Jandi Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 What the hell more do you want?! Single-shard sandbox where you can't leave a town without at least a group of 10 people in fear of getting eaten by the cookie monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 A non-static world, far less instanced world. RIFT has non-instanced worlds. What does that gain the player? Yay! There are a hundred people around, but I can only see 25! Yayness galore! No thanks. I'd rather have players around that I can actually interact with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Single-shard sandbox where you can't leave a town without at least a group of 10 people in fear of getting eaten by the cookie monster. LOL!! Nice. Exactly, games that did this failed horribly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) RIFT has non-instanced worlds. What does that gain the player? Yay! There are a hundred people around, but I can only see 25! Yayness galore! No thanks. I'd rather have players around that I can actually interact with... Why can't you see more than 25? I call BS on that statement. Just using TERA as an example (screwing around in the beta right now), I can see every single person in the capital city as long as they're within eye shot, which is easily over 50 just in the section in which I'm loitering. Edited April 8, 2012 by Gungan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansultares Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Having a full group in exceedingly beneficial in this game. For FPs, Ops, and even leveling. There are xp bonuses, loot bonuses, etc to grouping for leveling quests. How is that only "co-op"? You can solo them, or you can do them in a group for better xp and loot. What the hell more do you want?!What? Unless you have a consistent group (aka co-op), the time spent putting together a group is a major drain on any rewards, and solo questing is just so much better rewarded in all the ways you listed. TOR at 3 months old is five times the MMO WoW was at 3 months old.Hardly, but I suspect this has everything to do with how engaged one is by the cutscenes. I find them totally unengaging, and a shallow replacement for quest text and virtual world design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Why can't you see more than 25? I call BS on that statement. Just using TERA as an example (screwing around in the beta right now), I can see every single person in the capital city as long as they're within eye shot, which is easily over 50 just in the section in which I'm loitering. The server doesn't allow you to see more than 25, or you plain can't move, no matter how good your hardware is. This isn't 2005 anymore... TERA?! Are you serious? There are enough people complaining about substandard graphics as it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundhila Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) I take it you didn't play WoW when it was only 3 months old? TOR at 3 months old is five times the MMO WoW was at 3 months old. No, it doesn't make a difference the time difference. A 3-month-old MMO is a 3-month-old MMO. Comparing WOW at 3 months to a MMO of today isn't logical. The fact is SWTOR had FREE R&D done for it by other games that came before it, so basically it should have all those features and then MORE. As far as it being FIVE Times the MMO WOW was at launch, well I would hope so after 10 friggen years they learned something. Apparently not enough though when you still have to stand around in fleet spamming for groups (sometimes for more than an hour). Frak FIVE times, it should be 100 times more at launch than WOW was. Edited April 8, 2012 by Brundhila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Comparing WOW at 3 months to a MMO of today isn't logical. The fact is SWTOR had FREE R&D done for it by other games that came before it, so basically it should have all those features and then MORE. As far as it being FIVE Times the MMO WOW was at launch, well I would hope so after 10 friggen years they learned something. Apparently not enough though when you still have to stand around in fleet spamming for groups (sometimes for more than an hour). Frak FIVE times, it should be 100 times more at launch than WOW was. You forgot to add that it should also cure cancer WHILE keeping your girlfriend happy. Un-effing-acceptable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 What? Unless you have a consistent group (aka co-op), the time spent putting together a group is a major drain on any rewards, and solo questing is just so much better rewarded in all the ways you listed. Actually, no, it's not. I have friends who grouped from level 1 clear through level 47. When they reached level 46, they JUST got done with chapter 2. The gear they looted was almost always blues, and a plethora of purples. Not so on any of my 11 characters that I solo'd, 2 to 50, 2 to 45, and the rest past Chapter One. Hardly ever looted a blue, and can count on one hand how many purples I looted out of all 11 of those characters. You, my friend, are plain wrong. Hell, even the loading screen tooltips tell you that you get better loot and more xp by grouping. Sheesh... Hardly, but I suspect this has everything to do with how engaged one is by the cutscenes. I find them totally unengaging, and a shallow replacement for quest text and virtual world design. I am currently also replaying Mass Effects 1 and 2 to play 3. I replayed KotOR 1 and 