Jistic Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 So since the patch notes seem to be killing the Parakeet spec, how will it affect the Iron Fist build for pvp? I havent looked to much into yet. And has anyone played around with new pvp tanking builds for the new patch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 So since the patch notes seem to be killing the Parakeet spec, how will it affect the Iron Fist build for pvp? I havent looked to much into yet. And has anyone played around with new pvp tanking builds for the new patch? With the changes to Shield Tree, and heat blast being off GCD, I can't see much reason to spec IF.... But that's my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seabromd Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 With the changes to Shield Tree, and heat blast being off GCD, I can't see much reason to spec IF.... But that's my opinion. I don't really see how the changes to the shield tree make it less interesting/necessary to go Ironfist in PvP... Heat Blast is still on a 15 sec cooldown, and thus does not provide sufficient DPS compensation. And the tier before it, while looking better for PvE tanking, is still useless in PvP d/t the nature of absorption vs player abilities. Ironfist is a hybrid. It lets you take a bit more damage, limit damage to your fellow players, but at the end of the day tries to pick up damage dealing abilities. Full ST still can't do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I don't really see how the changes to the shield tree make it less interesting/necessary to go Ironfist in PvP... Heat Blast is still on a 15 sec cooldown, and thus does not provide sufficient DPS compensation. And the tier before it, while looking better for PvE tanking, is still useless in PvP d/t the nature of absorption vs player abilities. Ironfist is a hybrid. It lets you take a bit more damage, limit damage to your fellow players, but at the end of the day tries to pick up damage dealing abilities. Full ST still can't do that. IF is not a Hybrid. It's a tank spec with points in AP for Quell Cooldown. You will not survive longer with an IF Build. And you trade Heat Blast for a lackluster Retractable Blade.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 IF is not a Hybrid. It's a tank spec with points in AP for Quell Cooldown. You will not survive longer with an IF Build. And you trade Heat Blast for a lackluster Retractable Blade.... And you also do not do more dps/damage/burst as an IF vs a Full ST. In fact, it is usually less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plosive Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 IF is not a Hybrid. It's a tank spec with points in AP for Quell Cooldown. You will not survive longer with an IF Build. And you trade Heat Blast for a lackluster Retractable Blade.... Agreed, but Taugrim removed the point in retractable blade. Full ST = very slight increase in survivability (from the extra shield) and heat blast Iron fist = decreased quell cooldown and possibly 6% dmg on flame burst and 10 second decrease of grapple cooldown Will IF provide more DPS than a full ST build? Barely, if any... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exphryl Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Random question as we talk about new builds and such. Do any of the talent builders on the various sites have a PTS version running yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Agreed, but Taugrim removed the point in retractable blade. Full ST = very slight increase in survivability (from the extra shield) and heat blast Iron fist = decreased quell cooldown and possibly 6% dmg on flame burst and 10 second decrease of grapple cooldown Will IF provide more DPS than a full ST build? Barely, if any... As a 31 ST, Heat Blast is superior to 6% on flame burst. In 1.2 eventhough its dmg got decreased, it will still be good since it will be off of GCD and allows for fast heat venting which would lead to more spamable abilities. Also you can still go 31 ST and get 6% flame burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) For me the big decision maker is the usefulness of Heat Burst vs. Quell. If heat burst is the shiz, full ST spec. If not, it's going to be IF. I tend towards IF anyways, not for the damage, but simply for the added utility of lower CD grapples and Quell. I would hate to think that someone standing around venting heat with heatburst has a greater impact on a WZ than someone stripping and interrupting ball handlers, healers and cappers. More spamming of other abilities is nice but I don't see how that's going to work if the capability to spam other abilities is partially reliant on the spamming of some other ability. I think a better strategy ... manage your heat better. Edited March 28, 2012 by Obtena Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleMagick Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Keep in mind that Quell will use no heat in 1.2. I think this is even more significant than Heat Blast being taken off GCD in regards to heat management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seabromd Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 And you also do not do more dps/damage/burst as an IF vs a Full ST. In fact, it is usually less. How do you usually do less? I had always assumed RB was reasonable... but I still don't see how it works out. You get the 6% increase to FB and RB (FB being a semi spammable ability in this build since you're waiting for other stuff to come off cd), and RB states it does nearly the same damage up front plus the DoT. Not trying to pick a fight, just curious what it was I was missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 How do you usually do less? I had always assumed RB was reasonable... but I still don't see how it works out. You get the 6% increase to FB and RB (FB being a semi spammable ability in this build since you're waiting for other stuff to come off cd), and RB states it does nearly the same damage up front plus the DoT. Not trying to pick a fight, just curious what it was I was missing. It is fair question. There is absolutely no reason for me to think you are picking a fight RB's damage, because of the "type" of damage, is mitigated by armor 25%-40% if its damage can be mitigated. So at best we can go as far as saying that it will do total damage similar to heat blast. But why would you want that damage to be a split into instant/dot instead of all instant? Not to mention dots can be cleansed. Also Heat Blast vents heat at the same time, that indirectly increases damage because you can spam more of the heat generating abilities. As far as the 8% to FB, there is absolutely no reason why a full ST spec cant have them. This is the spec I use when I run as a PvP tank http://r2-db.com/skill-tree/calculator/9/bounty-hunter/powertech#build=fdfe6cedd831c0000000c00000000 You see that I dipped into Hot Iron with 1 point. But if I wanted I could just as easily take 2/2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seabromd Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I see you skipped a point in Supercharged Ion Gas, I thought that one seemed like an obvious choice! What's wrong with it?? My whole world is upside down No but really. Otherwise, thanks for the explanation. I have more to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I see you skipped a point in Supercharged Ion Gas, I thought that one seemed like an obvious choice! What's wrong with it?? My whole world is upside down No but really. Otherwise, thanks for the explanation. I have more to think about. Actually that is intentional. The damage that IGC does is insignificant, that it's not worth spending points in it. Remember that the tooltip does not reflect the actual damage of IGC. Otherwise I would have also taken Prototype Cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIMadman Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Have they changed heat blast's damage? I always thought it was kind of lackluster. Flame burst does more damage it seemed. If you want a pure tank spec, I have an interesting template. It's all tank and cc though, no dps(like at all). It's pretty ok, I don't die a lot. It's pretty good and stopping progression of the enemy if coupled with a mix of SuperCommando and CombatTech gear, you get the bonuses to jet charge and the neural charge/carbonize. I do think the last 5 shield pts are helpful in pvp. Maybe not against sorcs/sages, who make up the largest percentage of jedi on my server, but against the rest it's pretty ok. Everyone seems to be ditching tracer for ptech. I can always dump those shield points, however, and just go quell again. Edited March 29, 2012 by DIMadman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Have they changed heat blast's damage? I always thought it was kind of lackluster. Flame burst does more damage it seemed. If you want a pure tank spec, I have an interesting template. It's all tank and cc though, no dps(like at all). It's pretty ok, I don't die a lot. It's pretty good and stopping progression of the enemy if coupled with a mix of SuperCommando and CombatTech gear, you get the bonuses to jet charge and the neural charge/carbonize. I do think the last 5 shield pts are helpful in pvp. Maybe not against sorcs/sages, who make up the largest percentage of jedi on my server, but against the rest it's pretty ok. Everyone seems to be ditching tracer for ptech. I can always dump those shield points, however, and just go quell again. The main benefit of using Heat blast is for heat venting. In 1.2 they are decreasing the damage by 15% but they took it off of the GCD, which will make it even more useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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