Angedechu Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 The plan at the end of ROTS is ''hide the children away, so the Emperor can't find them'' Ok, I admit that the most obvious way to not prevent the kids to fall into the Emperor hands is probably ouf of question since you need the kids to save the galaxy, but this plan was so baffingly incompetently executed that it's boggling the mind..... Without ignoring the whole ''let's hide Luke Skywalker on Tatooine, with is in-laws, without even giving him a fake name'' , let's see the genial decision of hiding a savior of the galaxy as the adoptive daughter of Bail Organa 1)Yoda, you just fought Darth Sidious. You know Bail Organa was one of the fiercest opponents of Palpatine. One and One can you add, Yoda ? Sidious made a whole war to get to power, don't you think there is a huge chance he try at some point to kill Organa who nagged him during all the Clone Wars ? 2)Bail, considering you have as your ward one absolutely vital asset for the Galaxy, have you considered trying to turn away from a career in politics, especially one that will have her meeting on a regular basis Sidious ? (granted, Bail probably did not knew Anakin was Vader...) As, you know, a Sith can recognize a force user when the plot call for it. Is this really necessary to send her into missions for the Rebellion that have a huge risk to get her killed, when any Alderaan senator (yourself included) could have done the trick ? 3)And this is the most baffling one. Who ever thought that adopting a kid would be a good idea for the royalty ? Especially as this is supposed to be secret, and that the Queen was a public figure, who had 5 miscarriages previously. How the hell you are going to explain to the media that your wife delivered a healthty girl when she make daily appearances ? (Not to mention that Bail have a lot of parents that would be delighted to ask questions about the newborn, as the newborn compromise their jobs chances...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Nobody ever said it made sense. NOBODY. You're 100% right, but it's a fantasy where everyone does everything the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) Well for Luke and the last name bit, theres billions of people in the galaxy...how do we know that Skywalker isn't used by someone else? 1. Palpatine didn't know that Bail was forming a resistance, up until TFU when he had all the Rebellion leaders. He didn't know who his enemies were up until then. 2. Padme wasn't that attuned with the force, to where she could be sensed outright...plus she can take care of herself. 3. She was adopted and given the last name Organa, its not that hard to say "oh since me and my wife, couldn't make a baby we decided to adopt." I don't think royalty in this universe, goes by the same rules as ours...even then in RL you didn't need to be of blood to be royalty you could marry into it. Edited April 2, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) Well for Luke and the last name bit, theres billions of people in the galaxy...how do we know that Skywalker isn't used by someone else? 1. Palpatine didn't know that Bail was forming a resistance, up until TFU when he had all the Rebellion leaders. He didn't know who his enemies were up until then. 2. Padme wasn't that attuned with the force, to where she could be sensed outright...plus she can take care of herself. 3. She was adopted and given the last name Organa, its not that hard to say "oh since me and my wife, couldn't make a baby we decided to adopt." I don't think royalty in this universe, goes by the same rules as ours...even then in RL you didn't need to be of blood to be royalty you could marry into it. Exept Leia obviously think Bail is her true father. As for monarchy rules, Bail and his wife got wed together for avoid a feud between families on Alderaan Do you imagine the amount of bloody outrage there would be from Organa and Antilles family if Bail decided to just adopt ? Edited April 2, 2012 by Angedechu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Exept Leia obviously think Bail is her true father. No they didn't hide that from her. All they did hide, was her true parentage and her twin brother Luke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 I'm pretty sure that Leia said at one point that she thought she was Bail kid. This said, check the wiki for James II of England about the public reaction to an supposed adoption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) I'm pretty sure that Leia said at one point that she thought she was Bail kid. This said, check the wiki for James II of England about the public reaction to an supposed adoption. She never said it in the movies that she was Bail's kid, all she said about him was with the message in R2 but that was her father anyway. Again...this isn't real life, so James the 2nd's reaction to adoption doesn't hold weight in a fictional universe. You need to use fictional information, in a fictional universe to have it make any sense. Using RL quotes and such, doesn't go anywhere. Edited April 2, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) The orphaned daughter of the Naboo Senator and a fallen Jedi Knight was given a loving home within the House of Organa, one of the galaxy's so-called Ancient Houses. Her adoptive parents could not have children of their own, so Leia became the heir of the Royal House of Alderaan. Although the Organas were not trying to hide the fact that Leia was adopted, they never informed the Princess of her