Is dmg by it self so important?

[darth_billy]

The actual question is : Is dmg the wright incentive-goal?

:sy_darkside:Like many many others i ve used to pay really high attention on how much dmg i was doing and most of the time i am the top meelee dmg dealer(there are a few eminent players on the server who outshine me) and in the top4 dmg dealers on a wz.

 

:sy_darkside:A couple of weeks ago i realized that stressing out (only)about how much dmg i do is pointless(up to a point).

Everyday i have heated arguements with a guildmate(he plays an op operative) about who is a better dmg dealer and i used to get really pissed when this little troll was doing more doing than me, until i realized that waht matters the most is , who is the most efficient dmg dealer

by efficiency i mean dmg per kill

for a couple of weeks i ve been keeping track on this "variable" and what i realized is that marauder is BY FAR the most efficient killer while other dps specs farm dmg while you are destroying people(along with sin and jugg but they are still below as)

 

I.E. in a hutball match(ended quickly 6-1) our numbers aproximately were

ME: 160K dmg and 39 kills

HIM: 200kdmg and 10 kills

and that was pretty much the pattern on every wz and not just by compairing me and him but marauders(decent or above) in generall with other ranged dps classes my efficiency variable is always in favor of our class.

 

my point is not that sometimes dmg is unimportant, but i want to point out that the dominance of our class cannot be portraited properly on the wz boards so dont get frustrated (at least for the most of us. There are eminent marauders that dominate a wz in every possible way and i am really looking up to them ) the more you l2p the more clear your dominance will be, thats whats happens to me i am still learning but i am to the point that after 3 months in the server there many who dont wanna mess with me and others who try a lot to do so and fail

Edited March 26, 2012 by darth_billy

[Snakke]

The actual question is : Is dmg the wright incentive-goal?

:sy_darkside:Like many many others i ve used to pay really high attention on how much dmg i was doing and most of the time i am the top meelee dmg dealer(there are a few eminent players on the server who outshine me) and in the top4 dmg dealers on a wz.

 

:sy_darkside:A couple of weeks ago i realized that stressing out (only)about how much dmg i do is pointless(up to a point).

Everyday i have heated arguements with a guildmate(he plays an op operative) about who is a better dmg dealer and i used to get really pissed when this little troll was doing more doing than me, until i realized that waht matters the most is , who is the most efficient dmg dealer

by efficiency i mean dmg per kill

for a couple of weeks i ve been keeping track on this "variable" and what i realized is that marauder is BY FAR the most efficient killer while other dps specs farm dmg while you are destroying people(along with sin and jugg but they are still below as)

 

I.E. in a hutball match(ended quickly 6-1) our numbers aproximately were

ME: 160K dmg and 39 kills

HIM: 200kdmg and 10 kills

and that was pretty much the pattern on every wz and not just by compairing me and him but marauders(decent or above) in generall with other ranged dps classes my efficiency variable is always in favor of our class.

 

my point is not that sometimes dmg is unimportant, but i want to point out that the dominance of our class cannot be portraited properly on the wz boards so dont get frustrated (at least for the most of us. There are eminent marauders that dominate a wz in every possible way and i am really looking up to them ) the more you l2p the more clear your dominance will be, thats whats happens to me i am still learning but i am to point that after 3 months in the server there many who dont wanna mess with me and others who try a lot to do so and fail

 

Maybe you should stop learning to play for the moment, and learn how to spell and write proper English.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Snakke

[darth_billy]

Maybe you should stop learning to play for the moment, and learn how to spell and write proper English.

 

its kind of late here i am gonna take care of the mispellings asap, thanks for not saying someting offensive:p you must be new at the forums

[DarthPunitor]

Looks like a fail thread to justify your sub par playing in comparison to your guild mate. Getting a **** load of kills is relatively easily. Bounty Hunters get em easily with powerful aoe's, a lethality speccd operative can get them with a bunch of dots.

 

But, in my opinion (I haven't tested this theory), they do far less damage and are far less efficient. Again, getting a high amount of kills doesn't represent "skill." Perhaps you should judge by number of killing blows.

 

And for the record, I have an operative, merc, marauder, and a scoundrel.

