Is Lingering Toxins OP?

[psi_overtake]

Originally, when the ability was announced, I thought "oh yay! A way to help protect us from dispel mechanics. This is great!" This was back when there was a "chance" it would be re-applied if it ends normally, and always be re-applied if it was dispelled.

 

The ability reads 100% chance to re-apply when it ends, which would be in either situation. This does a few things:

 

1. Helps make Cull damage consistent against our DoTs being dispelled.

 

2. Keeps the damage on for 0 energy cost for 9 extra seconds (more uses of Cull, not dipping below 60% for things like OS due to re-application of DoTs, minor damage if you lose LoS on the taget).

 

3. Effectively extends the usefulness of Lethal Purpose by 9 extra seconds for 0 energy.

 

 

The only downsides to keeping these DoTs ticking for 9 seconds are:

 

1. DoT damage lowered by 85%.

 

2. For full Leth, these ticks eat into Weakening Blast procs.

 

3. No extra application of slow from Adhesive Corrosives (speculation).

 

 

So in PvP:

DoT up every unique target you can

Use Adrenaline Probe

Don't worry about energy issues for the next minute

Re-apply DoTs

Reuse Adrenaline Probe

Repeat

 

Unless I missed something?

Edited April 12, 2012 by psi_overtake

[nikthebeast]

So in PvP:

DoT up every unique target you can

Use Adrenaline Probe

Don't worry about energy issues for the next minute

Re-apply DoTs

Reuse Adrenaline Probe

Repeat

 

Meanwhile you're not doing any meaningful damage for the sake of applying dots everywhere(which will eat your energy as well). This isn't OP at all, just pointless damage padding.

[Mythicrose]

Originally, when the ability was announced, I thought "oh yay! A way to help protect us from dispel mechanics. This is great!" This was back when there was a "chance" it would be re-applied if it ends normally, and always be re-applied if it was dispelled.

 

The ability reads 100% chance to re-apply when it ends, which would be in either situation. This does a few things:

 

1. Helps make Cull damage consistent against our DoTs being dispelled.

 

2. Keeps the damage on for 0 energy cost for 9 extra seconds (more uses of Cull, not dipping below 60% for things like OS due to re-application of DoTs, minor damage if you lose LoS on the taget).

 

3. Effectively extends the usefulness of Lethal Purpose by 9 extra seconds for 0 energy.

 

 

The only downsides to keeping these DoTs ticking for 9 seconds are:

 

1. DoT damage lowered by 85%.

 

2. For full Leth, these ticks eat into Weakening Blast procs.

 

3. No extra application of slow from Adhesive Corrosives (speculation).

 

 

So in PvP:

DoT up every unique target you can

Use Adrenaline Probe

Don't worry about energy issues for the next minute

Re-apply DoTs

Reuse Adrenaline Probe

Repeat

 

Unless I missed something?

 

Can you clarify what you're wanting to know? You could've done the exact same thing in PvP prior to 1.2 (DoT everyone up, adrenaline probe, re-DoT). The only difference is that the new talent makes sure at least something exists to protect cull's damage and you'll have a little bit of continued damage from the cleansed DoTs.

[Poe_]

Meanwhile you're not doing any meaningful damage for the sake of applying dots everywhere(which will eat your energy as well). This isn't OP at all, just pointless damage padding.

Yeah I bet 'wtfpwners look at my damage' whores will have many 300-pt objective warzones this way.

 

It does not create an overwhelming situation for healers, and likely, if you're just standing their dotting for too long, someone will see you and jump on your ***, and then you'll have to evade/defend, and the DOTs end. Thinking it through mechanically what you say can happen, but realistically in PvP I doubt it will to much effect.

[psi_overtake]

Meanwhile you're not doing any meaningful damage for the sake of applying dots everywhere(which will eat your energy as well). This isn't OP at all, just pointless damage padding.

You're not doing much of anything meaningful for about 6 seconds at the beginning of a clash. I think it's a valuable investment (in both damage to their whole group and energy return for you). "Damage padding" is only padding if you run into a group that you know you will not take down. Otherwise, damage to multiple targets from DoTs is just as valid as damage to multiple targets from AoEs. Sometimes you want a group to go down fast around the same time, and sometimes you don't have a clear priority target. These are the times it's okay to "pad damage."

 

 

Can you clarify what you're wanting to know? You could've done the exact same thing in PvP prior to 1.2 (DoT everyone up, adrenaline probe, re-DoT). The only difference is that the new talent makes sure at least something exists to protect cull's damage and you'll have a little bit of continued damage from the cleansed DoTs.

 

The new talent gives you more uses of Cull (terms of being able to use it every time it's off CD due to higher energy gains (if you play more conservative)). I'm seeing it this way:

 

1. Get good energy gains from going a hybrid spec, or

2. Get good energy gains from going full Leth, which will allow Weakening Blast to make your Cull damage even higher than it currently is.

 

 

Edit: this is just my knee-jerk reaction. I'm not saying it's OP, I just wanted to see if the community thought it was. It seems so far that it isn't.

