The penalties for losing are TOO severe

[maelstormx]

Believe whatever you want to believe. Commendations are currency for everything. Not just consumables.

 

There is no penalty for losing a warzone. In fact, 40 commendation reward is still too much. It should have been 30.

 

Are you being arrogant or can you not understand the problem here? If one team is composed mostly of fresh 50s or as you call it bads ( because we all know people like YOU popped out of their mothers womb in full BM) then it is logical that said team will lose. And no one will ever argue that, however why penalize to such an extreme the better players that perform and dont waste their time fighting away from the objectives? Medals should mean something, and as is they mean nothing at all. Infact the current system encourages decent players to leave the WZ instead of staying in and fighting!

[DarthBeelzebub]

I dont think its broke there makeing you work as a team and you get rewarded for it if you win if you dont work the objectives then your not going to get anything, this is the way team base PVP should be everyone has to work tgether to achive it so all those crying about this is so unfair get over it.

[xxdragonragexx]

Are you being arrogant or can you not understand the problem here? If one team is composed mostly of fresh 50s or as you call it bads ( because we all know people like YOU popped out of their mothers womb in full BM) then it is logical that said team will lose. And no one will ever argue that, however why penalize to such an extreme the better players that perform and dont waste their time fighting away from the objectives? Medals should mean something, and as is they mean nothing at all. Infact the current system encourages decent players to leave the WZ instead of staying in and fighting!

 

Medals shouldn't mean anything. Getting a medal for a heal crit, randomly guarding someone, or tagging people for kills are far too easy. Only way to get commendations should have be winning. Losing should get 30 or below. It has always been like that in most MMO and other games.

 

Winners usually get 3 tokens while losers get 1. In this case, winners should get 100 while losers get 30. Getting 40 commendation just for playing 2-3 minutes and afking is already too much of a reward.

[Sinrei]

You honestly want to be rewarded for failing!? How about we just cry until BW just gives us the endgame armour without having to do anything but walk into the operation and say boo to the bosses till they give up the shiney's.

 

You are the 99%, don't want to work for rewards just get everything handed to you because you wanted to play.

 

As a note, I am not an elitest nor am I in any way a PVP God, I am a mediocre player and I'm not crying about anything. Well anything other than there are way to many servers for the amount of sub's for the game.

 

Jesus christ you're even more of a drama queen than the OP. The OP is correct and makes a valid statement. Sure you shouldn't be rewarded the same as the winning team but the penalty for being stuck with scrubs who don't work together is just stupid. I lost quite a few matches last night because the other four idiots on my team decided to go lone wolf...one sorc healer tried continously taking a turret in NC while it was being guarded by a MARAUDER/SENT. HA GL with that. Least to say his KDR wasn't in the green.

 

No one is saying give us gear but goto hell if you think I'll be spending upwards of 15 hours of grinding a piece. You should earn it yes but with this broken system I'll hit Valor Rank 100 before I even fully gear up (I'm V74)...thats how it feels anyways.

 

---

 

At this rate the gear difference will be insane. Damage is already out of control but add in massive gear gaps and I sincerely pity any new player. I'm fully BM and I'm getting 3 shot on my Jugg.

 

---

 

Try to think rationally before you respond with silly replies to a valid grievance.

[xxdragonragexx]

The OP is incorrect in so many ways also.

The majority of MMO players reroll alts once they get max gear for their main.

Fact is, majority of people in MMO don't pvp for the sake of pvp. They pvp for gear.

It is what happened last month too. The moment people got battlemaster gear, they either quit or reroll. Hardly anyone tried to enjoy their max characters. MMO players are addicted to progression. They are not addicted to player vs player or dungeon crawling. There are tons of better games for that.

 

The underpopulated side usually wins due to the fact that the populated side or faction has new/fresh 50s all the time while the faction with less population do not have the same problem.

[pinchbottom]

The OP is incorrect in so many ways also.

The majority of MMO players reroll alts once they get max gear for their main.

Fact is, majority of people in MMO don't pvp for the sake of pvp. They pvp for gear.

It is what happened last month too. The moment people got battlemaster gear, they either quit or reroll. Hardly anyone tried to enjoy their max characters. MMO players are addicted to progression. They are not addicted to player vs player or dungeon crawling. There are tons of better games for that.

 

The underpopulated side usually wins due to the fact that the populated side or faction has new/fresh 50s all the time while the faction with less population do not have the same problem.

