Dungeon Finder Needed Badly

[Psiwuff]

Being able to pop into a Flashpoint from anywhere is going to mean more people playing alts and thus more people going planetside for at least their new alts' class quests. And who knows, now that they're out in the world maybe they'll do some grouping if they feel like it.

 

this.

 

since there currently is no way to LFD except sit on the fleet and do nothing else, besides maybe a little crafting - which can't really be called an "activity" mind you, people who want flashpoints hang out in the fleet. Or usually, don't bother with them in the first place, since no one is around.

[Gucio]

Tbh, as long as you have an active guild, you shouldnt have to waste time on searching for members to do stuff. It may not be for everyone but thats actually one of the best ways to solve the problem in the meantime, guildruns.

 

This game has tons of content that has to be coordinated (hardmodes etc) so without teamspeak or whatever, well i can say i would never pug some of the hardmodes/ops.

 

Its just a guild focused game at the moment, and for me coming from games like wow its kind of nice to do content that at the same time requires you to be a bit social once in a while instead of just going into an instance with a pug barely speaking to eachother just to farm loot.

 

MMOs are supposed to be a social experience as well, there are plenty of good single player games out there for ppl who do not want the social bit.

Having said that, they are working on a lfg tool for heroic missions and FPs so give em time and suggestions to develop it first and take if from there. Since they have their mind set on serverwide only, is there a point at the moment to argue around crosserver queues?

[Appolyonhex]

I for one agree... but be careful with the "instant" gratifying customers. Soon, there will be nothing more to gratify. Concider wow.....

[RachelAnne]

this.

 

since there currently is no way to LFD except sit on the fleet and do nothing else, besides maybe a little crafting - which can't really be called an "activity" mind you, people who want flashpoints hang out in the fleet. Or usually, don't bother with them in the first place, since no one is around.

 

Wow is currently done by sitting at SW all day, and it has a LFG As you see your argument is not valid. To run 1 dungeon after the other is what many people do there, most of them dont even know where the dungeon entrance is - if its at eastern kingdom or kalimdor.

 

And I am unsure how often I wrote this here, nobody has to sit at the fleet. You can use the LFG tool from every spot and also the global LFG channel.

[zuile]

Xserver dungeon finder please, waiting is bad so I want the most minimum wait time possible, I've also barely ever friended anyone from a dungeon run so I couldn't care less about so called "community" and single server won't help people levelling up much to find dungeons.

[chaosdefined]

Wow is currently done by sitting at SW all day, and it has a LFG As you see your argument is not valid. To run 1 dungeon after the other is what many people do there, most of them dont even know where the dungeon entrance is - if its at eastern kingdom or kalimdor.

 

And I am unsure how often I wrote this here, nobody has to sit at the fleet. You can use the LFG tool from every spot and also the global LFG channel.

 

You have yet to provide an actual argument.

 

Also this global LFG channel you speak of, is user created and must be joined everytime and everyone has to know the name of it, which requires spamming General every day about it. Plus the current LFG tool is flawed and quite frankly rubbish.

 

Fact of the matter is, Bioware is putting in a Group Finder. You can either use it, whilst out in the universe, or sit in the fleet spamming general chat. Your choice.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Parali
rude, already warned

[BucMan]

You have yet to provide an actual argument. What's even funnier is your argument against is the same argument for. You make very little sense far too often.

 

Also this global LFG channel you speak of, is user created and must be joined everytime and everyone has to know the name of it, which requires spamming General every day about it. Plus the current LFG tool is flawed and quite frankly rubbish.

 

Fact of the matter is, Bioware is putting in a Group Finder. You can either use it, whilst out in the universe, or sit in the fleet spamming general chat. Your choice.

 

Yes they are. But for now, it will be single server. I am HOPING that this sheds light on the fact that some of the servers need to be merged should the low pop servers still have an inability to get into a dungeon. I hope they look to that first rather than ASSUME the single server system fails when it's really the low pop server.

 

One of the options from the poll they had was Heroic quests. I believe this was second only to flashpoints(overwhelming majority). Cross server will do NOTHING for this. But HOPEFULLY, they realize merging a few low pop servers together will be healthy for the overall game. This enables not only more folks for the flashpoint runners, but helps heroic quests as well.

