The penalties for losing are TOO severe

[xserchux]

I am pretty sure he is pulling stuff out of his behind. No way he can get 60 comms for losing unless it is a very close match and he is in top dps / healing and is able to get 8+ comms every single time.

 

So i call bull on it.

 

Of course since you can't it's impossible.. Yes I usually top dps. Yes I play the objective. No I don't medal farm . I get them legit by playing the game. I don't play wz's by making believe I'm I'n a death match. I plant bombs score I'n huttball defend nodes etc. I never get less than 40 comms I'n a loss.

 

I'm also not foolish enough to stay I'n a wz that I's already I'n progress and almost done. I just leave and reque. I also never leave a wz that I start.

 

I'm also not on a dead server nor am I a baddie.

[KrackenOne]

Even the winning WZ rewards were nerfed (credits & XP).

[GrandOracle]

The problem I's when does bioware stop giving I'n to the complainers. What happens when gear I's equal and the complainers still get rolled? What next?

 

Can you imagine the whine when rated comes out and little Timmy can't crack 2k. What happens then?

 

I say make all classes exactly the same replace sabers with wiffle bats and guns with air soft.. Everyone does 1 damage , and if you are about to lose a 1v1 you can call a time out.

 

 

Maybe this will make people happy. Because as it stands no matter what people will complain.

 

Nice approach - so everyone that sees a problem is a complainer and not trying to address what they see as a serious issue that could kill or seriously degrade an important part of the game.

 

The issues many players are speaking about are due to a recent change, they are not attempts to change the system as it originally stood - so are you saying, no matter how it was, if you voice a concern about a recent change then what we really want is no competition, no differences. Not a very compelling comment.

[Ushela]

The losing rewards aren't too severe, what's wrong is that there is even less reason for people to stick around in a losing WZ. There needs to be punishments for bailing.

 

I'm tired of people bailing as soon as the other team gets 2 nodes in Alderaan or scores fast in Huttball. It puts me at a disadvantage of having less people on my team even though I'm the one trying to play.

 

Leaving a WZ needs to be fixed. Prevents me from joining some losing effort after a 20 minute rate and keeps people held accountable for queuing.

 

I don't get why people think they should win everything and still get something for a terrible effort or being a baddie. Worst case scenario you get owned by a better team even though you're good. It happens. Sometimes life is hard. Keep at it and you'll still make progress.

 

Maybe if the losers didnt get shafted as far as comms go people wouldnt quit. Sorry, but if BW is gonna screw me w comms for a loss then you better not punish me for leaving. Either, make losing the match still worth the time invested and have a quit penalty, or keep the current system. Getting nothing for losing AND penalized for quitting? Thats an auto desub for me..

[JohnnyGatt]

The 1.15 system gives too much reward for losing.

No one even bothers to win after getting 4 medals.

The losing player gets 80 medals while the winning players gets 100. How is that even a good system? The system right now is a good change.

 

Yep is good that's why we can not get a full team on my server 6 game and not 1 full people log in and quit... so yes If you don't want people playing its a good system.

[Gorrdan]

Of course since you can't it's impossible.. Yes I usually top dps. Yes I play the objective. No I don't medal farm . I get them legit by playing the game. I don't play wz's by making believe I'm I'n a death match. I plant bombs score I'n huttball defend nodes etc. I never get less than 40 comms I'n a loss.

 

I'm also not foolish enough to stay I'n a wz that I's already I'n progress and almost done. I just leave and reque. I also never leave a wz that I start.

 

I'm also not on a dead server nor am I a baddie.

 

 

Yeah you are a one man army dude we get it. You do it all and score 60 comms in every match even when you lose. I was wondering when the token 'i am not baddie' guy will show up.

 

By the way not everyone is dps, healers and tanks exist too. And these classes are having the worst time since they end up getting 15 to 20 comms every losing match if they stick to doing their job instead of focusing more on how be one man army and gather as many medals as possible in a losing match. or you would rather have tanks and healer hug the turrets too instead of helping the team?

 

And you completely ignored people joining in as fresh 50 in recruit gear against BM /Warhero premades. They can't even stay up long enough to blink, forget about doing anything else in warzone.

