SWTOR Vs WoW: Blizzard gets it

[Lethality]

Im sorry but what exactly is your post supposed to mean, are you stating that features do equal content or that features dont equal content becuase if features do then swtor has more and if its actual playable content then no it doesnt at this time/

 

!= is "does not equal".

 

The issues mostly have to do not with bugs or a limited palette of content available at this time, but rather the basic features of an MMO that have come to be standard to the genre over the years. Quality of life type features that make MMOs more "MMO-ey" and enjoyable.

[Andryah]

An objective standard is beyond what any individual himself might have personally intended or thought.

 

Debating the word "objectivity" or "objective" on the internet is a personal tail chase at best. Doing so in a gaming forum just makes you spin even faster.

[Shingara]

!= is "does not equal".

 

The issues mostly have to do not with bugs or a limited palette of content available at this time, but rather the basic features of an MMO that have come to be standard to the genre over the years. Quality of life type features that make MMOs more "MMO-ey" and enjoyable.

 

I see this term 'standard' thrown about alot, what is this standard exactly in other games that are held within the core design of the game and not implimented by add ons ?

[Andryah]

the basic features of an MMO that have come to be standard to the genre over the years.

 

No such thing. There is no industry standard or specification of what must/must-not be included in an MMO.

 

There are a million subjective preferences on the part of players though.

 

In the end, the producer decides what they offer, and players decide to play or not play. Complaining and invoking non-existent "standards" is pointless really.

[indelible]

Guess you missed the post where I said I would like a little more sand in my themepark. Please feel free to accuse me of things that aren't true if it makes you feel better.

 

That is, yet again, not objectivity.

 

And the vast majority of what you said in that post has nothing to do with this topic. You being a veteran has nothing to do with this topic, you being shot at has nothing to do with this topic; it makes you no more or less qualified to speak on it. You act, however, like it does. I find that amusing. In this context the fact that you are a veteran that saw people die means next to nothing.

 

And yes, you do have the right to rebuttal, but unsurprisingly so do I. And we can both word those rebuttals in whatever way we want. To suggest that my post is any less valid because you have a right to disagree with it is ignorant at best. It's also a totally moot point that doesn't add or subtract anything form the discussion at hand. You may as well have inserted a random fact about fruit.

 

Your entire retort was specious, tbph.

 

At the end of the day, we can just agree to disagree. k?

 

Behind your well worded posts there is a stench of hypocrisy, and an amusing irony I don't think you're quite getting.

 

Aside from that, sure... I have no problem with agreeing to disagree.

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[Dawgtide]

At 68 years old, I can assure you that being objective about my entertainment value is a very important factor in my decision making process when it comes to gaming. If I wanted WoW features to be the norm for all games, then why bother playing anything else other than WoW?

 

Bioware doesn't have to include a damn thing in their video games from other games if they don't want to. Contrary to popular belief, Bioware isn't owned by Blizzard and they're quite capable of putting what they want into their video games. Money has absolutely nothing to do with it. Neither does time. Why? Because if the product is successful and exceeds projection forecasts, then it's a success. Both from a financial investment standpoint and an entertainment standpoint.

 

I think they've delivered and I'm pleased.

 

Dang straight. I haven't played WoW, but I have seen people say they have threat meters. Of all the things, that is a carebear item there. If someone (a nuker usually) cannot learn to control agro, they should get killed. This game doesn't need WoW, Lotro, EQ or anyone else's items. Bioware can build it as they please as long as they keep 500,000 subs to make a profit.

[Lethality]

I see this term 'standard' thrown about alot, what is this standard exactly in other games that are held within the core design of the game and not implimented by add ons ?

 

Standards, meaning things which have become a part of the expected base model of a product or service. Not "core" things even, but "features."

 

For example... at one point waayyy back, cars didn't have reclining seats. These days, it would be ludicrous for a car to be released without reclining seats. Why? Manufacturers saw consumer response to competing products and decided it was something worthwhile that their customers would also want.

 

Now, a "luxury" feature would be powered reclining seats... not every car is expected to have those.

 

So, one could argue that TOR is missing reclining seats, and give the high budget, high profile, world-wide popular IP, it probably should have even had powered reclining seats.

[ferroz]

Enjoy your pink butterfly combat animations and micro-transactions.

and combat log...

[Deewe]

Standards, meaning things which have become a part of the expected base model of a product or service. Not "core" things even, but "features."

 

For example... at one point waayyy back, cars didn't have reclining seats. These days, it would be ludicrous for a car to be released without reclining seats. Why? Manufacturers saw consumer response to competing products and decided it was something worthwhile that their customers would also want.

 

Now, a "luxury" feature would be powered reclining seats... not every car is expected to have those.

 

So, one could argue that TOR is missing reclining seats, and give the high budget, high profile, world-wide popular IP, it probably should have even had powered reclining seats.

He he good one on the analogy Lethality

[Distracted]

I hate to beat a dead horse too much,

 

Reported for animal cruelty.

[Andryah]

So, one could argue that TOR is missing reclining seats, and give the high budget, high profile, world-wide popular IP, it probably should have even had powered reclining seats.

 

Poor analogy.

 

And all MMOs are missing reclining seats. They are not standard. Then again, as I said, there is no such thing as "standard" in terms of MMO features (except inside your own mind).

