Dungeon Finder Needed Badly

[BucMan]

And again as we keep stating, from a business perspective Bioware will not merge servers for months yet. They will not want to go down as the MMO to have done the quickest server merge since Launch.

 

Not saying you are wrong. But you are the only one I've seen spouting this. And I would think saving face or risk losing 300-500K subs would have me going after the subs, from a business perspective. If it was 5,000 subs, I'd not risk it. But that's enough to fund an entire AAA MMO 6 months after launch.

 

 

Edit: It appears Rift merged servers 9-10 months after launch. I don't think 7-8 months after launch will make much difference.

Edited April 26, 2012 by BucMan

[chaosdefined]

In an interview with PC Gamer yesterday, Lead Designer Daniel Erickson said this on the subject of server merges:

 

“Nothing is off the table when it comes to making sure our communities are strong and active on each server. That includes server merges, but that is certainly not the first thing on the list."

Edited April 26, 2012 by chaosdefined

[BucMan]

In an interview with PC Gamer yesterday, Lead Designer Daniel Erickson said this on the subject of server merges:

 

“Nothing is off the table when it comes to making sure our communities are strong and active on each server.”

 

That includes server merges, but that is certainly not the first thing on the list."

 

Which tells me they want to open up transfers first(why would anyone move to a light server is beyond me, unless entire guilds move for an easier time to getting server firsts). But Mergers are not top priority. Once they get the transfer system up and running it will make merging a lot easier.

[chaosdefined]

Which tells me they want to open up transfers first(why would anyone move to a light server is beyond me, unless entire guilds move for an easier time to getting server firsts). But Mergers are not top priority. Once they get the transfer system up and running it will make merging a lot easier.

 

Which is true, however there is still no word on how soon we can expect transfers, and the longer they take the more I worry for the health of the game.

Even if they just said "We hope to have transfers going within the next few months." that would go a long way to pleasing a lot of people, even if 'a few months' is more like 6 or 7.

[BucMan]

Which is true, however there is still no word on how soon we can expect transfers, and the longer they take the more I worry for the health of the game.

Even if they just said "We hope to have transfers going within the next few months." that would go a long way to pleasing a lot of people, even if 'a few months' is more like 6 or 7.

 

 

Well, the Asia/Pacific Theater is already getting that going, so I would actually be surprised if NA and Europe doesn't have it up and running before the summer is over. Besides, if you don't have a working transfer system, you can't tell people to move to another server because there will be consolidation.....heh

[Katahn]

Let's be honest, cross-server is a workaround or a bandaid to cover over the real problem: low server populations mean a single-server group finder won't benefit people on those servers. So I completely understand the fervent desire to get a cross-server LFG tool because circumstances outside of their control bar them from fully participating in all of the game's features.

 

Unfortunately, it is a very bad fix. It doesn't address finding groups for anything that isn't 100% instanced and won't work for operations beyond "Story Mode". Even assuming all of the additional features and safeguards it would need to be comparable to a single-server tool on a well-populated server, and that isn't an insignificant set of technical hurdles, it still won't fix all of the problems.

 

The fix for low server populations is server transfers and merges. Its as simple as that. All you have to do is offer free transfers from severs that are overpopulated (faction dependent) to those that are lightly populated. That isn't a merge and once the APAC transfer issues are worked out I would expect this to happen pretty shortly thereafter. If it happens that even after this that there are still too many low-pop servers then you start working out the details of server merges in a slow and controlled fashion. Make a change, let the player populations adjust and then see what has to happen next.

[chaosdefined]

Let's be honest, cross-server is a workaround or a bandaid to cover over the real problem: low server populations mean a single-server group finder won't benefit people on those servers. So I completely understand the fervent desire to get a cross-server LFG tool because circumstances outside of their control bar them from fully participating in all of the game's features.

 

Unfortunately, it is a very bad fix. It doesn't address finding groups for anything that isn't 100% instanced and won't work for operations beyond "Story Mode". Even assuming all of the additional features and safeguards it would need to be comparable to a single-server tool on a well-populated server, and that isn't an insignificant set of technical hurdles, it still won't fix all of the problems.

