DF Spec 1.2 (pvp)

[sir_shenanigans]

So I can't play right now because I'm redownloading the client after the fiasco yesterday. Anyways, I'm curious as to what other DFers are taking. right now i'm at 0/8/31 and I don't know where to put the last 2 points. Before the patch I would always take steady shots, but now i have the choice between steady shots, hold your ground, and pandemonium.

 

Pandemonium seems like an interesting choice as it would give me an instant extra 2k to my rotation.

 

I used to always get hold your ground before 1.2 but I have taken Nice Try instead of it. I'm wondering if it's still worth picking up. I mean it got nerfed in that the cooldown reduction on pulse detonator is lower , but it also got buffed because now it reduces the cooldown of escape too.

 

Steady shots still seems pretty good for the extra 6% damage to wounding shots.

 

I guess i will try them all out see what i like. I'd be interested to know if anyone did some number crunching between these 3 talents.

 

Spec so far - http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/gunslinger#0-l2-8idiee7cck

 

Thanks!

Edited April 12, 2012 by sir_shenanigans

[Riiquiem]

DF Spec is still exactly the same like pre 1.2.

All points remain in the same place, even when the description changed.

[viotoa]

Running the same before. I took two points out of nice try and put em in steady shots.

I don't see my dots purged much at all.

 

I've been toying with the idea of getting sharp aim for the additional armor break. Maybe I'll try tomorrow.

[Riiquiem]

This is what you should go for

 

You will need "nice try".. trust me.

 

Take a look here, last post by me.

 

Sharp aim? Dude Oo

Never use charged burst or aimed shot when playing DF!

Edited April 13, 2012 by Riiquiem

[EclatDeGivre]

Maybe I did not understand the skill accurately but to me :

 

Reduces the damage taken by periodic effects by [7.5 / 15]%. In addition, when Vital Shot or Shrap Bomb end, they have a [50 / 100]% chance to be replaced by a weaker version of that same effect that deals 15% of the original effect's damage over 9 seconds.

 

This means that we have :

 

• 15% dmg increase on Shrap Bomb and vital shot supposing that we let the effect end
  
• +9s where our crits will double supposing that we let the effect end
  
• A protection against cleanse (on top of pushing the cleanser to cleanse the weaker version xD)
  
• The possibility to keep a sustained dps in case we miscalculate the duration for wounding shot for instance
  
• -15% on periodic effects which are killers for mobility specs like DF
  

 

It is true that this skill has more impact on pvp than pve (-15% on periodic effects).

However the weaker version is nice in PvE as well as it is still working with Wounding Shot/FIghting spirit and gives us more flexibility in energy management.

 

Imho this skill is not optional for any DF fighter. It's a must have. Especially in PvP.

 

Then maybe for optimized PvE single target dps, it may be droppable. However only theory crafting can tell us that as 9s increase DOT can allow us to use our energy differently as most of the utility of our dots is filled by the weaker version as well.

 

My suggestions : Try to vital shot/ Shrap bomb as many ppl as you can (mobility situations, no focused or critical opponent at range etc). With 9s extended crit possibility, energy management will be much much smoother (and your dps will explode ^^)

 

 

 

I actually put the last 2 points in independant anarchy as sab charge is our best burst, and thermal grenade with 3s CD is a good energy dump and defensive skill for nodes. I'm still wondering about Steady shot... It's theoretically good but :

 

Anybody knows which damages of wounding shot has the +6%?

Are you all sure that it applies on the dots synergy as well?

Edited April 13, 2012 by EclatDeGivre

[Riiquiem]

Are you all sure that it applies on the dots synergy as well?

 

No, not at all. And I assume it does not. Just take a look at your combat logs vs a friend with and without it.

[EclatDeGivre]

If it does not, then 6% on the basic dmg from wounding shot is not that critical for DF. I guess it's a good thing I did not take it. Edited April 13, 2012 by EclatDeGivre

[Riiquiem]

Tested it, still not 100% sure tho but it seems like it does.

[Arehonn]

Just look at the tooltip before and after you respec.

[viotoa]

This is what you should go for

 

You will need "nice try".. trust me.

 

Take a look here, last post by me.

 

Sharp aim? Dude Oo

Never use charged burst or aimed shot when playing DF!

 

Been getting 4.5k and higher aim shots last night w/o adrenals or relics. If its not your play style that's fine. Was just wondering what the added armor bypass would do on top of flourish shot.