Edited March 27, 2012 by Andryah

[Cepheid]

No such thing. There is no industry standard or specification of what must/must-not be included in an MMO.

 

There are a million subjective preferences on the part of players though.

 

In the end, the producer decides what they offer, and players decide to play or not play. Complaining and invoking non-existent "standards" is pointless really.

 

You're just willfully ignoring expectations and standards from MMOs that cost half of what it cost to make SWTOR. You can make the "everything is subjective" argument but the reality is there are expectations. Very real expectations from the collective consumer formulated by an ever evolving gaming industry. SWTOR is currently a single player game with multiplayer functions not a MMO.

 

The game is missing basic comprehensive UI features and a guild bank.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Cepheid

[Andryah]

You're just willfully ignoring expectations and standards for MMOs that cost half of what it cost to make SWTOR. You can make the "everything is subjective" argument but the reality is there are expectations. Very real expectations from the collective consumer formulated by an ever evolving gaming industry. SWTOR is currently a single player game with multiplayer functions not a MMO.

 

I am not willfully ignoring anything, except peoples imaginations as to what constitutes "standards" for an MMO.

 

The "standard" for games is whatever the game producer decides to design and code in. Now, that said, players do get to decide if they want to play or not, but they don't get to proclaim what the standard features for a game need to be. I know some people think they are this powerful, but in reality they are not. The game producer decides, NOT you.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Andryah

[Andryah]

The game is missing basic comprehensive UI features and a guild bank.

 

Both coming in the 1.2 patch.

 

Feel better now?

[sumfizz]

A wall of text whining for a dungeon finder.

[Lethality]

Poor analogy.

 

And all MMOs are missing reclining seats. They are not standard. Then again, as I said, there is no such thing as "standard" in terms of MMO features (except inside your own mind).

 

If you believe that, there's nothing more than can be said here.

 

MMO developers have the absolutely most detailed design document imaginable in WoW - being able to see how that game has developed, evolved and hell even being able to do their OWN user testing on the competition is a huge advantage. Yet, it doesn't seem to be done...

 

That doesn't mean they make a copy of a game, but truly get a chance to understand what is working and not, what is missing and not from a cross-section of their entire target market (key word being "entire" and part of that market is MMO gamers)

[Lethality]

Both coming in the 1.2 patch.

 

Feel better now?

 

Those are 1.0 features in today's competitive MMO market.

[Cepheid]

I am not willfully ignoring anything, except peoples imaginations as to what constitutes "standards" for an MMO.

 

The "standard" for games is whatever the game producer decides to design and code in. Now, that said, players do get to decide if they want to play or not, but they don't get to proclaim what the standard features for a game need to be. I know some people think they are this powerful, but in reality they are not. The game producer decides, NOT you.

 

Are familiar with the concept of a normal distribution? It's not really subjective at all. Yes, there is a standard for games put out these days. Interjection of personal control issues are not part of an actual argument for denying basic features. Most of us want the game to be successful and people blindly defending what Bioware has already admitted to making a mistake on reeks of fanaticism.

 

Those are 1.0 features in today's competitive MMO market.

 

 

^

Edited March 27, 2012 by Cepheid

[Andryah]

Those are 1.0 features in today's competitive MMO market.

 

You can say it, but that does not make it so. See, there is the fallacy, you think you speak for MMO game producers as to what is their feature standard. You don't.

[GalacticKegger]

So 14 months of patching, SWTOR has actually been "released" 3 months and say 6 days ago. Before you wig out, I said "released", and there has been 14 months of patching. So you are including BETA test patches? Which continue after the release? While also forgetting some of the bugs created by some of the patches themselves? Don't worry, WoW so totally did that too. And their release was horrendous in comparison with servers crashing for days at a time with lots of bugs, not just a scheduled maintenance, of which WoW still does last to my knowledge.

 

I'm quite sure that every game that comes out with their bugs and all, have been doing patches for as much time as well.

 

Don't wet my leg and tell me that it's raining. Your employee is that way --------------------->

That is correct. I was not including alpha or beta patches for either game - just the ones paying customers experienced after vanilla release.

[noodlehaus]

You can say it, but that does not make it so. See, there is the fallacy, you think you speak for MMO game producers as to what is their feature standard. You don't.

 

I think he speaks as an MMO player who's expectations have been set by already existing games, and most of all, as a paying customer.

[anaz]

Are familiar with the concept of a normal distribution? It's not really subjective at all. Yes, there is a standard for games put out these days. Interjection of personal control issues are not part of an actual argument for denying basic features. Most of us want the game to be successful and people blindly defending what Bioware has already admitted to making a mistake on reeks of fanaticism.

 

 

It's pretty standard for games these to forgo features and implement them later. In order to implement those many basic missing features they would have had to delay release till past Christmas and sacrifice profit. EA sacrifice profit? Not on your life.

 

 

 

 

Oh EA, how I hate you.

[RabidPopcorn]

You can say it, but that does not make it so. See, there is the fallacy, you think you speak for MMO game producers as to what is their feature standard. You don't.

 

Industry standards are not determined solely by the developers of SWTOR. Is that hard to comprehend?

[Veeam]

swtor wins because of the story telling and game play.

 

wow feels like a job.