 

I am on the Begeren Colony server, which I have never seen at higher than Standard in the last month or two, but we have enough of a pop to enable dungeon runs on both sides should we get a LFD utility. It's not THAT tough right now.

[Skidrowbro]

The LFD tool is mainly wanted by those who play console games. All they know how is to log in and click a button. Those are also the same players who will be crying for nerfs because of all the crap groups they will get and the real population will suffer by getting nerfed FP's.

[discosoc]

The LFD tool is mainly wanted by those who play console games. All they know how is to log in and click a button. Those are also the same players who will be crying for nerfs because of all the crap groups they will get and the real population will suffer by getting nerfed FP's.

 

Actually, the LFG tool seems to be wanted by people who think it's more fun to actually play the game than it is to do laps in fleet station hoping to get a group together.

 

As for "crap groups", I have the same opinion as I did/do for WoW: I'd rather have the ability to get quickly get a group, which may turn out to be crap, than to have to spend 45 minutes hoping to get a group, which may also turn out to be crap.

[thominoh]

Being able to pop into a Flashpoint from anywhere is going to mean more people playing alts and thus more people going planetside for at least their new alts' class quests. And who knows, now that they're out in the world maybe they'll do some grouping if they feel like it.

 

Kind of defeats the purpose of playing a true RPG game.. Think about it.. You're on Tatoonine and in 2 seconds you're in some strange new world doing a flashpoint, then instant teleport back to where you used to be after you're done.. I really fail to see the RPG immersion factor in that set up.. Sorry.. As I said, this is like a FPS lobby game you play on Xbox.. Next thing players will demand is instant travel to ANY location.. Players can't be bothered to rpg or travel anymore.. We need instant gratification nowadays.. lol

[tkinnunzero]

Kind of defeats the purpose of playing a true RPG game.. Think about it.. You're on Tatoonine and in 2 seconds you're in some strange new world doing a flashpoint, then instant teleport back to where you used to be after you're done.. I really fail to see the RPG immersion factor in that set up.. Sorry..

 

Are you kidding?!

 

I'm on Tatooine trying to figure out the ancient mysteries of the Force, when suddenly I get a Holo-Alert that those Clan Varad thugs are up to no good again, so I have my own starship swoop in to pick me up, fly me to the other side of the galaxy and drop me off to teach those Mandalorians another lesson. Then once the Mandalorians are well and truly schooled my own starship swoops in again, picks me up and flies me back to Tatooine.

 

That's absolutely ****** and exactly how it should be in the Star Wars universe.

[chaosdefined]

Breaks the immersion. Ha! Sorry that's just silly.

 

Not having Permanent Death breaks the immersion factor.

[tkinnunzero]

The guild summit is ancient history at this point. I wouldn't read much into it anymore.

 

Are you referring to this:

 

"When the mod tells you so much information about the fight that you don’t even really need to pay attention to what is happening in the world at all, then we feel that crosses the line. I don’t know that we could put the djinn back in the bottle at this point though. It would feel really harsh to prevent addons from tracking some of that information, and in some cases we’re not even sure how we would prevent it."

 

That's talking about addons that tell you what to do during boss fights, it has nothing to do with Cross-Server Dungeon Finder.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Parali
bad quote

[chaosdefined]

The guild summit is ancient history at this point. I wouldn't read much into it anymore.

 

Are you referring to this:

 

"When the mod tells you so much information about the fight that you don’t even really need to pay attention to what is happening in the world at all, then we feel that crosses the line. I don’t know that we could put the djinn back in the bottle at this point though. It would feel really harsh to prevent addons from tracking some of that information, and in some cases we’re not even sure how we would prevent it."

 

That's talking about addons that tell you what to do during boss fights, it has nothing to do with Cross-Server Dungeon Finder.

 

 

Thank you for finally finding that.