[Riiquiem]

Been getting 4.5k and higher aim shots last night w/o adrenals or relics. If its not your play style that's fine. Was just wondering what the added armor bypass would do on top of flourish shot.

 

no.. just no. DF means no charged burst/aimed shot period.

The time/energy you waste by using these keep you away from the real damage DF is capable of...

 

I assure you you'd reach much higher dmg output when you concentrate on the more important skills.

[TheSchwanz]

no.. just no. DF means no charged burst/aimed shot period.

The time/energy you waste by using these keep you away from the real damage DF is capable of...

 

I assure you you'd reach much higher dmg output when you concentrate on the more important skills.

 

exactly this. Aimed shot takes way too long with a DF build. targets can easily leave your line of sight in this amount of time. and in pvp people move everywhere.

[ByeToWoW]

no.. just no. DF means no charged burst/aimed shot period.

The time/energy you waste by using these keep you away from the real damage DF is capable of...

 

I assure you you'd reach much higher dmg output when you concentrate on the more important skills.

 

 

I disagree, to a point.

 

If I am NOT using Aimed Shot, Speed Shot, or Charged Burst as a DF, then I am either (or any combination of):

1) Spamming Vital Shot

2) Spamming Quick Shot

3) Spamming (3-6 sec cd) grenades

4) Spamming Flurry of Bolts

5) Using CC/Utilities

6) Spamming AoE (blocking capping attempts)

7) Repositioning

8) "_____" ability that I have forgotten about and missed to write up

 

Nothing in the above is *wrong*, but that doesn't make it right either.

 

As all things with PvP, the abilities I use, and when I choose to use them, are very situational. However:

 

-IF I am not doing any of the above, THEN I are probably sitting still.

-IF I am sitting still, THEN I should be in cover (unless I are tactically not putting up a glowing marker) to prevent being charged.

-IF I am in cover, THEN I have all of my cover-related abilities at my disposal.

-If I have said abilities, I would be silly to not consider using them.

 

Aimed Shot and Speed Shot are extremely high DPE (damage per energy) abilities. My 30sec cd grenade has a very high DPS (damage per second, aka, burst).

 

Everything said above thus far is also highly dependent on my preferred play style. If I want to be the big-end-of-game-damage-guy in a warzone, then spamming DoTs is the way to go. If I like to focus single target, DF still allows me to do that too... With:

-Aimed Shot

-Speed Shot

-Charged Burst ( this one to a lesser extent)

-Etc...

 

I prefer to DoT a *few* inconsequential and relatively high HP targets with Vital Shot and/or Frag Grenade before I lay into my primary target with the full fury of my toolbox. This *slightly* pads my damage numbers and effectively provides enough energy regeneration for single-target DF DPS utilizing everything I have, including the occasional Charged Burst when all is on cooldown.

 

The way I see it... When my target already has Vital Shot, Frag Grenade, Flourish Shot, Hemo Blast, and my Wounding Shots is on cooldown, what am I going to do with those 6 seconds? If I don't need to do any of the above tasks I mentioned earlier, like AoE'ing a potential cap, I'll be sitting in cover and using my other cast-time or channeled abilities.

 

BTW, not including Wounding Shots, Hemo Blast (cuz it is free), and Flurry of Bolts (cuz it is free), Aimed Shot and Speed Shot have the highest DPE of all of my short-term cooldown abilties. Both even have higher DPS than Charged Burst. Keep in mind my damage numbers are taken from my on-screen tooltips and not including damage modifiers like the target's armor, nor are they taken form any DPS parser.

 

My 2 cents.

 

I really don't think there is a "wrong" way to play a gunslinger as a DF (PvP-speaking). As long as we know how to properly play in our chosen play-style, all is good in the hood!

 

EDIT: Grammar Police hit me hard with the nerf bat

Edited April 14, 2012 by ByeToWoW

[Riiquiem]

... don't know what's wrong with you guys but it's impossible to add aimed shot/charged burst to our rotation "when everything else is on cd".

 

Simply because this never happens. When you are done with your rotation you can start it over again.

 

No room to add anything else.

[ByeToWoW]

Would you be able to take the time to be specific about your rotation? I practice on target dummies, but I use the skills and knowledge from that practice and apply it to PvP.

 

I, like you, simply despise PvE. I'll do encounters once or twice, once everyone knows how to do them, just to see the content, but that's it.

