casting of.

 

Prior to 1.2 just having someone engage a healer greatly lowered their Healing Per Second, and usually completely removed them from a fight, even if they didn't die. Instead people chose to ignore us giving us free run of the field to keep our team alive. They then proceeded to QQ about how effective we were, because we were simply ignored, to the point that BioWare made these changes.

 

So again...

 

Your math is a flat value that really doesn't apply to active play because it doesn't account for DPS vs HPS as effected by spell knockback and other factors that reduce the healers ability to actually cast the spell. If I am moving, I am not busting out heals (lowering my HPS), if I am being effected by spell knockback I am not getting the heals off as quick (lowering my HPS).

 

The math posts were in response to the argument that expertise is the culprit in the healing nerf

Edited April 18, 2012 by Khoraji

[Khoraji]

The fact remains that healers are still out-healing dps.

 

Look at the scoreboards, DPS numbers never come close to healing numbers.