[DarthPunitor]

its kind of late here i am gonna take care of the mispellings asap, thanks for not saying someting offensive:p you must be new at the forums

 

He actually joined in March 2011, you joined in December 2011. Although i didnt need to see the dates to know who's newer...

 

For the record, excessive bullet points as well as a bunch varying text colors doesn't get your point across any clearer.

[darth_billy]

Looks like a fail thread to justify your sub par playing in comparison to your guild mate. Getting a **** load of kills is relatively easily. Bounty Hunters get em easily with powerful aoe's, a lethality speccd operative can get them with a bunch of dots.

 

But, in my opinion (I haven't tested this theory), they do far less damage and are far less efficient. Again, getting a high amount of kills doesn't represent "skill." Perhaps you should judge by number of killing blows.

 

And for the record, I have an operative, merc, marauder, and a scoundrel.

 

plz dont take me wrong i dont wanna uderestimate dmg and i am not sub par playing i am doing quite well.

I can agree that getting a high amount of kills doesn't represent "skill." but dealing dmg randomly here and there is?

Also i am not talking about kills but dmg per kill .Being able to decimate opponets effectively is very important imo(especially on voidstar and aldeeran)

 

I just dont get why good marauders reroll to BH-Merch in order to get some more medals and dmg even though they know i can destroy them with the minimum effort.

 

my issues with my guild mate are unimportant ,i mentioned it order to give the story behind this...

 

thanks for your time

Edited March 27, 2012 by darth_billy

[glenbruton]

I look at a persons objective score combined with damage. If damage is high but objective is very low I know they just spammed aoe or completely ignored the objective most of the game. Super high damage AND objective score , well thats a MVP right there.

 

Low damage and low objective.... no excuse!

[CrazyAl]

im not about to read your whole post, all the colors and sizes and the center justification make me not care, but ....

 

 

your question seems to be, is damage in and of itself the goal in warzones ?

 

 

absolutely not

 

the goal is to win

 

 

and depending on what you are doing to help you team win your damage may fluctuate greatly

 

if you are assisting/runnin the ball then you probably wont end up with nearly as much damage as if you would if you are holding the middle

 

if you are in an extremely 1 sided game and you hold the middle youll hardly do any damage

 

 

is damage an indicator of player skill?

 

well that depends, it can be, if you have 2 marauders on the same team and you are both trying as hard as you can to do more damage than the other then the one with higher damage is most likely the better player

 

but, if you just spout out ... "i did 400k damage, im good" ... well that may not mean anything, it depends alot on the particulars in the game

 

 

imo, there really is no way to tell from the end scoreboard how good a marauder is ( you can get a decent idea of if they are good or garbage, but you cant really get any more specific than that just from the scoreboard)

[Omophorus]

Damage only matters if it helps your team complete an objective and/or win a warzone.

 

The only goal worth pursuing in Warzone PVP is victory, everything else, including scoreboard e-peen, is secondary to that goal.

 

Even if you don't need the wins for a daily/weekly, someone probably does. Additionally, if your side keeps losing, people tend to stop queueing, which makes PVP more frustrating.

 

Every time I see some derpy moron scooting around looking to inflate their damage or kill score, at the expense of objective play, I want to put a fist through my monitor. That goes double for Sentinels and Marauders. That goes triple for Sentinels/Marauders in Huttbawlz.

[DarthPunitor]

Damage only matters if it helps your team complete an objective and/or win a warzone.

 

The only goal worth pursuing in Warzone PVP is victory, everything else, including scoreboard e-peen, is secondary to that goal.

 

Even if you don't need the wins for a daily/weekly, someone probably does. Additionally, if your side keeps losing, people tend to stop queueing, which makes PVP more frustrating.

 

Every time I see some derpy moron scooting around looking to inflate their damage or kill score, at the expense of objective play, I want to put a fist through my monitor. That goes double for Sentinels and Marauders. That goes triple for Sentinels/Marauders in Huttbawlz.

 

Frankly, in the 1-49 bracket, i couldn't care less about winning. I rarely bother to get the dailies. Getting 4 medals is really the priority for maximizing commendations and valor, but I don't even care about that, since all my sub 50 toons have champion bags and are valor capped. what's more important in this bracket is just having fun. I personally am most satisfied when im at the top of the score board for medals and damage.

