Varus_Praetor Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I've leveled my jugg to 41 as vengeance but started seeing a significant slowdown on Hoth in leveling speed due to survivability. If I ran with any companion other than Quinn I felt like I was made of tissue paper. I rerolled as Immortal (31/2 atm) and WTH!!! Suddenly I'm chain pulling mobs and destroying everything in dps gear (because that's all I had). With Jaesa it doesn't feel like I've even had a noticeable reduction in killing speed. I've got so many tools as Immortal to control mobs and reduce damage, it's amazing. As I said, with my vengeance gear still on I haven't had a very noticeable drop in dps. My question is this....why is Vengeance so lackluster in the 40's? Almost everyone that says Juggs are easy to level is specced Immortal and I now see why. I hope 1.2 brings Vengeance back on par with Immortal, although with as much fun as I'm having, I may not go back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolpaladins Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Vengeance isn't that great 37-42 or so, but it really starts to pick up a HUGE amount of steam after that assuming you're speccing into 14/27/0. Wear defensive gear: defensive mods and shield rating/absorb enhancements (or defense/shield) enhancements . Switch over to Soresu form at level 43 onward instead of shien once you pick up your useful soresu form talents from the immortal tree. You can stay specced into shien form, but only use it if you are killing really really easy stuff. Use both impale improvement talents until you hit level 50 and then you can use huddle instead of savagery. IMO it's the best tank spec. It doesn't have the huge burst aoe of rage spec which helps clear trash packs fast, but it's tough. You'll take even less damage than a full immortal specced tank. Not that it is the end-all/be-all of determining soloing power.... but using 14/27 with the gear recommendation that I gave you, I can solo lord raxxus (heroic 4 lvl 50 daily) And yes, you should be using Quinn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyx Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) I've leveled my jugg to 41 as vengeance but started seeing a significant slowdown on Hoth in leveling speed due to survivability. If I ran with any companion other than Quinn I felt like I was made of tissue paper. I rerolled as Immortal (31/2 atm) and WTH!!! Suddenly I'm chain pulling mobs and destroying everything in dps gear (because that's all I had). With Jaesa it doesn't feel like I've even had a noticeable reduction in killing speed. I've got so many tools as Immortal to control mobs and reduce damage, it's amazing. As I said, with my vengeance gear still on I haven't had a very noticeable drop in dps. My question is this....why is Vengeance so lackluster in the 40's? Almost everyone that says Juggs are easy to level is specced Immortal and I now see why. I hope 1.2 brings Vengeance back on par with Immortal, although with as much fun as I'm having, I may not go back. My first Jugg rolled solely as vengance. My second one is solely immortal. A vengeance build with quinn in tow is faster then Immortal, and past the mid 30's is amazing. The price you pay is being locked into Quinn the D*rk. I don't like it either actually...but well see how 1.2 goes with that amazingly costly damage reduction skill (we get a nice talent in the vengeance tree to boost our DR while it's up). But as it stands right now...Quinn is the easier option. I know peeps that ran vengeance with Vette and jaessa (and a few ran with pierce and liked it), but I didn't like the slowdown. that's my only major gripe atm with vengance. But with quinn it's pretty amazing. i have 3 champions under my belt that were killed at level with quin in tow. the one on Quesh i ended up with 80% health left. My immortal can't do champs without quinn either, so im not missing out on much. But yeah....having to run with quinn is irritating at times. but on her I learned to just tune it out. he's my pocket healer (healing whore...whatever). his job is to keep me alive, not look pretty. the other advantage with quinn is he shares gear with Vette, so if you want to switch the 2 up, its just a few minutes to pass over gear. don't forget to laugh at quinn's undies before you dismiss him! Edit: reading lolpal's advice above, thats good stuff as well. the veng hybrid is a very popular tanking option, and with quinn makes for some amazing solo-ability. the jury's out on which is better (full immortal vs. hybrid), but there are good points on both sides of the argument. What you'll get fro solo work is a tankable spec that does decent damage as well. With a spec like that I'd have no issues running with a dps companion. Edited April 9, 2012 by Elyx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lolpaladins Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Right, the big thing is, Soresu really starts to shine once you have 10 points in the immortal tree. Sure, your damage is probably 20% lower than shien, but you're also only taking 50% as much damage, so it's much much more "efficient" when you're leveling. Only ever ran into 1 situation where I "had" to use shien form, and that was 1 particular quest in Ilum that had 2 very powerful healers that I didn't have the dps to burn down unless I was using shien (with quinn as a healer) although I could have just as easily pulled out jaessa or vette for that one particular pack. And yea, if you just absolutely hate quinn as a character, you're kind of **** out of luck.. if you want to be specced as full dps. Jaessa is getting a 30% armor boost next patch which should help a little bit, or you could also use Pierce, Tank companions with a dps spec is