 

When attacking a target dummy, I am finding many times when:

 

1) target has Vital Shot dot

2) target has Frag Grenade dot

3) target has Hemo Blast dot

4) Target has Flourish Shot debuff

5) Wounding Shots has been used and on cooldown

6) I am sitting above (usually well above) 60% energy

 

What do you do in those cases? Casting WS starts the 9 sec cd. ~2.8 sec later, cast is over. There are now roughly 6 seconds before WS is up again. When all else is used and/or impractical due to over-writing buffs/debuffs, I find myself hitting Aimed Shot, Speed Shot, Sabotage Charge, and when ALL else is impractical or unavailable, Charged Burst for my fillers.

 

(Yes, Flurry of Bolts is used when energy is risking 60% or lower)

 

Perhaps my wording earlier made you think I was using these skills as my main damage abilities and throwing in dots and WS when I could because that is not the case.

 

Color me confuzzled.

[Bivaccus]

Would you be able to take the time to be specific about your rotation? I practice on target dummies, but I use the skills and knowledge from that practice and apply it to PvP.

 

I, like you, simply despise PvE. I'll do encounters once or twice, once everyone knows how to do them, just to see the content, but that's it.

 

When attacking a target dummy, I am finding many times when:

 

1) target has Vital Shot dot

2) target has Frag Grenade dot

3) target has Hemo Blast dot

4) Target has Flourish Shot debuff

5) Wounding Shots has been used and on cooldown

6) I am sitting above (usually well above) 60% energy

 

What do you do in those cases? Casting WS starts the 9 sec cd. ~2.8 sec later, cast is over. There are now roughly 6 seconds before WS is up again. When all else is used and/or impractical due to over-writing buffs/debuffs, I find myself hitting Aimed Shot, Speed Shot, Sabotage Charge, and when ALL else is impractical or unavailable, Charged Burst for my fillers.

 

(Yes, Flurry of Bolts is used when energy is risking 60% or lower)

 

Perhaps my wording earlier made you think I was using these skills as my main damage abilities and throwing in dots and WS when I could because that is not the case.

 

Color me confuzzled.

 

Actually, you do make sense, because I experienced the same. What is your critical chance? I think it's better to drop XS in that case though! but it still eats too much enrgy if you ask me. Only use it when coolhead is off CD.

 

oh, pvp thread, ehhm. Well I encountered this in pve mainly, but you might get it in pvp as well.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Bivaccus

[LoganOleary]

Hmm well I played most of the 1st 3 months or so as a Sharpshooter with some Sab thrown in because I enjoyed throwing grenades around. After talking to my Guildleader Danea I switched to Sab/DF build. My WZ dps is up huge margins as are my kill count. I'm no squishier then I was before thou obviously more mobile (even if I forget to MOVE at times) and I still get to toss grenades.

My main issue however is finding a good rotation, I may try the 0/8/31 (I think it was) I saw posted here earlier in the topic. Can anyone tell me their normal rotation and how it works/ I'd appreciate it thanks. Also how are the higher up abilities in DF compared to taking more Sab in the build?

[TheSchwanz]

weakening blast, hemo blast, shrap bomb, and vital shot are the focus of DF. Charged Burst, trickshot, Aimed shot are the focus of SS. speed shot and sab charge fits into both.

[ByeToWoW]

Hmm well I played most of the 1st 3 months or so as a Sharpshooter with some Sab thrown in because I enjoyed throwing grenades around. After talking to my Guildleader Danea I switched to Sab/DF build. My WZ dps is up huge margins as are my kill count. I'm no squishier then I was before thou obviously more mobile (even if I forget to MOVE at times) and I still get to toss grenades.

My main issue however is finding a good rotation, I may try the 0/8/31 (I think it was) I saw posted here earlier in the topic. Can anyone tell me their normal rotation and how it works/ I'd appreciate it thanks. Also how are the higher up abilities in DF compared to taking more Sab in the build?

 

My thoughts on the DF rotation is more of a priority list.

 

Keep up on the target at all times with no particular order:

-Vital shot

-Shrap Bomb

-Flourish Shot

(Keeping the dot son the target is much MUCH easier with the higherup talent "Nice Try")

 

Once that is done priorities change a bit. Keep on COOLDOWN:

-Wounding Shots

-and Hemorrhaging Blast (sort of... see below)

 

These two are equally important. HB is a must to use just before WS. However, due to these two having such different cooldowns, what to do when one comes off and the other is still on?