2 just before TOR launched. The cutscenes in those BioWare games are absolutely just as engaging, just as interesting, and just as well done, if not more so, than those games. If you can't find anything interesting in TOR's cutscenes, I dare say that BioWare games are just not for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josiv Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Got to level 25 on my sorc and was bored senseless. I really wanted this to be great, but until some major changes go down, I cant see myself spending anymore money on this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeramieCrowe Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Comparing WOW at 3 months to a MMO of today isn't logical. The fact is SWTOR had FREE R&D done for it by other games that came before it, so basically it should have all those features and then MORE. As far as it being FIVE Times the MMO WOW was at launch, well I would hope so after 10 friggen years they learned something. Apparently not enough though when you still have to stand around in fleet spamming for groups (sometimes for more than an hour). Frak FIVE times, it should be 100 times more at launch than WOW was. That's completely illogical. If the monthly price for MMOs is FIVE times more than it was then, then you can logically make that conclusion. However, it's not. It's still exactly the same. RIFT, which only launched a year ago, was exactly the same way. No LFG tool at launch, only 1 raid, except RIFT had the EXACT SAME STORYLINE for ALL classes of a faction all the way to 50. In fact, there was over 50% repeated content between the two factions. In TOR, there is not ONE single shred of repeated content between the two factions. The Tatooine Rakata questline gets dangerously close, but it's still not technically the same content, and it's the ONLY example in TOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) The server doesn't allow you to see more than 25, or you plain can't move, no matter how good your hardware is. This isn't 2005 anymore... TERA?! Are you serious? There are enough people complaining about substandard graphics as it is... That's more of a problem with Rift than a populous MMO in general. WoW never hid people from you either. As for the rest of the statement. I'm sorry, what? Are you trying to imply TERA has worse graphics than SWTOR? Aethetics != graphics. Unreal 3 Engine with unique high poly armor meshes >>>>>> Hero Engine with slap on textures. Edited April 8, 2012 by Gungan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintan Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 It's funny, Bioware devs sound like SWAT negotiators: "We are working on server transfer, we are continuing to work on server transfers" Lol, we're working on getting you that helicopter. It's just sad the way this boat is sinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundhila Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 That's completely illogical. If the monthly price for MMOs is FIVE times more than it was then, then you can logically make that conclusion. However, it's not. It's still exactly the same. RIFT, which only launched a year ago, was exactly the same way. No LFG tool at launch, only 1 raid, except RIFT had the EXACT SAME STORYLINE for ALL classes of a faction all the way to 50. In fact, there was over 50% repeated content between the two factions. In TOR, there is not ONE single shred of repeated content between the two factions. The Tatooine Rakata questline gets dangerously close, but it's still not technically the same content, and it's the ONLY example in TOR. Wrong. Its called progression, technology and innovation. Based on what your saying someone today can release a game exactly like Everquest and be fine, because well you dont want to have to pay more right? Let's see how well that game does. As far as Rift goes, true it didnt have a decent LFG, but you had flexible specs, a good AH and properly leveled pvp action. It took some innovation and implemented it at launch UNLIKE Swotor. Like I said, you like the game? Goodie for you. For some of us its lacking horribly in basic MMO design of the current times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Got to level 25 on my sorc and was bored senseless. I really wanted this to be great, but until some major changes go down, I cant see myself spending anymore money on this game. Then don't. The fundamental mechanics will never change. If you're bored at lvl25, you will always be bored at lvl25. I can't stand racing games because I find driving a car boring but I don't expect the next Gran Tourismo game to include bicycles, either. No reason to force yourself to play a game that at it's core is built around game mechanics and systems that you simply do not enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundhila Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 You forgot to add that it should also cure cancer WHILE keeping your girlfriend happy. Un-effing-acceptable! With all the FREE R&D BW had, painfully developed by others,l it should at least be a cure for boredom, not a cause of it. And my boyfriend watches sports while I game, it works out fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) I am currently also replaying Mass Effects 1 and 2 to play 3. I replayed KotOR 1 and 2 just before TOR launched. The cutscenes in those BioWare games are absolutely just as engaging, just as interesting, and just as