 

I will admit the dungeon finder in WoW was flawed to begin with, however they have been improving it over time and as many people have put forward some great ideas, SWTOR could impliment a far better version of it themselves.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Parali
bad quote, more rude but already warned

[llesna]

We definitely do need this and hopefully it will be implemented in the next major patch for all FPs and Heroics, as well as any activity for which you need a group. Edited May 3, 2012 by llesna

[MajikMyst]

I don't think we need a cross server LFG, but I am open to listen to alternatives.. As long as it is considered the impacts it might have on guilds or the gaming community in general..

 

WOW even nerfed raid bosses for people that used the LFG, further making guilds useless as it was actually easier to clear a raid in a pug group than it was in a guild raid group..

 

Like I said, I am open to alternatives.. But this game does NOT need a cross server LFG system..

Edited April 25, 2012 by Parali
reply to bad quote

[chaosdefined]

 

I don't think we need a cross server LFG, but I am open to listen to alternatives.. As long as it is considered the impacts it might have on guilds or the gaming community in general..

 

WOW even nerfed raid bosses for people that used the LFG, further making guilds useless as it was actually easier to clear a raid in a pug group than it was in a guild raid group..

 

Like I said, I am open to alternatives.. But this game does NOT need a cross server LFG system..

 

You keep talking about community, but many of us are yet to see evidence of it in this game. You state it had a negative impact yet provide nothing but 'your word' for it. We have shown you factual evidence that the playerbase grew for a solid year after Cross Server LFD, which is more evidence to a positive result than to a negative result.

 

As I have stated many times, a Group Finder with the option to queue either Single Server or Cross Server. Your only reasons against Cross Server seem to be that evil magic makes people stop talking on their servers, and that nasty trolls steal your precious loot. You then started making up facts about how the Group Finder removed the need for Guilds, despite there still being a heavy amount of Guilds within the game.

 

As I said, no valid reason has been given against it.

 

The simple fact you are declaring that the game does not need one, proves you are not in a position to comment on it. You do not need it, but others do. You are not the entire playerbase.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Parali
replies

[Katahn]

this.

 

since there currently is no way to LFD except sit on the fleet and do nothing else, besides maybe a little crafting - which can't really be called an "activity" mind you, people who want flashpoints hang out in the fleet. Or usually, don't bother with them in the first place, since no one is around.

 

Not true, you are able to LFG in places other than the Fleet. I've found Flashpoint groups using a player-made LFG channel (/cjoin LFG), from people advertising in /general on various worlds appropriate for the level range, and from good Heroic groups that decided to keep the action going with a few good Flashpoint runs.

[RachelAnne]

You keep talking about community, but many of us are yet to see evidence of it in this game. You state it had a negative impact yet provide nothing but 'your word' for it. We have shown you factual evidence that the playerbase grew for a solid year after Cross Server LFD, which is more evidence to a positive result than to a negative result.

 

As I have stated many times, a Group Finder with the option to queue either Single Server or Cross Server. Your only reasons against Cross Server seem to be that evil magic makes people stop talking on their servers, and that nasty trolls steal your precious loot. You then started making up facts about how the Group Finder removed the need for Guilds, despite there still being a heavy amount of Guilds within the game.

 

As I said, no valid reason has been given against it.

 

The simple fact you are declaring that the game does not need one, proves you are not in a position to comment on it. You do not need it, but others do. You are not the entire playerbase.

 

The evidence is there, you know very well that we are not allowed to post links to the wow forum where people express their "anger" regarding the LFG tool. So if you want to see it, you should go there.

 

We also have not yet seen any compromise of you, all you keep saying is "dont use it" which is not a compromise at all.

A Compromise would be to leave out RP servers from automated tools, to tweak the LFG of wow to a manual tool which gives the power to those that group and not a random roll. Another would be to have somekind of tribunal like LOL has, so that bad behaivour can be punished and last but not least a filter system that allows players to select a specific "playstyle" when they queue up so that elitist´s can play with their own, just like casuals or people with a family could etc.

You need to understand that your "professionell way" of playing this game is just 1 possible way. There are people that dont want to rush, that dont want to skip, that dont want you to roll for everything, that might need to go afk for a min ... if they end up in a group with your kind, they cant enjoy the run and you cant either as you demand things they cant deliver and rage.

Those people need to be protected and thats why a tool like at wow is bad in design, as there they get actually punished and the elitist have advantages.