 

rofl.

[Brool]

Maybe you should consider then how many people will unsub, when they lose game after game because of the gear gap. Few people find it fun to get farmed for 94 credits per match.

 

Then again, what can you expect from the pvp team that considers kill trading a form of legitimate pvp.

 

gear gap is no where near what it was. You can buy the first tier of pvp gear right out the gate with credits.

 

People are blowing things way out of proportion. I've yet to have a 0 coms match or a 94 credit match.

[xxdragonragexx]

rofl.

 

ROFL@U. Either you know it or you don't. Simple fact is that if people played with their main with the same frequency when they were trying to get battlemaster gear, we will see a lot of valor 80+ players but that isn't the case. Most of the players you will see are only at 65-70 valor. The valor is even super easy to get with the last couple of patches. Yet most characters have not reached valor 70.

[Kanana]

The 1.15 system gives too much reward for losing.

No one even bothers to win after getting 4 medals.

The losing player gets 80 medals while the winning players gets 100. How is that even a good system? The system right now is a good change.

 

No, it is not, it makes people pvp less. First and foremost a pvp system needs to make people pvp - the new changes do not do that.

[JMCH]

The OP is incorrect in so many ways also.

The majority of MMO players reroll alts once they get max gear for their main.

Fact is, majority of people in MMO don't pvp for the sake of pvp. They pvp for gear.

As far as I know, I don't know anyone in this case... PvP exclusively for gear is like... PvE exclusively for gear, or crafting exclusively for the über lvl 49 purple item which has absolutely no use.

 

If you PvP for gear, then I'd say you absolutely didn't understand what an MMO is, but as it seems BW doesn't either you're probably on the game you need...

[xxdragonragexx]

No, it is not, it makes people pvp less. First and foremost a pvp system needs to make people pvp - the new changes do not do that.

 

Doesn't matter if people have to spend 6 months non-stop playing to get max gear. They will do it. They will do the most monotonous unfun things just for gear. If people think about it, how much fun is it to play the same 3 warzone over and over for weeks just to get battlemaster? A free 10 yr old fps game will be so much more enjoyable yet people still play the 3 warzone over and over for a long time.

 

People will do anything just to get gear. Doesn't matter if it is fun or not. Retaining players in MMO is about prolonging the gear grind first before making the game fun. With the new changes, people will spend a lot more time trying to get gear and less time thinking about the serious flaws of this game.

 

The fact that people are more concerned about the changes to the gear grind rather than changes to abilities, healing, pvp, and balancing proves my point.

 

 

As far as I know, I don't know anyone in this case... PvP exclusively for gear is like... PvE exclusively for gear, or crafting exclusively for the über lvl 49 purple item which has absolutely no use.

 

If you PvP for gear, then I'd say you absolutely didn't understand what an MMO is, but as it seems BW doesn't either you're probably on the game you need...

 

 

MMO is all about gear progression. You don't understand what a MMO is. You must be new to the genre.

Edited April 13, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[Ritterific]

The current system is exactly like the OP said. You are now PUNISHED for losing. I'm not sure what strange alternate universe that the developers live in where people want to get punished for losing to a better team, but it's certainly not the universe I live in.

 

Everyone should get a standard reward with the winners getting a BONUS for winning. Seriously, punishing people for playing the game is not how you get people to continue subscribing. The warzone reward system needs to be redone, or at least reverted to the previous incarnation where people could lose and still feel like they spent their time well and had a little fun.

 

Maybe BW is trying to get more people to play through the poorly implemented Flashpoints by making the rewards for PvP worse the poor rewards from FP's...

[Ritterific]

Doesn't matter if people have to spend 6 months non-stop playing to get max gear. They will do it. They will do the most monotonous unfun things just for gear. If people think about it, how much fun is it to play the same 3 warzone over and over for weeks just to get battlemaster? A free 10 yr old fps game will be so much more enjoyable yet people still play the 3 warzone over and over for a long time.

 

People will do anything just to get gear. Doesn't matter if it is fun or not. Retaining players in MMO is about prolonging the gear grind first before making the game fun. With the new changes, people will spend a lot more time trying to get gear and less time thinking about the serious flaws of this game.

 

The fact that people are more concerned about the changes to the gear grind rather than changes to abilities, healing, pvp, and balancing proves my point.