 

The fix for low server populations is server transfers and merges. Its as simple as that. All you have to do is offer free transfers from severs that are overpopulated (faction dependent) to those that are lightly populated. That isn't a merge and once the APAC transfer issues are worked out I would expect this to happen pretty shortly thereafter. If it happens that even after this that there are still too many low-pop servers then you start working out the details of server merges in a slow and controlled fashion. Make a change, let the player populations adjust and then see what has to happen next.

 

Did you get bored and decide to restart the argument from the beginning? I thought we'd done all this

[Furrios]

As I posted in the other thread a Looking For Group queue system (LFG) is needed in The Old Republic because it's really hard to find group for flashpoints and in some cases heroic missions. The LFG system would make more people do flashpoints all over the game also instead of just The Esseles or The Black Talon. There will also be done more heroics missions because some people doesn't do them because of the fact that they need to spam the general chat and wait until someone is on the same mission. Also I would like to propose that all heroics without much story into it should be share-able if the players are over a certain level. This will make more people play together at the same time in a group. This is an MMORPG after all, not an RPG (singleplayer).

[Skidrowbro]

LFG Tool

 

Pros: Find groups faster

 

Cons: Content nerfs

Ninja looter (yes they happen on occasion without LFD but the community of the server can enforce that)

Under geared players

Players who have no concept of group play (healer playing dps, players attacking everything in sight, dps thinking they can tank)

Players who think they are uber and insult new players.

 

 

Hmmm, list seems a bit longer in the cons then pros department. And for those who argue "if you don't like it, don't use it". People, no matter how much they say they won't use it, will take the path of least resistance.

 

The funny part is the people crying for x-server LFG because of being on a dead server will still be, on a dead server also the LFG system already in place works. It's just players are too stupid or used to being coddled and hand held to use it. Learn to RPG. This is not a PS3 or 360 game.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Skidrowbro

[overunitee]

Today , 04:14 AM | #1

EDIT REPORT POST QUOTE

I would absolutely love that the levelling process for each class involve the whole game such as during your class story you were send on progressively difficult space missions ,you were asked to craft certain items to help fight the enemy and you were actually sent into player versus player to actually confront the opposite faction with a event or object ives needed to be accomplish that fed into your story .

Having a meeting with your growing family of companions at the holo terminal and having to complete specific flashpoints using your companions with all this feeding into the legacy and story.

This could be used to train players in all the aspects of the game and provide a challenge that you need to overcome as you level ,adding a feeling of accomplishment to the levelling process.

 

I don't want to have to get to endgame to feel like I'am playing a challenging and fun game ,i want to experience these feeling whenever I log in ,and I feel the above points could help in that respect .

 

Also to address the lack of flashpoint groups I feel that a comprehensive lfg tool linked to the specific mission be implemented with a timer you can activate were say after 2 minutes one of your companions can be used ,4 minutes 2 companions until such time that even if you can't get real players to group with then the level difficulty of the flashpoint be tuned to the amount of companions you need to use .

Or your companions are boosted based on how many you have to use through lack of real players wanted to complete the said mission during your window of playtime.

 

Getting groups for level 1-49 content will always be difficult unless there can be a pvp type queueing system or something like the above implemented . Even relax the reliance on tank healer dps composition for the 1-49 pve content.

the flashpoints themselves can then be used to enhance and add to the story ,since there will be a way for every single player to complete them .

 

Queue for a group mission or flashpoint knowing that once the timer is up you will actually be able to complete the challenge even if it ends up just you and your companions ,at least you can experience all the content that has had so much work put in to create .

There is currently a large chunk of this effort from the developers going to waste ,I hope my ideas help .

I would love to see these creative people rewarded by knowing all their hard work is being experienced by as many players as possible ,these type of creative people thrive on players enjoyment of the content they put their soul into .

http://olderrepublic.enjin.com/

[Vrylokai]

LFG Tool

 

Pros: Find groups faster

 

Cons: Content nerfs

Ninja looter (yes they happen on occasion without LFD but the community of the server can enforce that)

Under geared players

Players who have no concept of group play (healer playing dps, players attacking everything in sight, dps thinking they can tank)

Players who think they are uber and insult new players.