This is a compromise, to say "dont use" is not.

 

The thing you still did not understand is also the issue of xlfg or lfg. It does not matter if its xlfg or lfg - what matters is that you have no influence on the group that you get if its like at wow.

The only difference of xlfg and lfg is, that at a server only tool you usually have a community that you know. I like to explain this by the marking issues I always had at wow.

 

On my server we used skull for the first kill, moon for sheep, triangle for sleep or root etc. Playing at the LFG with people from other servers was hard - as a tank I always marked stuff and they didnt understand it. I saw skull sheeped, moon feared and all this.... but also the looting was totally different to my server and people especially on 3 others servers were very hardcore and rude, something my server was not and I was tired of permanently "gogogogog" commands.

Nevertheless is the biggest problem the automated selection, every server has a few rude people - some servers have more and some less. By having a manual selection you can skip those and because of this such a "feature" is mandatory in every LFG.

 

If the mistakes of wow´s tool are fixed, I would love to see a tool for raids, wz´s and dungeons - but if the mistakes are copied over, then I rather quit than playing further.

 

Edit:

 

As a sidenote, the wow tool has so many "carrots on a stick" that force you to use their tool - that it is pretty obvious that they do know the tool is not working that good. Why else punish people with 30 mins deserter if they leave, this could only be because many people didnt like the groups they got in

Edited April 25, 2012 by Parali
bad quote

[Katahn]

Just to add on to my prior post.

 

/cjoin LFG

 

Yes not everyone auto-joins it, but with advertising that includes asking others to spread the word it has on my server become exceptionally well used. I have been doing dailies on Ilum or Corellia with my main and seen a group LF1M Tank for Hammer Station and promptly whispered them and logged over to my mid-teens (at the time) Powertech Tank. We cleared Hammer Station repeatedly (it was a good group and had lots of fun) - I added them to my friends list and when they came back on a couple days later I was able to whisper them and we proceeded to roll Athiss repeaatedly.

 

A XLFG tool would have to include cross-server friends, would have to allow me to list alts I am not currently playing, and would have to allow me to form groups outside of the tool with people on other servers to duplicate this functionality. The cross-server friends would have to be limited to friending a specific cross-server character... not the account in general as people like me would find the idea of sharing all our characters on the "first group" a bit disconcerting.

 

"LFG in the Worlds not the Fleet"

 

For servers that have a healthy population I cannot stress enough my bafflement that people won't try to build flashpoint groups anywhere but on the Fleet. If the problem is that there aren't enough people on the Fleet and you can't find a group without spending an excessive amount of time, why not try the worlds where people of the right level range are doing missions? Looking for a group for BT Regular and not having any luck? Try Dromund Kaas. Looking for a group for a hard mode? Try Ilum, Belsavis, or Corellia where 50s will be doing their dailies.

 

Of course for low-pop servers this isn't going to work - but low population is its own problem. It can be fixed if Bioware merges servers or offers free transfers to achieve that effect. It can also be rectified by rerolling on a higher population server. I went from Shien to Lord Adraas, leaving behind my (at the time) highest level character (middle 30s) to do that. Previously I had left a queue-riddled server to go to Shien doing much the same thing. In both cases I decided it was better to take immediate action to hopefully improve my gaming experience than to be frustrated by a poor experience and wait for BW to wave some kind of magic wand to fix it.

[Parali]

Hi there!

 

We recently had to remove some posts in this thread. We wanted to take a moment and remind everyone of the Forum Rules and Guidelines.

 

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Thanks for your understanding, and please continue the Dungeon Finder Tool discussion!

 

[chaosdefined]

The evidence is there, you know very well that we are not allowed to post links to the wow forum where people express their "anger" regarding the LFG tool. So if you want to see it, you should go there.

That is not evidence, that is still anecdotal and would never pass in court. All you're doing there is linking to more whiners and complainers. Hardly proof.

 

 

We also have not yet seen any compromise of you, all you keep saying is "dont use it" which is not a compromise at all.

 

So the whole part where I kept saying add in as many options as possible for players to customise how they use the tool went totally past you? Or was your only compromise for us to not have the tool at all?