 

 

 

 

 

MMO is all about gear progression. You don't understand what a MMO is. You must be new to the genre.

 

If what you say is true, then BW should have slashed ALL the rewards for PvP. That is not the case. If you're lucky enough to win a warzone, you get more rewards than you did in 1.1.5 as long as you get your 8 medal minimum.

 

They are not trying to slow down gear acquisition. They are punishing people for losing matches now. Why am I going to keep playing a warzone if I am not going to win it? I'm not, I'm just going to quit and try again in 5 minutes.

 

I always thought that BW wanted to INCREASE participation in warzones and REDUCE the number of people that quit. This current system actually REWARDS PEOPLE FOR QUITTING, as they don't have to wait the full 10 minutes to lose and get nothing. As it stands, the warzone reward system is not good for the game.

[Digtahk]

THE GEAR IS EXTREMELY CHEAP, personally I think 35 is a good number of Coms to get for losing I think the winning team should average 70. The main problem is that if you join a losing game its quite easy to get 0 Coms which is not except able. Anyone who queues up and willingly stays to the end in a game they were not part of from the start should get the same amount of Coms as the highest on their team and anyone who leaves a game they started in should get a 2 hour warzone ban simple.

 

 

50 Hours to get full BM does not even include the daily and weekly rewards which bring this down to around 40 plus 1 piece of Warhero at the end of it all.

 

Server imbalances/low populations is a separate issue that all agree urgently needs solving but this does not just affect PVP and changes should not be made to pvp to cater for this problem. The root problem needs to be addressed.

[Cottyuk]

The majority that 'xxdragonragexx' says is correct.

 

Playing MMO's is a lifestyle choice. A game that has a daily grind, something that keeps your mind focussed on an end goal, is what draws people into continual playing.

 

Let's not forget - Even if I never achieve a full set of the best gear I won't mind becuase the majority of others won't either.

 

Factor in the necessity and urgent need for cross server warzones - something that Bioware have acknowledged - will take away the arguements surrounding unballanced starting games.

 

In fact gear grinding is much lower priority than developing a system to allow warzone matches to start on an equal footing (or at least 8v8) everytime.

 

This thread sorts itself out once the above issue is addressed.

[RobNightfall]

Doesn't matter if people have to spend 6 months non-stop playing to get max gear. They will do it. They will do the most monotonous unfun things just for gear. If people think about it, how much fun is it to play the same 3 warzone over and over for weeks just to get battlemaster? A free 10 yr old fps game will be so much more enjoyable yet people still play the 3 warzone over and over for a long time.

 

People will do anything just to get gear. Doesn't matter if it is fun or not. Retaining players in MMO is about prolonging the gear grind first before making the game fun. With the new changes, people will spend a lot more time trying to get gear and less time thinking about the serious flaws of this game.

 

The fact that people are more concerned about the changes to the gear grind rather than changes to abilities, healing, pvp, and balancing proves my point.

 

 

 

MMO is all about gear progression. You don't understand what a MMO is. You must be new to the genre.

 

See your reasoning about gear is why I, and many other like me, are unsubbing. New games are coming that eliminate the importance of gear. Once again, like it was a long time ago, PvP will return to being about skill, with PvE gear advantages neutralized in PvP encounters. PvP shouldn't be about gear, it should be about fun and skill.

[Darth-Rammstein]

What will happen is people from the start of the game will leave once they see that their team isn't doing too great and that if they lose that they won't get anything out of it so then after they quit alittle while later a new player will join possibly near the end of the game and if they don't quickly scrounge up medals in the remaining time they will get nothing at all. Joining a losing game in progress was already an unpleasant experience to begin with, they just made it ten times worse. Edited April 13, 2012 by Darth-Rammstein

[Adzzy]

while they allow pugs vs premades, you can't punish losing this harshly.

 

Well unless you don't see the endgame of that, where randoms just stop queueing (which has killed a lot of pvp already)

[davidpop]

You dont get enough for winning eiher, 17medals and a wooping 80 comendations lol.....

[Astarica]

I was consistently getting 100 on win and 50-60 on losses. This is from just solo queueing. The most lopsided lost I had was a 300-0 on Alderaan. I didn't actually get any 'games in progress' though you were never going to get good rewards period if you joined a game that looked like 600-0 or variants.