true parentage, nor did they reveal the existence of her twin brother. However, during the short time between her birth and her mother's death, Leia gained a faint memory of her mother as a beautiful and kind, yet sad woman. Edited April 2, 2012 by casi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 The orphaned daughter of the Naboo Senator and a fallen Jedi Knight was given a loving home within the House of Organa, one of the galaxy's so-called Ancient Houses. Her adoptive parents could not have children of their own, so Leia became the heir of the Royal House of Alderaan. Although the Organas were not trying to hide the fact that Leia was adopted, they never informed the Princess of her true parentage, nor did they reveal the existence of her twin brother. However, during the short time between her birth and her mother's death, Leia gained a faint memory of her mother as a beautiful and kind, yet sad woman. Ok, but WHICH mother is she remembering? If it's Padme, then she remembers being born? That doesn't make sense.... Now, I was under the impression that Bail Organa's wife died when Leia was very young as well, but old enough to remember her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) Ok, but WHICH mother is she remembering? If it's Padme, then she remembers being born? That doesn't make sense.... Now, I was under the impression that Bail Organa's wife died when Leia was very young as well, but old enough to remember her. No Breha Organa died when Alderaan was destroyed. Or at least that is the most likely outcome as it points to it, and her death date does say 0 BBY. Edited April 2, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Angedechu;3716171]The plan at the end of ROTS is ''hide the children away, so the Emperor can't find them'' Ok, I admit that the most obvious way to not prevent the kids to fall into the Emperor hands is probably ouf of question since you need the kids to save the galaxy, but this plan was so baffingly incompetently executed that it's boggling the mind..... 2)Bail, considering you have as your ward one absolutely vital asset for the Galaxy, have you considered trying to turn away from a career in politics, especially one that will have her meeting on a regular basis Sidious ? (granted, Bail probably did not knew Anakin was Vader...) As, you know, a Sith can recognize a force user when the plot call for it. Is this really necessary to send her into missions for the Rebellion that have a huge risk to get her killed, when any Alderaan senator (yourself included) could have done the trick ? Despite these ties to the Rebellion, Organa was outwardly one of the most loyal of Imperial Senators, and greatly respected by many. This could be why Emperor Palpatine never attempted to kill him, while showing no such restraint with his fellow Alliance co-founders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 Sidious tried at least once to openly assassinate him, by sending it to a sith planet (Wild Space novel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Sidious tried at least once to openly assassinate him, by sending it to a sith planet (Wild Space novel) From my understanding of the book Sidious was after Obi-Wan on Zigoola. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 No Breha Organa died when Alderaan was destroyed. Or at least that is the most likely outcome as it points to it, and her death date does say 0 BBY. Ok, I now officially give up on Star Wars lore and plot holes in general. They tend to be filled pretty sloppily, from what I've seen. The best filler was the Kessel Run explanation, imo. It makes sense that the Falcon was fast enough to skirt the singularities close enough to shave some parsecs off the distance. Other than that.... yeah, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) Ok, I now officially give up on Star Wars lore and plot holes in general. They tend to be filled pretty sloppily, from what I've seen. The best filler was the Kessel Run explanation, imo. It makes sense that the Falcon was fast enough to skirt the singularities close enough to shave some parsecs off the distance. Other than that.... yeah, no. I don't see how thats sloppy...she died when Alderaan blew up as did Bail and all the other people. I mean it is where she lives after all. Edited April 2, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 In universe, the Bail and Antilles familly were about to go to war before C'Baoth settled a wedding deal In those deals, the idea is ''the off spring will from both our families''. Bail Organa adopting a kid would raise bloody hell on Alderaan. All his brothers, cousins, sisters. etc...would feel cheated and robbed of their right, and the Empire would glady hear their complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) In universe, the Bail and Antilles familly were about to go to war before C'Baoth settled a wedding deal In those deals, the idea is ''the off spring will from both our families''. Bail Organa adopting a kid would raise bloody hell on Alderaan. All his brothers, cousins, sisters. etc...would feel cheated and robbed of their right, and the Empire would glady hear their complaints. How would they feel cheated of anything, if nothing happened? Besides he was the ruler of Alderaan why would anyone question him anyway? Ya the Empire would hear them, and most likely ignore them as they have more pressing matters to attend to like dealing with the Rebel Alliance. I mean its pretty obvious, that no one really gave a **** cause they didn't say anything