 

Must be nice in your world where everything revolves only around you.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Gorrdan

[Respex]

how is it that you (BioWare) can justify not rewarding people for there time? regardless if we win or lose.. obviously the winners should receive more of a reward but to punish the people that lost ... whom might i add also spent ~15 min of there lives in a WZ .. not get rewards even worth the time of sitting in a WZ i think 20 medals or 0 medals you should still get credit... because guess what... YOU IMPLEMENTED AN AFK KICK OPTION FOR A REASON ... if your AFK you will get kicked and get to rewards.... but at the same time at least at the moment if someone is AFK and they get booted chances are the team that lost that player is now at a disadvantage if even for a few seconds and has a higher chance of losing the match and now receive a sub par reward for all the hard work im assuming they put in to pick up the loss of a teammate... jujst saying you guys royally ****ed that one up and i know i large base of players in SWTOR is PvP oriented you guys need to fix your **** and stop ruining the PvP in this game...

[warkat]

This patch dumps all over low pop servers which is 99% of all Servers....you get 40 commendations if u are lucky its hard to get 4 medals vs a Premade when you team is full of 13k hp alts....and u keep getting premades when ur on a dead server even if u que solo...i can't see to many people sticking around when its gonna take 3 months to get war hero with the mass lose fest.

[AlyxDinas]

I will say that I favor some type of penalty for the losing side. But I think it needs to be a penalty which a) doesn't depreciate gains such that people feel they have a poor investment for their time and effort and b) needs to keep losers relatively competitive in the long run.

 

As it stands, we're going to see a wider gulf between winning and losing factions. And while that gulf might have a cap on it in terms of how far ahead people can progress, if people are getting completely shut out on gains even if they put in effort, it's going to reach a point where there is a legitimate disadvantage at hand that player skill or coordination can only match so well.

[QuickBunnie]

If the match is close, the new reward system is ok, but if there is even a hint that the match will be bad, the lack of incentive for the losing side causes people to quit. Now you have people entering a losing match, which of course leads to them quitting as well.

 

IMHO, the system was probably designed to help alleviate the AFKers, but I think, subjectively, that a lot of people who would have stuck around and tried (not AFK'ed) are actually quitting now.

[FauzyB]

Just thought i'd add my 2 cents to the topic.

 

Pre-1.2, i loved PvPing, i'm in a small guild of friends and we're all just casual gamers, we can hold our own but don't play all the time, hardcore. We used to pvp a fair bit, we'd have a few people on a night and we'd group up and pvp for a few hours, completing the now non-existant pvp missions and even if we lost every time, we had fun.

 

Now post-1.2, i think i've played in 4 wz matches, some of my friends even less. It's not that we don't have the time to, we just don't want to anymore, it's no longer fun. We work hard to complete the objectives in wz's but now, you get shafted on the comms if you don't win.

 

 

This is a game BW, it's supposed to be fun, for everyone.

[zerosaint]

I think it's time for me to take a break from SWTOR. I win more matches than I lose, but honestly at the end of the day- I don't like to waste my time. It just isn't fun. And I'm not going to play something that isn't fun.

 

If BW manages to give an incentive to pvp again, well I'll probably come back for a bit. but this is just meh. I have my job for a timesink.

[balcmusic]

So the penalty of losing are in huttball tonight. My friend and I played together in the same room - 2 different accounts. His team lost huttball 0-6. My team won. His penalty for losing was to get 13K XP and metals, mine was to get 7K XP and metals.

[xserchux]

Nice approach - so everyone that sees a problem is a complainer and not trying to address what they see as a serious issue that could kill or seriously degrade an important part of the game.

 

The issues many players are speaking about are due to a recent change, they are not attempts to change the system as it originally stood - so are you saying, no matter how it was, if you voice a concern about a recent change then what we really want is no competition, no differences. Not a very compelling comment.

 

No but the amount of whine about everything remotely tuff I's amazing . To me it's as if most people want free rewards without earning it. Only the vocal minority are having trouble getting coms . Credits or lack of them was addressed by bioware it was not a secret . If you rely on wz credits for income you're doing it wrong.