A Compromise would be to leave out RP servers from automated tools, to tweak the LFG of wow to a manual tool which gives the power to those that group and not a random roll. Another would be to have somekind of tribunal like LOL has, so that bad behaivour can be punished and last but not least a filter system that allows players to select a specific "playstyle" when they queue up so that elitist´s can play with their own, just like casuals or people with a family could etc.

Your solution is to further segregate the community and servers by splitting people up and building walls around them. And yet again it's coming back to a control issue. You hate not being in control of everything. I find it strange that you keep referring to elitists as other people, yet are the one complaining about how everyone else is a theif and an idiot.

 

You need to understand that your "professionell way" of playing this game is just 1 possible way. There are people that dont want to rush, that dont want to skip, that dont want you to roll for everything, that might need to go afk for a min ... if they end up in a group with your kind, they cant enjoy the run and you cant either as you demand things they cant deliver and rage.

Those people need to be protected and thats why a tool like at wow is bad in design, as there they get actually punished and the elitist have advantages.

This is a compromise, to say "dont use" is not.

Once again, you're jumping to assumptions and accusing others of things without knowing anything about them. You say "Your kind" and then claim you're not an elitist. We have also stated numerous times it does not have to be identical to the WoW model, a lot can be changed about it. You seem to keep ignoring us on this.

 

 

The thing you still did not understand is also the issue of xlfg or lfg. It does not matter if its xlfg or lfg - what matters is that you have no influence on the group that you get if its like at wow.

The only difference of xlfg and lfg is, that at a server only tool you usually have a community that you know. I like to explain this by the marking issues I always had at wow.

Yet again your complaint is down to an issue of control. You hate the idea that you're not in charge. You want to pick the group yourself and therefore a Group Finder is unacceptable to you, and nobody should be allowed to use it. Yet you say we are not willing to compromise.

 

 

On my server we used skull for the first kill, moon for sheep, triangle for sleep or root etc. Playing at the LFG with people from other servers was hard - as a tank I always marked stuff and they didnt understand it. I saw skull sheeped, moon feared and all this.... but also the looting was totally different to my server and people especially on 3 others servers were very hardcore and rude, something my server was not and I was tired of permanently "gogogogog" commands.

Nevertheless is the biggest problem the automated selection, every server has a few rude people - some servers have more and some less. By having a manual selection you can skip those and because of this such a "feature" is mandatory in every LFG.

Repeating yourself quite a lot. Once again, branding others without knowing them, having an issue about not being in charge and more anecdotal evidence that you had a bad time once.

 

 

If the mistakes of wow´s tool are fixed, I would love to see a tool for raids, wz´s and dungeons - but if the mistakes are copied over, then I rather quit than playing further.

 

Edit:

 

As a sidenote, the wow tool has so many "carrots on a stick" that force you to use their tool - that it is pretty obvious that they do know the tool is not working that good. Why else punish people with 30 mins deserter if they leave, this could only be because many people didnt like the groups they got in

 

Your argument is contrived, vain, misinformed and completely judgemental. You accuse us of your own crimes, say we will not compromise yet it is you who outright refuses the idea of any Group Finder to be created. You have problems with not hand picking your own group to be in charge of and then accuse us of being elitist.

 

But as I have said, Group Finder IS coming into the game with Patch 1.3 so really, your argument is in vain. You can learn to play with others or you can ask Bioware to make a special Hermit Server for those who do not play well with others.

[Katahn]

Your solution is to further segregate the community and servers by splitting people up and building walls around them. And yet again it's coming back to a control issue. You hate not being in control of everything. I find it strange that you keep referring to elitists as other people, yet are the one complaining about how everyone else is a theif and an idiot.

 

I don't think asking for the ability to "pre-screen" the pool of players to either exclude ones we know we won't have fun with or to limit it to those who share our gaming habits is fairly characterized the way you do in the quote above.

 

The entire reason servers are defined broadly by types such as RP-PVE, RP-PVP, PVE, and PVP is to cater to different players preferred playstyles. Otherwise why bother having these different server types? It seems perfectly reasonable to me ask to group only with people who share a very basic level of similar interests.

