HanzBlix Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I have a mix of champion/ raid gear (which I know will suck in 1.2), but I'm not concerned with that. I can hold my own against any other class including operatives, except for smugglers. Even though they are a mirror class, the smugglers just seem to destroy me. It's the same on my 50 sorcerer as well who is mostly in champion. I just can't counter them. Even with entrench up, then can still CC me, I can't seem to be able to get back into cover to pulse once they open up. By the time they are done with their stuns I'm either at 10% or zero health, and a health pack just isn't cutting it. I figure only the lightning tree can counter them on sorcerer with the CC's, but I like to heal on my sorcerer. I guess I can live with that, but it reall P's me off on my sniper. I kept getting into games with 3 geared smugs the other day in WZ and I had to stop. I just couldn't take it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technohic Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 On your back? Don't use your stun breaker. Standing up? use it regardless of resolve and flahs bang immediately and run like hell. Use a legshot as you go. lol I say that if they got the first drop on you from stealth. They probably are fresh and have all their abilities and you will be lucky to get away from a stun lock TBH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redial Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 if you mean the ops mirror, they are the class i have the hardest time with. Your win/loss perception is skewed also because of their biggest advantage which is theyget to determine when to engage. If you happen to come accross an op in the battlefield, it might not be so hard, but if they dont have full health and they are in stealth, they just walk away. Then as the guy above said, they come back with full health and cooldowns, and probably wait to see you blow a cooldown and get down to 75% to even open on you. And that takes away your biggest advantage which is range. I hate them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanzBlix Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 Glad it's not just me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrys Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 they succesfully hide the WMD until they ambush. Not sure on your difference between them and normal conceal operatives. I'ld guess gear/skill of the ones you come across. Possibly spec on my healing operative I'll sometimes ambush a sniper just to move them have them blow a CD with no intent of killing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mredders Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 stun/CC or kite them towards your team. Im assuming your fighting scoundrels on 1v1 that has all its skills ready is difficult alone simerly if they catch you in cover and stun, so your best counter is to stun/CC or to kite towards another team member that can lend and hand, however if you find one on another of your team keep out of melee range and hit them hard and they will die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalliadies Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) Operatives/Scoundrels are the most painful class to deal with. You will always fight on their terms, and they will have unloaded on you before you can react. They will always CC chain you from stealth, knockdown then stun when that wears off. Escape needs to be used on the second. From there I will always CC (they will break), you need to hit with legshot just after they break. If possible leave the root for the entire duration and create some distance. Most of my deaths are from such cases but in the end it is fair (they are our hard counter). You will tend to remember them more than other classes because they have such a high success rate. The thing to remember is, look at the score board at the end, you will generally find they had lower kills and more deaths than you. I had one game with a really well geared op (and a great player) Kill me repeatedly (I managed to create distance only once to kill him). it felt like I had died to him 1000 times. At the end of the game I only had 4 deaths (all him. he had 8 deaths and half my kills Edited April 4, 2012 by Kalliadies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somokon Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Against a skilled concealment op/scrapper scoundrel with their cooldowns up, the short answer is you can't win. A sniper does not have defensive 'panic buttons' like some other classes. Our defense is based on properly positioning yourself and keeping enemies away from you, which obviously you cannot do against stealth. Your best bet when you notice one of these guys on the opposite team is to keep your cc breaker up, use it on their opener, stun them, and try to run to your teammates. If you manage to stun right as they open, it is possible to burst them down, but if they have vanish/evasion up your chances of killing them are slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veala Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) First off, if you're Lethality, you're pretty much screwed. A good Scoundrel can neuter your offense with a single cleanse, and if he doesn't your dots will ruin half your CCs. Marksman can win if the stars align, but it's the hardest fight you'll have to deal with aside from a tank geared Assassin/Shadow. First thing you do after the knockdown: Point your camera at them, hold your walk backwards key, and spam your Debilitate/Flashbang hotkey. If they allow you a split second between the knockdown and the stun (and most do), this will let you get your stun off before they can lock you down again. Your goal now is to get to your teammates if any are close, and to build as much distance as you can. Entrench is often a good idea here too. If they use their cc break on your stun, now is the time to drop into cover and pulse them away. At this point just treat them like any other melee combatant, but watch out for a surprise Dodge while they're rooted. It'll remove your roots and make them immune to most of your shots. When it goes up is a good time to use Debilitate or Flashbang (whichever is up) so they don't get that free dps time on you, or swap to Frag Grenades and Explosive Probe if you can't control them or have plenty of distance to work with. Make sure and use Diversion if you're MM and the Scoundrel has you stuck in melee range. Use your best judgement as to when to Entrench, if I know their stun is available I usually Entrench as soon as I get out of melee range after my initial stun. Entrench makes an excellent counter to a Vanish -> Shoot First combo, though. If a Scoundrel Vanishes while he still has plenty of health, he's planning to hit you with another Shoot First knockdown. IMMEDIATELY drop into cover and get Entrench up. Most Scoundrels get thrown off their game when Shoot First doesn't knock down, and then you can use your CCs to get back into a position where you have the advantage. Do the same thing if you glimpse a Scoundrel moving into stealth behind you. Deny them the Shoot First knockdown and your odds of surviving the attack increase considerably. It's a tough fight though, you're going to lose most of the time. Your goal should usually be to survive rather than win =p Edited April 4, 2012 by Veala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wessik Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) assassins are my bane, i don't really have too much issue with ops/scoundrels, however if i don't have my escape ready then i'm probably screwed... for MM: if they attack you from stealth, they are going to knock you down first, DO NOT TRINKET. let them get their couple of shots in... while you are waiting to pick yourself off the floor, spam your debiliate key... as soon as you are "active" again, you stun them... you can either run away or fight: 1. leg shot and run away or 2. i don't move away (you can if you want), entrench and hit your heal... 3. have corrosion dart and leg shot ready if you think they will bolt... or if they aren't taking off, you can shatter shot, and then either orbital strike yourself or ambush + exp probe them... throw a diversion in there as well... dps them down throw in evasion, shield probe, ballistic shield if needed cover pulse or flashbang if needed Edited April 4, 2012 by wessik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BambulaGTS Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 (edited) You can't counter them by yourself. They are designed to counter you by themselves. Your teammates can save you by heals, guard, taunt. Edited April 4, 2012 by BambulaGTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcayd Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I don't think ops are meant to counter snipers, but our toolset is such that all the cards are stacked against you. Realistically, an operative will beat a sniper of equal skill every time assuming all cd's are up for both classes. I want to roll a sniper, but I know how badly operatives tear them up because snipers are one of my favorite targets. Atleast with ops I can go toe to toe with other classes assuming I have most/all CDs and I'm in stealth already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangarrage Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Against a skilled concealment op/scrapper scoundrel with their cooldowns up, the short answer is you can't win. A sniper does not have defensive 'panic buttons' like some other classes. This is really the only thing you need to know It is simply the closest thing to fact. The strat for them which was mentioned earlier will more then likely have you at 40% and them at 100% and then ofc the sharks start circling and you get killed by some random maurader who cant kill you 100% vs 100% Either way it is lose/lose Tankasins are the same deal Stealth is such a ridiculously huge advantage And even if everything goes perfect and you start winning they poof on you They will be alot easier in 1.2 but right now I honestly just throw my hands up in air when 1 of the 5 ops on my server are on me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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