 

Now I won't argue about getting screwed by joining an already progressed losing wz... But dang if you know you will get zero rewards why do you stay?

[zerosaint]

No but the amount of whine about everything remotely tuff I's amazing . To me it's as if most people want free rewards without earning it. Only the vocal minority are having trouble getting coms . Credits or lack of them was addressed by bioware it was not a secret . If you rely on wz credits for income you're doing it wrong.

 

Now I won't argue about getting screwed by joining an already progressed losing wz... But dang if you know you will get zero rewards why do you stay?

 

No matter what justifications you bring to the table... this is a game... and as a game, the changes make it unfun for a lot of people. I understand that the internet-awesome-pvp crowd see eSports in a different light but many don't.

 

There was really nothing wrong with the old system. I really ... really do not recall anyone complaining about the way things were.

[Aelannor]

No but the amount of whine about everything remotely tuff I's amazing . To me it's as if most people want free rewards without earning it. Only the vocal minority are having trouble getting coms . Credits or lack of them was addressed by bioware it was not a secret . If you rely on wz credits for income you're doing it wrong.

 

Now I won't argue about getting screwed by joining an already progressed losing wz... But dang if you know you will get zero rewards why do you stay?

 

Why are you against skill based PvP?

[DragonAgeOrgins]

It's amazing to me how they could take a fun thing in PVP. Despite all the bugs and what not. I could normally do PVP all day and have fun while I am doing it. I try my best in ever WZ but when your losing you feel like your time is wasted.

 

People do not like that disappointing feeling like they just spent time on something that's not worth it and sad thing is when you are grouped with random strangers it's hard to control that. What's your options? Be more vocal with team mates? and that doesn't work?

 

They took this game that supposed make you feel super strong at a low level and nefed that with updates. Now I feel like I'm barely doing any damage to the other guy and this thing they could have done maybe to encourage people to "work harder to win" only is going to end up frustrating the user base.

 

I played maybe two PVP in past week. It just isn't fun to get nothing out of 15 minutes to work. How are we supposed have credits for repair, where is the push to get us in PVP besides just waiting for the next quene to pop. I sometimes stay online all day and I still frustrated so I can just imagine the people who have less time to spend.

 

I sincerely hope they pull this tatic around because It's making me waiting for other MMO's to come out.

[Shakaroth]

This is just a thought about how i see it.... its no flame or whine.. just how it is on my server.

 

First of all, as mentioned somewhere here in this thread, on my server its often, that a warzone starts when we ( reps ) have only 4-6 ppl in the team, while the opponents have 8 ppl. I would like that warzones would start when both factions have 8 ppl in team. Still u have the quitters but at least u start with a full team.

 

Second, i dont mind really the changes they made with the comms and stuff in the warzones... IF... and only IF.. the win/loose ratio would have been better. Out of 10 warzones reps play they loose 7-8 of them.

Maybe its just that reps are worst playing than imps, maybe its cause 70% is imp and 30% rep on my server, i dont know.

But from start reps had more difficulty to get their gear together than imps, ( for example in ilum where imps out numbered the reps 3 to 1 ) and that difference will become bigger and bigger with this system as it is now.

 

So what i think the problem is, is that the reps never be able to catch up, and that it will get harder and harder to get ur gear. At least on my server. Maybe server-crossing pvp will fix this ?

 

I know, that taking hours, just to win 3 warzones for your daily, is a pain in the bud. And i dont mind that it takes 3 hours, but 6-7 somethimes.. is a real pain.

 

Before i get flamed, again, this is just a thought. I just want to know if there are more ppl expierence this.

[ErisktheRed]

I don't get what BW is doing with PvP... if these were ranked WZs I may feel a LITTLE differently... where it's about ratings/ranks and competition. Even then it's harsh.

 

I don't think a losing team should get what the winning team gets at all, 90% ppl here agree, BUT getting zero anything to a pathetic amount of comms/credits/xp... is absurd. Why would I stay in say an Alderaan match where it's clear we're losing... pre 1.2 ppl still fighting a losing battle to the end... in 1.2 you do that to get zero anything for it? Sorry, it's not the thrill of PvP only when u NEED comms/etc for better gear - what a complete waste of time. Why fight a losing battle to the end now just leave no incentive to stay for zero to 20 comms?