 

50 pvp is a completely different story. If you want to get geared, you need to win. bottom line there.

[DarthPunitor]

I look at a persons objective score combined with damage. If damage is high but objective is very low I know they just spammed aoe or completely ignored the objective most of the game. Super high damage AND objective score , well thats a MVP right there.

 

Low damage and low objective.... no excuse!

 

Objective score is completely meaningless. Ive capped several objectives, defended them al, got defender medals, scored in huttball, killed the ball carrier, and gotten **** objective scores.

 

Conversely, ive done absolutely nothing and still gotten a higher objective score than people capping/defending.

 

And mvp should always go to the healer.

[DarthPunitor]

plz dont take me wrong i dont wanna uderestimate dmg and i am not sub par playing i am doing quite well.

I can agree that getting a high amount of kills doesn't represent "skill." but dealing dmg randomly here and there is?

Also i am not talking about kills but dmg per kill .Being able to decimate opponets effectively is very important imo(especially on voidstar and aldeeran)

 

I just dont get why good marauders reroll to BH-Merch in order to get some more medals and dmg even though they know i can destroy them with the minimum effort.

 

my issues with my guild mate are unimportant ,i mentioned it order to give the story behind this...

 

thanks for your time

 

Again, sounds like you should be judging by killing blows in addition to damage score.

[Ridisi]

The actual question is : Is dmg the wright incentive-goal?

:sy_darkside:Like many many others i ve used to pay really high attention on how much dmg i was doing and most of the time i am the top meelee dmg dealer(there are a few eminent players on the server who outshine me) and in the top4 dmg dealers on a wz.

 

:sy_darkside:A couple of weeks ago i realized that stressing out (only)about how much dmg i do is pointless(up to a point).

Everyday i have heated arguements with a guildmate(he plays an op operative) about who is a better dmg dealer and i used to get really pissed when this little troll was doing more doing than me, until i realized that waht matters the most is , who is the most efficient dmg dealer

by efficiency i mean dmg per kill

for a couple of weeks i ve been keeping track on this "variable" and what i realized is that marauder is BY FAR the most efficient killer while other dps specs farm dmg while you are destroying people(along with sin and jugg but they are still below as)

 

I.E. in a hutball match(ended quickly 6-1) our numbers aproximately were

ME: 160K dmg and 39 kills

HIM: 200kdmg and 10 kills

and that was pretty much the pattern on every wz and not just by compairing me and him but marauders(decent or above) in generall with other ranged dps classes my efficiency variable is always in favor of our class.

 

my point is not that sometimes dmg is unimportant, but i want to point out that the dominance of our class cannot be portraited properly on the wz boards so dont get frustrated (at least for the most of us. There are eminent marauders that dominate a wz in every possible way and i am really looking up to them ) the more you l2p the more clear your dominance will be, thats whats happens to me i am still learning but i am to the point that after 3 months in the server there many who dont wanna mess with me and others who try a lot to do so and fail

 

I couldn't read hardly any of your post because of it's awful AWFUL formatting, but I can tell you this. What you're trying to talk about is effective damage verse fluff damage. Now, there are MANY MANY variables that go into all of that. First and foremost is the fact that a high damage almost always equates to a high healing factor on the enemy team.

 

That can cause quite a few things, especially in relation to your post. Because your friend was throwing out so much damage so fast, it could have been pressuring the enemy healers enough to allow YOU to do what you're supposed to and burst down some kills. Obviously just one scenario, and most probably the obvious one, but it proves a lot of points.

 

The point is though, is that yes there IS a point where fluff damage is useless, but that point isn't defined by kills or killing blows even.

[ArchTyrian]

160k damage on a mara? There is no excuse for that unless you are getting pummeled by a complete bm pre-made with a fresh 50 group and no healer... Besides that you should be getting 250-300k damage easily while doing objectives in all of the warzones if your not you are playing very poorly. If you get more you are probably neglecting objectives or in a pre made completely stomping the other team. my 2 cents

[AcaciaDragon]

So by your logic, when i do 200k damage in a losing warzone and my team mates cant do half of that, they were still doing something right. They were totally in the right when 3 ppl try to cap a node while 1 guy at 25% health left aoes them and breaks the cast....over and over again.