 

My OPINIONS are: Wait for WS to be ready before casting HB. If HB comes off long before WS, wait a bit and get it to be on the target as close as possible, but still before, WS. Casting this can take the place of a Flurry of Bolts maybe in the "rotation". My reasoning for NOT keeping HB on cooldown 100% of the time is that your dots, especially the ones that are the 85% weaker versions, hit for nothing compared to WS. Use HB to buff WS and make your big hitter hit even harder. Don't waste a 15 sec cd on buffing insignificant (relatively speaking) dots.

 

Next... here is where I am reading different theories. I am pretty sure these are more up to which game you are playing, pve vs pvp, and which type of play style you are pulling off in said game.

 

My preference? When single targeting, I like to use:

 

-Speed Shot and

-Aimed Shot

 

as fillers during down time, energy providing. These are extremely energy efficient compared to everything else in our tool box (not including staples of the DF spec). If those are on cooldown, and I need to shoot something to not waste energy being at 100%, then my next choices are

 

-Quick Draw and

-Sabotage Charge.

 

These are next up for efficiency (DPE), but rival and/or trump the above two in DPS. If burst is my goal and not sustained damage, these two take priority over SS and AS.

 

Flurry of bolts (or maybe a Hemorrhaging Blast, see above) should be used when energy will drop below 60% if I cast anything else.

 

AoE situations?

XS Flyby, Thermal Grenade, Sweeping Gunfire... self explanatory there. (Thermal grenade is only comparable to the sinlge-target energy efficiency of AS or SS if you have at least 3 targets... possibly could suffice with 2 if you have Thermal Grenade buffed via skills, but I doubt it.)

 

What's left?

-Charged Burst

 

Do I use it? Sometimes. It depends on the situation. There have been times while on a practice dummy that literally everything is on CD, I am not in danger of going below 60%, and at least 1.5 seconds remain before something else comes off of cooldown. This is when I use Charged Burst.

 

The above is basically standing still and PvE'ing.

 

PvP'ing? Try and stay mobile. When the opportunity arises to stand and cast (you should be in cover, even for WS, if you are standing still) I find myself remembering what I was doing on the target dummies to make sure my damage stays up there. When on the move, it's all about instants however. That means DoTs, Flourish shot, Flurry of Bolts, Quick Draw, and Quick Shot. Try and stay away form Quick Shot though as Flurry of Bolts is usually better unless you are already at 100%.

 

That's MY personal take on DF. I'd be curious to here other facts/opinions though!

[EclatDeGivre]

Well I had further testing and I must agree with Byetowow.

 

Speed shot at least has such a high dps that it does have its place in your priority list for single target dps. Aimed shot is the same but with Flyby, sab charge and speed shot, I barely had the opportunity to use it in WZ. If you do not use these skills, you'll have too much energy wasted (assuming you have a few vital/shrap running on other targets). And for the record, you do have the time to use these in WZ as bringing down a priority target has it's place. Tried it yesterday, and could cast speed shot at least 5-6 times on civil war. Ppl can argue about sacrificing mobility for dps but sometimes, you have a good spot and there is no need to move again.

 

Sab charge however is more important than speed shot as it's dps is really higher in particular for a 0/8/31.

 

About nice try i confirm that there is no need to renew your DoTs (Vital/Shrap) except for hemo blast. Crit ticks/ Wounding shot is doing the same with the weaker version and speed shot (to talk abt it) has such a high dps that it's much better to use it than to renew the DoTs.

 

 

My summary

 

Always on target :

• Shrap bomb (or weaker version)
  
• Vital shot (or weaker version)
  
• Flourish
  

 

Always on CD :

• Wounding shot (if 2 DoTs, or weaker versions, on target ofc)
  
• Hemo (if strong version on target, if not reapply DoTs first)
  

 

Priority list for fillers single person dps :

• Sab charge
  
• Smuggler's luck + charged burst
  
• Speed shot
  
• Aimed shot
  
• Charged burst (you should rarely/never reach this low in the list)
  

 

Mobility phases :

• Quickdraw
  
• Vital shot
  

 

AoE :

• Flyby
  
• Thermal
  
• Vital (multi target)
  

Edited April 16, 2012 by EclatDeGivre

[Riiquiem]

I do ahve speed shot in my rotation.. sometimes. Tho now I wonder why speed shot isntead of aimed shot... Meh will have to poke a dummy for that.