about it...and the Empire cared even less cause they blew the planet up. Edited April 2, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) I don't see how thats sloppy...she died when Alderaan blew up as did Bail and all the other people. I mean it is where she lives after all. No, I'm talking about Leia "remembering" Padme in RotJ. Seriously, if she remembered her but Luke didn't.... Seems a bit fishy to me. Also, Leia was never told she was adopted. Also, I bet Luke and Leia never thought it was strange to be celebrating their birthday on the SAME day and not figure it out.... Edited April 2, 2012 by Captain_Zone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) No, I'm talking about Leia "remembering" Padme in RotJ. Seriously, if she remembered her but Luke didn't.... Seems a bit fishy to me. Also, Leia was never told she was adopted. Also, I bet Luke and Leia never thought it was strange to be celebrating their birthday on the SAME day and not figure it out.... Apparently she was, seeing as Bail and Berha only hide who her parents were and her brother its never stated that they hid her of being adopted. To the birthday thing....ya their birthdays would be on the same day but, I mean you got billions of people in the galaxy many of them could have the same birthdays ya know. I mean even in RL, you got people that were born on the same day. Edited April 2, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 How would they feel cheated of anything, if nothing happened? Besides he was the ruler of Alderaan why would anyone question him anyway? Ya the Empire would hear them, and most likely ignore them as they have more pressing matters to attend to like dealing with the Rebel Alliance. No, Galactic Empires totally don't use family feuds on Alderaan to push favorable candidates. Oh no, not at all. That totally don't happen in TOR. More seriously, a king is a cushy job, and the only requirement is ''be blood related to it''. For instance, suppose that Bail have a brother. The brother would be his heir, as Bail is childless. Bail adopting means his chances on the throne are ruined. (The whole of of ''legitimacy, btw, was to prevent constant civil wars) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Apparently she was, seeing as Bail and Berha only hide who her parents were and her brother its never stated that they hid her of being adopted. To the birthday thing....ya their birthdays would be on the same day but, I mean you got billions of people in the galaxy many of them could have the same birthdays ya know. I mean even in RL, you got people that were born on the same day. Well, by her own admission, she KNEW that Luke was her brother when she slipped him some tongue on Hoth. Yes, George Lucas got away with a helluva practical joke there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 No, Galactic Empires totally don't use family feuds on Alderaan to push favorable candidates. Oh no, not at all. That totally don't happen in TOR. More seriously, a king is a cushy job, and the only requirement is ''be blood related to it''. For instance, suppose that Bail have a brother. The brother would be his heir, as Bail is childless. Bail adopting means his chances on the throne are ruined. (The whole of of ''legitimacy, btw, was to prevent constant civil wars) Two very different timelines here, besides in this era Alderaan isn't completely allied with one side or the other. But again...none of that matters seeing as the Empire, clearly didn't give two ***** about Alderaan and completely blew it up with the death star. So even if there was fighting...its gone now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 No, Galactic Empires totally don't use family feuds on Alderaan to push favorable candidates. Oh no, not at all. That totally don't happen in TOR. More seriously, a king is a cushy job, and the only requirement is ''be blood related to it''. For instance, suppose that Bail have a brother. The brother would be his heir, as Bail is childless. Bail adopting means his chances on the throne are ruined. (The whole of of ''legitimacy, btw, was to prevent constant civil wars) And having dealt with the nobles on Alderaan, I can say with certainty that Tarkin did the entire galaxy a favor at the beginning of A New Hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 In universe, the Bail and Antilles familly were about to go to war before C'Baoth settled a wedding deal In those deals, the idea is ''the off spring will from both our families''. Bail Organa adopting a kid would raise bloody hell on Alderaan. All his brothers, cousins, sisters. etc...would feel cheated and robbed of their right, and the Empire would glady hear their complaints. He was raising her to follow him into the Senate so why would anyone complain about that? You had to be elected for the Senate it wasn't somethin just handed to them. Also the empire at the time of Leia's birth had no reason to become involved in the politics of another planet. and considering Sidious had more pressing concerns (like the destruction of the Jedi) he wouldn't have taken the time on something for him that was trivial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted April 2, 2012 Author Share Posted April 2, 2012 Except that a plot point is that the Galactic Empire meddled a lot in inner poltiics, propping candidates on local thrones on a regular basis (Warrior Princess comic is a good example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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