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Galactic Empire

budziolus

By budziolus
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Datamonger

Datamonger

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Posted (edited)

I like reading through this thread, although I must say my mind gets pulled in one direction when I see joke posts, then it gets severely pulled in the other direction when a joke post gets reprimanded by a serious one.

 

I think the joke posts are pretty obvious. Apparently not everyone sees this.

Edited by Datamonger
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Datamonger

Datamonger

Posted
Posted
And to Sambeta When do we see the Empire execute moisture farmers? In the film the only thing about this is Kenobi saying to Luke that this was Imperial's job - well I wouldn't believe Obi in anything. He only says thing from his point of view. He lied to Luke about his father, he could lie to him about his uncle and aunt (making Luke angry at Stormtroopers helps Kenobi take him on Alderaan to join rebels - before that Luke wants to join Imperial Academy) For me the real version of Owen and Beru death is that in film Troops - link in my first post.

 

...lol

 

Who were the two burning corpses then? Did that master deceiver Obi-Wan murder Owen and Beru and burn everything down? Where does "Troops" fall on the canon scale?

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budziolus

budziolus

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What did you want?

 

They took a plane and brought down the twin towers. And their goal is to take us down, not power. They just wanted to kill us all. And we sent troops there to help the citizens, not to go in a war.

 

When they get serious Nukes(Which is happening in Iran), we will be in a real war. Israel wants to take Iran out now before they get Nuclear power. Obama sent a warning to Iran just a week ago. Iran and North Korea, their building on Nuclear Power.

 

I just hope they calm down... because going to war with Iran will start a chain reaction with China and Russia at their side. And Israel is a major ally for us and allot of European Countries.

 

Its very complicated...

 

I agree with you that they have to be stopped, but I think better solution was to send multiple special forces teams like SEALS to hunt down and kill or bring to justice people like Bin Laden etc. instead of sending there a whole army. Because many soldiers died in that war and the effects aren't that good as they should be. Helping citziens is one thing but many people may now think that armies of US and allies are occupants and may have reason to join terrorists.

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sambeta

sambeta

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Yet again a very odd perception of things. You can't send in special forces into a massive conflict zone like Afgan to solely go on a manhunt. The soliders are there to win hearts and minds and help people. This strategy has been used many times to win the hearts of people instead of just hunting for heads. If you win over the population and give them stability they work out their own problems/hand over the ones that are causing trouble.

 

 

The SAS did this on a smaller scale in many of their jungle engagements, they wno over people to quell trouble, not just man hunt.

 

There are many Afghan nationals that are actually glad to have British and American forces stopping the taliban from terrorising them.

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Maaruin

Maaruin

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About Twi'lek female slave it was a joke. For me Twi'leks were always the most humanoid species and they deserve to be free. Maybe Empire wanted to do such thing but they were too occupied by terrorist attacks to resolve this problem?

 

I'm glad you see it that way. But what makes you think the Empire wanted to change that. As far as I know there is no evidence for this. The empire simply ignored Twi'lek slavery.

So your position is that slavery with non-humanoids is no problem. Would you say it is okay the other way round too? Would you have a problem with Mon Calamari enslaving humans?

 

About Mandela, for me he was a terrorist, I think he shouldn't fight in a way he does. Many countries change their political system from totalitarianism to democracy in more peacefull way. For example Poland in 1989 thanks to the Lech Walesa (he was awarded Nobel Prize in 1983).

 

I understand you argument. So you are saying, every violent attempt to change the existing order is bad/terrorism. If that's your position, it is logical that you call the Rebels terrorists.

 

This would lead to a philosopical discussion if violence against the government can be justified, but since this is a star wars discussion, it doesn't belong here.

 

About nuke Afghanistan - sending there troops was pointless. A lot of good soldiers died and still the mission is not succes, you can't win a war when you don't know who your enemy is (there can be even a child). The only way you can "win" is to completly destroy home of those terrorists and to sacrifice all innocents people living there, but this won't be real victory because you will be more evil than them. So that war shouldn't be started at first place because it was pointless. Empire didn't care if they were the evil ones so they destroyed Alderaan to maintain order in the rest of galaxy - from their point of view it was for greater good.

 

The Empire didn't care if they were evil -> they can do whatever they think is necesarry to maintain order/accomplish their goals

 

A nation/government that doesn't care about evil -> the government can do whatever they think is necessary

 

This is also a position you can take. Like: "Good and evil don't exist for everyone. You state is only bound to the norms it sets for itself."

 

 

If these are your real life opinions, you will clearly support the Empire against the rebels. I understand your reasoning, but I don't agree.

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Remiel

Remiel

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Wow, some people are mentioning real events and non-starwars related stuff (you guys want trouble from the mods?). And then the OP is just making some poor arguments...

 

Word of advice to posters: Stop posting in this thread before things possibly go over the edge, its just not worth it, let OP believe what he wants (if he actually believes it himself).

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undeadsithdread

undeadsithdread

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About Twi'lek female slave it was a joke. For me Twi'leks were always the most humanoid species and they deserve to be free. Maybe Empire wanted to do such thing but they were too occupied by terrorist attacks to resolve this problem?

 

About Mandela, for me he was a terrorist, I think he shouldn't fight in a way he does. Many countries change their political system from totalitarianism to democracy in more peacefull way. For example Poland in 1989 thanks to the Lech Walesa (he was awarded Nobel Prize in 1983).