 

Damage may not be the only thing, but its very important, without good competent people in warzones doing the most damage they can, people will never kill other people who are gaurding the doors/nodes/ball carrier. People will never kill that blasted healer getting 700k healing a match.

Edited March 27, 2012 by AcaciaDragon

[glenbruton]

Objective score is completely meaningless. Ive capped several objectives, defended them al, got defender medals, scored in huttball, killed the ball carrier, and gotten **** objective scores.

 

Conversely, ive done absolutely nothing and still gotten a higher objective score than people capping/defending.

 

And mvp should always go to the healer.

 

I call bull. 9 times out of 10, the ones trying to win the hardest are getting the highest scores.

 

Of course MVP usually goes to healers but news flash. I play plenty of games that have no healers of note.

[Ridisi]

I call bull. 9 times out of 10, the ones trying to win the hardest are getting the highest scores.

 

Of course MVP usually goes to healers but news flash. I play plenty of games that have no healers of note.

 

Holding the ball, or even being near the ball on defence does you absolutely nothing point wise. The ONLY way to get defensive points in Huttball is to be on your goal line. I used to be incredibly confused as to why they did it, but then it clicked. You aren't defending the ball when its in the enemies hands moving around, so why would you get defensive points?

[DarthPunitor]

I call bull. 9 times out of 10, the ones trying to win the hardest are getting the highest scores.

 

Of course MVP usually goes to healers but news flash. I play plenty of games that have no healers of note.

 

Not bull, and if you have a video to show you getting high objective scores while doing substantive capping then feel free to provide it.

 

 

There are many ways to contribute to your team. At times in this video:

 

The player does not even follow through half of his kills, yet he gets top kills and top damage. You don't necessarily need to get tons of killing blows to be a good player or help out your team, doing high amounts of damage invariably incapicitates their ability to cap (and more often than not you will get a high amount of kills too, as was the case in this example). And yes, he got a lot of heals, but that still doesn't change the fact that he got a **** load of damage and prevented them from progressing (even if he didnt get a lot of killing blows).

 

Conversely, the case is the same with the operative example you provided. Doing high amounts of damage does hinder the effectiveness of an enemy team. Getting a high amount of killing blows has the same byproduct.

[DarthPunitor]

I call bull. 9 times out of 10, the ones trying to win the hardest are getting the highest scores.

 

Of course MVP usually goes to healers but news flash. I play plenty of games that have no healers of note.

 

Also, the player in the above link got by far the highest objective score. He did nothing for offense, perhaps he was awarded the objective score for all the damage he did on defense.

 

 

And Ridisi, the defender medals in huttball are awarded for killing the enemy ball carrier. You get more defender points when you kill them when they are close to your goal.

 

Ill have to see what my objective score is the next time i get the warden medal.

[Ridisi]

 

And Ridisi, the defender medals in huttball are awarded for killing the enemy ball carrier. You get more defender points when you kill them when they are close to your goal.

 

Ill have to see what my objective score is the next time i get the warden medal.

 

Horse ****, afk a WZ standing on the goal line and see what happens, screen shot it, and come back and talk to me.

[Aluvi]

The amount of damage done I see as a marauder varies widely per game, and is based on many things. This value has ranged anywhere from 150k to 650k+. It also depends on simply how long the game takes. If a huttball game is over in 6 minutes due to super fast scoring, obviously damage done totals will be less.

 

1: How strong is the other team?

-A very strong opposing team premade that actually kills me and the rest of my team is going to result in lower damage. This also typically mean that they are all (mostly) BM rank with mostly or all BM gear, which means I will not be hitting them as hard as someone in fresh 50 custom gear, resulting in lower damage.

 

2: What is the other teams composition?

-I have gone against teams that were literally 100% tanks and healers. The issue here is that to kill a group like this, you need to focus the healers. The problem is, the healers will have Guard on them as well as tanks taunting, which means you do substantially less damage. Add to these alreayd resilient specs full BM gear, and suddenly my damage output drops to next to none.