 

However what you are saying is quite right. But there is one thing you guys aren't aware of.

Hemo blast DOES NOT AFFECT WOUNDING SHOTS. Hm yea just to make that clear.

So because of this you should always keep hemo on cd cause there is no particular time for it.

 

Edit: sooo did some testing with aimed shot and speed shot only for comparison on my ship vs warzone dummy (wheres the difference anyway?). I did not use any skills to lower its resistance/armor or relics, adrenalins, illegal mods. Just to compare its pure dmg.

 

Aimed shot: 2195, 3948, 2442, 4496, 2655, 2386 (miss), 2495, 2694, 2250, 2224, 3942, 2306 (I am SS specced atm so aimed shots ignores 20% armor)

 

Speed shot: 4464, 5648, 4391, 2785, 5093, 4205 (miss), 4373, 3647, 3632, 4410, 3641, 3358

 

So I was recording this with Mox live parser and it seems like speedshot delivers higher dmg per usage.

 

Of course we could take into account activation time, and possible more uses/minute (or something like that), But since we are talking about DF aimed shot does not have 20% armor debuff like in the tests.

Also we aren't spamming those skills like we all already stated, it's only a filler or when high burst is needed.

 

According to those numbers it seems like speedshot is the better skill for us to use?

Please tell me your opinion on that.

 

SWTOR Live dmg parser

 

/off-topic

On last thing, please excuse my harsh behaviour here on the forums, I have quite hard time with university and my job so I'm, pretty stressed out..

Will try not to argue anymore, just solid and useful criticism.. sort like that

Edited April 16, 2012 by Riiquiem

[EclatDeGivre]

Hemo has no synergy with WS indeed. However 30% of the weaker version is bad. That's all. So as WS can be used on CD as far as DoTs are up, Hemo must be careful about strong or weak version.

 

Hemo should be used just before the WS for the only sake of the panic effect. Like "**** why is my life melting all of a sudden?!".

[ByeToWoW]

Hemo not syncing with WS?

 

Confuzzled again.

 

I am not using a parser, so my eyes may be deceiving me, but Hemo is a debuff on the target, yes? As charges are used, the debuff number drops down to 0. If you use WS with Hemo on the target, WS will eat up charges. It'll go from a full 10 to nearly 0 in one WS.

 

Yes, I believe Hemo does not affect WS "weapon damage" hits, but I believe it DOES affect the subsequent bonus damage from having your two dots already on the target. The numbers fly by too fast to see just from target dummy testing so I can't confirm from that route.

 

Aka:

-No Hemo on target? WS bonus damage does X damage per hit.

-Yes, Hemo is on target? WS Bonus damage now does X*1.3 per hit.

 

@Riiquiem:

 

Water under the table. <3

[Riiquiem]

Hemo not syncing with WS?

 

Confuzzled again.

 

I am not using a parser, so my eyes may be deceiving me, but Hemo is a debuff on the target, yes? As charges are used, the debuff number drops down to 0. If you use WS with Hemo on the target, WS will eat up charges. It'll go from a full 10 to nearly 0 in one WS.

 

Yes, I believe Hemo does not affect WS "weapon damage" hits, but I believe it DOES affect the subsequent bonus damage from having your two dots already on the target. The numbers fly by too fast to see just from target dummy testing so I can't confirm from that route.

 

Aka:

-No Hemo on target? WS bonus damage does X damage per hit.

-Yes, Hemo is on target? WS Bonus damage now does X*1.3 per hit.

 

@Riiquiem:

 

Water under the table. <3

 

Please read the sticky. i've been posting quite some nice test results... hemo does not affect WS at all

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=363174&page=2 last post

Edited April 17, 2012 by Riiquiem

[LoganOleary]

Well I respeced today, 0/9/31 and well I am hitting like a truck single target with my DoTs my AoE seems to be lacking...trade off I guess. I was shocked how quickly an opponents health bar drops with Hemo shot+ Vital shot+ Shrap Bomb + Wounding and they drop like a fly, most times. Of course I soon find myself being targeted by the opposite side 2-3 at once. However end of WZ my kill count is respectable thou my dps falls into the middle it seems. It may be that my grenades are further along my hotbar now, not within easy finger reach like b4.

I have to remember my AoEs as I seem focused on single target more now then when I was SS tree. Thanks for the advice all still getting used to DF but enjoying it.