 

I've played close games and gotten around 40... almost 50, that's actually fine by me losing team shouldn't get near the winning team, but it seems really inconsistent I've also gotten zero even being in the WZ whole time. Almost like a bug. I've seen so many leave than ever, and hate to say I've left WZs which I rarely have pre 1.2 even the worst losses.

 

Reality - servers are imbalanced... many low pop - with such a harsh penalty the rich keep getting richer and poor poorer happens. Imbalance grows. Make a premade isn't the sole answer or means a win pre-ranked. Many new 50s how will they get enough comms to try and get BM gear or whatever?

 

This isn't about afkers I've hardly seen afkers pre 1.2... or for not doing much in a WZ I know many who have and gotten zero with a loss. I think the system has bugs. I hope anyways.

Edited April 15, 2012 by ErisktheRed

[xserchux]

Just loaded game lost my first two wz's first loss was 40 comms second game was 49 comms .. I think that's legit for a loss .. What do you guys expect 90 for a win 89 for a loss?

[DragonAgeOrgins]

Just loaded game lost my first two wz's first loss was 40 comms second game was 49 comms .. I think that's legit for a loss .. What do you guys expect 90 for a win 89 for a loss?

 

We expect what we have been getting since release. In Pre Launch we got a nice amount of EXP, and credits. They nerfed the experience so it was now even harder to enjoy it but I can get over that.

 

However to give us zero credits. Really. I know they want to appeal to super elite. Blizzard did that HUGE MISTAKE. That's the quickest way to kill a mmo. The data speaks for itself. Harder is not more fun.

 

We should get same credits and based on medals we should get the rest. When you are halfway in and you KNOW your going lose. I'd least like get something out of it. But nothing for effort.

 

Again. Huge massive mountation hill of a mistake. It's the mistakes of all mistakes. Fix it.

[FauzyB]

Just loaded game lost my first two wz's first loss was 40 comms second game was 49 comms .. I think that's legit for a loss .. What do you guys expect 90 for a win 89 for a loss?

 

No but before 1.2, i could get 70 comms in a loss by working hard to complete objectives, that at leats made sure i was still having fun and gave me enough incentive to work for that, now i put in the same effort and i get 40, if i'm lucky.

 

Why couldn't they do it this way, put it back to how it was, but winning side gets, say 25-50 bonus comms.

[iiell]

BioWare, you did the right thing. DO NOT reward people who do not want to participate in doing objectives. The rewards are perfectly fine.

 

Really bad losses net you 0-25 comms.

Bad losses net you 26-35 comms.

Averages losses net you 36-45 comms.

Close losses net you 46-60 comms.

 

This is how it should be. There is no reason why people who refuse to try to win and help their team win be rewarded well. Unfortunately the whole team has to suffer, but that's what happens in Team Oriented games. Eventually this "instant gratification" crowd will move on and the people who actually enjoy the game will continue to play it.

 

Thank you!

Edited April 15, 2012 by iiell

[iiell]

We expect what we have been getting since release.

 

The system changed, thus the rewards changed. Welcome to MMOs. You know...they change quite often....

[DragonAgeOrgins]

BioWare, you did the right thing. DO NOT reward people who do not want to participate in doing objectives. The rewards are perfectly fine.

 

Really bad loses net you 0-25 comms.

Bad loses net you 26-35 comms.

Averages loses net you 36-45 comms.

Close losses net you 46-60 comms.

 

This is how it should be. There is no reason why people who refuse to try to win and help their team win be rewarded well. Unfortunately the whole team has to suffer, but that's what happens in Team Oriented games. Eventually this "instant gratification" crowd will move on and the people who actually enjoy the game will continue to play it.

 

Thank you!

 

Are you going bail the company out if they go free to play. I need to outline the MMO's that made thing's harder and drove away the customers. The majority of users are complaining about this issue.

 

Look at the forums. They are lighting up like a tree with people overwhelming rejecting this new system. Yes legacy is a great change of pace but for some PVP was few things we could enjoy and get something based on what we did.