 

3: WHat is my teams composition/How strong are they?

-An extremely weak team will mean that I have no support and thus get focused down as I am the only real threat to the other team, and I end up dying a lot = low damage. No healers also sucks for me. Very high damage teammates might mean that my dots don't get to run their full length, and my dmg is not as efficient as it could be since I am annihilation. Remember, annihilation is good for long period sustained dps. not really burst.

 

4: How much do I need to focus specifically on objectives?

-Now I may take some flack for this statement, but I always try my best to help "win" the game, even though marauders are not the best class for capping in huttball, and our aoe is a bit weaker than most other classes (as annihilation) and spamming it to stop cappers/door bombs is not the best use of our time. IF my team is competent and can take care of the objectives (jugger/sorcs run the ball, aoe classes worry mainly about stopping them from taking towers/bombing doors), then I can do my job, which is to kill healers and high profile damage dealers that might kill our healers.

 

5: How much do I get focused?

-When you start to get a bit of a reputation in warzones, people start to focus you more because they know that you are dangerous. In fact, I have seen teams completely ignore objectives to simply kill myself or my healer or someone else that is equually good from my guild over and over and over. If this happens and I am being stunned/snarred/cced/focused down 24/7, my dps is going to kind of suck.

 

Lastly, it's just luck. You don't always know how geared someoen is that you are fighting. low/no expertise geared players with light armor I have hit for 6k mainhand / 800 offhand annihilates, and seen 2k dot ticks from deadly saber 3 stacks with cooldowns popped. On the other hand, well geared high expertise players, I have seen that same hit with all cooldowns popped only hit for 3k/400 or so.

 

Closing Notes:

 

While this is all very interesting, one thing I would like to note is that a full grp of premade tanks/healers (2 guild group premades got into the same warzone in huttball) can absolutely stomp a "dps" based group. It's been said that the greatest insult you can give your enemy is to ignore him. That is what this group did to us. I could smack on the ball carrier all day long and not be able to take them down due to their gear/heals/taunts/guards. Tanks guarding tanks is pretty rough, and add to that force shields and tons of heals.. good luck. My team and I got literally pushed, pulled, cced, snared , mezed, and generally shoved side while this group simply walked past us and completed the objectives. I ended up with 400k+ damage, but it didn't matter, we still lost 0-6. So, against that kind of a group, no damage doesnt matter. My damage done was equal to 4 of their players, and it still wasn't enough.

 

**One last thing to note to the original poster before I forget. Your conclusion of "I have better kills / damage ratio so I am better" is not really accurate. Consider, that if one player focuses on dps and burns them down/kills them, they will get more kills. However, if another player is focusing on killing healers, which can take a lot more dps due to them healing themselves/shields etc, then you could say that the 2nd player was doing abetter job, even though his kill to damage ratio was lower. Also consider, as someone else has already posted, that if you take any part in killing someone (any at all, just tickling them for 1 damage counts is my understanding) you get a kill point for it. So if you are aoeing people, or healing people with berserk/bleeds, the people that you heal, their kills count as yours, as well as the aoes on people that end up dying, those count as your kills too. When I run with my dedicated healer, he can sometimes get more "kills" than me because he is healing everyone as well as me.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Aluvi

[glenbruton]

voices of reason arent allowed **** ! j/k nice post.

[glenbruton]

Doing high amounts of damage does hinder the effectiveness of an enemy team. Getting a high amount of killing blows has the same byproduct.

 

if it helps you sleep at night

[DarthPunitor]

if it helps you sleep at night

 

I suppose youre advocating the opposite? Doing the opposite of damage, which is nothing at all? Okey Dokey

[DarthPunitor]

Horse ****, afk a WZ standing on the goal line and see what happens, screen shot it, and come back and talk to me.

 

I can guarantee you this is true, its practically common sense actually and has little to do with the actual discussion. Killing blows on the ball carrier invariably award defender medals. How this works in conjunction with your objective score has not been elucidated.

 

In alderaan, you can get a defender medal for sitting on your teams node the entire match. You get more defender points for killing blows at the node. Earlier today i observed this when i got a defender medal faster than a teammate who only defended one node and saw little action.