well done, if not more so, than those games. If you can't find anything interesting in TOR's cutscenes, I dare say that BioWare games are just not for you. In those games your choices matter (until the last mission of ME3 anyways). If you make the wrong decisions, main characters die - not just the friggin red shirts that are introduced at the start of the mission. If you let the council die, the council is gone for the rest of the 90+ hours of the series. There is no such distinction in SWTOR. Every conversation option leads to the same result. Every Sith Warrior gets onto the Dark Council, every Jedi Knight kills the Emperor, etc. The only thing that changes is whether you get light side points, or dark side points. Hell, one of the options for Sith Inquisitor on Dromuund Kaas that really stands out as an example of this is to kill the slaves quickly, or kill them slowly. Edited April 8, 2012 by Gungan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintan Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 I hope this game manages to stay alive so that it can be the place for beginning MMO players to come and start the transition to a real MMO. I heard a Dev in the darthhater.com recording from PAX say that SWTOR "has a river of features" and I literally spit my drink out and LMAO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 That's more of a problem with Rift than a populous MMO in general. WoW never hid people from you either. Yes and it became a slideshow or the server simply crashed, just like WAR and every other game ever made. The fact is that we simply do not have the technology for it available. When the AQ gates opened on Al'Akir... the server crashed multiple times and even being on the same continent made your client sceam in agony. Fort battles in WAR? GREAT idea, massive battles? Sure. *anyone* with over 5fps? No, not in a million years. Most people slugged it out, mashing buttons and watching stuff move once every 10 seconds or so. Anarchy Online? .2 fps in the good old days, if you were lucky. If not? Well... the loading screen became your desktop wallpaper. SWG? rofl... just... yeah, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) Yes and it became a slideshow or the server simply crashed, just like WAR and every other game ever made. The fact is that we simply do not have the technology for it available. When the AQ gates opened on Al'Akir... the server crashed multiple times and even being on the same continent made your client sceam in agony. Fort battles in WAR? GREAT idea, massive battles? Sure. *anyone* with over 5fps? No, not in a million years. Most people slugged it out, mashing buttons and watching stuff move once every 10 seconds or so. Anarchy Online? .2 fps in the good old days, if you were lucky. If not? Well... the loading screen became your desktop wallpaper. SWG? rofl... just... yeah, no. It's one thing when everybody currently on the server goes to AQ opening - that's not normal play. There is no reason at all to hide everyone once there are more than 25 people on the screen. I don't remember lagging in Alterac Valley since like 2008. Edited April 8, 2012 by Gungan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 People who don't know the first thing about coding shouldn't comment on coding. You don't know the first thing about software development so just shut up about it. He's not talking about coding. He's talking about systems design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 It's one thing when everybody currently on the server goes to AQ opening - that's not normal play. There is no reason at all to hide everyone once there are more than 25 people on the screen. I don't remember lagging in Alterac Valley since like 2008. Yeah because WoW models and textures are so simplistic and easy to render. The fact that you even lagged there should be evidence enough about the behavior of clients under stress. Everything in WoW is an optical illusion. From the scenery to the sky to the character models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 He's not talking about coding. He's talking about systems design. Yes because having a great idea makes it magically appear, instantly. Jesus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) Yeah because WoW models and textures are so simplistic and easy to render. The fact that you even lagged there should be evidence enough about the behavior of clients under stress. Everything in WoW is an optical illusion. From the scenery to the sky to the character models. I can render 50 people and their vendor pets in the main city in TERA no problem, at a higher frame rate than SWTOR with 1 or 2 people in line of sight on the fleet. Both games at max settings. Bad engine and no optimization are not an excuse. Edited April 8, 2012 by Gungan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden_Dissent Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) I can render 50 people and their vendor pets in the main city in TERA no problem, at a higher frame rate than SWTOR with 1 or 2 people in line of sight on the fleet. Both games at max settings. Bad engine and no optimization are not an excuse. I'd believe that when I see it with my own eyes. Also, 80 people in a tiny little instanced zone on a game with mspaint graphics isn't a basis for comparison. Edited April 8, 2012 by Holden_Dissent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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