efficient because you can heal him to full in 2 seconds just by unsummoning then resummoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vid-szhite Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 (edited) I've leveled my jugg to 41 as vengeance but started seeing a significant slowdown on Hoth in leveling speed due to survivability. If I ran with any companion other than Quinn I felt like I was made of tissue paper. I rerolled as Immortal (31/2 atm) and WTH!!! Suddenly I'm chain pulling mobs and destroying everything in dps gear (because that's all I had). With Jaesa it doesn't feel like I've even had a noticeable reduction in killing speed. I've got so many tools as Immortal to control mobs and reduce damage, it's amazing. As I said, with my vengeance gear still on I haven't had a very noticeable drop in dps. My question is this....why is Vengeance so lackluster in the 40's? Almost everyone that says Juggs are easy to level is specced Immortal and I now see why. I hope 1.2 brings Vengeance back on par with Immortal, although with as much fun as I'm having, I may not go back. Honestly, Vengeance is very good at what it does, it's just not as good as Immortal for leveling because Immortal makes Soresu form into a beast. Edited April 9, 2012 by Vid-szhite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumoftwosins Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I've been running veng and Jaesa the whole time an I haven't had any problems other than a few close calls. I'm using a good amount of DPS gear though and I'm not taunting unless needed. What I have discovered its a focus fire issue. You DPS comps will just start hitting random trash and you never want to divide your DPS especially in groups of 4 or more. It has also been key to use any abilities I have to interrupt or keep them out of the fight. Intim Roar right off the bat, smash, choke, push... whatever. If you need heals, you're doing something wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracosz Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Leveling as vengeance without battle cry or sundering assault leads to rage sustainment issues, that's your biggest issue as far as I can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marqhill Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Can't say I agree with any of this. I leveled a Guardian to 50 doing a pure tank build with tank gear and it was a little bit of a nightmare looking back on it. I thought MMO's were just supposed to be that hard. I was hitting enemies like I was swinging a wet noodle and not a light saber. I'm now leveling a Juggernaut in Vengeance on a friends server and I'm using all DPS gear and I have noticed no difference in survivability. I take slightly more damage but I deal out so much more damage that I kill mobs incredibly quickly compared to when I was in my defensive spec. I've actually found myself wishing that when I was leveling I had done DPS instead of tank spec. I find it makes leveling a million times easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorizdin Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I leveled in a straight Immortal build and frankly I used whatever gear I could find but mainly tanking stats. Leveling Immortal was a breeze with any of the companions, though Quinn was slower he was better for some of the longer fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elyx Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) Can't say I agree with any of this. I leveled a Guardian to 50 doing a pure tank build with tank gear and it was a little bit of a nightmare looking back on it. I thought MMO's were just supposed to be that hard. I was hitting enemies like I was swinging a wet noodle and not a light saber. I'm now leveling a Juggernaut in Vengeance on a friends server and I'm using all DPS gear and I have noticed no difference in survivability. I take slightly more damage but I deal out so much more damage that I kill mobs incredibly quickly compared to when I was in my defensive spec. I've actually found myself wishing that when I was leveling I had done DPS instead of tank spec. I find it makes leveling a million times easier. Jugg/guard can be tough, especially for your first toon. Don't forget that on this jugg (your second of the class type), you now have close familiarity with your skills, how they work, and the mobs and how battle mechanics function. Your first toon is usually like your first date...fumbling around in the car with the lights out, and you grab the stick shift by accident ^.^ 2nd toons are always easier. But I agree with you, Vengeance puts out allot more dps. My second jugg is leveling immortal with DPS companions only. My first was solely Vengeance all the way. I found that with my vengeance jugg, my gear was top priority, and my companions (mostly quinn), was secondary. with my Immortal jugg/DPS companion, its almost the opposite. My Companion is my DPS, I just keep the mobs attention. so maxing their gear makes a TON of difference. both Vette and Jaesa are killing machines when geared out the teeth. but their gear needs to be first priority on an immortal. Edited April 11, 2012 by Elyx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marqhill Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I've actually been doing my DPS and leveling with my DPS companion (Mostly because I want opportunities to build as much affection with her as I can while leveling.) In any case, I can run through boss fight with her geared just fine. Again, it's just a matter of killng the enemy so fast that healing doesn't really matter. I'm also Biochem so I make my own medpacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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