 

"Cons" are in the eye of the beholder. The only con I see in your list is Ninja looting for me. The others are Pro's, as you can possibly do the good community member thing and help the under geared player, or tech the player group concepts, etc. But we all know the reality of the "Community" argument.

 

Players who think they are uber and insult new players.

Heh...

 

It's just players are too stupid or used to being coddled and hand held to use it.

Hypocrit much?

[chaosdefined]

LFG Tool

 

Pros: Find groups faster

 

Cons: Content nerfs

Ninja looter (yes they happen on occasion without LFD but the community of the server can enforce that)

Under geared players

Players who have no concept of group play (healer playing dps, players attacking everything in sight, dps thinking they can tank)

Players who think they are uber and insult new players.

 

I can do that too.

 

Pros: Experience content you're paying for

Don't have to break from the levelling process to sit in Fleet asking for a group.

If someone has to leave the group during a FP, whether it be by their choice or others, it's far easier to replace them and continue on.

More players will experience the Flashpoints and therefore will have a better understanding of how to act and play as part of a group.

Players on dead servers will no longer feel like they're alone in the game.

 

Cons: More likely to run into a bad player, which is just to do with statistics rather than evil magic LFG tool!

 

Oh look the Pros outweigh the cons for me!

 

Players who think they are uber and insult new players.

It's just players are too stupid or used to being coddled and hand held to use it. Learn to RPG. This is not a PS3 or 360 game.

 

Well you've just defeated your own argument there.

[chimunga]

I think an important part of any dungeon finder is to make it in-server. I'm not a big socializer, but when I do dungeons, I talk to people. Makes it easier to make friends in-game and makes in *much* easier to find a guild that suits you. Some people in "dead" servers might not like this, but I think it's important.

[chimunga]

I'm also wondering why content nerf would be part of it? Dungeons would be easier because you would easily find a healer, tank ad DPS, and not just have to make do with what you can find.

[chaosdefined]

I think an important part of any dungeon finder is to make it in-server. I'm not a big socializer, but when I do dungeons, I talk to people. Makes it easier to make friends in-game and makes in *much* easier to find a guild that suits you. Some people in "dead" servers might not like this, but I think it's important.

 

So an option for Single Server or Cross Server searching would be best. That way you can still group with people from your own server, and those on dead servers will be able to find a group a lot easier.

[chimunga]

So an option for Single Server or Cross Server searching would be best. That way you can still group with people from your own server, and those on dead servers will be able to find a group a lot easier.

 

Perfect idea

[Katahn]

Did you get bored and decide to restart the argument from the beginning? I thought we'd done all this

 

The argument doesn't become invalid because it has been used before. The problem of finding groups is composed of two component problems. The first is a combination of the clunkiness of the existing method of finding a group combined with player perception that LFG requires sitting around on the Fleet. The second is there are too many servers with light populations that exacerbate this situation. Both need to be fixed.

 

Ideally any fix should maximize the opportunities to get any kind of group, not just flashpoints. While I understand and appreciate that is what you want to do, not everyone is so single-minded about it. I want a tool that helps me do everything: instanced and non-instanced group content. Even someone who refuses to believe the "horror stories" can surely admit that cross-server LFG won't help with doing Heroics. It would solve part of the problem, but even discounting the downsides the rest of us anti-XLFG people keep bringing up surely we can agree the best solution would be something that maximizes everyone's chances to get ALL kinds of groups, not just flashpoints.

 

On a server with a healthy population a single-server tool would help with getting any kind of group - so the problem is what to do about low-population servers. The answer here still hasn't changed: server merges and transfers. Fortunately we know that Bioware is discussing this issue and they are concerned with it. We also know that server transfer tech is in-place for the APAC servers and they are actively working out the bugs with it now. It is simply a matter of time before they start offering transfers in an effort to balance out server populations and if that doesn't work then I am quite certain merges wouldn't be far behind.