 

About nuke Afghanistan - sending there troops was pointless. A lot of good soldiers died and still the mission is not succes, you can't win a war when you don't know who your enemy is (there can be even a child). The only way you can "win" is to completly destroy home of those terrorists and to sacrifice all innocents people living there, but this won't be real victory because you will be more evil than them. So that war shouldn't be started at first place because it was pointless. Empire didn't care if they were the evil ones so they destroyed Alderaan to maintain order in the rest of galaxy - from their point of view it was for greater good.

 

the only reason there even terrorests in Afghanistan because americans troops keep murdering families and most so called terrorests are pissed off people who are Relatives to these famlies.

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ACLucius

ACLucius

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Posted
Let's talk about why the Empire was better than the Republic:

Republic:

 

1. All we have in Senate is chaos and corruption, Chancelor is only representant.

 

2. Forbidden slavery still existed for example on Tattoine (Republic lovers will tell that Tatooine wasn't in Republic's jurisdiction)

 

3. In Republic we have Jedi Order - a group of arrogant fighters, which interfere in politics and because of their Force think they were above the Senate and can decided for them (for example decision to kill legally elected and supported by majority of Senate leader for his religion, or to take army created for Republic to attack neutral in that time CIS to rescue few Jedi Knights (they didn't know a senator was there because they ordered Anakin to stay with Padme on Tatooine) - all of Jedi decisions was explained as will of the Force.

 

4. Jedi can steal anything they want - for example Anakin make requisition of speeder on Coruscant.

 

5. Most businesses was run by big corporations like Trade Federation, which have own army, have corrupt senators and do whatever they want (invasion on Naboo)

 

6. Republic senatotr which lost theirs influences in Senate like Organa started a terrorist group of Rebels which killed innocent people - for example workers on Death Star II

 

Empire:

 

1. Order and peace with strong leader.

 

2. Slavery was mainly for lower species which can't speak Basic and at least it was taxed (Also there aren't any planet beyond Empire jurisdiction)

 

3. We have freedom of religion - nobody anymore must believe in Force which controls everything

 

4. Theft are punished - for example Jawas which stole droids.

 

5. Empire make things easier for small business - even smuggler like Lando start to run his own legal business on Bespin and it was still profitable to him.

 

6. I know that many will say now about Alderaan - but it was home of terrorist for 20 years. And about Luke's aunt and uncle it was all just another Kenobi's lie, the truth is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcvFjtbskZk

 

That is much better. Now, this is bound to be troll bait, but I'll bite for the fun of it.

 

Republic

 

1. You ASSUME they are all corrupt. The chancellor manipulated all of the events in order to gain his election.

 

2. Again, it wasn't a Republic planet. Unless they wanted to start a war with the Hutts (which they did not seeing as they didn't even have a proper army), they would not try to enforce their policies on worlds outside of the Republic.

 

3. The Jedi do not think they are above the senate. They only take action to take control of the senate when they realize that a Sith (which, by the way, have never had a true democracy, just empires full of oppression) is controlling the senate and is the leader of the Republic. Even a blind idiot without the force could see what would happen there. As for saving Obi-wan and Anakin, they are Republic citizens, Jedi, and diplomats who were going to be executed. In fact, Obi-wan was attacked first by the CIS droids, imprisoned, and Anakin and Padme were as well after they went to rescue Obi-wan after he was illegally taken prisoner.

 

4. You can do so too in certain circumstances. It is called a crime of necessity. If you steal a car to get away from a tornado, you will be found innocent because of the circumstances of the crime and the fact it was necessary to keep yourself safe. Jedi can't just steal anything, they have to have a purpose for what they do, and I'll be they do. Besides, how do you know that speeder belonged to someone. Maybe it was a public transport? Did you ever see the owner of the speeder? Again, you are making assumptions.

 

5. Alright, the Trade Federation was corrupt. When did they turn corrupt and invade Naboo? I'm pretty sure it was after they allied themselves with a Sith Lord, the same one who you were just trying to defend.

 

6. When faced with an evil, is it not right to fight that evil? The death star was going to be a weapon that would kill billions, if not trillions of people across the galaxy. The workers were helping to build a device that would kill people at a whim, many more innocent people than innocent workers on the second Death Star.

 

Empire

 

1. Order and peace do not imply justice. Did the citizens of the empire have a say? Not after the emperor got control because the senate did what he said until they were dissolved. Order and peace can come hand in hand with oppression.

 

2. You just complained about the Republic allowing slavery on a planet which they had no control over, and now you are going to stand up for the Empire for allowing it because they tax it and only limit it to certain species?

 

3. They had freedom of religion in the Republic as well. No one was forced to believe in anything. Every was able to choose what they believed. However, the force happens to have proof to back up it's existence, so it would be widely recognized.

 

4. So the Republic never punished people for thefts? Please provide proof of someone stealing (without legal justification) and not being punished when found and convicted.

 

5. Unless you got an authentic business history degree from the University of Endor, stop saying things as if they are fact. Again, you ASSUME all of this.

 

6. That is not how it happened. Owen and Beru's roles were switched.

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sambeta

sambeta

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wait you don't know al qaeda was created by cia.

 

They were called freedom fighters at the time and were used to push Russia out of that region of the world because US had an interest in it. Oh how things changed.

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BrandonSM

BrandonSM

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Posted
ever heard war is deception?

 

9/11 was excuse to invade iraq.

 

Wait... is that what you think?

 

Thousands of people die on our soil and you don't think we should go to war? Especially after we knew who it came from..

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