[Kanana]

Doesn't matter if people have to spend 6 months non-stop playing to get max gear. They will do it. They will do the most monotonous unfun things just for gear. If people think about it, how much fun is it to play the same 3 warzone over and over for weeks just to get battlemaster? A free 10 yr old fps game will be so much more enjoyable yet people still play the 3 warzone over and over for a long time.

 

People will do anything just to get gear. Doesn't matter if it is fun or not. Retaining players in MMO is about prolonging the gear grind first before making the game fun. With the new changes, people will spend a lot more time trying to get gear and less time thinking about the serious flaws of this game.

 

The fact that people are more concerned about the changes to the gear grind rather than changes to abilities, healing, pvp, and balancing proves my point.

 

MMO is all about gear progression. You don't understand what a MMO is. You must be new to the genre.

 

If you have to gear up to pvp, then you stop playing altogether if it takes too long. PvP is not PvE. People will simply stop pvping if it turns too much of a grind.

[Shlamorel]

I had 9 medals last match, and we lost, so i got 40 commendations...

 

They punish the losing team too much, to an extent that there is NO point in hanging around if you know you're not going to win...

 

I'm not saying the current system doesn't need tweaking... in fact, I don't like the current way losers of warzones are punished. But let me ask you something, and please know my question is specific to the text i have quoted from you. In other words, I'm agreeing with you that it punishes people too harshly - but I disagree that you say there's "no point to stick around" in a losing warzone (assuming you started from the beginning of the match).

 

In this scenario you give, you have two options: 1.) Stick it out 'til the end and get your 40 commedations from medals (even if you lose) or 2.) Leave, get 0 commedations and try another warzone.

 

Now, if these are the only two options you have, how does the system encourage people to leave? Leaving is a worse penalty than staying. Let's dissect how the two options would unfold.

 

Option 1 - if you leave because you're losing, you just gave up time but get 0 commedations. Sure, you can get into another warzone, but you aren't guranteed to win the next one either. This means you could either end up doing two half-warzones and getting 0 commedations (quit both), doing 1 and a half warzones and getting 40 commedations (quit 1st, lose 2nd but stay), or a maximum of 100 commedations for doing 2 full warzones (quit 1st, win 2nd).

 

Option 2- if you stick it out (whether you keep trying to make a comeback or you sit in a corner to speed up the loss), you should get 40 commedations minimum from medals. Then, you queue for another warzone. This means you should end up with a minimum of 80 commedations (if you lose, but stay, in both), or a maximum of roughly, what, about 140 commedations (if you win the 2nd one and lose the first one).

 

So... here's some interesting data. **(Please click the spoiler tag at bottom of post to see the math involved)**

 

Guranteed minimum comms per minute if you don't quit warzones = 4 comms per minute

Guranteed minimum comms per minute if you quit 1st match = 0 comms per minute

 

Max comms per minute if you don't quit warzones = 10 comms per minute

Max comms per minute if you quit 1st match: 7.69 comms per minute

 

In conclusion you are going to make more commedations per minute by staying in certain-loss warzones than you would if you quit the certain-loss warzones.

 

*See spoiler tag below for the related math.*

 

 

Here's a more simplified way to understand all possible outcomes before delving into the numbers themselves

 

1. Option 1 (leaving the warzone because you're losing)

 

1a. end up with 0 commedations after doing your 1 and a half warzones (if you also lose the 2nd one)

2a. end up with 40 commedations after the the two warzones (if you win the 2nd one)

 

2. Option 2 (stay in the warzone you're losing)

 

2a. End up with a minimum of 80 commedations after doing 2 full warzones (if you lose both)

2b. End up with at least approximately 100-140 warzone commedations after doing 2 full warzones (lose 1st, win 2nd)

2c. End up with 200+ commedations for two full warzones. (if you somehow come out with a win in the first one and win the 2nd one - small chance, but possible).

 

Commedations per minute math (this data is based on the assumption that one quits 3 minutes into the game, and that full warzones that one does not quit last a minimum of 10 minutes.)

 

quit both = 0 commedations for 6 minutes of time = 0 comms per minute

quit 1st, lose second = 40 commedations for 13 minutes of time = 3.08 comms per minute

quit 1st, win second = 100 commedations for 13 minutes of time = 7.69 comms per minute

stick 1st out (lose), lose 2nd = 80 commedations for 20 minutes of time. = 4 comms per minute

stick 1st out (lose), win 2nd = 140+ commedations for 20 minutes of time = 7 comms per minute

stick 1st out (surprise win), win 2nd = 200+ commedations for 20 minutes of time = 10 comms per minute

 

Edited April 13, 2012 by Shlamorel

[Magyarian]

Sorry, not reading the wall of text that pro and con has written to put there agenda forward. I rarely post because this is all the same divide and conquer nonsense and if you maybe kinda sort of offend someone who attacks you then you get penalized.