 

This is the better approach. It takes care of the grouping situation without ignoring one entire class of group missions. It helps players find groups in a way that facilitates the formation of friendships via repeatedly grouping together; as a corallary it also helps finding a guild (group with a good unguilded player and its easy to invite them - they can't be from any other server than your own).

 

Again, I realize that low-population servers suck and trying to find a group can be challenging even on a high-population server. It may very well be that a cross-server tool is truly needed, but I would much rather try the BEST solution first and then if that doesn't work we can take the second-best solution and implement it in a way that avoids the mistakes of prior systems (which requires a fair bit more tech than just putting people in a flashpoint together).

[chaosdefined]

It feels that we came to a head on that discussion, and then out of nowhere you decided to repeat everything again?

[Katahn]

It feels that we came to a head on that discussion, and then out of nowhere you decided to repeat everything again?

 

Does this mean you acknowledge the validity of the point that a cross-server tool would be, at best, sub-par as a solution?

 

We have differing opinions on the merits and problems of a cross-server tool, but the fact that such a tool will only address a limited section of possible group content is not a matter of opinion - it is a matter of fact. It can only address content that is 100% instanced and even assuming that either every drawback or fear we anti-XLFG folks have is ridiculous and false it still doesn't allow a cross-server tool to work for non-instanced content. Meaning as a fix for a low-population server it fails.

[chaosdefined]

Does this mean you acknowledge the validity of the point that a cross-server tool would be, at best, sub-par as a solution?

 

We have differing opinions on the merits and problems of a cross-server tool, but the fact that such a tool will only address a limited section of possible group content is not a matter of opinion - it is a matter of fact. It can only address content that is 100% instanced and even assuming that either every drawback or fear we anti-XLFG folks have is ridiculous and false it still doesn't allow a cross-server tool to work for non-instanced content. Meaning as a fix for a low-population server it fails.

 

No I disagree on that, but we had came to an agreement of how it could be best created. I thought that was us coming to an understanding and compromise.

[Katahn]

How does a cross-server tool solve "no groups exist" for non-instanced content then? Your answer would seem to be "It doesn't, but that doesn't matter because all that is being asked for is Flashpoints." This is fine, that is what you want, but it would be inaccurate for you to represent what you want as being what everyone wants.

 

We do not see eye to eye on whether or not such a tool would be good or bad... but unless you say "people who want Heroics don't matter" then you cannot say XLFG is a real fix for the "can't find groups on low pop servers"

[eyebox]

Woodchip sure I was whiny but I still think it would help to add another companion. Give us the option for another companion for +2 till they get LFG figured out or till transfers kick in. The game certainlty plays like a single player and it could add a much needed dimension.

[bebelushu]

ok i guess it's hard to implement a LFG system , but there is a super simple solution, just make a lfg channel that works on all the plantes and easy.

[tkinnunzero]

How does a cross-server tool solve "no groups exist" for non-instanced content then? Your answer would seem to be "It doesn't, but that doesn't matter because all that is being asked for is Flashpoints." This is fine, that is what you want, but it would be inaccurate for you to represent what you want as being what everyone wants.

 

We do not see eye to eye on whether or not such a tool would be good or bad... but unless you say "people who want Heroics don't matter" then you cannot say XLFG is a real fix for the "can't find groups on low pop servers"

 

You saw the poll just as I did. If Bioware fixes making groups for Flashpoints before fixing everything else related to multiplayer content that will improve the gameplay experience for 85% of their players, then and there.

 

Would you rather have 85% of players wait while Bioware is trying to get their Group Finder to work juuust right in every circumstance?

[boviine]

no kidding-i like to rum HM'S and such, its sad when i cannt find one on a friday night or during the week (i have yet been able to do Lost island due to not finding a group). personally i hope they give us one upcomming soon. sadly i dont have a life and can play this game almost anytime i want and i want something to do weather its at 4 in the morning or 6 at night. And if they dont give us one, atlease give us the ability to use our companions to run em