Edited April 12, 2012 by psi_overtake

[Mythicrose]

The new talent gives you more uses of Cull (terms of being able to use it every time it's off CD due to higher energy gains (if you play more conservative)). I'm seeing it this way:

 

1. Get good energy gains from going a hybrid spec, or

2. Get good energy gains from going full Leth, which will allow Weakening Blast to make your Cull damage even higher than it currently is.

 

 

Edit: this is just my knee-jerk reaction. I'm not saying it's OP, I just wanted to see if the community thought it was. It seems so far that it isn't.

 

I must've misread the PTR notes on the ability. For whatever reason, I was thinking the weaker DoTs were only applied if Corrosive Grenade and Dart effects were ended prematurely.

 

This would definately be an overall boost to lethality dps coupled with weakening blast costing no energy. This will help lethality in pre-50 pvp and leveling where there's not much crit gear as well.

[psi_overtake]

I know it's silly to quote myself, but:

The new talent gives you more uses of Cull (terms of being able to use it every time it's off CD due to higher energy gains (if you play more conservative)). I'm seeing it this way:

 

1. Get good energy gains from going a hybrid spec, or

2. Get good energy gains from going full Leth, which will allow Weakening Blast to make your Cull damage even higher than it currently is.

 

I guess it'd be better to make a direct comparison between Full Leth and Leth/Engi (since not many use Leth/MM)

 

Full Leth:

• Reduce Escape CD by 30 seconds
  
• Reduce Shield Probe CD by 15 seconds
  
• Reduce Cover Pulse CD by 5 seconds
  
• Increase poison effect damage (includes poison damage bonus from Cull) on targets less than 30% health by 15%
  
• Reduce damage taken from DoTs by 15%
  
• Bonus of having your DoTs continue for 9 extra seconds (see above posts)
  
• Extra damage shot which makes your poison effects (includes poison damage bonus from Cull) hit harder by 30%
  

 

Hybrid Leth/Engi:

• Reduce Flashbang CD by 15 seconds
  
• Reduce Fragmentation Grenade CD by 3 seconds
  
• Increase Explosive Probe damage by 15%
  
• Increase all AoE damages by 15% (only applies to the first tick of Corrosive Grenade, plus all other normal AoEs and all ticks of OS)
  
• Extra DoT that deals energy damage (reduced against armor)
  
• Reduce Explosive Probe's (and IP's) energy cost by 4
  
• Extra damage source when Explosive Probe is used that deals kinetic damage (reduced against armor) (less reliable in PvP)
  
• Extra energy from the extra damage source when properly popped (less reliable in PvP)
  

 

When you put them side-by-side like that, it looks pretty even. Thoughts?

Edited April 12, 2012 by psi_overtake

[Arrys]

Additional downside extended Flash bang break for target.

[Monkeybusiness]

it does, however seems to work with energy recovery talent.

 

Can't say for sure need some one to test this through.

 

I know it's a very meager buff but still.

[Altruismo]

What I do know is I used to run a 0/16/25 build with Imp methodology and Lethal purpose for energy regen and most of the time in PVP I'd be pushing really hard to maintain a decent energy level.

Now I'm running 0/10/31 with Weakening blast basically replacing Int probe for my PVP rotation and I find I just about have to throw a lot more grenades and overload to put a dent in my energy.

I'ts kind of wierd to be dying at 60%+ energy all the time, I've never run dry once.

 

It's nice to have a really good talent, and it's good that it's so deep, it's pretty much a "must have" for Leth builds now.

 

As far as single talents go though, it's 2 points and really deep in a tree that basically needs cleanse protection. In terms of making a tree viable, it's no more OP than Unstoppable for Juggs, which also 2 points but that's only 3rd tier.

 

Time will tell, but I do find it very amusing that I'm seeing WAY more Leth snipers in PVP on my server - I used to be the only one I ever saw Culling

[Monkeybusiness]

What I do know is I used to run a 0/16/25 build with Imp methodology and Lethal purpose for energy regen and most of the time in PVP I'd be pushing really hard to maintain a decent energy level.

Now I'm running 0/10/31 with Weakening blast basically replacing Int probe for my PVP rotation and I find I just about have to throw a lot more grenades and overload to put a dent in my energy.

I'ts kind of wierd to be dying at 60%+ energy all the time, I've never run dry once.

 

It's nice to have a really good talent, and it's good that it's so deep, it's pretty much a "must have" for Leth builds now.

 

As far as single talents go though, it's 2 points and really deep in a tree that basically needs cleanse protection. In terms of making a tree viable, it's no more OP than Unstoppable for Juggs, which also 2 points but that's only 3rd tier.

 

Time will tell, but I do find it very amusing that I'm seeing WAY more Leth snipers in PVP on my server - I used to be the only one I ever saw Culling

 

 

So was i, rarely saw another guy using Cull, hell people called me incompetent for playing Lethality.

[BambulaGTS]

OP? No.

 

Just some hope against operatives.