 

However, the game is entering a make or break moment by introducing a bunch of so-called beneficial changes and "tweeks". I heard this nonsense from the Age of Conan devs and they really messed up the game. The result was even a solid community could not keep people playing. The community here is not as strong, no offense intended.

 

Listen or don't.

1. If I join an existing game in progress as a solo, I 95/100 will lose. I not only can't make up for the deficit but others will keep dropping as well because the rewards for playing well despite being on the losing side stink. You re-balanced a solo player entering an existing game right out of the game and drop we will and have been all day like never before.

2. If I cue from a group, and we lose, at least I got to play with my friends. Here's the problem. If you don't get much for the effort because you re-balanced the attacks and defenses so that we get burned down in 4 seconds (happenned a lot all day), you really can't encourage your friends to keep trying, and especially with diminished reward returns.

 

Games are not successful because of what the Game Director or his Devs do. They are successful because the community sustains them. Rational people cannot be asked to play and be 4 shotted by some and not rewarded for playing well.

 

I started this game a little under 3 months ago, am 4 pieces shy of a full set of battlle master gear, a war hero rank, and have my share of great victories and serious fun times regardless of victory. I have done most of this as a solo player and really enjoyed the PvP in this game. Many consider me a really good player on my server and many do not want to fight me 1 on 1.

 

Today, I have only won only 1 WZ and acquired a couple hundred tokens. Only 1 win no matter which field or which time today. Today has been perhaps the least enjoyable day in the game. Not because I can't win but because of the combination of what I have discussed above. It is the accumulation of mistakes that makes this part of the 1.2 update fail sauce.

 

Roll back the class changes and rewards and rethink your "Tweeks" please.

[Adzzy]

you're missing the tie breaker shlam, the daily for 3 wins is the equivalent of 4 wins.

 

A lot of people only have/want to spend maybe an hour or two at most, so anything that maximizes win potential regardless of actual commendations will be the preference.

 

It's exactly the same effect that occurred prior to wz completions being part of the ilum daily.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Adzzy

[Shlamorel]

Sorry, not reading the wall of text that pro and con has written to put there agenda forward. I rarely post because this is all the same divide and conquer nonsense and if you maybe kinda sort of offend someone who attacks you then you get penalized.

 

However, the game is entering a make or break moment by introducing a bunch of so-called beneficial changes and "tweeks". I heard this nonsense from the Age of Conan devs and they really messed up the game. The result was even a solid community could not keep people playing. The community here is not as strong, no offense intended.

 

Listen or don't.

1. If I join an existing game in progress as a solo, I 95/100 will lose. I not only can't make up for the deficit but others will keep dropping as well because the rewards for playing well despite being on the losing side stink. You re-balanced a solo player entering an existing game right out of the game and drop we will and have been all day like never before.

2. If I cue from a group, and we lose, at least I got to play with my friends. Here's the problem. If you don't get much for the effort because you re-balanced the attacks and defenses so that we get burned down in 4 seconds (happenned a lot all day), you really can't encourage your friends to keep trying, and especially with diminished reward returns.

 

Games are not successful because of what the Game Director or his Devs do. They are successful because the community sustains them. Rational people cannot be asked to play and be 4 shotted by some and not rewarded for playing well.

 

I started this game a little under 3 months ago, am 4 pieces shy of a full set of battlle master gear, a war hero rank, and have my share of great victories and serious fun times regardless of victory. I have done most of this as a solo player and really enjoyed the PvP in this game. Many consider me a really good player on my server and many do not want to fight me 1 on 1.

 

Today, I have only won only 1 WZ and acquired a couple hundred tokens. Only 1 win no matter which field or which time today. Today has been perhaps the least enjoyable day in the game. Not because I can't win but because of the combination of what I have discussed above. It is the accumulation of mistakes that makes this part of the 1.2 update fail sauce.

 

Roll back the class changes and rewards and rethink your "Tweeks" please.

 

Sorry, not reading the wall of text

 

Hehe, how ironic.