 

Of course we all know that different people even on the same server will have different motivations for doing groups and flashpoints. Some are interested in experiencing the story and watching all of the dialogue scenes while others want to spacebar through everything. Sometimes I want to enjoy the story, sometimes I just want to get it done. Neither approach is inherently better than the other, so what is wrong with a "quality of life" feature that prevents the "story" people from being put with the "spacebar" people?

[chaosdefined]

I don't think asking for the ability to "pre-screen" the pool of players to either exclude ones we know we won't have fun with or to limit it to those who share our gaming habits is fairly characterized the way you do in the quote above.

 

Which the /ignore function and added options into the tool would be beneficial.

 

The entire reason servers are defined broadly by types such as RP-PVE, RP-PVP, PVE, and PVP is to cater to different players preferred playstyles. Otherwise why bother having these different server types? It seems perfectly reasonable to me ask to group only with people who share a very basic level of similar interests.

 

Of course we all know that different people even on the same server will have different motivations for doing groups and flashpoints. Some are interested in experiencing the story and watching all of the dialogue scenes while others want to spacebar through everything. Sometimes I want to enjoy the story, sometimes I just want to get it done. Neither approach is inherently better than the other, so what is wrong with a "quality of life" feature that prevents the "story" people from being put with the "spacebar" people?

 

Again added options into the tool, tick boxes if you want to queue up for a Story Run, with people from your own server or cross etc. More options to how you group the better.

 

However what she wants is specific servers for those who don't want to use a group finder at all, but instead hand pick their own groups with who they think is good enough and be in charge of the loot to give it to who deserves it most.

And then accused others of being elitist?!

[Katahn]

Again added options into the tool, tick boxes if you want to queue up for a Story Run, with people from your own server or cross etc. More options to how you group the better.

 

However what she wants is specific servers for those who don't want to use a group finder at all, but instead hand pick their own groups with who they think is good enough and be in charge of the loot to give it to who deserves it most.

And then accused others of being elitist?!

 

That isn't how I read what she wrote at all, could you be mistaken? There's a real danger of reading too much of the wrong thing into what people "say" in forums - after all we're missing 90% of the communication that is non-verbal among our species.

 

I can say to those points that I did observe that in WoW there were servers that quickly developed a reputation for producing some of the worst behavior in x-server PUGs. If I had an option to entirely exclude those servers from the pool of people I could pick from I would have. One in particular was Mal'Ganis (a pvp server, not that it being pvp mattered per se) that I and others dubbed "Fail'Ganis".

 

Now were the people of that server just really bad or was it just that their playstyle and my playstyle (and those of my friends) were just that far apart from each other? Probably the latter but that's beside the point - shouldn't a good tool give us the option to avoid an entire sever community if we want to for whatever reason we might desire? I'm fairly certain those folks on that server had equally colorful names for us "role-playing carebears" and might have been happier not having to deal with us either.

 

I of course come down heavily on the idea that "if it is a good idea to have servers segregated by playstyle then it follows that it would be good to preserve that segregation in all areas of gameplay - including cross-server play". If there isn't an option then I would hope cross-server tools (if implemented) would be restricted to like-type servers all being in the same pool and if it is an option that the default would be "same server types only", This would require the cross-server impementation to cooperate across servers that might be in different timezones (for more niche types of play such as rp-pvp).

 

So to recap...

 

1. Cross-server friends that are tied only to that specific character and not to accounts or "realid" systems. This would have to mimic all existing same-server friendslist functionality.

2. Cross-server communication and group formation.

3. Limited number of free server transfers per account per month, quarter, or year to facilitate joining a guild on another server after making friends with people in a xserver pug.

4. Ability to select only specific servers or server-types to group with and that by default such options would be to only pull from the pool of same-type servers (PvE, RP-PvE, PvP, RP-PvP).

5. An unlimited ignore list that prevents undesirables from being grouped with me again.

6. An unlimited guild-ignore list and server-ignore list should I determine that there is a particular guild or server I never want to group with again.

7. Playstyle selections: story-mode (spacebar disabled for speeding through conversations), fast-mode (all story-scenes auto-spacebarred), normal (spacebar functionality not affected), nbg loot enforced, open loot, etc.